A BRAHMIN GIRL'S QUERY and RARE CHART as the ANSWER

[NVG Iyer77]

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On Face book, there is a brahmins only forum, where a young brahmin girl asks this question today.



I HAVE GIVEN THE ANSWER AND THE CHART. I am giving it here, for the reference of all our brahmin community members. This is a chart which covers IN DETAIL.

PLEASE NO OFFENCE MEANT TO OTHER COMMUNITY WHO MAY READ THIS... THIS IS PURELY ANCIENT SCRIPTURES' EXTRACTED PAGE WHICH IS SHARED HERE....PLEASE DO NOT POUNCE ... THIS IS FOR THOSE PRIVATE BRAHMIN MOMENTS, WITHIN OUR OWN SELVES.




Madh**** Venk****** IS THE LADY MEMBER..her name is fully not shown for privacy purpose. Here is her question.



Can a brahmin girl marry a hindu boy, non brahmin one? Need your views...




Madh *****, I am giving below a chart, rarely available.

As per our Vedas, when the Brahmin woman marries a non-brahmin man, since it is REVERSE order, what happens is SHE, HE and their CHILDREN all dip and become CHANDALA caste ( BURIAL GROUND WORKER caste ).


VISUALIZE within your MIND, a brahmin woman, her non-brahmin man and their children all FALLING DOWN A DEEP DARK PIT MANY THOUSANDS OF FEET BELOW GROUND LEVEL.

here is the chart. so as per this chart ( sourced from the rig veda, i guess ), today, in 2014, we are seeing many many layers touched already in the inter-caste marriages.




Anuloma means in the natural order (union between a elevated caste man and a subordinate class woman) and pratiloma is its reverse


Father + Mother Progeny = known as (Anuloma or Pratiloma type)


Brahman + Kshatriya =Anuloma type
Brahman + Vaishya = Ambashta (Anuloma)
Brahman + Shudra = Nishad (Parasava) (Anuloma)
Kshatriya + Brahman = Suta (Pratiloma)
Kshatriya + Vaishya = Anuloma
Kshatriya + Shudra = Ugra (Anuloma)
Vaishya + Brahman = Vaidehaka (Pratiloma)
Vaishyav Kshatriya = Magadha (Pratiloma)
Vaishya + Shudra = Karana (Anuloma)
Shudra + Brahman = Chandala (Pratiloma)
Shudra + Kshatriya = Ksattri (Pratiloma)
Shudra + Vaishya = Ayogava (Pratiloma)


PROGENY OF ARYAN CASTES WITH ANULOMA-PRATILOMA CASTES


Father + Mother = Progeny Known As

1. Brahman + Ugra = Avrita
2. Brahman + Ambashta = Dhigvana
3. Brahman + Nishada = Kukutaka
4. Shudra + Abhira = Abhira


PROGENY OF MIXED MARRIAGES BETWEEN ANULOMA AND PRATILOMA CASTES


Father + Mother = Progeny known as


1. Vaideha + Ayogava = Maitreyaka
2. Nishada + Ayogava = Margava (Das)/Kaivarta
3. Nishada + Vaideha = Karavara
4. Vaidehaka + Ambashta = Vena
5. Vaidehakav Karavara = Andhra
6. Vaidehaka + Nishada = Meda
7. Chandala + Vaideha = Pandusopaka
8. Nishada + Vaideha = Ahindaka
9. Chandala + Pukkassa = Sopaka
10. Chandala + Nishada = Antyavasin
11. Kshattari + Ugra = Swapaka

 

[sangom]

On Face book, there is a brahmins only forum, where a young brahmin girl asks this question today.



I HAVE GIVEN THE ANSWER AND THE CHART. I am giving it here, for the reference of all our brahmin community members. This is a chart which covers IN DETAIL.

PLEASE NO OFFENCE MEANT TO OTHER COMMUNITY WHO MAY READ THIS... THIS IS PURELY ANCIENT SCRIPTURES' EXTRACTED PAGE WHICH IS SHARED HERE....PLEASE DO NOT POUNCE ... THIS IS FOR THOSE PRIVATE BRAHMIN MOMENTS, WITHIN OUR OWN SELVES.




Madh**** Venk****** IS THE LADY MEMBER..her name is fully not shown for privacy purpose. Here is her question.



Can a brahmin girl marry a hindu boy, non brahmin one? Need your views...




Madh *****, I am giving below a chart, rarely available.

