Allowing non-hindus entry into temples

[kashyap]

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You folks are all aware of this.
Many non-hindus(by birth) are not allowed to enter important temples like guruvayoor and puri jagannath etc. In my opinion it is a wrong practice. There are people from other religions who are more devoted to hindu gods than born-hindus.
One is yesudas who has sung wonderful songs about lord krishna . It is sad that he is not allowed to enter guruvayoor temple.
I heard that in tirupati many non hindus have beeen allowed inside. All they need to do is give in writing that they believe in the residing deity. Even muslims like jaffer sharief and farooq abdullah have visited and made kanikkai in the hundi.

I dont see anything wrong in yesudas visiting the guruvayoor temple. The rules in the temple are not right in this respect because according to them a person like karu or veera can visit the temple but not yesudas. It is ridiculous.
Your thoughts...

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Kashyap Ji,

I fully agree with your views. Ours is not an organized religion in the sense of other religions, but is rather an 'ever living Truth'. This is why, any one who wants to worship should be able to worship. If they do this out of some other reason, I would suspect that his/her Karma will take care of that.

Most importantly, we should also start allowing some of our own brothers and sisters to worship like rest of us can!

Pranams,
KRS

 

[lotus_quartz]

Breeze of medernism !

We have come a long way since the theory by (Prof.) Manu which asked the devout to pour molten lead into the ears of shudras if they happen to hear the verses of holy shlokas etc.

In spite of many regressive features, Hinduism has survived till date only due to large number of liberals who have been practicing peaceful coexistence but were/are shy of coming to the lime light which has been hogged by brahmins in the past and bjp/rss/shiv sena guys in present day India.

Instead of adopting a piecemeal approach to revival in Hinduism, we might as well as go in for a drastic revision/overhaul on what the world understands by Hinduism. Some of my proposals are:

1. Rewrite holy texts by a body of enlightened Hindus jettisoning
varnashrama system and anti-shudra bias;

2. Amplify the good things in Hinduism like our achievments in the past in
sciences, astronomy, medicine temple architecture, irrigation
technologies, music etc.;

3. Amplify the philosophy of Gnana, Bhakti, Yoga, Adwaita, Peace, Karma,
Ascetism, Guru-Shishya parampara etc. ;

3A. Amplify those features in Hinduism which promote democracy, cult of scientific temper, negotiation through dialogue, mutual agreement and adjustment, valour and courage, justice (Nyaya) , duty (Dharma) etc.

4. Make it easier for non-Hindus to not only enter Hindu holy places,
temples etc but also to convert to Hinduism by a simple inexpensive
initiation rite etc. etc.

5. Treat all Hindus as equals without any favour or prejudice, make caste system irrelevant so that one or two generations down the line, no one will recollect their original caste !

Any takers ?

 

[kashyap]

????????

All points sound interesting. But reg pt 1 and 5 .
I am not sure if the texts have to be rewirtten or interpreted correctly.

Anyway assuming they have to be rewritten, I am curious to know what it will accomplish.

It is the govt -- controlled by casteist politicains like karu, veera, ramadasu, lalu, paswan etc who perpertuate caste . Even if we rewrite whatever religious text, these people will not let caste vanish.

For instance, today if I stop calling myself a brahmin -In fact I never called myself a brahmin. Only in this site I am calling myself as a brahmin.
In real life, It is only the govt and people (calling themselves anything but brahmin ) who call me as a brahmin. In fact the reason for me getting into this site in the first place is only because I face bias from the govt and people calling themselves anything but brahmin and I want to help people facing similar bias.--will the govt consider me equal to an OBC or SC or ST for the purposes of employment or education?

(If they use false history to justify their bias against me -- then that way any illegal act in the world can be justified. Tomorrow I can rob someone in the road and say I did it because his great grandfather robbed my great grandfather and cook up some evidence for that just like KKK clan is doing.)

Is the govt and people (calling themselves anything other than brahmin) willing to stop calling me as a brahmin?????

Also will the people enjoying reservation benefits stop calling themselves as SC, ST, OBC etc ?


????????????

