Brahmins and non-brahmins: A Myth

It is very unfortunate that most of us have unwittingly fallen prey to the clever ploy of "Brahmin" and "Non-Brahmin" division created by a few individuals to further their political prosperity.

Even the "Varnasrama" says that there were 4 varunas namely : Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vysyas and Shudras. If that were the classification, why not Kshatriyas and non-Kshatriyas or Vysyas and non-vysyas or for that matter, Shudras and non-shudras? That is where the clever political ploy of "Justice Party" and other similar political outfits comes into picture.

Just like the Britishers, these desi neo-britishers decided that divide-and-rule is the best policy for personal survival and gains. Then they thought of so many options. Most of the options, in their calculation, would have resulted in antagonising majority of the people - Not only that - The strategists were mostly from upper castes excluding brahmins. Hence they did not dare to create a divide like upper castes and non-upper castes; nor did they create a divide like shudras and non-shudras; All would have resulted in antagonising majority of the society. But they needed a whipping boy- In politics, one has to always project some country or some group as the greatest enemy of the majority and declare that the particular party or leader is the only saviour against that evil! This practice is there for quite a long time in political history:

India always needs Pakistan to keep its people united
Congress & communists need communal parties , to prove their inevitability!
BJP needs Muslims!
Bush needs Iraq, Iran and Cuba!

But at the same time no party or leader would like to antagonise the majority of the people lest they should lose their vote banks!

All these calculations were going on! Bang came the fascist idea of dividing people based on "Brahmins" and others - Declare that Brahmins are only responsible for all evils of the society! Project them as the greatest enemy! Their percentage of population is less and hence there is no loss of vote bank! - Black out all the good deeds of the great leaders who happened to be Brahmins! Undermine the contributions of great tamil scholars like U.Ve.Sa and Poet Subramania Bharati - Instead project Periyar, Anna and other small poets! - Dont ever talk about great scientists like C V Raman, Chandrasekhar and mathematicians like Ramanujam - In stead say N S Krishnan was the man with great scientific thinking- Adopt the fascist philosophy of "we" and "Them" - In the recent history we can recall George Bush declaring " You are either with us or not" slogan before Iraq war.

In the "we-and-them" philosophy, if the "them" are not majority in numbers, one can always his way in a democratic set-up! That is what has been adopted and full used by Justice Party, D K , DMK and many off-springs of these outfits!

Now Let us think whether it is right for us to have fallen into this well-laid-out trap! Let us realize that there is no single cohesive entity called "non-Brahmins" - Let us not stereo-type the total society as non-brahmins!
We all know that there are various castes and sub-castes; customs and cultures; even different languages spoken by these people! Why to identify them enblock with the name "non-Brahmins" and antagonise everyone in the society? There are some Mudaliars, Pillais etc who are pure-vegetarians - There are Vaniya chettiars and acharys , porkollars etc - who wear the sacred thread ;
There are Telugu speaking naidus and reddiars who wear dhoti like panjakacham! - There are Vaishnava Vellalars ( Veera Vaishnavas and Veera Saivas)- who are more orthodox than any Brahmin! - Why we think that all of them are against us?

Even take the case of Vanniyars and Thevars- many of them treat the Dalits worse than a Brahmin is said to have treated them earlier! Brahmins are today a reformed lot! But not many of these people! I will narrate one incident of my college days (late seventies) in a town in Southern Tamil Nadu!

In our College hostel, only veg food used to be served - That too on plantain leaves! - The college belongs to a chettiar group! - I happened to be the student-in-charge for some period to run the mess in the hostel! I wanted to take some measures to reduce the food bill! After some study and analysis, I found the plantain leaves were working out very expensive! Hence I suggested we will invest some money for buying plates and these plates can be kept in the mess for serving food- I thought everyone will agree- But a big opposition came from the students belonging to Nadar and Naicker communities - They were in Big numbers- They threatened me with dire consequences if I inroduced plates- The reason? " Do you think we will use the same plates that would have been used by these dalit students some time or the other in rotation?"- They also added: "Only you people- Brahmins- have spoilt all the atmosphere by treating the dalits as your equals- Dont do all these things here" - I was shell-shocked and had to finally abandon the idea!