As per our Vedas, when the Brahmin woman marries a non-brahmin man, since it is REVERSE order, what happens is SHE, HE and their CHILDREN all dip and become CHANDALA caste ( BURIAL GROUND WORKER caste ).


VISUALIZE within your MIND, a brahmin woman, her non-brahmin man and their children all FALLING DOWN A DEEP DARK PIT MANY THOUSANDS OF FEET BELOW GROUND LEVEL.

here is the chart. so as per this chart ( sourced from the rig veda, i guess ), today, in 2014, we are seeing many many layers touched already in the inter-caste marriages.




Anuloma means in the natural order (union between a elevated caste man and a subordinate class woman) and pratiloma is its reverse


Father + Mother Progeny = known as (Anuloma or Pratiloma type)


Brahman + Kshatriya =Anuloma type
Brahman + Vaishya = Ambashta (Anuloma)
Brahman + Shudra = Nishad (Parasava) (Anuloma)
Kshatriya + Brahman = Suta (Pratiloma)
Kshatriya + Vaishya = Anuloma
Kshatriya + Shudra = Ugra (Anuloma)
Vaishya + Brahman = Vaidehaka (Pratiloma)
Vaishyav Kshatriya = Magadha (Pratiloma)
Vaishya + Shudra = Karana (Anuloma)
Shudra + Brahman = Chandala (Pratiloma)
Shudra + Kshatriya = Ksattri (Pratiloma)
Shudra + Vaishya = Ayogava (Pratiloma)


PROGENY OF ARYAN CASTES WITH ANULOMA-PRATILOMA CASTES


Father + Mother = Progeny Known As

1. Brahman + Ugra = Avrita
2. Brahman + Ambashta = Dhigvana
3. Brahman + Nishada = Kukutaka
4. Shudra + Abhira = Abhira


PROGENY OF MIXED MARRIAGES BETWEEN ANULOMA AND PRATILOMA CASTES


Father + Mother = Progeny known as


1. Vaideha + Ayogava = Maitreyaka
2. Nishada + Ayogava = Margava (Das)/Kaivarta
3. Nishada + Vaideha = Karavara
4. Vaidehaka + Ambashta = Vena
5. Vaidehakav Karavara = Andhra
6. Vaidehaka + Nishada = Meda
7. Chandala + Vaideha = Pandusopaka
8. Nishada + Vaideha = Ahindaka
9. Chandala + Pukkassa = Sopaka
10. Chandala + Nishada = Antyavasin
11. Kshattari + Ugra = Swapaka

Shri NVG Iyer,

I personally do not think that any bit of the details given in the OP above, has any relevance to India or the world today. This is so, because, as per our Constitution, we, the people of India, have decided to remove all caste-related ideas. It may be relevant to mention here that I am an old Tamil Brahmana, 74 years old, and, in my younger days I have seen and experienced the caste system at work in all its power and glory. I got married, to a Tamil Brahmin girl, belonging to the same sub-caste but different Gothra, because, inter-marriage between different brahmin sub-castes was as much anathema then, as probably inter-caste marriage looks to you — going by the OP and some other posts/threads by you in the past. But will you honestly insist today that a Vadama brahmin girl marrying a Chozhia/Mukkania/Ashtasahasram/Brahaccharanam boy is not a desirable action and so should be meticulously avoided?

Again, as an old man belonging to the previous (or second previous) generation, I agree that the brahmin parents will have insurmountable difficulties in living with their son/daughter who has married a non-brahmin. But this is an inevitable by-product of the decision of our son/daughter and it will be better for the brahmin parents to live separately - as if in vaanaprasttha mode - but without breaking relations with their offspring and his/her children. After all the problem is for the brahmin parents and since they are like the drying leaves of a tree, about to fall down and perish, it is better not to make a battle against the windmills as the old knight did!

The brahmins should have resisted tooth & nail, all legal modifications to the Hindu personal laws, even sacrificing their lives for the cause, if the caste-based prescriptions were so sacrosanct for them; but neither we, nor our elders (who were alive and able then) thought so. Hence, I feel it is better to 'go along with the tide' than to make a pathetic show as though something great has been lost.

The brahmin girl/boy marrying inter-caste will also have very many difficulties to overcome if she/he has to have a calm and quite orderly married life, but it is a challenge they have knowingly accepted and so, it is for her/him to face those problems successfully.