 

[GGR]

Lotus_quartz and Kashyap, not sure how old you two are, but from your
comments, seems like you have not seen much of life or the value of life and
the value of identity, in this Modern world.

Kashyap, there needs to be modernisation in certain aspect, but not in all
aspects of our religion. Yes there need to be a stop on blind faith and it is
time for us all to know the true purpose of life. (I am not going to tell you.
Read Bhagavath Geetha and you will know.)

Your topic about letting non-hindus enter our temples is valid, but you forget
that rules that certain temples abide by. Even though our scriptures might
tell us how to live our life, it does not however tell how the governing bodies
of the temple should function. What you are asking for is to dismantle years
of rules and regulation has has been there for centuries.

Have you ever gone to a Mosque or a Church ? If not, you have no right in
bringing up this subject. Forget non-hindu temple or church, have you gone
to a Sikh or Jain temple? If the answer is NO, then dont talk, you have not
earned the knowledge to talk.

I grew up in a Christian School, went to Church some times and did read
the Old testiment. I had a very close muslim friend while in school and he
would take me to his mosque off and on, when his father was not around.
I have read parts of the Quron (By the way if you did not know, it is the only
holy scripture which has not been altered since it was written. Cant say that
about the Bible or our Bhagavat Geetha). When I first came to US, I would
not only go to Church on a weekly basis, but would also go the Hindu temple
and pray. In India, when I needed peace and quiet, I would go to the Jain
temple and meditate, it was easy as there was one Jain temple on the way
to my Collage. Every time my friends and I went trekking and if we passed
a Tibetan settlement, we would go and take rest at their shrine and
meditate. (Tibetans follow Bhudhisum).

Do you know about Mormons? They are a sect of Christianity. As
a non-Christian, I am allowed only to certain parts of their temple. As
a non-mormon, even christians are not allowed in their entire shrine. Do you also
know that Mormons do not marry other sects of Christians, forget non-christians.

I have given up on any meaningful rebuttal to the points made by
Lotus_quartz. At best his/her comments are in the same line as the
Maruti Charector.

I am a modern man and an opened minded person, but having seen what
the western folk think about us or how they portray us in the world or in
their country, I will support the Temple's decision if they disallow them into
the temple. Of course, if an Indian does marry a westerner, they do have
the right as spouse to a Hindu can come into the temple.

You know why Westerners are so jealous of India? We have a huge history
and culture. We have grown over many Centuries. We have so many different
languages indigenous to India alone, no other country can claim the same.

By the way if you guys did not know the Pledge of Nation, here it is to the
best of my knowledge.

India is my country and all Indians are my brothers and sisters.
I love my country and I am proud of its rich and varied heritage.
I shall always strive to be worthy of it.
I shall give respect to my parents, teachers and elders and treat everyone with courtesy.
To my country and my people, I pledge my devotion.
In their well being and prosperity alone lies my happiness.
Jai Hind!

-GGR
​

 

[NARAS]

sirs- when there are restrictions on even hindus and also bramins in entry into orthodox temples, i cannot understand how non hindus can claim temple entry as a matter of right. if all and sundry are allowed into orthodox temples, temples will forfeit their orthodoxy and become tourist spots like casinos.

2. the very meaning of the word 'holy' denotes sacredness. what sacredness and holiness will remain in these books if they are allowed to be altered?

3. quran is not only the only holy scripture which has remained 'unaltered' but also the most controversial book ever in the history of mankind.

 

[lotus_quartz]

It is interesting to note that some people think that views and opinions can be evaluated based on age and background of the person who expresses them instead of evaluation based on merit.
Again, as I posted previously, I respect your right to hold such opinion.

Regarding temple rules etc..Who made these rules ? Do you think their action was based on justice, fairness and equality before the eyes of God or based on their caste based considerations ? Do these people enjoy a perpetual copyright on Hinduism ?

