Are brahmins support dr ramadoss' pmk?

[kunjuppu]

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I was surprised when i read this comment. absolutely surprised...


Kannan
பாட்டாளி மக்கள் கட்சி மீது மக்கள் நிறைய நம்பிக்கை வைத்துள்ளார்கள் ஆகையால் வன்னியர்கள் மட்டும் இல்லை அனைத்து சாதி மக்களும் குறிப்பாக பிராமணர்கள் நமக்கு ஆதரவாக வாக்கு அளிக்க முடிவு செய்து விட்டார்கள் உதரணமாக சென்னை வெஸ்ட் மாம்பலம் பகுதி மக்களிடம் காண முடிகிறது ஆகையால் வரும் தேர்தல்களில் பாட்டாளி மக்கள் கட்சி வெற்றி பெறுவது உறுதி ..

this came in today's tamil hindu online.

பா.ம.க.வின் புரியாத புதிர் - ஜாதி அமைப்புகளுடன் இணைந்து 4-வது அணிக்கான முயற்சி!

is this the reason for it after all?



Sasikumar
ராமதாஸ் பற்றி தவறாக பதிவிடிருக்கும் நம் நண்பர்களே உங்கள் குடும்பத்தில் உள்ள பெண்களை வேறு சாதியில் திருமணம் செய்துகொடுக்க நீங்கள் தயாரா? உங்கள் அனைவரின் மனத்திலும் சாதி .... சென்ற தேர்தலிலும் ப ம க சார்பாக வேலு அவர்கள் அரக்கோணம் தொகுதியில் நின்றார் அவர் வன்னியர் அவரை எதிர்த்து போட்டியிட தி மு க வேட்பாளர் ஜெகத்ரட்சகன் அவரும் வன்னியர் இதிலிருந்தே அனைவர்க்கும் புரியும் சாதி என்பது அனைவர் மனத்திலும் உண்டு , ராமதாஸ் செல்லும் பாதை மிகச்ரியனதே

 

[mkrishna100]

PMK Ramdoss is doing what Mayavati did in UP i.e uniting various caste factions including Brahmins for consolidating the caste votes .

 

[kunjuppu]

PMK Ramdoss is doing what Mayavati did in UP i.e uniting various caste factions including Brahmins for consolidating the caste votes .

yes.. against the dalits. their hatred of the dalits is so deep, that i shudder, when i read some of their views.

 

[vgane]

I too was surprised by the comments posted ...There seems to be so much support for PMK..May be among the Vanniars only..Not sure if other communities also will vote caste wise

 

[Vaagmi]

My views on this:

1. Brahmins should never join a caste grouping which excludes Dalits.

2. They should work towards eradication of discrimination in the name of caste and not castes themselves.

3. We can live with castes, after removing its fangs, without wasting our energy on trying to eradicate it.

4. There are so many facets of life which are unique to India. Like the familial ties between father and son and father and daughter. Like between mother and son and mother and daughter. Like between husband and wife. Like life long commitment to an individual by marriage. These are all funny things for westerners and Indian who have imbibed the western values and culture. So let us dump them as aliens.

5. If PMK is trying to hammer out a coalition of upper caste it is illadvised. It would be better to work towards unity in the polity.

6. Despite all these facts if caste groupings have to take shape, brahmins should join the dalit outfits and work for a united struggle against the middle lump of Naidus, Naickers, Mudaliyars, Pillais, Thevars and Vanniyars.

 

[sarang]

Brahmanas must not join any group; they must do what is dharmic and right. They will be blamed and pilloried irrespective of what they do.

In the 2004 walk the talk interview with shekar gupta, Sri Narendra Modi said - if I say I feel sorry for the riots, you will call me a hypocrite; if I say I don't care, you will call me heartless. In the present scenario, they must vote for the Modi mission - development for all, appeasement of none.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Brahmanas must not join any group; .... They will be blamed and pilloried irrespective of what they do.

