Are relationships still considered sacrosanct?

[sravna]

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I wanted to share my views on the really sad state of affairs of relationships that seem to exist between people today.

Let me first start with the disclaimer that I think even in olden days there could not have been a state of perfect harmony existing in relationships. But there definitely was attached importance and significance to many of them. Mother, Father and Guru were people unconditionally worthy of respect. This and other thoughts were etched into the minds of the people as something they need to follow. So even when the actual nature of the people revolted against this ethic they did not dare to show it in the open. I now see how important is for this restraint be inculcated into the people.


The standards in relationships today have fallen to an abysmally low level in India compared to the yesteryears. The reason the standards have fallen dramatically is because, the sacredness of relationships has been allowed to be flouted. It has reached its logical conclusion of one feeling no guilt in making one's parents stay in old age homes, or no qualms for not being faithful to one's spouse and so on.

Coming to marriage, is marriage still considered sacrosanct in India ? I think sadly that seems to be a thing of the past. Indian youth have taken to the ideas of the west when it comes to a relationship with the opposite sex. I do not even want to mention the alternative. Affairs before marriage is more a rule than an exception. Emotional attachment rarely exists between partners in any marriage.

There have been so many discussions on how the tambrahm boys of marriageable age are short of tambrahm girls. The reason seems to be that the girls are marrying out of the community. If this is blasphemous to the old timers, I wonder how they cope up with the truths about the way the sacredness of the relationship between a man and a woman are vitiated these days.


This vitiation of relationship does not bode good for the society. People are more or less the same when it came to the real nature always but what differentiates present India from the past is that people in the past recognized the danger of flouting certain things openly. I think it is really foolish to grant licence to something that will have a negative impact on the society. It stops the important factor of guilt from working.

It is sad the direction Indian youth is allowed to take. Unless we wake up to this insidious problem, the rot will set in really firmly.

 

[biswa]

Sravnaji,

As always, you have raised deep existential questions. However I would not despair, because these are all part of natural evolution. We tend to paint the "good old days" in a golden hue, but really everything was not always so great then. For example a man could have 2 or 3 wives and even a few mistresses on the side, and that was considered a proper accomplishment. Whoever bats an eyelid when reading that Lord Rama's father had 3 wives.

Call it western influence or call it progress, some things have changed for the better. Valmiki wrote about the great King Dasaratha but he didnt write about how his wives felt sharing their husband's affection. Modern women expect more and rightfully so. Modern men have to adjust their expectations: for example I have never expected my wife to serve me tea or coffee and she has not obliged either.

So this will go on, there will be conflicts, but time will not stop. Whatever happens in the future, the past is not going to come back.

 

[v arun kumar]

Having said that, its equally astonishing to see the degree of changes in society in the last 100 years, I don't suppose that such massive changes would have occurred during any particular time in history, led to changes in the science, technology, industries, and thereby leading the massive change in livestyle.

what little was left was completed with the coming of Age of IT, spewing massing migration of jobs and people.

so the changes that one sees today are unlike any seen in the last 1,000 years of existence, we wont be able to see what happens finaly, but human mind understands and relates to experiences, of things which it has never known, it can hardly comprehend. like a child orphaned at birth will never know the true meaning of a mother, or a sister etc. children born in Siberia, never miss the weekly fix of vettai khoumbu, that we prepare, nor the vist to the temple .

so lets not rue the loss of culture, the children will like only the way of life which they experience during childhood, a child brought up in the US may never appreciate the finer points of life in Chennai. and so on.

life is only a illusion as experienced by us, and the movie goes on, to each his own hue, to each his own flavour, and live goes on.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

Just yesterday one of my friends was having a conversation with me..he said that "technically there is no father, mother, spouse, sibling,child etc..everyone of us "fell" into the trap of believing that everything is real and get worked up about everything.We come to the world solely to do our duty and obligation to everyone and when its time to go..we go alone"

My friend is also a doctor..not a realized soul but someone who thinks deeply most of the while and he leads a perfectly balanced happy life with spouse,parents and kids and extremely rich and also a does massive charity.

On technical grounds he is right..cos his words echo what our scriptures have been saying all this while.

Now coming to all types of relationship...it is always better to be nice to everyone and do our duty as per the rules and regulations we know best..surely as humans we expect some amount of reciprocal reaction from the people we love..but the mistake most of us make is expecting people to meet our standard of expected "love".

Some of us are loving and affectionate by nature and expect the people whom we love to respond to us like how we respond to them but actually this is not possible cos everyone reacts differently to us..be it father,mother,spouse,sibling,child,friend..etc... so the best is be happy as long we do our duty right and show them the required love.

