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Are ghosts real? Rationalists say no-o-o-o

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prasad1

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Disclaimer: I do not believe in Ghosts, astrology, etc.
I do believe in Brahman (GOD), so may not be a rationalist.

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From being a figment of your imagination on a cold, dark night to being active only in a gullible mind, skeptics have many reasons to rule out the existence of ghosts. Sonal Ved finds out the other side of the story


Ghosts and ghouls have been a part of the Indian (and other parts of the world as well) belief system for aeons. Starting from the mention of demons in our ancient scriptures to the existence of gods such as Kal Bhairav, a manifestation of Shiva, who was allegedly the lord of ghosts and commandeered an army of ghouls. And In India, we have an array of names for our night-time visitors — chudail, bhoot, dayan, pret, pisach, aatma — which goes to say that as Indians, our fascination with the paranormal is old and deep rooted.


And this belief system is not bound by geography — a metrosexual male is just as likely to be predisposed to superstitions as a village bumpkin. Narendra Nayak, president, Federation of Rationalist Associations of India, says that fear has little to do with one's reasoning capacity. "Since the ghost is in the mind of the people, one simply becomes a superstitious urban dweller from being a superstitious rural one," says Nayak. "It is the religious and cultural background, and indoctrination from a very young age that makes people believe in ghosts even today."


The Mangalore-based rationalist puts it succinctly when he explains the widespread belief in the paranormal among Indians: "The Indian society is a peculiar mixture of a 21st century technology superimposed on a 16th century mindset," says Nayak. "Our education system doesn't encourage rational thinking. We are good at using technology and applying it to preset tasks, but that's it. Which is why we have a puja before sending a rocket to Mars or so-called ghostly phenomenon in the national capital."


Skeptics claim that ghosts don't exist because of the contradictions in the beliefs that surround them. Their argument is that if ghosts are spirits of dead humans, then why are there no ghosts of animals, who also (supposedly) have a soul? "If claims that ghosts do not show up in developed photographs are true, then all the 'evidence' showing them as blur visions should be immediately ruled out," says BL Yadav, president of The Rationalist Society, Jaipur.
While this particular reasoning might work to write off the shadows in the dark, what about ghosts that take a physiological form by possessing a body, by making eerie noises or breaking objects? "In most such cases, it is the doing of another human being. A supposedly possessed body could be someone's mental illusion or a psychological disease," says Yadav.


Nayak illustrates the human intervention theory by an example. In 1986, his team was challenged by a local newspaper, known for promoting sensationalism around paranormal things, to investigate an apparently haunted residence-cum-hotel in Adyanadka village, about 50 km from Mangalore. It was said that a ghost had been throwing stones on the hotel building. The owner said that while in the daytime, the ghost threw small pebbles, the size of the stones increased drastically at night. He further claimed that the stones were alien to the region.


After some basic investigation, Nayak's team revealed that the 'ghost' was actually a family that lived behind the hotel. The woman of that house wanted to scare away the owners so that her family could take over the hotel business. "Since during the day, their young daughter pelted the stones, she used smaller ones. By night time, the father took over this duty, which is why the stones got larger," explains Nayak. On further exploring the area, Nayak's team also found many stones of the same type in the vicinity.


The inability to be rational in the face of seemingly inexplicable circumstances is aggravated by vested interests, leaving the ghost-believers vulnerable to exploitation. "There is a huge industry that thrives on these people. Everyone from sadhus, astrologers and religious gurus promote these ideas further," says M Hasan Jowher, President of Society for Promoting Rationality (SPRAT). "What's worse is that reputed media houses promote these beliefs by showing astrology shows that talk about getting rid of personal problems with the help of various rituals. This further reinforces their beliefs."


The key in not giving in to fear and superstition is to have a questioning mind. Ask yourself some basic questions, say skeptics. "For instance, why do ghosts never show up in large crowds? Or why do they choose to appear only at night?" quips Yadav. And if this too doesn't work, think about this: If a ghost can walk through walls, then why doesn't it ever drop through the floor?
Are ghosts real? Rationalists say no-o-o-o | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
 

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If one believes in Brahman, then by extension Soul/Jeeva exists – as per Advaita ! And if one believes in Karma/rebirths, then by extension Ghosts exist as these are Souls transiting through different worlds till they are reborn or liberated/become one with Brahman.

Western researchers have no answer for many paranormal happenings, they keep spewing some “unproven” theories.