Very perceptive!

:6. ...... brahmins should join the dalit outfits and workfor aunited struggle against the middle lump of Naidus, Naickers, Mudaliyars, Pillais,Thevars and Vanniyars.

And become the target of increased hatred from the ‘middle lump’ which constitute the majority? They will be blamed and pilloried more because of such action, to borrow from sarang’s post!

 

[Brahmanyan]

Brahmins , by nature, are individuals. Very difficult to bind them into any single political group. Each one will think and take a decision which suits him. We can find Brahmin leaders in most of the political outfits of today from extreme Left to right. Even the right-hand man of BSP leader is a Brahmin. If Ramdoss thinks that Brahmins will support his Party en-mass, he is making a big mistake.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Race is at the heart of politics of the dravidianist parties, reflected in the names of the parties themselves.

பாட்டாளி மக்கள் கட்சி is for the upliftment of downtrodden people. Why are they considered a bad choice?

 

[Vaagmi]

Very perceptive!
And become the target of increased hatred from the ‘middle lump’ which constitute the majority? They will be blamed and pilloried more because of such action, to borrow from sarang’s post!

That would only be a formal statement of an existing truth. Are we the darling of these middle lump now? Dalits are harmless whereas these caste groups belonging to the middle lump are poisonous and cunning. Numerically insignificant groups such as mudaliyars, Naidus etc enjoy disproportionate political clout only by riding on the hatred wave against brahmins. The hostility of these groups towards brahmins is palpable in any walk of life and what are we afraid of?

 

[Naina_Marbus]

......If Ramdoss thinks that Brahmins will support his Party en-mass, he is making a big mistake.

Sounds like “mistaking the forest for the trees”

Brahmins , by nature, are individuals. Verydifficult to bind them into any single political group. Each one will think andtake a decision which suits him.

But, so are other castes! They are also, by nature, individuals, and very difficult to bind them into single political group! Consider the way some caste politicians switch parties – yesterday, they were in DMK (or ADMK), today they are in ADMK (or DMK), tomorrow it may be MDMK or whatever; and their coterie (mostly fellow caste members) follow suit.
But, to all castes, their community interest comes first. Clearly, the vanniyars were discriminated by the dominant caste groups in the Kazhagam parties, otherwise, Dr.Ramdas would not act the way he does. By the same token, Brahmins, as a community, are quite likely to support Dr. Ramdas, for the simple reason that “of the two evils, choose the lesser one”. That is the bigger picture.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Oct 13, 2013

sir,

your comments are quite interesting.

Your statement that brahmins are individuals is only partly true.

In tamil nadu, there are two major brahmin groups – iyers and iyengars. While iyengars are generally united, iyers are not so. The reason is that iyengars are following a specific sambradaya, whereas iyers have no specific customs and conventions. Iyers don’t have exclusive sambradaya. They are neither saivite nor vaishnavite. If you look at the various religious group, the groups which have specific system are generally united (sikhs, jains etc.).

Jayalalitha, being an iyengar, has unprecendented support from her community; even hindu the national newspaper indirectly supports her whenever it is necessary. During the fight between v n janaki and jayalalitha, hindu had a clear siding towards jayalalitha. Even in cricket, you can find this. The reason is exclusive sambradaya.

Since iyers are followers of adi shankara , the community is forced to adhere to all systems. Even within a family, you can find different systems, gods, functions etc. Some iyer families are celebrating varalakshmi vradham, whereas it is not so in the case of iyengars, which is a point to remember.

When jayendra saraswathi was arrested in 2004, no prominent iyer has supported him, except r venkataraman.

Iyers are also lacking leadership qualities because of no specific sambradaya. Unless you have specific customs and conventions, you cannot expect unity within in the community. In india, without support you can’t achieve.

Though sathyamoorthy was a prominent congressman, he did not have much influence like rajaji.