Incidentally, today in India a Chandaala boy/girl will find it very easy to get admission to professional courses, government jobs and quick promotions in service; so, where is the loss, after all, for a brahmin girl marrying a Shudra boy?

The prescriptions given by you are not from Vedas but from the Manu Smriti. Vedas by themselves do not talk about castes or inter-caste, prati-loma marriages, favourably or unfavourably, AFAIK.

 

[NVG Iyer77]

Constitution and Caste

Although I desist from commenting to prolong, but here let me clarify, the constitution of India clearly demarcates between RELIGION and the STATE.

In addition to reservations based on caste, The HERC ( Hindu Endowment...) would not have found a place otherwise...

Caste is a SOCIAL AND CULTURAL IDENTITY of HINDUS.

The constitution only PROHIBITS any activity that is violative of the ARTICLES AND FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS, in the name of anything.

In the name of anything could mean, in the name of caste, in the name of position, designation, power,...etc

MANY BRAHMINS GET SCARED SINCE THEY DO NOT KNOW THIS BASIC OUT-LINE OF THE CONSTITUTION. THE NON-BRAHMINS GET SURPRISED SEEING SUCH BRAHMINS AND NETT-NETT advantage is taken of.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Horrible effects of INTER CASTE AND INTER RELIGIOUS MARRIAGES, if you want to know, please speak to a 25 to 35 year old progeny of a inter caste or inter religious marriage. They will tell you how they grew up amidst DAILY FRICTION and now NON-ACCEPTANCE BY SOCIETY.

their voice shows that PAIN.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

vadamal and bruhacharanam - nothing wrong - bruhacharanam are older inhabitants here in the south and vadamal are later ones from north and west.

anyway that is a huge topic...let me not get into that here.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nett-Nett : ONE GOOD THING ABOUT TODAY'S YOUNGSTERS IS THAT THEY PREFER TO NOT RESORT TO COSTLY EXPERIMENTS IN A SHORT LIFE.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Shri NVG Iyer,

I personally do not think that any bit of the details given in the OP above, has any relevance to India or the world today. This is so, because, as per our Constitution, we, the people of India, have decided to remove all caste-related ideas. It may be relevant to mention here that I am an old Tamil Brahmana, 74 years old, and, in my younger days I have seen and experienced the caste system at work in all its power and glory. I got married, to a Tamil Brahmin girl, belonging to the same sub-caste but different Gothra, because, inter-marriage between different brahmin sub-castes was as much anathema then, as probably inter-caste marriage looks to you — going by the OP and some other posts/threads by you in the past. But will you honestly insist today that a Vadama brahmin girl marrying a Chozhia/Mukkania/Ashtasahasram/Brahaccharanam boy is not a desirable action and so should be meticulously avoided?

Again, as an old man belonging to the previous (or second previous) generation, I agree that the brahmin parents will have insurmountable difficulties in living with their son/daughter who has married a non-brahmin. But this is an inevitable by-product of the decision of our son/daughter and it will be better for the brahmin parents to live separately - as if in vaanaprasttha mode - but without breaking relations with their offspring and his/her children. After all the problem is for the brahmin parents and since they are like the drying leaves of a tree, about to fall down and perish, it is better not to make a battle against the windmills as the old knight did!

The brahmins should have resisted tooth & nail, all legal modifications to the Hindu personal laws, even sacrificing their lives for the cause, if the caste-based prescriptions were so sacrosanct for them; but neither we, nor our elders (who were alive and able then) thought so. Hence, I feel it is better to 'go along with the tide' than to make a pathetic show as though something great has been lost.

The brahmin girl/boy marrying inter-caste will also have very many difficulties to overcome if she/he has to have a calm and quite orderly married life, but it is a challenge they have knowingly accepted and so, it is for her/him to face those problems successfully.

Incidentally, today in India a Chandaala boy/girl will find it very easy to get admission to professional courses, government jobs and quick promotions in service; so, where is the loss, after all, for a brahmin girl marrying a Shudra boy?

The prescriptions given by you are not from Vedas but from the Manu Smriti. Vedas by themselves do not talk about castes or inter-caste, prati-loma marriages, favourably or unfavourably, AFAIK.

 

[biswa]

Please do not ascribe to the Vedas certain ideas which are not Vedic in origin. For your reference, I give below "The Laws of Manu". Please quote them accurately. There are further complications when taking into account second-generation mixed marriage products. And as a reality check: there is nobody​ of pure caste any more.