For me when I am too happy or when I am too sad I always remind myself these words of Shankara so that I come back to middle path of emotions again:


Na Taato Na Maataa Na Bandhur-Na Daataa
Na Putro Na Putrii Na Bhrtyo Na Bhartaa |
Na Jaayaa Na Vidyaa Na Vrttir-Mama-Iva
Gatis-Tvam Gatis-Tvam Tvam-Ekaa Bhavaani ||1||

Meaning:
1.1: Neither the Father, nor the Mother; Neither the Relation and Friend, nor the Donor,
1.2: Neither the Son, nor the Daughter; Neither the Servant, nor the Husband,
1.3: Neither the Wife, nor the (worldly) Knowledge; Neither my Profession,
1.4:You are my Refuge, You Alone are my Refuge, Oh Mother Bhavani.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear renus,

you just reminded me of a poem by khalil gibran

On Children
Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

 

[tbs]

hi sravana,

relationship itself a trap....may be according to your brahma sutra...ITS MAAYA.....i wont call it illusion.....every relationship

comes with " I" or " WE".....so without I and ME ....then LOKAHA SAMASTHA SUKINO BHAVANTHU......TVA MEVA

SARVAM MAMA DEVA DEVA.....LIKE TUBHYA,EVA SAMARPAYETH......

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka, Shri TBS,

Both of you are talking about the end stage. For that we have to not travel in the opposite direction. That is what I was trying to say.

 

[rishikesan]

There is no solution. W e have to only witness s the changes ,realising the fact that we have no role including similar situation knocking our doors.
Rishikesan

 

[sangom]

I wanted to share my views on the really sad state of affairs of relationships that seem to exist between people today.

Let me first start with the disclaimer that I think even in olden days there could not have been a state of perfect harmony existing in relationships. But there definitely was attached importance and significance to many of them. Mother, Father and Guru were people unconditionally worthy of respect. This and other thoughts were etched into the minds of the people as something they need to follow. So even when the actual nature of the people revolted against this ethic they did not dare to show it in the open. I now see how important is for this restraint be inculcated into the people.


The standards in relationships today have fallen to an abysmally low level in India compared to the yesteryears. The reason the standards have fallen dramatically is because, the sacredness of relationships has been allowed to be flouted. It has reached its logical conclusion of one feeling no guilt in making one's parents stay in old age homes, or no qualms for not being faithful to one's spouse and so on.

Coming to marriage, is marriage still considered sacrosanct in India ? I think sadly that seems to be a thing of the past. Indian youth have taken to the ideas of the west when it comes to a relationship with the opposite sex. I do not even want to mention the alternative. Affairs before marriage is more a rule than an exception. Emotional attachment rarely exists between partners in any marriage.

There have been so many discussions on how the tambrahm boys of marriageable age are short of tambrahm girls. The reason seems to be that the girls are marrying out of the community. If this is blasphemous to the old timers, I wonder how they cope up with the truths about the way the sacredness of the relationship between a man and a woman are vitiated these days.


This vitiation of relationship does not bode good for the society. People are more or less the same when it came to the real nature always but what differentiates present India from the past is that people in the past recognized the danger of flouting certain things openly. I think it is really foolish to grant licence to something that will have a negative impact on the society. It stops the important factor of guilt from working.

It is sad the direction Indian youth is allowed to take. Unless we wake up to this insidious problem, the rot will set in really firmly.

Dear Shri Sravna,

When you call the olden days as 'golden' probably what works behind the scenes is a state of affairs when the society had a very big say in the lives, actions and thought processes of the individuals and, at the same time, it was a very very male dominated world—more starkly in the tabra community.

These have practically disappeared today due to the very many changes brought about by time. Today's society is highly individualistic and the individual counts maximum, and the society comes only as a secondary attachment. To an individual in some of the developed countries, I am told that a life purely as an individual with very little contact or interaction with other people, is now possible.

Relationship counted much as long as people did not know how to stop pregnancy and, at the same time, to enjoy sex. Modern science has been able to delink these two vital aspects of human life and much of the societal changes we witness today is a fall out from that achievement of science. Even primary school children today know that children are not brought by the old stork-visit; just last night I saw one small boy, about 4 years old, telling the anchor woman in a TV programme who asked him (that boy) why people marry, that marriage helps one to "sleep comfortably; dad can sleep over mummy but if mummy sleeps over dad, his bones will be broken and he would become "Chatni"! I am recounting this just as a sample of how 'open' households seem to have become.

When importance shifts from societal conformity to individual choices, all the changes which you mention in your OP are bound to happen. Though I will very much prefer to now live in the old, male-dominated and society-controlled kind of set-up now, in my very old stage of life, I do remember well that in my younger days I did feel uncomfortable with those very same things and had yearned for more powers to individual choices & decisions. Hence, these changes, good or bad, are here to stay and grow further perhaps and there is no point in lamenting about these.