Hence let us stop using the division "Brahmins" and "Non-Brahmins" - There are very good people in all communities! There are right-thinking people, intellectuals, sympathisers of our plight across all the communities! Only a group who follow the self-interested MK and the like , do not want to see reason!

Hence let us stop using the divison "Non-Brahmins" - That refers to everyone other than brahmins- In stead we should use the term "Brahmin-haters" or if you can suggest some better term we can use it!

Comments are welcome!

Shankar

Shankar is very much right. We may call them 'anti-brahmins' if some one is hatred towards brahmins and spreading canards.

Good one. Yes, the divide and rule still exists, but among our own people.

But the term anti-brahmin will still breed hatred. We are Hindus. That's all. We all are equal.

Let us grow strong, physically and mentally so anyone who thinks of abusing will think twice or more and eventually stop it.

I salute u my nanbe. At least in this forum there is one manidan who is willing to strive for a unified tamil ulagham. nandrigal.

Come to Puthu Delhi I will give u ikkis(21) topon(tupaki) ki salami at India Gate.

Namma Tamil Ulagham eppoudume vazhga.

True Sir. Unity among Tamil Society. Well Said.

Some people in tamil brah community said that they need 15 percent reservation in Govt jobs. Our CM gave reservation to Christians but they came to CM and said that they don't need any of that as it would be crutch. It will be a road block in their development. Dont we think we should do some introspection.

R. Ramanujan said:

Tamil Brahmins have the Highest Divorce/Infidelity Rate in US. Its a Sad fact. Lets face it. After reading this We take pledge that we would always be with our manaivi for 7 janams and not 7 manaivi's in one janam.

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Or take pledge that we will not go to US henceforth?


Most things have more than one alternative.


Greetings

That was a master stroke from ur side ayya.

spice11 said:

Shankar is very much right. We may call them 'anti-brahmins' if some one is hatred towards brahmins and spreading canards.

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I have a doubt ,May be there can be some in this forum itself ,if we really are able to see thru......the veils and masks. judging by the anonymity a cyber forum gives to all of us, more protection behind facades than in real life- either way.

"May be there can be some in this forum itself" sir pls elaborate who are u referring by some?

SuryaKasyapa said:

I have a doubt ,May be there can be some in this forum itself ,if we really are able to see thru......the veils and masks. judging by the anonymity a cyber forum gives to all of us, more protection behind facades than in real life- either way.

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Sir,
With due respect to ur view I'm only being frank with what I say. What I have observed or what I have read or surfed. Its true being born and brought up in delhi I might not be that well versed with vedic verses But I have faced mostly isolation from my fellow brahmin community members. I'm here only to discuss them so that ppl in future treat everyone with respect.

Anyways I feel that last comment of urs was not in good spirit.


with regards
Ramanujan

Even I have been in the recieving end of deliberate ridicule by persons not belonging or folloing my community/ my beliefs and traditions. Myself and my similar friends like me were singled out just because we belong to that community- Brahmin.There was not other reasons , except that we generally do not retaliate, so exploiting our weakness.While on personal level in initial stages ,it had given lot of anguish and sorrow to me( not only to me,but many persons like me and may be many in this forum ). But after some years when we could understand the world, we just ignored it , as we were taught that many dogs bark at sun, but sun has to do its duty everyday without falling for the barks. But I get a different feeling when somebody claims himself brahmin/Tamil Brahmin, and tries to score point by professing Universal Brotherhood, as if none till now or now living know this or don,t want this. I can say with hundred percent confidence that none here is any bit less in loving others , all humanity. But what we are here is to dress up the wounds mutually, and not get salt rubbed on the wounds. My appeal is that just don't try to belittle the brahmins/Tamil Brahmins specially to get some applause from some direction.

I am told that to trap the wild elephants , men use tamed elephants. When I read some posts,I cannot but remember this.