For eg, in UK, in one of the palaces, people often heard blood curdling cries, this lady was guillotined here many centuries back. Researchers were shocked when they too heard these cries. Then they came with the theory that sound of these “terrible cries” were trapped in the walls and trees & heard by these people. Are we to believe, somehow only these cries were trapped, what about all the sounds/noises made during the 4 centuries.. LOL .. some such “unproven” theories…

Just coz some people use the ghost theory for their personal gains, does not prove otherwise…

It has become very fashionable to proclaim as a rationalist fuelled by the west & mock all religious faith etc…
 
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If one believes in Brahman, then by extension Soul/Jeeva exists – as per Advaita ! And if one believes in Karma/rebirths, then by extension Ghosts exist as these are Souls transiting through different worlds till they are reborn or liberated/become one with Brahman.
I agree with that paragraph.

Ghost are not only in India, they are all over this world.
So just to blame western researches is not fair. What has the eastern researchers "proved"?
There are common misconceptions, there is common informations but faith is unique to every individual. There is nothing called common faith. Faith is individual.
 
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Sri Prasadji

I cant give you any rational explanation to prove that Ghosts are real; but my real life experience is here.


( This incident was narrated by me in some other thread also )


One winter night

Like this real life incident happened to me when I was working in Calcutta
I was young and bachelor then.


The factory where I was on the banks of Hoogly river; the place is called Sankrail, Howrah district (you can verify this)

Nearest Railway station is also called sankrail Railway Station.


I was doing at that time my post graduate MBA course from Calcutta University.
I was doing evening courses, that means by the time I reach Sankrail station from Howrah by train it would be around 11.30 pm. as there were very few locomotives trains at that time (1968-69)


Usually very few travel by that train to Sankrail, most of them get down at Andul station or some other big city station.
One winter night the train got delayed and reached Sankrail station just after midnight.


Only a couple of passengers got down and walked briskly in some other direction
I was all alone standing on the platform.


Suddenly I heard a lady voice in Bengali. Asking me” kemon achen” Meaning how are you?


I was feeling tired and thought some company is better than none.
I asked her where she is going. She told the a place which I know is very near to my factory She requested me to accompany her as she is afraid to walk in dark. I said ‘okay’ and we started to move. . She asked in soft voice where I was going, and I told her.



I tried to see her face, but she has covered it with a muffler

After a few steps she told me that she knows a short cut route to my place, I thought for a moment then agreed since it was pitch dark, and winter cold was biting me.

After walking about a km, we faced a burial ground!!! No one was around, only some tall palm trees. My heart skipped a beat. And I told her I do not want to through that burial ground.


The answer she gave me made me jump out of my skin!!!

She was laughing loudly and said she lives there…and vanished in thin air!!!!

My legs felt very heavy. I could not lift them. I could not ever cry out for help as no sound was coming from throat; something was blocking my throat.

Somehow I managed to turn back and ran towards a lamp post which I could see…

I was profusely sweating by the time I reached that Lamp post.
Fortunately for me a Bihar rickshaw fellow was there; sleeping on his vehicle.


I woke him up... and almost begged him to take to my address.( told him the factory name where company has provided me a bachelor accommodation)

He asked me double charge which I did not mind paying him. and thanked God for allowing me to stay alive.


You may brush off this experience as my imagination, but still believe, it was something else which lead me to Burial ground and got vanished!!
 
The famous Indian Rope Trick, was discredited by the western researchers for over 100+ yrs… in this a rope vertically raises into the Sky defying gravity, & then the son followed by the magician climb the rope… this was mentioned even by Shankara in this Advaita…

Our so called rationalists had a field day for 100+ yrs throwing challenge to everyone if they can prove it blah blah blah…

Recently in discovery channel, one of the guys from USA goes to a remote Indian village & see this trick. It was captured live on TV & shown…

Where a rural Indian magician plays music on the instrument like a snake charmer, & then the rope vertically rises to the sky without any support & his son climbs up in front of everyone…

So does true magic exist or ?
 
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There is a book by Guy de maupassant on ghosts, and about fear... it is worth a read. He says that the greatest fear is the fear of the unknown.

Once you face a ghost, ever should one exist, then what is there to be afraid of? Please sit back when you read this, and think about the possible outcomes. We will know what we are afraid of.
 
