தமிழர்கள் எந்த அளவுக்கு யோக்கியஸ்தர்கள&#

[vgane]

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தமிழர்கள் எந்த அளவுக்கு யோக்கியஸ்தர்கள&#

A true reflection of today's world...It is an eye opener..The incidents quoted are a mirror of the anguish of a Tamil brethren!

I have not read Samas articles before..I went through the comments...Most are in line with his thinking and accept that something that needs to be done to stem the tide of negativism about the community!


????????? ???? ???????? ???????????????? - ?? ?????

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Such journalists are the need of the hour.

There is a blog site where Samas blogs
writersamas.blogspot.in

Young journalist, 35 years old. Born in Mannargudi to Chandrasekharan and Malarkodi. Did English Literature from Mannargudi Rajagopalaswamy Govt. Arts College. Worked in Dinamalar, Dinamani, Ananda Vikatan before joining the தி இந்து தமிழ் (Tamil Daily of The Hindu). Married with two children.

 

[vgane]

Such journalists are the need of the hour.

There is a blog site where Samas blogs
writersamas.blogspot.in

Young journalist, 35 years old. Born in Mannargudi to Chandrasekharan and Malarkodi. Did English Literature from Mannargudi Rajagopalaswamy Govt. Arts College. Worked in Dinamalar, Dinamani, Ananda Vikatan before joining the தி இந்து தமிழ் (Tamil Daily of The Hindu). Married with two children.

Really appreciate Samas...His frankness will earn brownie points..His non brahmanical background will help him connect with Tamil audience easier..

 

[Naina_Marbus]

There is an inherent hubris when the northie deals with southie - all are madrasees(?) is one example.

An interesting anecdote when myself and a TB friend ran into to a UPwallah whom I knew earlier. My friend introduced himself as Padmanabhan. Shortly after, a friend of the UPwallah walks in, and the first UPwallah introduces Padmanabhan to his friend as "Meet Mr. Venkatraman" !

 

[psnarasimhan]

We most of the tamilians are backless,spineless, and voiceless goats and sheeps. When Our own brotherens loot us we simply watch and never take up anything seriously. What happened to Autowallahs matter. We went back to square one. This is just a simple drop in the ocean. No one samas. All of us must turn ourselves as Samas, without which nothing will happen.

 

[krish44]

There is an inherent hubris when the northie deals with southie - all are madrasees(?) is one example.

An interesting anecdote when myself and a TB friend ran into to a UPwallah whom I knew earlier. My friend introduced himself as Padmanabhan. Shortly after, a friend of the UPwallah walks in, and the first UPwallah introduces Padmanabhan to his friend as "Meet Mr. Venkatraman" !

naina narbus ji

many tamil domestics give 'ramaswamy' as their name to avoid problems when they work in north indian homes . just a precaution to avoid police harassment in the event of problem . they take a train to south in such an event and vanish in times of trouble

 

[krish44]

A true reflection of today's world...It is an eye opener..The incidents quoted are a mirror of the anguish of a Tamil brethren!

I have not read Samas articles before..I went through the comments...Most are in line with his thinking and accept that something that needs to be done to stem the tide of negativism about the community!


????????? ???? ???????? ???????????????? - ?? ?????

this changes about perception of tamils is because of changed times different mix of tamil people

the earlier tamils in north were only mostly govt types and brahmins , some working in private joined in early fifties. they were honest due to compulsions of their job and were law abiding and not breaking any rules. other communities were negligible . there is a huge movement of others in last two decades .Now tamils number a few lakhs , many poor and lower middle class , some of whom are of dubious variety.besides the corrupt political class from south has also added to its bad image

the business class running food joints have over priced their food as the market is able to absorb it . their clients consist of many
affluents who do not mind spending and look for food in AC joints in connaught place . where there are very high rentals .
andhra food he is talking of might be from AP bhavan which is subsidised

in south ,there is heavy competition and one gets a lots of adulterated variety like mixing good and ration rice [ delhi is no better as far as adulteration goes,there is atta in dosa batter], and there is consumer resistance to anything expensive. also they are not big spenders as they believe in simple living and high savings.