Greetings

sure sir. I'm a proud vaishnavite and I do have plans to get myself enrolled in any vedic school in TN where they also teach sentamil. My views do reflect a lot of my personnel observation. I agree education is the main astra of our community. With education you do get a lot of power both economic and social. But as one says with gr8 power comes gr8 responsibility. One should never forget that all that any human soul requires is to be treated with dignity and self respect. If you can't treat a fellow human being with dignity and self respect that he deserves then whats is the use of vedic discourse. I've always been at the receiving end of most of my fellow brahmins. I've had some very bad experiences when I was in Srirangam. Sometimes I felt I should convert. But then some part of my mind reassured me that these are just a few brahmins. My amma regularly attends Vishnusahasranama every sat in Dwarka(new delhi). She tells me that majority of brahmins are good and there are also some good non brahmins. I come from delhi where this religion,caste,colour,nationality does not matter. I do get a cultural shock when I went to Srirangam. One of my frnds(iyer) there told me that I should always sport the namam but I told him that Enakku pazhakam Illa(I'm not used to it). He said Delhi mosam. But anyways sir I do appreciate ur clarification.

With regards

R. Ramanujan said:

.... One should never forget that all that any human soul requires is to be treated with dignity and self respect. If you can't treat a fellow human being with dignity and self respect that he deserves then whats is the use of vedic discourse.

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Dear Ramanujan, your namesake some 1000 years ago tried to do exactly this. It is said that in his old age he used to rest his hands on a Brahmin boy going to Kaveri and after taking bath and while returning will lean his hand on an NB Bhagavatha. The significance of this act will be evident only if you are aware of the concept of "madi" among Brahmins.

My hats off to you, you captured the essence of what Dalits yearn most and what EVR, for all his real or perceived shortcomings, awakened -- self respect. Why should an old man take his towel from his head and wrap it around his waist and cower down in front of anyone, let alone a young boy of higher caste? This is what they heard when MGR sang ஒன்று எங்கள் ஜாதி ஒன்று எங்கள் நீதி, not one நீதி for one Jati and another for another Jati -- all are equal, no மேலோர், no கீழோர்.

Dalit leaders like Ravikumar do criticize EVR, but it is not for his criticism of Brahminism and Brahminists, in that they share EVR's views, but on EVR not doing enough for the Dalit cause. I agree with Ravikumar, EVR for all his bold intellectual audacity, fell short with respect to Dalits.

Hope to hear more from you .....

Cheers!

Sir I appreciate ur comments. I must confess that I'm not that well versed with history as such. I'm still searching google for materials relating to vaishnavism, tamil culture, history,cholas,sangam era. But when u talk about leaders especially dalits u forgot to include a icon. A man who with his impeccable personality made impression on the Indian society at large. Thats is Mr. B.R. Ambedkar. Hope u know him. Self less efforts to ensure the well being of all the Indians. He never married. Towards the end of his life he embraced buddhism and vanquished from public life. At partition era when the country was being ripped apart by communal forces he rose up to the occassion. The kind of professionalism,secularism and integrity and sincerity that he exhibited in that period can't be matched by some people even now. We may belong to any community,caste,religion etc. But there are very few of us who remain disciplined. Very few who don't speak ill and don't think ill of others back doors. I always said the tamil soil produced gr8's like rehman,anna,ramanujam,vishy anand,kalam sahab and the list goes on. We should not only be good our fellow tamils but also to other ethnicities like marvaris,punjabis etc. coz if they face bad experience from TN then they will tell others that they are very bad. Our whole community will get bad name. As far as marriages is concerned u can't stop inter marriages in India. Choosing one's own partner is his/her personal choice. Everybody should respect that. isolating someone Just coz he/her has married outside his caste/religion is not in good spirit of our constitution. Its a democratic society. We should keep our ethnicity,language,religion in home when we are in the national forum. Only then we can do justice to the spirit of India and serve it to our best. Then is the cause of SL tamils. Majority of SL tamils are non brah's but isnt it true that they have been denied basic rights for a whopping 60 yrs. They have undergone every kind of torture(physical,mental,sexual). They are been targetted just coz they happen to be tamils. Whether it be moving tale of a tamil girl who wrote a letter in english after she grew up and learned eng abt the sexual harrasment to her by SL forces. They are living there for 2200 yrs. Arent they our blood brothers. Sure they are. We don't want to rip apart the social fabric of tamil society. I have plenty of examples where the non brah's have touched my heart by their gesture. But some ppl don't like what I write. Tamil is a global language now. France,canada,malaysia,singapore,america,uk,sl,u name it they are everywhere and contributing to society at large. I do admit that now a days it is difficult for a brahmin to get a govt job coz of reservations and temple issues are there. But we should face these problems without any malice towards other tamil brothers.