4. Brahmana, the Kshatriya, and the Vaisya castes (varna) are the twice-born ones, but the fourth, the Sudra, has one birth only; there is no fifth (caste).
5. In all castes (varna) those (children) only which are begotten in the direct order on wedded wives, equal (in caste and married as) virgins, are to be considered as belonging to the same caste (as their fathers)
6. Sons, begotten by twice-born man on wives of the next lower castes, they declare to be similar (to their fathers, but) blamed on account of the fault (inherent) in their mothers.
7. Such is the eternal law concerning (children) born of wives one degree lower (than their husbands); know (that) the following rule (is applicable) to those born of women two or three degrees lower.
8. From a Brahmana a with the daughter of a Vaisya is born (a son) called an Ambashtha, with the daughter of a sudra a Nishada, who is also called Parasava.
9. From a Kshatriya and the daughter of a Sudra springs a being, called Ugra, resembling both a Kshatriya and a Sudra, ferocious in his manners, and delighting in cruelty.
10. Children of a Brahmana by (women of) the three (lower) castes, of a Kshatriya by (wives of) the two (lower) castes, and of a Vaisya by (a wife of) the one caste (below him) are all six called base-born (apasada).
11. From a Kshatriya by the daughter of a Brahmana is born (a son called) according to his caste (gati) a Suta; from a Vaisya by females of the royal and the Brahmana (castes) spring a Magadha and a Vaideha.
12. From a Sudra are born an Ayogava, a Kshattri, and a Kandala, the lowest of men, by Vaisya, Kshatriya, and Brahmana) females, (sons who owe their origin to) a confusion of the castes.

 

[prasad1]

Hindus of all shades should burn Manu smriti as it runs against the constitution of India. There can be only one law in a country (agreed there are some exception in the law too). Manu smriti in not Vedas and should not be elevated to that level.

We have a brahmin friend, he has two sons. One had an arranged marriage (with Jadagam matching) in India with a brahmin girl of same sub caste. That DIL proved very difficult for my friend. She could not accommodate him even for few days. This friend is estranged with that son.
The second son married an African American against the wishes of father.
My friend had a strike and was in hospital, the first person to visit him was this AA-DIL. After he was discharged from Hospital she took him with her and nursed him. My friend can not stop praising her, no he worships her.

So NVG Iyerji, take that and drink it. Fortunately your brand of poison will not sell here. Even in this conservative group there are enough people to avoid your brand of poison.

 

[tbs]

hi

now nobody has pure brahmin blood...many things happened in the past....many conservative brahmins had SAMBHADHAM

WITH NAIR/NABOOTHIRI WIVES IN KERALA..the same many consevatives had MNY VEPPAATIS FROM OTHER CASTE IN TAMIL NADU...

MANY MIRASDAR CONSERVATIVE FROM TANJORE/KAVERY BELT HAD MANY WIVES WITHOUT COMMUNITY APPROVAL....so just

forget that WE WERE PURE VADAMAS FROM PAST.....udambale sutthamanalum ullatthaal naam ellorum karpu illadavargal thaan...

INGE YARUM KANNAGIYUM ILLE....ELLORUM MAADHAVI THAAN..KOVALANUM ONRUM SUTHHAMANAVANUM ALLA...

 

[NVG Iyer77]

ok sir, let it not sell...

_______________________________________________________________

Hindus of all shades should burn Manu smriti as it runs against the constitution of India. There can be only one law in a country (agreed there are some exception in the law too). Manu smriti in not Vedas and should not be elevated to that level.

We have a brahmin friend, he has two sons. One had an arranged marriage (with Jadagam matching) in India with a brahmin girl of same sub caste. That DIL proved very difficult for my friend. She could not accommodate him even for few days. This friend is estranged with that son.
The second son married an African American against the wishes of father.
My friend had a strike and was in hospital, the first person to visit him was this AA-DIL. After he was discharged from Hospital she took him with her and nursed him. My friend can not stop praising her, no he worships her.

So NVG Iyerji, take that and drink it. Fortunately your brand of poison will not sell here. Even in this conservative group there are enough people to avoid your brand of poison.

 

[NVG Iyer77]

i think too strong statement labelling all vadamas and conservatives...labelling ALL as NONE PURE...
maybe you should arrange for a sabha in kumbakonam and announce openly this statement...

even a sabha in chennai would do...