since everyone has joined the race for quick money .some tamils cut corners and give the community a bad name . there are as many bad tamils as any other community . there is no need to unnecessarily lament about them.
.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

naina narbus ji

many tamil domestics give 'ramaswamy' as their name to avoid problems when they work in north indian homes . just a precaution to avoid police harassment in the event of problem . they take a train to south in such an event and vanish in times of trouble

Your statement lacks sensitivity and does injustice to the tamil domestics in Delhi. Many of them have tamil names like mayandithevar or nachimuthukounder back home, and when they tell their employers their correct names, the northies have difficulty understanding or comprehending such names, so the domestics make up some convenient familiar sounding names which is easy to understand by their employers. Not unlike how an Icelander with a name like Hróbjartur, taking up a job in USA, will convert it to Robert.

An interesting sidelight: The Eyjafjallajokull volcano in Iceland erupted in March 2010. On 14 April, the eruption entered an explosive phase bringing European air traffic to a standstill. No American reporter could pronounce the name of the volcano correctly. Icelanders found Americans’ mangling of the name endlessly amusing.The NewYork Times had an article http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/tracking-the-volcanic-ash-cloud/#t11h47m
telling fellow journalists: Iceland is laughing at us, ….at our inability to pronounce the name of their volcano, Eyjafjallajökull

Here is a Youtube video of how the name of the volcano is pronounced, by an Icelander Eyjafjallajökull - You're doing it wrong! - YouTube
An audio of the pronunciation:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Eyjafjallajökull-bjarmason.ogg

 

[vgane]

Mostly North Indians make fun of Madrasies pronunciation of words with TH, DH; CHA, CHHA; PA,PHA AND BA, BHA..

However fact of the matter is that they cannot pronounce words with Zh...Azhagiri becomes Alagiri or Azagiri or Azak Giri

 

[krish44]

Your statement lacks sensitivity and does injustice to the tamil domestics in Delhi. Many of them have tamil names like mayandithevar or nachimuthukounder back home, and when they tell their employers their correct names, the northies have difficulty understanding or comprehending such names, so the domestics make up some convenient familiar sounding names which is easy to understand by their employers. Not unlike how an Icelander with a name like Hróbjartur, taking up a job in USA, will convert it to Robert.

An interesting sidelight: The Eyjafjallajokull volcano in Iceland erupted in March 2010. On 14 April, the eruption entered an explosive phase bringing European air traffic to a standstill. No American reporter could pronounce the name of the volcano correctly. Icelanders found Americans’ mangling of the name endlessly amusing.The NewYork Times had an article http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/tracking-the-volcanic-ash-cloud/#t11h47m
telling fellow journalists: Iceland is laughing at us, ….at our inability to pronounce the name of their volcano, Eyjafjallajökull

Here is a Youtube video of how the name of the volcano is pronounced, by an Icelander Eyjafjallajökull - You're doing it wrong! - YouTube
An audio of the pronunciation:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Eyjafjallajökull-bjarmason.ogg

after some crime incidents involving domestics ,recently police verification has been made mandatory in delhi . all domestics have to produce ID cards -election, aadhar card or ration card with photo and police verifies them all . even entry into govt colonies is restricted .

adopting different name familiar to westerners is common among highly qualified tamils in US and australia . swamis becoms sam , madhuri becomes marjorie . some on conversion adopt name Paul for bala. these are real instances of name change of persons I know. I also know ramaswamis . there is no issue of sensitivity here .domestics are also called " mundu' in north .

There is no need as such to change names . They can assert their identity and be proud of it .there is a severe shortage of domestics . they can very well set terms and get them accepted .

 

[renuka]

I think its just a male problem....female names are almost the same all around India.