R.R:-(quote)Tamil Brahmins have the Highest Divorce/Infidelity Rate in US. Its a Sad fact. Lets face it. After reading this We take pledge that we would always be with our manaivi for 7 janams and not 7 manaivi's in one janam.

Where is the data to support this assertion?--What is the population of T.Bs in USA?--How many Divorce cases?--What is the data for infidelity among T.Bs in USA ?---I say the highest Infidelity among T.Bs is only in Tamil Nadu--village to villageand next is Puthu Delhi-I will be the most happiest person if my statement(if irresponsible) is proved as WRONG with Comparitive data!!!!

mam/sir I'm only quoting what I read out in net. Just search in google.

ramanujan

re your post #14:

that you are proud vaishnavite.. and yet i thought, somewhere else, you said that you were an atheist. can both situations coexist?

thanks...

R. Ramanujan said:

They are living there for 2200 yrs..

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Any proper source to prove this?

Am not contesting the other parts you have written on the Tamils in SL, just wanted to know your source from the historical pov.

reply

Well sir I'm posting a part of an article for u to see.
A potsherd inscription in Tamil Brahmi found some times back in an archaeological excavation by a German team at Tissamaharama in the Hambantota district of the Southern Province of Sri Lanka can be interpreted as meaning an equipment to measure, and thus evidences the presence of ordinary Tamil speaking people in the population of that region as early as at 2200 years before present, says archaeologist and epigraphist, Ponnampalam Ragupathy. The identification of the script of the legend as Tamil Brahmi and the decipherment getting the reading Thira’li Mu’ri in Tamil by veteran epigraphist Iravatham Mahadevan in an article last month in The Hindu, has stirred interest of the archaeological circles in the island to unearth this old find from obscurity to limelight.


I'm not sure whether the rules of forum permit me to post link here. If u want I will msg u URL.

Certainly not an atheist. I never claimed to one. U must have misquoted me some where. The fact is that I have been born and brought up in an aryan culture so never got a chance to experience the beauty of tamil kalacharam. And whenever I approached fellow brahmins for their kind advice on religious and cultural matters they brushed me aside. Thats why I have decided to help myself. Searching the web for articles on dravidian culture, rigveda, tamil history, etc. You see the problem is that ppl are very selfish and jealous. They climb up the ladder and kick it so that nobody else can come to their position. And sometimes the ladder is replaced by ppl also. But I'm determined to go to any length to ensure that I get the required knowledge on vaishnavism.

Thanks

with regards
Ramanujan.

R.R.:-(Quote)"mam/sir I'm only quoting what I read out in net. Just search in google. mam/sir I'm only quoting what I read out in net. Just search in google."(en-quote)

What should I search for in Google ?---"The Infidility" of Tamil Brahmins in USA?"--can I or you get the requisite information from Google?

sri.R.R., our own sisters,brothers,cousins(Tamil Brahmins) are only living in U.S.A-U.K.-Australia-Canada--almost from 1964-65--"President Johnson's Title VI amendment,
Tamil Brahmins started trickling into USA and after the Y2K boom around 1999,they started coming in large numbers.They are struggling hard to establish themselves in the midst of
many hardships without losing their Identity.Almost evry fortnight or once a month all T.Bs -Telugu Brahmins--Kannada Brahmins(Kannada Koota) meet in New jersy or New York
or Connecticut (Tri-State) and mainly trying to instill the Tamil Brahminical culture amongst our children(it is the main motivation)---As N.Y.C.Police Officer sri.Sriraman says "See that
Our Tamil Brahmin teen age boys and girls know each other very well-so that we can retain them within our Cantonment!!!!"--I see 100s of Tamil brahmin families in Tri-State.i do not
see any "Infidility" among Tamil Brahmins almost for the past 12 years.I know About 100 teen age boys and Girls (in Tri-State)-they do not roam around, as Chinese teenagers are "Freely" doing--as Sriraman says
"Namma Pasanga(he means both boys and girls) ellaam Bhayanthaankollikal"--as Dr.Sridharan,M.D. says "If they call you nerds" let them call.