This happened to me during my visit to India in 2011 Feb. I visited Chennai, to the rented apartment that my mom lives in. My sister had visited me and on that day I was upset with my eldest nephew and had quite a fight with him. This was around evening 7:00 PM. Then I went to the kitchen to get myself some water and was standing facing the windows turning my back against the entrance way. Suddenly I envisioned someone transparent standing right behind me holding something like a sickle in his right hand and his hand was raised above as if in a position to blow out my brain. I immediately turned around and sprinkled some water on the ground, but I could not see anyone. That same night around 3:00 AM, I used the attached bathroom in one of the bedrooms and when I came out, I saw a dark figure lying on the bed I just got up from but facing the other way around and having a raised head looking up at a book rack on the opposite wall. I was terrified, I said, 'tu tu tu' in Tamil and hurried to another room and slept there.

For some weird reason, the people who lived above moved out/cleared the rental premises within a short while after this.

I am not imagining any of the above, it is 100% real I envisioned/saw this transparent figure under bright light that night.
 
Key difference: An Illusion is an image that deceives the mind by producing a false impression of reality. Magic is defined as the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of devices.
Magic tricks are performed by manipulating reality to deceive our mind, and Illusions are images created by our mind to deceive us from reality.

I can not explain all illusions or magic but you can find a lot of explanations in the internet. Magics and miracles are events that we do not know the explanations.

Breaking the Magician's Code: Magic's Biggest Secrets Finally Revealed is a series of television shows in which the methods behind magic tricks and illusions are explained. In its original incarnation there were four shows broadcast in 1997-1998 on the Fox network in the United States, and on Sky and ITV in the United Kingdom. In 2008-2009, a new series of thirteen shows was broadcast by MyNetworkTV in the United States and ITV4 in the United Kingdom.
[video=youtube;qTLeDNr6Ks0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qTLeDNr6Ks0[/video]
 
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There are any number of tricks which look amazing, till you know how it is done.
The simple trick of crating a rainbow with a glass prism is amazing, but not a magic.

[video=youtube;GKAktD-lNuk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GKAktD-lNuk[/video]
 
Dear Prasad ji,

I too am a Rationalist..that is I believe what I see..and believe me Ghosts DO exists!

I have seen enough to know that they exists.

But I must share this weird incident that happened yesterday.

I woke up at 6 am to exercise and when I came downstairs I saw a black cat in my hall.

I was wondering how it came in becos all windows and doors were closed..so I thought may be it came in some time earlier and hid somewhere and I never realized it.

It was very quiet and did not make a single sound.

I went to chase it but it still did not move..so I opened the front door to chase it towards the door it was just near me but I never saw it run and it just vanished right in front of my eyes!

So I really dont know what happened yesterday..whether my eyes played tricks on me or what?

Anyway I am quite used to Ghost episodes so I was not scared.

Even recently my staff complained of some unusual happenings in the clinic and one door opens and closes itself.

I too have heard that happen but I thought no big deal but the CCTV recordings proved something else..the door did open and close on its own with a hazy image passing thru it.

I did not tell my staff what I saw on CCTV becos I did not want them to panic.

My mum is all worked up and telling me to recite some prayers in clinic and she was telling me "this is what happens when you do not pray"LOL

Then I told her daily temple bells ring..church bells peal..azan plays 5 x a day in the world..yet ghosts exists..they too must be the same Atma as us..so I guess no prayer will work on anything..becos if its true that prayers work all ghosts should have left the planet by now.

So the best is to ignore everything..I have noted that when we ignore these entities it usually goes away on its own.
 
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BTW I have a question...when a person does a Homa does it cause temporary "unrest' for any entities?

Becos yesterday a neighbour staying 3 doors away was performing a Homa..one could here the Swaha Swaha being chanted and smell of Homa filled the neigbourhood.

Last night I thought I heard real unusual sounds everywhere in my house..sounds in the ceiling..sounds of footsteps and today morning the Muslim neighbour asked me if I heard some sounds in my house becos she said she heard all sorts of rattling sounds in the house and sounds in the ceiling too.

There was no break in anywhere too.

May be the effect of the Homa made some entities restless and they could have caused all these sounds?
 
now a shortest story on ghosts.

a newly wed entered a hotel room and switched on lights

in bed comfortably between sheets the new wife asked ' do you believe in ghosts'

The husband next to her said "no'. However his arms grew longer and longer reaching for the switch far away and switched of the light.
 
Human Brain is probably the most powerful and at the same time, the mysterious organ. Still Neurologists are not coming into a firm conclusion what is the real strength of a human brain and what are the different activities it performs.

Whenever we study and come across a subject at regular intervals, may be the subject is stored in the brain. If we come across anything differently or unusual of the subject, the brain may program it in such a way to make us think there is something in it.