Are we comparing ourselves with other religions like Islam and Christianity etc. which came into being much later but spread fast into traditional Hindu land of India ? Have you ever tried to analyse why ? Simply because they could offer greater respect and social status to down-trodden Hindus once they converted. If you are really convinced about the superiority of Hinduism (I am quite convinced, for sure), why not throw open the doors and windows ? Hinduism bereft of the ills will attract followers like bees follow honey/nectar.

Regarding your tendency of lotting me and maruti in one group and avoiding rebuttals etc. Interesting ! Hope you will find time to go through all my previous posts before making a sweeping statement. I expected better prowess from you. Hope you are not running out of steam.

Anyway, tussi great ho ji !

Lotus_quartz and Kashyap, not sure how old you two are, but from your
comments, seems like you have not seen much of life or the value of life and
the value of identity, in this Modern world.
...

Your topic about letting non-hindus enter our temples is valid, but you forget
that rules that certain temples abide by. Even though our scriptures might
tell us how to live our life, it does not however tell how the governing bodies
of the temple should function. What you are asking for is to dismantle years
of rules and regulation has has been there for centuries.

Have you ever gone to a Mosque or a Church ? If not, you have no right in
bringing up this subject. Forget non-hindu temple or church, have you gone
to a Sikh or Jain temple? If the answer is NO, then dont talk, you have not
earned the knowledge to talk.
...

I have given up on any meaningful rebuttal to the points made by
Lotus_quartz. At best his/her comments are in the same line as the
Maruti Charector.
....
I am a modern man and an opened minded person, but having seen what
the western folk think about us or how they portray us in the world or in
their country, I will support the Temple's decision if they disallow them into
the temple. Of course, if an Indian does marry a westerner, they do have
the right as spouse to a Hindu can come into the temple.

You know why Westerners are so jealous of India? We have a huge history
and culture. We have grown over many Centuries. We have so many different
languages indigenous to India alone, no other country can claim the same.
...
Jai Hind!

-GGR
​

 

[NARAS]

sirs- quantity is more important than quality. we should not copy abrahamic religions like islam and christianity in trying to spread hinduism all over the world like wild fire or killer virus.!

 

[kudumi]

Respect and intention.

Dear LQ,

I totally do not agree with point 5.
I think point 1 is better addressed when the anti brahman maya is lifted.
I have not even heard about manu smruthi apart from hearing from the Dravida parties.
I strongly agree on the other points.

I normally dont discuss religion in my public dealings, but when someone wants to know why I dont drink, or eat meat, first thing they ask me is, "Is it a religious thing"? I take sometime to explain the concept of karma, and we are responsible for our own actions, they totally agree. Sometimes, even atheists find the concept of Karma, Ahimsa etc as a totally agreeable and fair concepts. One of the atheists, I had a chance to talk to was even envious about the amount of freedom we have in hindu religion. Nobody has forced us to do anything in the name of religion.Why do I explain these things?- Because they wanted to know. If I feel that they are going to bullshit afterall, I never answer.
If someone wants to visit a temple out of Bhakthi, or even curiosity, it is equally acceptable. But how does one know the real intentions? Are the temple staff knowledgeable enough? I think not. Thats the one reason I think why the temple administrators in some temples have out that signs.

Actually, I was very much surpriced to hear that lots of westerners also visit hindu temples in the west and in India.

When one of my foreign friends visited india, he used to go to Kabaali temple, ParthaSarathy temple, and other places. And some colleagues of mine have even gone to kaashi and had darshan of all the temples. Foreign visitors to Chidambaram temple, Arunachala temple, and temples of Kanchi are not uncommon.

Consider the attitude of our own parties, and you will know the difference.

That said, when I took my friend to Mahabalipuram, why does the board say "Indian Rs5" and "Foreigners $5"? Its not a temple anyway . I was personally offended.

When I travel abroad, people try their best to make me feel at home, and nowhere was I discriminated because of my looks or color. But here it is written on the board. In India the price of an item varies depending on the colour of the skin ( some economist has to advice me on the relatioship between skin color,and price, and also the relationship between getting off a car/moped/cycle/walk with suit/pant/lungi and the price- may be hari can do that please).

While the above para may seem irrelevant, the point I am trying to make is, we have discriminatory practices in all spheres of our lives. And I strongly believe, religion has nothing to do with it.