In Tamil Nadu(including my village near Tirunelveli) all Veda Patasaala properties have been "eaten up and digested" by the unscrutrustees.Here Dr.Uma(T.B) Mysorekar(Kannada brahmin) with great difficulty runs a "Veda Paatasala"

reply

Somayaji.S said:

R.R.:-(Quote)"mam/sir I'm only quoting what I read out in net. Just search in google. mam/sir I'm only quoting what I read out in net. Just search in google."(en-quote)

What should I search for in Google ?---"The Infidility" of Tamil Brahmins in USA?"--can I or you get the requisite information from Google?

sri.R.R., our own sisters,brothers,cousins(Tamil Brahmins) are only living in U.S.A-U.K.-Australia-Canada--almost from 1964-65--"President Johnson's Title VI amendment,
Tamil Brahmins started trickling into USA and after the Y2K boom around 1999,they started coming in large numbers.They are struggling hard to establish themselves in the midst of
many hardships without losing their Identity.Almost evry fortnight or once a month all T.Bs -Telugu Brahmins--Kannada Brahmins(Kannada Koota) meet in New jersy or New York
or Connecticut (Tri-State) and mainly trying to instill the Tamil Brahminical culture amongst our children(it is the main motivation)---As N.Y.C.Police Officer sri.Sriraman says "See that
Our Tamil Brahmin teen age boys and girls know each other very well-so that we can retain them within our Cantonment!!!!"--I see 100s of Tamil brahmin families in Tri-State.i do not
see any "Infidility" among Tamil Brahmins almost for the past 12 years.I know About 100 teen age boys and Girls (in Tri-State)-they do not roam around, as Chinese teenagers are "Freely" doing--as Sriraman says
"Namma Pasanga(he means both boys and girls) ellaam Bhayanthaankollikal"--as Dr.Sridharan,M.D. says "If they call you nerds" let them call.

In Tamil Nadu(including my village near Tirunelveli) all Veda Patasaala properties have been "eaten up and digested" by the unscrutrustees.Here Dr.Uma(T.B) Mysorekar(Kannada brahmin) with great difficulty runs a "Veda Paatasala"

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forums.sulekha.com/.../tamil-brahmins-have-the-highest-divorce-infidelity-rate-in-us-852584.htm

poduma sir, venum na inno url kudukaren. I saw this while I was searching for materials on vaishnavism. I thought to bring it to the light of forum members.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...cation-employment-marriage-evolution-i-3.html

R. Ramanujan said:

Certainly not an atheist. I never claimed to one. U must have misquoted me some where. The fact is that I have been born and brought up in an aryan culture so never got a chance to experience the beauty of tamil kalacharam. And whenever I approached fellow brahmins for their kind advice on religious and cultural matters they brushed me aside. Thats why I have decided to help myself. Searching the web for articles on dravidian culture, rigveda, tamil history, etc. You see the problem is that ppl are very selfish and jealous. They climb up the ladder and kick it so that nobody else can come to their position. And sometimes the ladder is replaced by ppl also. But I'm determined to go to any length to ensure that I get the required knowledge on vaishnavism.

Thanks

with regards
Ramanujan.

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sorry ramanujan, my error.

i confused you with rajesh. the post i was referring to, is #8, in the thread 'on hop and sundakkais', 3rd para..

can i ask you a favour... when you reply, please refer to whom you are reply, and maybe with quotes. otherwise it may be confusing as to whom your post is addressed to. hope you don't mind.

thanks..