I used to attend Carnatic Music concerts regularly (though I don't know anything about it; but due to age) and read details about musicians, past and present, and the interesting stories and controversies surrounding those musicians. Sometime, during sound sleep, I used to encounter some interesting messages about those musicians, who I have read in various websites. Even though in most of the cases, they are not true, the reason is that I continue my involvement in Carnatic Music the brain may activate such things.

Ghost is one such theory. Each and everyone, one way or the other, knows about ghost and its evil designs thru stories and religious texts. So, whenever we come across peculiar sounds, visuals etc. we correlate it with ghost.

Take the following two cases:

1. One member said he was accompanied by a woman and vanished at a burial ground. It was winter and mid night and naturally it was misty. The visibility naturally would have been very poor. When she said she was living there, the meaning should have been that she lived near the burial ground. The member would have read or evinced interest in ghost stories and this might have caused his brain to correlate this incident and come to a conclusion that she was a ghost.

2. Another member said, after performing Homam, the member and a muslim neighbour heard peculiar sounds. The member and muslim neighbour thought that the purpose of performing Homam was to drive away evil spirits. So, when they hear some sounds, they magnified it appear that evil spirits were running because of Homam. This is probably hallucination.


For a true believer of God and Rationalist, Ghost theory is nothing but hoax.

 
"Ghosts" can and do exist. But these ghosts will be visible for only some types of people and that too under certain special circumstances.

Ghosts are, in my view, the "karma Sareera" of people who have died. We do not know the exact details but, roughly, the Karma Sareeras of people with extreme evil thoughts, extreme evil deeds, very high ego and ambitions (which could not be satisfied in their lifetime), people with great and intense desires whose lives were cut short by accident, murder, suicide etc., will have their Karma Sareeras not decaying and dissolving into "prakriti" or nature as easily and quickly as in the case of normal deaths. This phenomenon is very akin to some persons living just in "name's sake" condition for many years but not dying.

Usually, people with extremely evil designs and actions, young people getting killed suddenly (what we call unnatural death by weapons, poisoning, accidents, drowning, suicide, etc.), very egotistic and ambitious persons who might have died after reaching old age but had not got over their ego/ambitions, etc., are the causes of these so-called ghosts. Our Saastras prescribe that in all such cases of death (except the last category, obviously!) a "Narayana Bali" must be done to prevent such manifestation as ghosts.

These ghosts do not have any mind or intellect of their own; they are like sheaths or overcoats worn by the concerned diseased persons, but, prodded by habits cultivated by their erstwhile living owners, these ghosts will usually roam about - both during days and nights - the places/locations which were the usual haunts of their living owners.

People with very weak or extremely sensitive nervous system/condition - such as women on days after delivery, people recovering from very serious illness/disease/major surgery, etc., young children and so on - as also some people who have, by being engaged in exorcism, very deep prayers to god (like some temple priests), etc., will be able to 'sense' these ghosts. For a normal person with healthy body and mind, it is only when fear engulfs him/her, that such apparitions will become 'visible' or 'detectible'.

Though these ghosts have no mind or intellect of their own, they always try to "fit-in" into living persons' physical bodies and once they are able to get such an entry, they play havoc with the mind and intellect of the occupied body. Exorcism of the pure, real kind will be of help in driving out this occupying Karma Sareera.

From the advaitic pov, these are like garbages, created by the deaths of some kinds of people, which do not decompose within short time and create many kinds of hazards and bad smell, obnoxious fumes, etc.
 
People with very weak or extremely sensitive nervous system/condition - such as women on days after delivery, people recovering from very serious illness/disease/major surgery, etc., young children and so on - as also some people who have, by being engaged in exorcism, very deep prayers to god (like some temple priests), etc., will be able to 'sense' these ghosts. For a normal person with healthy body and mind, it is only when fear engulfs him/her, that such apparitions will become 'visible' or 'detectible'.

.


Dear Sangom ji,

I have heard many times people saying that only those with a weak mind and body can "detect' ghosts.

But I beg to differ.

It could have actually have a genetic basis.

For example one needs to have a particular gene to smell cyanide.

Most people cant smell cyanide and it is odorless for them..those who have the gene to smell cyanide say it smells like bitter almonds.

So is the person who is able to smell cyanide weaker?

No isnt it?

Likewise may be there is some genetic explanation as why some can see Ghost and some cant.

Just like some people are normal color vision and some are color blind.

So majority are Ghost Blind and the minority are not Ghost Blind.