But out here in Msia my name is pronounced like this:

1) If its a Tamilian person they invariably pronounce Renuka as Renuga.

2)Some Chinese totally cant say my name and call me Lenuka.

3)Malays too find it hard to say my name and call me Ronika.


So I am used to being called Renuga,Lenuka and Ronika!LOL

 

[vgane]

I think its just a male problem....female names are almost the same all around India.

No Doctor...If your name is a pure Tamil name say Ezhilarasi or Semmozhi, other non Tamil folks find it difficult to pronounce as Zh (ழ)is formed by curling the tongue..It is a retroflex consonant..It is absent in Indo Aryan group of languages ..That's why Tamizh is pronounced/written as Tamil in English

Also there is no difference in Hindi between the ல்(l as in travel) & ள( hard l as in sample )

Other words that are tongue twisters are nj (ஞ்), nn ( ண்), ng ( ங்), r ( ர் ) & rx ( ற் ) as in error etc

 

[Naina_Marbus]

...
adopting different name familiar to westerners is common among highly qualified tamils in US and australia .
.

Looks like tunnel vision problem. Almost every ethnic/national groups did this.

[FONT=&quot]Ellis Island in New York was the gateway for millions of immigrants to the United States as the nation's busiest immigrant inspection station from 1892 until 1954. Arrivals were asked 29 questions including name, occupation, and the amount of money carried. If the name was unpronounceable, it was changed to an easier one.[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Today, over 100 million Americans - one third of the population - can trace their ancestry to the immigrants who first arrived in America at Ellis Island before dispersing to points all over the country. [/FONT]

 

[renuka]

.It is a retroflex consonant..It is absent in Indo Aryan group of languages .

Dear Sir,

The retroflex consonant ழ is also present in Sanskrit.

it is ळ .

I read before that is also present in some dialects of Punjabi.

Take a look at this:


http://www.jatland.com/home/Rajasthani_Language_Grammar

Use of retroflex consonants

The consonant ḷ(ळ) is frequently used in Rajasthani, which also occurs in vedic and some prakrits, is pronounced by placing the tongue on the top of the hard palate and flapping it forward.

 

[krish44]

I think its just a male problem....female names are almost the same all around India.

But out here in Msia my name is pronounced like this:

1) If its a Tamilian person they invariably pronounce Renuka as Renuga.

2)Some Chinese totally cant say my name and call me Lenuka.

3)Malays too find it hard to say my name and call me Ronika.


So I am used to being called Renuga,Lenuka and Ronika!LOL

somehow the male gender enters into it always .what is male about the name problem

 

[krish44]

Dear Sir,

The retroflex consonant ழ is also present in Sanskrit.

it is ळ .

I read before that is also present in some dialects of Punjabi.

Take a look at this:


Rajasthani Language Grammar - Jatland Wiki

Use of retroflex consonants

The consonant ḷ(ळ) is frequently used in Rajasthani, which also occurs in vedic and some prakrits, is pronounced by placing the tongue on the top of the hard palate and flapping it forward.

there should be a separate dictionary of such letters. these can be used as logos by the community for many purposes . there is something unique and distinctive about such letters .

 

[krish44]

Looks like tunnel vision problem. Almost every ethnic/national groups did this.

Ellis Island in New York was the gateway for millions of immigrants to the United States as the nation's busiest immigrant inspection station from 1892 until 1954. Arrivals were asked 29 questions including name, occupation, and the amount of money carried. If the name was unpronounceable, it was changed to an easier one. Today, over 100 million Americans - one third of the population - can trace their ancestry to the immigrants who first arrived in America at Ellis Island before dispersing to points all over the country.

why rationalise and say everyone does it . It is not sex . saying , even bees do it.
we have been given names by our parents and we are proud of it
we would not like it to be shortened or modified to suit some white mans tongue.
does any englishman change his name to suit indians when he is in india.
we have a slave mindset .
we are indians.