 

[maruti]

That said, when I took my friend to Mahabalipuram, why does the board say "Indian Rs5" and "Foreigners $5"? Its not a temple anyway . I was personally offended.

Why are you offended by this? Makes no sense.

 

[NARAS]

sirs - it is also a well known fact, and it has been mentioned many times in this forum itself, that even if Lord shiva were to come to a vaishnava temple, he cannot enter sanctum sanctorum! Lord vishnu also cannot enter sanctum sanctorum of shiva temples. so, when there are restrictions even on hindu
gods, what is wrong in restricting non hindus?

 

[kashyap]

If I could

If I contol those temples, I will let every one in.

But since I dont beleive in infringing on other's personal beliefs, I would rather build a new temple, and I will let everyone in.

After all God is everywhere. It is the strength of your devotion which matters and which draws his essence.

Definitley it may call for more security in terms of adequate scanners at the entrance and other fortifications but it can be provided for.

 

[maruti]

Most westerners visit temples, like you often visit the zoo, museum etc. No devotion, just fun. I really don't see why temples need such people. It's not a bar where you allow everyone, it's a sacred place and rules have to be followed.

As to charging $5 for westerners and Rs.5 for Indians, I see nothing wrong with this. It's practical. What's Rs5 to you is $5 for the westerners. Let them pay, no harm done. Or, are there ppl around here who suggest westerners should only pay Rs. 5, or even less???

India, being a poor nation, this is a good way to generate revenue. But of course, most Indians pretend to be moral and righteous, so they may not like all this, and they demand equality (what a laugh!) when the whole world treats Indians like crap. Is it any wonder that Indians have been slaves for centuries?:thumb:

 

[kashyap]

of course rules will be there

Rules applicable to a temple will be in operation in the new temple which will be constructed( if god wills). Naturally a person who is drunken cannot get in at that state --whoever it may be. A person with explosives or other armsa will not be allowed in.
So if theoretically speaking , using a cliche, suppose a "brahmin" who is drunken and a "shudra" or a christian who comes with flowers to the lord arrive at the gates of the temple -- no prizes for guessing who should be let in.
Again, my concern was for Indians of other religions and all hindus to visit a temple. I did not bring westerners into the scope but someone else did . So here goes.
Regarding those westerners who consider it just a fun place--how does it matter ? as long as they are not obstructing the rituals there why should they be stopped? I don't own the GOD. GOD is supposed to own us or include us all.
That way I have seen many of my friends and relatives visitng a temple and spending their time only in needless chatter including about the mega serials in TV.
Basically no one can find the intentions of a person getting in. (There is no mental scan yet ). Care should be taken that he does not turn out to be dangerous for other's safety. That is about it.
So how does it matter if a westerner treats this as a fun visit or as a place where he can appreciate the architecture etc as long as he is not interfering with the rituals there.
When we visit places of interest outside India, everyone is charged equally -- be it localite or outsider-- anyway I am currently not focussing on the fee sturcture for foreigners.
BTW I have seen many westerners make annual pilgrimage to temples like chidambaram for the charriot festival when the murthy of the lord is taken outside. They say that they feel some strange attraction from Nataraja and that is what brings them often to that place. I did not myself feel that sort of attraction. So I would rather that they be allowed to go inside than me.

 

[hariharan1972]

Some Thoughts




Rajiv,

I am finding interesting contrasts in your views on Temple entry. Note i am only saying 'contrasts' not 'contradictions'.

I say contrasts because, you have written that you have visited shrines of other religions & you observe that the entry is 'restricted' to certain parts. Put other way, it is not a 'free entry' but 'conditional entry' right ?

Now in case of Dr KJY, if you extend the argument, how would you respond to the request that Dr KJY be allowed inside the temple but not inside the 'sanctum sanctorum'. Not one is allowed inside the 'sanctum sanctorum' in any case but just as a thought, what is your view on Dr KJY being allowed to have a darshan of the Lord ?

Also don't you find it surprising that the loud speakers at Guruvayoor or any temple for that matter can blare the songs sung by Dr KJY but not allow him entry ?