 

[renuka]

.

INGE YARUM KANNAGIYUM ILLE....ELLORUM MAADHAVI THAAN..KOVALANUM ONRUM SUTHHAMANAVANUM ALLA...

Dont be a Madhavi or a Kovalan or even a Kannagi..remember Kannagi set fire to a whole town and caused death of so many.

Be a Manimagalai the by product of a Kovalan and Madhavi who became a Buddhist Nun.

Kovalan is mire..Madhavi is a lotus and Manimegalai in the water droplet on the lotus leaf.

 

[JR]

Namaste NVG Iyer sir,

I think that marriage as an institution is to provide one with circumstances most suitable for advancement in his spiritual life. Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha are stated to be the 4 purusharthas and all are not of equal standing here. Dharma, Artha and Kama all weigh-in as factors only because they are needed for one to give up worldly enjoyment after some exposure to it and to realize moksha! Therefore when parents pass away due to old-age, due to man being en-gripped with desires, he needs a family, initially this is for kama, then when he gets children, his responsibilities increase, then his pursuit is towards artha while practicing dharma and when he is in his old age, his needs for artha and kama subside out of practicing them with his family the whole time before, and now he is a clean-state to pursue Moksha!

So given the importance of spirituality being the only goal of human existence, me, as a mother of a son (now aged 19) and a daughter (aged 10), would love for them to get a spiritual partner, belonging to any varna. However, I think that I will subject the prospective son-in-law or daughter-in-law to 'Pancha Samskara' if they are not Sri Vaishnavas and take them into the order. This makes them equal to Brahmin, in my opinion.

 

[NVG Iyer77]

King Krishnadevaraaya and JR

Around Five hundreds of years ago, this incident happened during the reign of King Krishnadevaraaya.
He was having his beard shaven by the barber who did it so well and soothingly that Krishnadevaraaya dozed off and felt so relaxed.
He opened his eyes and told the Barber

" I am very pleased. Ask me anything that you wish for. "

The barber immediately seized the oppurtunity and said

" Sir, Make me a Brahmin ".

To this, the king immediately said " OK, So be it. You be ready for the formalities ".
He called the AASTHAANA VIDWANS, PUNDITS and VEDIC SCHOLARS and told them

" This barber has to be made a brahmin. If it can be done, prepare the formalities for that. Each of you shall be rewarded very well "

Initially stunned, but out of greed, they all said it can be done and accepted.

OUR TENALI RAMA was absent then, but came to know of this incident in the evening.

The next day, when the King was on his early morning rounds on his horse, he saw our TENALI RAMA, dipping a BLACK COLOURED DOG in water and rubbing it's body VIGOROUSLY.

The King got confused. He said ' RAMA, what are you doing ? "

Our TENALI RAMA answered ' Sir, I am trying to make this FAIR SKINNED and so am bathing it repeatedly and rubbing it vigorously.

The King now got angry. He asked ' You Fool, is it possible to make a BLACK COLOURED DOG, A FAIR SKINNED DOG, no matter how much you bathe it and rub it ? ".

To this TENALI RAMA replied

" SIR, IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE A BARBER A BRAHMIN by POOJAS, THEN IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO make a BLACK COLOURED DOG, A FAIR SKINNED DOG by bathing it and rubbing it's skin".

IMMEDIATELY, THE KING REALIZED THE BLUNDER HE HAD COMMITTED, CALLED ALL THE VEDIC PRIESTS AND WARNED EACH OF THEM TO NOT MIS-LEAD HIM IN THE FUTURE AND THAT IF THEY DO SO, THE CONSEQUENCES WOULD BE SERIOUS.

HE THEN SUMMONED THE BARBER AND TOLD HIM THAT THE NEXT TIME HE RESORTED TO SUCH SERIOUS GIMMICKS, HE WOULD HAVE TO BE PUNISHED VERY HARSHLY.

HE THEN THANKED OUR TENALI RAMA AND SAID " Rama, thanks for opening my eyes at the right moment ".

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

So our JR came here and saw our Iyer and said " Iyer Sir, I have one thousand rupees. Ten currency notes of denomination One Hundred Rupees each.

I am going to exchange two such currency notes for two TEN RUPEE currency notes.

So, although I would now have EIGHT HUNDREDS AND TWENTY RUPEES, instead of the ORIGINAL ONE THOUSAND RUPEES, I have DECIDED FIRMLY to place these EIGHT HUNDREDS AND TWENTY RUPEES, within the GOLD COLOURED PURSE and tell everyone that I HAVE ONE THOUSAND RUPEES.