 

[Raji Ram]

........ The retroflex consonant ழ is also present in Sanskrit.

it is ळ .....

Dear Renu,

It is not 'zha' as in 'pazham' but 'La' as in 'paLLam'.

Check this out: How to pronounce ळ in Hindi

BTW, Americans use 'zha' more than any other citizens. In fact their country is Amezhica!! :lol:

 

[vgane]

I do not find any reason why we cannot shorten our names & suit the country..I know Chinese who are called as Amit or Anil or Deepak or Chetan in India

The advantage is that locals can identify with them better than with a unknown foreign language

Read this:

Huawei India execs take Indian names to be more culturally acceptable - Economic Times

 

[krish44]

I do not find any reason why we cannot shorten our names & suit the country..I know Chinese who are called as Amit or Anil or Deepak or Chetan in India

The advantage is that locals can identify with them better than with a unknown foreign language

Read this:

Huawei India execs take Indian names to be more culturally acceptable - Economic Times

they may not be chinese . there are many from northeast who are called chinkies in south india. after 1962,chinese are not that acceptable unless they are from south east asia or taiwan .
there is no love for chinese in india

 

[REVATHY VASAN]

I also agree there is nothing wrong in shorten our names especially in other countries. whn v were in Africa the ppl will my husband as Krish as his name is Krishnamurthy Srinivasan. It was very easy for them to call him like that and more over even in our houses somany ppl will shorten their names for easy calling as kittu, panchu etc

 

[vgane]

they may not be chinese . there are many from northeast who are called chinkies in south india. after 1962,chinese are not that acceptable unless they are from south east asia or taiwan .
there is no love for chinese in india

Krishji,

Not about North East...Huawei is a Chinese MNC specializing in Networking and telecom equipment..They have 140000 employees world wide..In India they have a R & D center in Banglore..I am referring to the Chinese guys in this Banglore unit...

 

[Naina_Marbus]

why rationalise and say everyone does it . It is not sex . saying , even bees do it.
we have been given names by our parents and we are proud of it
we would not like it to be shortened or modified to suit some white mans tongue.
does any englishman change his name to suit indians when he is in india.
we have a slave mindset .
we are indians.

If you care to go abroad with a long name ( given by your parents that you want to be supremely proud of) recorded in the passport, hardly anyone would care to ask you to shorten it. But your colleagues at the work place would like to have a nice abbreviated short name by which they can address you informally, rather than addressing you over and over again as " Hello, Mr, Santhanagopalakrishnan" and mangle the pronunciation to come out as "Hello, Mr. Satan's kin". Ms Revathy Vasan above had a point. And you seem to not recognize the fact that this happens even in your own native country! Why do people call Krishnaswamy as Kicha? Or Venkataraman as Venky? Balasubramanian as Balu? Parthasarthy as Paachaa? Krishnamurthy as Kittu?

I had a classmate in high school in Chennai with the name of Santhanagopalakrishnan whose 'friends' called him Santhu (சந்து) and one guy will ask "where is Santhu?" and the others will respond in chorus like this: "அவன் எந்த சந்து எந்த பொந்துலே இருக்கானோ ?"

Talking of name change, here is a real life event to explain why sometimes one needs to adapt to your environment. Afterall, didn't you switch to speaking in Hindi while at Delhi - instead of proudly continuing your mother tongue?

Long ago, I was a mentor at a foreign university for a girl who had just arrived from North India to do her graduate studies.

After initial orientation lectures and a week of attending regular classes, one evening she looked very depressed . After some hesitation, she said “ my classmates say that there is something funny with my name” . Her name was Kanya (not real) Dikshit. She was told that her last name rhymed with two ugly four-letter words in English. I explained to her the problem. She wanted to know if she could change it to avoid getting bullied. And it was decided that the best compromise was to change the last name to Dixit.

P.S. Of course I don't expect Krishji to understand any of this.