Society is like clay. It will mould itself according to the changes brought about by those who constitute the society and in my limited personal view, the society itself is neutral - neither bad nor good - at all times; it is our evaluation of society which makes it appear good or bad.

The gradual loss of 'relationships', neglect/discarding of parents & old people, pre-marital sex, lack of fidelity between husband & wife, and so on will last for some time till a new set of changes takes over. In the ultimate analysis nothing will be able to stop these developments from happening. There is no point in yearning for the good old days to stage a comeback.

My only observation is that all the emphasis and importance that is being regularly given to the scriptures, old customs & traditions, etc., etc., in this forum are all of no use to the younger generations. But this stark truth is not yet realized by many of the members. It is high time that this forum discussed what kind of religious set-up is required by the new generation of tabras instead of trying to vigorously market the old stock which have long passed their expiry date.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom, Shri Arun Kumar, Biswa

Thanks for your views. Changes are inevitable with time and many are even welcome. But not all of them are desirable and I think it is necessary to check such undesirable changes from taking roots.

Shri Sangom, it is almost impossible to predict the impact and the changes technology and science can bring to the society. May be it can really improve the quality of life of the people. I wish it does. But we need to be wary of embracing all technology unconditionally and without deliberation on its long term impact on improving the happiness and quality of life of the people.

 

[sarang]

In the early days of computer programming, we had to define in the beginning 'constants' and 'variables' as a good programming practice to avoid getting lost when the program gets complex. So in our culture and civilization too, there are constants and variables, and plenty of scriptural references and guidelines how to plan and order our lives.

What to do in many instances has past references, but how to do keeps changing. Samskarams are to be observed, in spirit and action - but method and duration may change with time and place.

Mass observation of mahalaya amavasya was done in several places in chennai; our servant maid took leave and advance to participate with full shraddha and devotion. Many still do aksharabhyasam and school admission on saraswati puja day; some schools had made arrangements for the ceremony. TV showed long queues of young adults, male and female, carrying ipads and laptops and smart phones for puja and blessings in various temples.

Sanatana dharma is unique in the sense, it has a well developed philosophy (theory) and extensive rituals to involve and satisfy all sections of hindus. No devout hindu will ever make fun of or speak lightly of vedanta, vigraha worship or rituals.

We have a rich tradition, a vast scriptural and practical platform to cater to the intellectual, spiritual, mental and worldly needs. Hindu baiters, atheists, agnostics can only nimble like rats at the periphery and will only get more desperate and violent.

Basics and foundation are very deep and strong. It is the duty of the elders to practice to the extent possible and expose the younger generation to the treasure scriptures, vaidika karmas and rituals. There is no point in worrying about their strict or lax or no practice; they will go in the direction their karma points to.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka, Shri TBS,

Both of you are talking about the end stage. For that we have to not travel in the opposite direction. That is what I was trying to say.

Dear Sravna,

I do not feel it is the end stage..sometimes in life anything can be felt at any stage.

Tell me frankly if a relationship does not work out the way we would like it too why should we get affected too much...I do agree initially we might feel screwed but after a while the human mind adapts to a situation and takes charge of life again.

I will give you a simple example..the human adaptation of the eye to darkness.

Ok just say we are walking into a very dark room..initially we see only darkness cos our eyes havent adapted to the darkness yet and after a while we are able to see a bit with whatever faint light which is outside from anywhere.

Same with the human emotions..initially when we face a situation we might feel bad..depressed etc..then adaptation comes in and we learn to cope with the situation.

I do not think such thinking of adaptation is considered end stage..even when I was in my 20's I used to think like how I think now when I have a situation...I have a mental check list.

When I was too happy or too sad..this is how I think a Q and A with my own self..

Q 1)Why are you getting too happy or too sad now?

A: I am too happy cos...../ I am too sad cos....


2)Do you really think this phase will last forever?

A: No


3)Then why are you getting too involved in the situation?

A: Yes..dumb of me.


4)(If I am facing a sad/bad situation)..Are you going to die becos of this?

A: No


5)Do you think you can be your normal self after sometime?

A: Yes..let me enjoy the extreme happiness or cry becos of sadness and then be back to normal after a while.



So you see Sravna...this is how my mind worked at 20 and even now.

It is not end stage thinking but it is just survival instincts.

 

[sravna]

Hindu baiters, atheists, agnostics can only nimble like rats at the periphery and will only get more desperate and violent.

Basics and foundation are very deep and strong.

Beautifully said. Very true indeed

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

What I am saying is give a relationship the respect it deserves and it will not get screwed. It is totally up to you to maintain a relationship and it is totally up to you to screw a relationship too. Why don't you want to do the former? Then you do not have to worry about coping up with the failure or adapting in any way. For that the basic requirement is the intent to maintain the relationship. That's what I am saying people do not do these days.