Yes Iyer Sir, I have decided to place it within the Gold Coloured Purse and announce that

1000 = 820

( Rupees One Thousand is equal to Rupees Eight hundreds and Twenty ).

So, our Iyer sir replied : OK JR, PLEASE DO AS YOU PLEASE....YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR FATE

Namaste NVG Iyer sir,

I think that marriage as an institution is to provide one with circumstances most suitable for advancement in his spiritual life. Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha are stated to be the 4 purusharthas and all are not of equal standing here. Dharma, Artha and Kama all weigh-in as factors only because they are needed for one to give up worldly enjoyment after some exposure to it and to realize moksha! Therefore when parents pass away due to old-age, due to man being en-gripped with desires, he needs a family, initially this is for kama, then when he gets children, his responsibilities increase, then his pursuit is towards artha while practicing dharma and when he is in his old age, his needs for artha and kama subside out of practicing them with his family the whole time before, and now he is a clean-state to pursue Moksha!

So given the importance of spirituality being the only goal of human existence, me, as a mother of a son (now aged 19) and a daughter (aged 10), would love for them to get a spiritual partner, belonging to any varna. However, I think that I will subject the prospective son-in-law or daughter-in-law to 'Pancha Samskara' if they are not Sri Vaishnavas and take them into the order. This makes them equal to Brahmin, in my opinion.

 

[NVG Iyer77]

King Krishnadevaraaya and JR

Around Five hundreds of years ago, this incident happened during the reign of King Krishnadevaraaya.
He was having his beard shaven by the barber who did it so well and soothingly that Krishnadevaraaya dozed off and felt so relaxed.
He opened his eyes and told the Barber

" I am very pleased. Ask me anything that you wish for. "

The barber immediately seized the oppurtunity and said

" Sir, Make me a Brahmin ".

To this, the king immediately said " OK, So be it. You be ready for the formalities ".
He called the AASTHAANA VIDWANS, PUNDITS and VEDIC SCHOLARS and told them

" This barber has to be made a brahmin. If it can be done, prepare the formalities for that. Each of you shall be rewarded very well "

Initially stunned, but out of greed, they all said it can be done and accepted.

OUR TENALI RAMA was absent then, but came to know of this incident in the evening.

The next day, when the King was on his early morning rounds on his horse, he saw our TENALI RAMA, dipping a BLACK COLOURED DOG in water and rubbing it's body VIGOROUSLY.

The King got confused. He said ' RAMA, what are you doing ? "

Our TENALI RAMA answered ' Sir, I am trying to make this FAIR SKINNED and so am bathing it repeatedly and rubbing it vigorously.

The King now got angry. He asked ' You Fool, is it possible to make a BLACK COLOURED DOG, A FAIR SKINNED DOG, no matter how much you bathe it and rub it ? ".

To this TENALI RAMA replied

" SIR, IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE A BARBER A BRAHMIN by POOJAS, THEN IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO make a BLACK COLOURED DOG, A FAIR SKINNED DOG by bathing it and rubbing it's skin".

IMMEDIATELY, THE KING REALIZED THE BLUNDER HE HAD COMMITTED, CALLED ALL THE VEDIC PRIESTS AND WARNED EACH OF THEM TO NOT MIS-LEAD HIM IN THE FUTURE AND THAT IF THEY DO SO, THE CONSEQUENCES WOULD BE SERIOUS.

HE THEN SUMMONED THE BARBER AND TOLD HIM THAT THE NEXT TIME HE RESORTED TO SUCH SERIOUS GIMMICKS, HE WOULD HAVE TO BE PUNISHED VERY HARSHLY.

HE THEN THANKED OUR TENALI RAMA AND SAID " Rama, thanks for opening my eyes at the right moment ".

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

So our JR came here and saw our Iyer and said " Iyer Sir, I have one thousand rupees. Ten currency notes of denomination One Hundred Rupees each.

I am going to exchange two such currency notes for two TEN RUPEE currency notes.

So, although I would now have EIGHT HUNDREDS AND TWENTY RUPEES, instead of the ORIGINAL ONE THOUSAND RUPEES, I have DECIDED FIRMLY to place these EIGHT HUNDREDS AND TWENTY RUPEES, within the GOLD COLOURED PURSE and tell everyone that I HAVE ONE THOUSAND RUPEES.