So who knows there might be a Ghost Gene Theory to rival the Vaagmi Gene theory!LOL
 

For a true believer of God and Rationalist, Ghost theory is nothing but hoax.


Same way an Atheist can also say..for a true rationalist..both God and Ghosts do not exists and nothing but hoax.

So can you tell me why you feel God can exists but a Ghost cant?

Isnt a Ghost just an Subtle body that is still hovering around?

What is a Pitr then?

They too are Subtle bodies isnt it?

Its just that they dont hang around to be detected.
 
"
Ghosts are, in my view, the "karma Sareera" of people who have died. We do not know the exact details but, roughly, the Karma Sareeras of people with extreme evil thoughts, extreme evil deeds, very high ego and ambitions (which could not be satisfied in their lifetime), people with great and intense desires whose lives were cut short by accident, murder, suicide etc., will have their Karma Sareeras not decaying and dissolving into "prakriti" or nature as easily and quickly as in the case of normal deaths. This phenomenon is very akin to some persons living just in "name's sake" condition for many years but not dying.

Usually, people with extremely evil designs and actions, young people getting killed suddenly (what we call unnatural death by weapons, poisoning, accidents, drowning, suicide, etc.), very egotistic and ambitious persons who might have died after reaching old age but had not got over their ego/ambitions, etc., are the causes of these so-called ghosts.

Going by the history of violence in this universe, there must be more ghosts than men, by now.

If animals are also included (coz they are also athma) then it could run into trillions... perhaps.
 
Same way an Atheist can also say..for a true rationalist..both God and Ghosts do not exists and nothing but hoax.

Yes. Naturally. Why do u have doubt? Rationalist will never accept the existence of God.

So can you tell me why you feel God can exists but a Ghost cant?

As long as there is no clear theory / proof how the earth is formed, people tend to believe it is the creation of God. Does God bring Ghost with him/her? In order to popularize Religion, ghost theory might have been created. In all Religions, Ghosts do play a role. In the Hollywood Dracula films, it is shown that Dracula can be controlled only by Cross. It is probably to make people to have more faith in the Religion.

Isnt a Ghost just an Subtle body that is still hovering around?

How can it be? The ghost, it is believed, is from a deceased person. But, after death and cremation or burial of dead body, where is the question of subtle body? Entire body either becomes ash or mixes with the soil after some time.

What is a Pitr then?
They too are Subtle bodies isnt it?
Its just that they dont hang around to be detected.

You mean Pitr is one form of ghost. Is it so? Does Pitr create any problem or do unwanted things, causing havoc in the family of the concerned?

Pitru is the deceased person, who may be in heaven or hell, according to his/her activities while alive, visiting the children's home every year on a designated day specified by Prohits to participate in the Shradha.

Since we have strong faith in God, importance is also given, knowingly or unknowingly, to the associated things surrounding God of which one is Ghost.
 
Elders say people are born under two signs. 1). deva gana, 2) Rakshasa gana. While ghosts won't appear to deva gana, those under rakshasa gana can see the ghosts.

Surprisingly those born under deva gana can neither see the God!
 
you mean pitr is one form of ghost. Is it so? Does pitr create any problem or do unwanted things, causing havoc in the family of the concerned?

Pitru is the deceased person, who may be in heaven or hell, according to his/her activities while alive, visiting the children's home every year on a designated day specified by prohits to participate in the shradha.

Since we have strong faith in god, importance is also given, knowingly or unknowingly, to the associated things surrounding god of which one is ghost.


holy ghost!
 
Dear Sangom ji,

I have heard many times people saying that only those with a weak mind and body can "detect' ghosts.

But I beg to differ.

It could have actually have a genetic basis.

For example one needs to have a particular gene to smell cyanide.

Most people cant smell cyanide and it is odorless for them..those who have the gene to smell cyanide say it smells like bitter almonds.

So is the person who is able to smell cyanide weaker?

No isnt it?

Likewise may be there is some genetic explanation as why some can see Ghost and some cant.

Just like some people are normal color vision and some are color blind.

So majority are Ghost Blind and the minority are not Ghost Blind.

So who knows there might be a Ghost Gene Theory to rival the Vaagmi Gene theory!LOL

Smt. Renuka,

May be there is a gene as you say, but for those who do not have this gene, it is the experience of elders that people with a nervous debilitation are more prone to feel/detect ghosts. IMO, the two are not contradictory until genetics proves that those lacking the GG cannot feel the presence of ghosts.
 
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