Like i wrote elsewhere, i am finding genuine bhakti & respect for Hinduism in Dr KJY's renditions, not sure how you feel about it....

Also i find it a bit surprising that you write that (in my words) "unless you have visited the temples of other religions you haven't got the knowledge to write etc....."....Isn't that a bit far fetched ? If experience is the pre-condition to comment about anything or participate in anything, well that's unacceptable to me. (By the way, most of us wouldn't get married too !!!)

I don’t know why you are upset by LQ’s postings coz I truly believe that he is one of the best in the forum. (Not because he loves scotch & sent me stuff to understand bridge !!!)

Ofcourse I do find certain ‘impracticalities’ in his suggestions like ‘rewriting the scriptures’ etc.. but the points he has raised about projecting the positive aspects of Hinduism is very very valid. This is very essential too to counter the KKK propaganda.

LQ – The reason I say your suggestion of rewriting scriptures is impractical is because where do you find scholars who are capable of doing it ? What is the guarantee that the rewritten one will be better than the original & how acceptable it would be ? How about change management for these scriptures ?

If you look at Indian Constitution, it had some of the finest brains supervising it’s writing but look at the number of amendments (100+ in 60 years ?) it had undergone. Given this fact there is a certain amount of ‘nervousness’ to the suggestion of rewriting scriptures which is quite understandable.

Rajiv & LQ – Definitely both of you are very good contributors & I wish you could get a rapprochement between the two.

 

[KRS]

LQ, please contact me

Dear LQ Ji,

If you like Scotch, you are my bro.

Love,
KRS

 

[lotus_quartz]

There seems to be an impression gathering ground that I may be an incorrigible alcoholic ! I am quite far from it ! My occasional reference to the spirits was more in jest than anything.

I wanted to invite the attention of the honorable members to the fact that Hinduism has nothing for or against the dietary habits of its followers and we should not try to apply the customary straight-jacket to everyone. If some people restricted themselves to vegetarian diets and complete abstinence from alcohol etc., and preferred to call themselves as 'brahmins', I suppose it would be their personal affair.

But using the garb of religion, If they try to establish themselves as born-superior to others, denigrate others and call some people as scum on the face of earth, I strongly object. A man can become great only by his 'karma' and not by his or her 'janma'.

Dear KRS ji, most members on this forum hold you in high esteem due to your erudite postings , extracts from vedas, high qaulity chintana etc. You indeed stand out like the finest scotch whisky in a crowd of desi tharra (country hooch). I feel privileged to be called by you as 'brother'. I indeed share your appreciation of brews of the scottish highlands. PRANAMS !!

Dear LQ Ji,

If you like Scotch, you are my bro.

Love,
KRS

 

[kashyap]

Dear KRS ji, most members on this forum hold you in high esteem due to your erudite postings , extracts from vedas, high qaulity chintana etc. You indeed stand out like the finest scotch whisky in a crowd of desi tharra (country hooch). I feel privileged to be called by you as 'brother'. I indeed share your appreciation of brews of the scottish highlands. PRANAMS !!

I am going to play ramadasu and thiruma for a while and call
LQ totally unpatriotic. How can you insult the beloved country hooch.
This is symptomatic of the servility. haha hooo o hoooo
I wil bring down heaven and earth now.
On behalf of fellow country hooches, I will organize a bandh -- and just watch outside your window-- Broom wielding martyrs are already in front of your house (they will start the demonstration soon as the TV cameras are in place)

LQ this is against gandhiism.!!
I will organize peyranis and address a meeting where I will invoke mahatma gandhi's name and say how he fought for indian's self respect and by the same principle we must endorse desi hooches over phoren viskies.
:flypig:

I will recommend the following pledge for all true blue drinking Indians:
Indian hooch is my drink. All varieties of Indian hooches are my beloved drinks.
I hate scotch whisky . I will strive to ban it forever.

############## ramadasu and thiruma effect over.

 

[hariharan1972]

Apologies

LQ,

My apologies, if i have unwittingly played a part in members mis-understanding about you.