Yes Iyer Sir, I have decided to place it within the Gold Coloured Purse and announce that

1000 = 820

( Rupees One Thousand is equal to Rupees Eight hundreds and Twenty ).

Our Iyer Sir asked ' HOW ? "

So JR replied " Since I have placed Rs.820/- within the gold coloured purse, it is now equal to Rs.1000/-, in my opinion.

So, our Iyer sir replied : OK JR, PLEASE DO AS YOU PLEASE....YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR FATE, THEIR FATE.


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Namaste NVG Iyer sir,

I think that marriage as an institution is to provide one with circumstances most suitable for advancement in his spiritual life. Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha are stated to be the 4 purusharthas and all are not of equal standing here. Dharma, Artha and Kama all weigh-in as factors only because they are needed for one to give up worldly enjoyment after some exposure to it and to realize moksha! Therefore when parents pass away due to old-age, due to man being en-gripped with desires, he needs a family, initially this is for kama, then when he gets children, his responsibilities increase, then his pursuit is towards artha while practicing dharma and when he is in his old age, his needs for artha and kama subside out of practicing them with his family the whole time before, and now he is a clean-state to pursue Moksha!

So given the importance of spirituality being the only goal of human existence, me, as a mother of a son (now aged 19) and a daughter (aged 10), would love for them to get a spiritual partner, belonging to any varna. However, I think that I will subject the prospective son-in-law or daughter-in-law to 'Pancha Samskara' if they are not Sri Vaishnavas and take them into the order. This makes them equal to Brahmin, in my opinion.

 

[biswa]

What if the prospective in-law is a Christian and does not intend to become Iyengar? A forum member already has experience with this and she claims that her marriage is the best ever possible.

Unfortunately Manu Smriti does not address this varna sankara case. Brahmin + Christian = ?????

Plus there are complications from sect and sub-sect both on Brahmin side and on Christian side.

While we are on the subject, what is the hybrid of Tamil + Bengali or Punjabi? Is the result Aryan or non-Aryan?

 

[NVG Iyer77]

Non-Vedic is the foreigner and called MLECCHA. So it is one level below the lowest ( Chandala ). The worst separations have happened in inter-religious marriages. One forum member saying that it is the best and that ONE FORUM MEMBER"s experience ( Assuming it to be true ), cannot speak for the Lakhs and Millions of people across the Globe. A thread entering the eye of a needle in a hay-stack does not mean all needles in the universe have an easy path set out for the thread. The law of Nature is best adhered to and not violated.

 

[renuka]

What if the prospective in-law is a Christian and does not intend to become Iyengar? A forum member already has experience with this and she claims that her marriage is the best ever possible.

Unfortunately Manu Smriti does not address this varna sankara case. Brahmin + Christian = ?????

Plus there are complications from sect and sub-sect both on Brahmin side and on Christian side.

While we are on the subject, what is the hybrid of Tamil + Bengali or Punjabi? Is the result Aryan or non-Aryan?

Tamil and Punjabi will be Tanjabi

Bengali and Punjabi ..will be Bongjabi


Tamil and Bengali ..will be Tambong

 

[JR]

Thanks for the funny story, NVG Iyer ji!

I am highly skeptical of my children being able to find good Brahmin/Vaishnava matches, living out here in the West. My son likes a Jain girl from a good family and has been good friends with her for a long time, I do not know if they 'love' each other, they are just kids who are studying, but my dream and hope is that my son finds someone like her - it makes it all the more convenient Jains are 1-step ahead of Brahmins in that they are total 'vegans'! (My daughter is too little to like anyone ).

But coming to your story, I find it little insulting to equate those of 4th varna (or all NBs) to something less-than-human. If we look at our own history, we find sant Jnanadev and his brother and sister orphaned by some so-called 'pious Brahmins'. First these Brahmins tell Jnanadev's parents that their children are born of a 'sanyasi' and as such unfit for being taken into the fold of Brahminhood. Upon their insistence, the Brahmins demand the parents give up their life in the river to redeem their children of the stigma, which they do, by drowning in the river. But these same Brahmins resist to take these poor children into their fold even after that! Which is when Jnanadev puts his hand on the head of a buffalo and makes it sing the vedas!

Now what will you call the type of Brahmanas as the above! to me, they are lesser than a dog.