Another interesting feature about iyers is that they glorify iyengars (eg. Rajaji by kalki) but the same thing is not fo from iyengars. I have never come across an iyengar glorified an iyer, unless he is internationally recognised.

In office, you can find iyengars are generally united and iyers are very much scattered, siding with iyengars.

Without exclusive / specific approach, you cannot expect unity, at least in india.

Unfortunately, in tamil nadu, iyers have come to firm conclusion that they cannot survive without the support of iyengars.

Carnatic music is a perfect example.

You have mentioned about bsp. North indian brahmins are totally different. They are not like us.

Your comments please.


S chandrasekaran

 

[renuka]

That would only be a formal statement of an existing truth. Are we the darling of these middle lump now? Dalits are harmless whereas these caste groups belonging to the middle lump are poisonous and cunning. Numerically insignificant groups such as mudaliyars, Naidus etc enjoy disproportionate political clout only by riding on the hatred wave against brahmins. The hostility of these groups towards brahmins is palpable in any walk of life and what are we afraid of?

Brahmins in TN should form a Progressive Front Type of party which should welcome a good number of Dalits in as members..let there be some 40% Brahmin members, 30% Dalits members and 30% Non Dalits Non Brahmin members..the only way to be in power is not to play the caste game directly but still hold the reins of the party.

This way no one can blame anyone for playing caste politics.

Just have a few old members to make up the majority but roping in retired government servants to be the advisors but let the younger people have the main say.

Make sure the old advisors are old enough to not be interested to stand for elections..no one would want an advisor who eyes the post I am sure!

 

[vgane]

Oct 13, 2013

sir,

your comments are quite interesting.

Your statement that brahmins are individuals is only partly true.

In tamil nadu, there are two major brahmin groups – iyers and iyengars. While iyengars are generally united, iyers are not so. The reason is that iyengars are following a specific sambradaya, whereas iyers have no specific customs and conventions. Iyers don’t have exclusive sambradaya. They are neither saivite nor vaishnavite. If you look at the various religious group, the groups which have specific system are generally united (sikhs, jains etc.).

Jayalalitha, being an iyengar, has unprecendented support from her community; even hindu the national newspaper indirectly supports her whenever it is necessary. During the fight between v n janaki and jayalalitha, hindu had a clear siding towards jayalalitha. Even in cricket, you can find this. The reason is exclusive sambradaya.

Since iyers are followers of adi shankara , the community is forced to adhere to all systems. Even within a family, you can find different systems, gods, functions etc. Some iyer families are celebrating varalakshmi vradham, whereas it is not so in the case of iyengars, which is a point to remember.

When jayendra saraswathi was arrested in 2004, no prominent iyer has supported him, except r venkataraman.

Iyers are also lacking leadership qualities because of no specific sambradaya. Unless you have specific customs and conventions, you cannot expect unity within in the community. In india, without support you can’t achieve.

Though sathyamoorthy was a prominent congressman, he did not have much influence like rajaji.

Another interesting feature about iyers is that they glorify iyengars (eg. Rajaji by kalki) but the same thing is not fo from iyengars. I have never come across an iyengar glorified an iyer, unless he is internationally recognised.

In office, you can find iyengars are generally united and iyers are very much scattered, siding with iyengars.

Without exclusive / specific approach, you cannot expect unity, at least in india.

Unfortunately, in tamil nadu, iyers have come to firm conclusion that they cannot survive without the support of iyengars.

Carnatic music is a perfect example.

You have mentioned about bsp. North indian brahmins are totally different. They are not like us.

Your comments please.