I referred to your liking for scotch in a lighter vein & little did i realise that it would be construed differently.

My apologies once again.

I fully subscribe to your views about the lifestyle choices & there need be no moral policing.

 

[NARAS]

sirs - it may be true that 'hinduism' does not consider dietary habits as part of religion. but brahminism does consider drunkards and meat eaters as infidels. and this is a punishable offence. let there not be any doubt about that. in fact even thiruvalluvar says 'even if a bramin forgets vedas , he can learn it, but if he forfeits morality, then he is finished!' in the name of 'lifestyle choices' & 'objection to moral policing' if meating and boozing are justified , it automatically justifies gambling, smoking, horse racing, free sex & all other evils also.

 

[silverfox]

Hey guys!
Last October, I was in Scotland for a week and had taken a tour of one of the finest and oldest scotch whiskey breweries, Glen-Levitt. Believe me, I have never touched hard liquor before! At the end of the tour, they gave us all one shot of each 12-year old, 15-year old and an 18-year old. I did try them all and found that the 15-year old was the smoothest. On my honor! after that episode, I haven't touched liquor!
In the US, I do drink a glass of red-wine with the dinner because it is supposed to be healthy and good for the heart. Besides, I have a good friend who owns a small vineyard and I get some red wine once in a while!

 

[kashyap]

manu smriti -- what is its relevance ???

We have come a long way since the theory by (Prof.) Manu which asked the devout to pour molten lead into the ears of shudras if they happen to hear the verses of holy shlokas etc.

Often I see manu smriti being mentioned here in the forum. But when I grew up it was never taught to me. All I was taught was some shlokas in praise of the lord -- such as ganesha stotram , lingashtakam, vishnu sahasranamam, lalitha sahasranama , vinayakar agaval and kanda shashti kavacham etc. Also rudra, chamaka to a lil extent.
No manu smriti was taught.
Only time I came across that was when my father told abt an incident where verse in it was questioned by his n-b colleagues. Needless to say that is the verse which tells abt different people coming out from different parts of god's body. ( I had mentioned earlier abt this in who r we thread). Even this verse was not taught to me as a religious teaching.

So the point I am making is I never grew up listening any advise or teachings on how to treat people based on manu smriti or any such treatise. All I was taught was everything is God.

But I hear many western TVs reporting how teachings in islamic schools impress the young students to hate others. Also the KKK clan consisting Dravidian parties are doing no less.

So my question is why is manu smriti brought up when discussing about the oppression faced by brahmins when in present day or at least 3 generations back ( at least in my family ) no one ever used it in any way????
I think this must be the case in all brahmin households. Then why is so much noise made abt manu smriti???

If people are talking abt past before that -- no one really knows what happened in the past.

Past stories about the ancestors of a person can never justify how you judge a person in present.
No one hates a progeny of Genghis Khan or Mao or Stalin. So why brahmins alone or treated like this without any reason ?

This is nothing other than yet another way to slander a person whom you happen to dislike or jealous about ( I am not suggesting LQ is doing this here. Quoting LQ's line is only to cite an example of a reference to manu smriti. In fact only after reading his post i came to know abt the molten Pb funda )
But why should there be a talk abt manu when we r looking at present and future????
What purpose is served here ???

 

[kudumi]

Manavaadu managaru

Most westerners visit temples, like you often visit the zoo, museum etc. No devotion, just fun. I really don't see why temples need such people. It's not a bar where you allow everyone, it's a sacred place and rules have to be followed.

As to charging $5 for westerners and Rs.5 for Indians, I see nothing wrong with this. It's practical. What's Rs5 to you is $5 for the westerners. Let them pay, no harm done. Or, are there ppl around here who suggest westerners should only pay Rs. 5, or even less???

India, being a poor nation, this is a good way to generate revenue. But of course, most Indians pretend to be moral and righteous, so they may not like all this, and they demand equality (what a laugh!) when the whole world treats Indians like crap. Is it any wonder that Indians have been slaves for centuries?:thumb:

Who is a foreigner? Manavaadu managaru, who proudly says " I am American" at every given opportunity still pays Rs5. Whereas the other guy just because his appearence is different shelves out $5? Whats the logic?