And also, we find in Sri Vaishnava sampradaya, Thiruppanazhwar and Nammazhwar belonging to the 4th varna! They are both acclaimed till today for their devotion, for the entire 'Iyengar' samooham, Nammazhwar the foremost Azhwar, is golden! Even Sri Ramanujacharyar gave 'pancha samskara' to a deserving Chandala woman and another archer of the 4th Varna and took them under his fold. There have been lots of Jains who got converted to Vaishnavism in olden days too!

So irrespective of varna, I hope my children get good, spiritual and gentle-hearted partners! I hope they do not get those who would not wish to convert to Hinduism for their partners! This would make life easy for us, the parents! Also, removing the varna criterion, one additional hope would be that they do not find someone who does 'menial labor' - not that, it is degrading (actually I am being honest to say this) however somewhere in the heart as a parent, having taken so much effort to 'push' children into intellectual and well-earning professions, it is tough to see them marry, say a 'Barbar' as in your example! But that being said, it is not correct to ask for a doctor, or a high-paid Engineer alone - any job of some dignity in the society would do. Reminds me of the movie, "Meet the Fockers" - even in America, the parents of the ultra-rich bride frown at the groom being a 'nurse' . I wouldn't frown at a nurse, but I would also frown at a 'cleaner', for instance. So hope those things wouldn't happen to me!

 

[biswa]

Ummm, Prathiloma or Anulom? That is important, I think ...

 

[renuka]

Ummm, Prathiloma or Anulom? That is important, I think ...

you see life starts off as Pratiloma.


Let me explain..Anuloma means that which is with the flow.

Pratiloma is that which goes against the flow.

Now if you watch video of fertilization...The Male Gamete swims up stream to the Female Gamete. It swims against the flow..so everyone is a Pratiloma yaar!LOL

Imagine if the male gamete followed Anuloma method of swimming? No humans dude!LOL

 

[biswa]

Moderator, I object!

First of all above post implies that male is lower than female.

Second, that pic needs to be censored!

 

[renuka]

Moderator, I object!

First of all above post implies that male is lower than female.

Second, that pic needs to be censored!

Ha Ha Ha..


The pic is raw huh? Totally uncensored!

 

[vgane]

Dear Shri NVG Iyer,

I have been voicing my anguish about this in the various threads!

I have seen close relations falling in the pit of Inter caste marriage!

For girls it is a really pathetic situation!

Neither are they respected by their in laws nor accepted by their own siblings

None of the MSM cover these type of stories...

The girls are unable to come out of the deep pit

They live secluded lives..In case they have some job, they somehow survive..Otherwise they wallow in filth & squalor!

The Tambrahm community is the most affected among the lots with over 30 to 40% going for this in the last decade or so!

The community is going down the drain! I think we are not even at the replacement level of fertility which is 2.1 per couple..For Tambrahm it may come to just about 1...So we are going down by 50% unless the community takes some drastic action to stem the rot!

The 21 century will signal the epitaph of the community if this rate of IC/IR does not go down!

From fighting for education & employment, the community has gone berserk!

Unless there is self realization the dooms day is not far off!

 

[JR]

Hello NVG Iyer ji, Biswa ji,

My post #16 was under moderation, now it got posted. What are your views on the same especially since NVG Iyer ji posted a funny tale about Tenali Rama giving bath to a black dog to make it white to show varnas cannot be changed?

Thanks.

 

[biswa]

JR ji,

Thanks for asking my opinion. In my view, all these labels are man-made and are a perennial source of discrimination, whether in the segregation present in the Pauranic age or in the current Kali Yuga with its caste and race based reservations.

The only eternal / natural truth is what is depicted in the (raw) pic posted by Renukaji. At least that phenomenon is not man-made.

 

[prasad1]

JR ji,

The only eternal / natural truth is what is depicted in the (raw) pic posted by Renukaji. At least that phenomenon is not man-made.

I agree with your post, but have a question, What happens if it was in a petri dish and not in the raw form.
To me all discrimination is man made, and wrong.

 

[renuka]

I agree with your post, but have a question, What happens if it was in a petri dish and not in the raw form.
To me all discrimination is man made, and wrong.

Even then the ova stays put..its the male gamete that needs to be injected into the Ova.

Even in cloning..DNA has to be injected into a enucleated Ova.

Well in this cases..I wonder what is the gradient that is employed when the injection is done...may be its linear or a slight gradient?