S chandrasekaran

Dear Sri Chandru,

Your statements about Madam Jayalalitha are incorrect......She does not differentiate based on caste.......She is supported now by all castes and communities in TN and there in lies her strength....In the 80's when she joined politics she was supported overwhelmingly by both Iyer & Iyengar...Later when she became CM she maintained good relations with all..Now all castes are overwhelmingly supporting Madam...Please do not say that only Iyengars are supporting her..It might be viewed as being mischievous

The arrest of Shankaracharya was one of the toughest decisions that she had to take due to various reasons (I think this was discussed in earlier threads)...I personally feel she is much above the Iyer/Iyengar quarrel


Iyers and Iyengars have to work together for Brahmin unity....In case you start differentiating then you have dug the first pit

As far as Sampradaya is concerned Iyers are Smarthas...So they follow all customs & traditions..Smarthas are liberal or non sectarian in their outlook...Why do you want Iyers to get into a Sampradaya?

 

[Vaagmi]

Brahmins in TN should form a Progressive Front Type of party which should welcome a good number of Dalits in as members..let there be some 40% Brahmin members, 30% Dalits members and 30% Non Dalits Non Brahmin members..the only way to be in power is not to play the caste game directly but still hold the reins of the party.

This way no one can blame anyone for playing caste politics.

Just have a few old members to make up the majority but roping in retired government servants to be the advisors but let the younger people have the main say.

Make sure the old advisors are old enough to not be interested to stand for elections..no one would want an advisor who eyes the post I am sure!

Dear Renuka,

Having read your post I am waiting for the denouement. LOL.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Oct 14, 2013

Sir,

I have read your reply with interest.

It is amusing that Jayalalitha is not differentiating based on caste. You may note that AIADMk was not formed by Jayalalitha but by MGR, a malayalee non-brahmin. She occupied the chair since no other person capable of doing it.

In Tamil Nadu, both DMK and AIADMK are supported by specific caste groups, and
jayalalitha has overwhelming support from all castes is a myth. The political equation
in Tamil Nadu is based on coalition, not on individual charsima. Only MGR had that and
he won during 1980, facing a tough battle against DMK and Congress. In fact, even today,
AIADMK vote percentage is less than DMK. If Jayalalaitha has overwhelming support, why
did she contest from Srirangam, an Iyengar bastion.

Jayalalitha's period during 1991-1996 happened to be the darkest period in Tamil Nadu
and she lost the election as a CM.

As regards unity among Iyers and Iyengars, unity can happen only if you have common
principle. goal, idea etc. Can you please tell how may Iyengars name their children with
Saivite God names. Mere 'Poonal' cannot bring unity. Seven communities in Hindu Religion
are wearing 'Poonal'.

Sampradaya or specific customs/convention is a must for achieving the desired results.

Smartha sampradaya was formed during First Century A.D before the advent of Adi Shankara. Smarthas have no idle and human worship, godmen like Rama and Krishna. After the advent of
Adi Shankara everything has changed more particularly in South. Smarthas are spread
throughout India, but not Iyengars.

Iyers have to pay a heavy price for the heinous crime committed against RAMANUJA by not recognising him, who was born a Vadama Iyer. ultimately leading to fragmentation of Iyer community, one group following Kanchi and another Sringeri.

As a first step, let us first ask Iyengars to name their children with Saivite Gods, for unity of
Brahmin community.

I am sure you will attempt this.


S CHANDRASEKARAN

 

[Nara]

.... iyengars are generally united,

Since when? The divisions that exist in India are reflected in the U.S. as well. Not only are they divided along Kalai lines, the Vadakalais are divided along Matam and Munithraiyam as well.

 

[tbs]

Since when? The divisions that exist in India are reflected in the U.S. as well. Not only are they divided along Kalai lines, the Vadakalais are divided along Matam and Munithraiyam as well.

hi
chandru quoted like this...... iyengars are generally united.....so when compared iyers.....iyengars are having more united in ghosti....

iyers never had ghosti sampradaya.....more liberal than conservative....

 

[sarang]

Both the terms liberal and conservative apply to the area of civil liberties and economy and certainly not to our philosophy and way of life.

Saiva-vaishnava-vadama -iyer-iyengar goshtis do not fall in the deemed category.

They will not converge either at micro or macro levels. Why should they?