Why does the world treat us like crap? Its because we do not have any self respect. Our netas should make us proud. Instead they let us down repeatedly.

THe world treats us like crap because, we shit on the road like animals, yet have a color TV at home ( free or otherwise).

 

[lotus_quartz]

I do appreciate that the suggestion is fraught with impracticalities.

But if we can not initiate an effort to rectify the situation in today's world with access to all possible technologies, finances, resources, then imagine how the original authors of such works (who were not exactly literate from today's standards) with limited finances, primitive technologies were successful in crafting long stories of superiority of one type of individuals over other types and successfully sell the idea to countless generations of kings, subjects and followers ?

Besides, somewhere at the sub-cutaneous levels, we all suffer from arrogance arising from the superiority complex of being the apex of the hierarchy.

It is a bit late for brahmins to claim innocence of their role in splitting the society on caste lines or distance themselves from manu's ideology. Perpetuating or helping to perpetuate an unjust system is not only an act of omission but also an act of complicity and commission. Ceaser's wife has to be above suspicion !

All others will immediately trash it as "Sau Sau Choohe Kha Ke Billi Haj ko Chali !". (meaning, "..After eating hundreds of mice, cat goes on pilgrimage to absolve itself of the guilt..").

Can any of us honestly admit that If we were born as dalit and inspite of all the intelligence and knowledge, some johnie comes and tells that we are born-scum or some religious book calls us junk, will we continue to take pride in calling ourselves a Hindu or repose faith in such books to get us deliverance ?

Ofcourse I do find certain ‘impracticalities’ in his suggestions like ‘rewriting the scriptures’ etc.. but the points he has raised about projecting the positive aspects of Hinduism is very very valid. This is very essential too to counter the KKK propaganda.

LQ – The reason I say your suggestion of rewriting scriptures is impractical is because where do you find scholars who are capable of doing it ? What is the guarantee that the rewritten one will be better than the original & how acceptable it would be ? How about change management for these scriptures ?

If you look at Indian Constitution, it had some of the finest brains supervising it’s writing but look at the number of amendments (100+ in 60 years ?) it had undergone. Given this fact there is a certain amount of ‘nervousness’ to the suggestion of rewriting scriptures which is quite understandable.

 

[KRS]

There seems to be an impression gathering ground that I may be an incorrigible alcoholic ! I am quite far from it ! My occasional reference to the spirits was more in jest than anything.

Dear KRS ji, most members on this forum hold you in high esteem due to your erudite postings , extracts from vedas, high qaulity chintana etc. You indeed stand out like the finest scotch whisky in a crowd of desi tharra (country hooch). I feel privileged to be called by you as 'brother'. I indeed share your appreciation of brews of the scottish highlands. PRANAMS !!

Dear Sri lotus_quartz Ji,

I posted my reference to Scotch with some 'Kurumbu' knowing that it would elicit some strong views.

First of all I would like my friends here to know that just because one is not a teetotaler, that does not make one an automatic alcoholic. Responsible drinking of alcohol and wine is part of a healthy diet as recent studues have shown. The only thing with respect to our religion is that any consumption of alcohol may reduce the 'sattvic' quotient in a person and as such may interfere with conditioning one's body and mind towards yogas.

By the way, I can prove that my forefathers were the ones who brought whisky making to Scotland! As Sri Naran Ji once pointed out, the 'secularists' may one day prove that 'Ireland' was populated by 'Iyers'. Then it is not too far fetched to say that they also 'colonized' the nearby Scotland! The proof can be found in a very common Scottish last name, "Ayer". So these 'Iyers' must have originated from the Sind region where all the ingredients (such as grain etc.) needed to make a fine Scotch are grown. There you go! I rest my case.

Seriously, you are being too kind! I am not an 'intellectual', but like you having met all other cultures and people, I had to make sense of my religion for myself. I am glad that some of you are finding some of my postings useful. Thank you.

Pranams,
KRS