 

[sravna]

One very important effect that your intent to maintain a relationship has is that it helps your mind to mature because it promotes the attitude of give and take. On the other hand if the society is geared towards the individual it only aids your ego and that I know is bad.

 

[Raji Ram]

This song was in a movie "Pazhani" in 1965!!

annan ennada thambi ennada


One of the comments found in this link:

'I read some where - As every one knows that Kannadasan consumes alcohol and one day he was short of money to buy

his brand and phoned his brother asking for money; his brother screamed and refused to give money. On the same day

a producer and director met Kannadasan to pen a song on the money issue between brothers in the movie - That is how

the song "annan ennada thambi ennada" was born.'

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

What I am saying is give a relationship the respect it deserves and it will not get screwed. It is totally up to you to maintain a relationship and it is totally up to you to screw a relationship too. Why don't you want to do the former? Then you do not have to worry about coping up with the failure or adapting in any way. For that the basic requirement is the intent to maintain the relationship. That's what I am saying people do not do these days.

Dear Sravna,

Since you and I both believe in Karma may be the screwed up situation is just a Karmic lesson for us humans to realize that nothing in the world remains the same.

If everything is too smooth sailing in life we also tend to drown in the enjoyment.

If I could rewind my life I will still choose the same life with no changes in between..I would still want to go through all the pleasant and unpleasant experiences I faced cos those are the experiences that shaped my mind today.

I feel if we have the feeling of surrender to God..we wont be too affected by things not working out..for me its simple..I wont run away from my duties towards everyone in my life..but if they do not know how to maintain what I give them..the loss is theirs not mine..cos I did not swerve from my duties.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

A perfect relationship between spouses should be like this...

An Advaita Love Story:




You are my Brahman and you are my Maya

You are real as in Brahman and ever changing like Maya

Ever changing Love that grows day by day...never Laya

Therefore you are my Brahman,Maya and my Advaita.

 

[Nara]

Beautifully said. Very true indeed

sravna, where you find beauty is your business, but I am really surprise that you found it in this quote from my dear brother sarang:

Hindu baiters, atheists, agnostics can only nimble like rats at the periphery and will only get more desperate and violent.
Basics and foundation are very deep and strong.

It is one thing to sing the praise of your own tradition, but for your pride to be complete do you have to make nasty comments about those who disagree? And to find beauty in this is strange.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sravna,

A perfect relationship between spouses should be like this...

An Advaita Love Story:




You are my Brahman and you are my Maya

You are real as in Brahman and ever changing like Maya

Ever changing Love that grows day by day...never Laya

Therefore you are my Brahman,Maya and my Advaita.

And then sing கனாக்கண்டேனடி கனாக்கண்டேனடி (kanaakandenadi kanaakandenadi) song. Advaitam is indeed very handy. They can even add this. Husband to wife: when I shouted at you it was all maya. When you took the rolling pin in hand it was again maya. When we kissed and made up it was universal conciousness which we experienced together. LOL.

 

[sangom]

< snipped >

It is one thing to sing the praise of your own tradition, but for your pride to be complete do you have to make nasty comments about those who disagree? And to find beauty in this is strange.

Because the said person is very diffident about whatever blah, blah he repeatedly writes about samskaaram, traditions, basics and so on. One thing is for sure, however — the writer will do well to have a lot more samskaaram (refinement, culture) to become a normal human being.

Shri Sravna possibly has admiration for such people with hypo-samskaaram condition!

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

This is a feeling that many people in the older generation have. Loss of values. This feeling is not restricted to a particular caste, religion or nationality. It runs across all religions. Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Jews. it is called Family values and Christian values by Readers Digest. I would call it Universal values. For example Respect for elders is a Universal value and emphasized by all religions. These are values which are not dependent on any tradition.

All religions value marriage. Marriage is valued by every one including Atheists, agnostics, and people who do not believe in religion.

Inter-caste marriage does not bring down the value of marriage. From my personal experience I find that the non-Brahmins value marriage more than the Brahmins.

Divorces do not mean that people do not value marriage. Divorced people get married again. Divorce has only ensured that men and women do not have to put up with unhappy marriages for their whole lives. Marriage does not become a life long torture.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

A very old quotation. Who said it?

Socrates.

 

[sravna]

sravna, where you find beauty is your business, but I am really surprise that you found it in this quote from my dear brother sarang:



It is one thing to sing the praise of your own tradition, but for your pride to be complete do you have to make nasty comments about those who disagree? And to find beauty in this is strange.

Sorry if that sounded nasty. I just wanted to agree with the substance of what was said. I truly believe in that.