Being A Tamil

[ShivKC]

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being a tamil, to be identified as a Tamil, is something the need of this day, when one wants to attest his TB identity. and this identity maintenance is all in ones own hand, not in DMK,reservation,periyar et all.

Its all about claiming great about identifying close to an ancient classic heritage language of 60 million mass, than compared to the dead spiritual language Sanskrit.i ts all about getting close to the 6Kodi tamil makkal. Any problem here? After all, the best tamil literatures were scripted by TB's. Why one is feeling alienated, or why the tamil majority is not bothered about alienating their own brethren (En Thamizh Iname!) ?

I expect VIshalaksmi's active participation here.

 

[sangom]

being a tamil, to be identified as a Tamil, is something the need of this day, when one wants to attest his TB identity. and this identity maintenance is all in ones own hand, not in DMK,reservation,periyar et all.

Its all about claiming great about identifying close to an ancient classic heritage language of 60 million mass, than compared to the dead spiritual language Sanskrit.i ts all about getting close to the 6Kodi tamil makkal. Any problem here? After all, the best tamil literatures were scripted by TB's. Why one is feeling alienated, or why the tamil majority is not bothered about alienating their own brethren (En Thamizh Iname!) ?

I expect VIshalaksmi's active participation here.

Shri Shiv,

This point has come for consideration in other threads also, I think. As tambrams, we all should have no problem in communicating in Tamil, but the ability to understand classical or even learned Tamil may not be possessed by many tambrams, especially youngsters who were born and brought up outside TN. At the same time as brams we may not be able to alienate ourselves from a knowledge of Sanskrit which is the language of our religious lore. More than all these you will find just below the forum logo, the sentence "Brahmin community spread across the entire globe". Kindly note that the forum, therefore, open to all brahmins, not only those who know Tamil. Hence you may consult Shri Praveen and find out whether and how far Tamizh will be appropriate for this forum.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr.ShivKC,

Right on time to accept your sincere invitation!

First of all I want to clarify two things before we go deeper into the issues pointed out by you.

Firstly my name is vi-saa-laa-kshi.

Secondly Sanskrit will never die! Even if we Indians foolishly forsake the language, it will still live in the other parts of the world like Germany. They know the worth of our languages more than we do!

There is nothing to beat the brevity of Sanskrit. To explain two lines in Sanskrit we need two paras (if not two pages) of English. Probably it was made that way so that it would be easier to memorize the whole book (since there were no printed books in those days).

To maintain one's identity one should feel proud of it. Otherwise we will only try to conceal or camouflage our real identities by imitating the others whom we admire!

I won't give the entire credit of Tamil literature to tam brams. There were writers from different castes and even different religions.

Linguistic experts like Mr. Sangom, Mr. Nara, Mr.Pannvalan and
Mr. Brahmanyan (and many others whose names I may not be familiar with) must enter this thread - to share their valuable knowledge and views with us- their less informed brothers and sisters.

Hoping to see enthusiastic exchange of knowledge and interesting information in this thread.:welcome:

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[ShivKC]

. At the same time as brams we may not be able to alienate ourselves from a knowledge of Sanskrit which is the language of our religious lore.

How about calling ourselves as SanskritBrahmins.com?

More than all these you will find just below the forum logo, the sentence "Brahmin community spread across the entire globe". Kindly note that the forum, therefore, open to all brahmins, not only those who know Tamil

.

May be, its open for all brahmins, but out here the subject I'm curious is TAMIL identity and the natural tendency of a TB's alienation from the tamil society.



H[/QUOTE]

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

We can call ourselves Sanskrit brahmins if we all are well versed in Sanskrit.

Till then No chance!

 

[Iyer]

being a tamil, to be identified as a Tamil, is something the need of this day, when one wants to attest his TB identity. and this identity maintenance is all in ones own hand, not in DMK,reservation,periyar et all.

Its all about claiming great about identifying close to an ancient classic heritage language of 60 million mass, than compared to the dead spiritual language Sanskrit.i ts all about getting close to the 6Kodi tamil makkal. Any problem here? After all, the best tamil literatures were scripted by TB's. Why one is feeling alienated, or why the tamil majority is not bothered about alienating their own brethren (En Thamizh Iname!) ?

I expect VIshalaksmi's active participation here.

Let us be Human Beings first. And aspire to be Human Beings Last. Let Tamil, for that matter any language, be perceived as a means for communication and let language not be our identity. However whatever language we speak, let us use the most refined flavor and accent of that language. Let us appreciate the literature in other languages also.

After all we did not choose to be born with Tamil as mother tongue. It was imposed on us. But we pretend as if even before birth we were offered a choice and that we chose to be born to speak Tamil as mother tongue. This is so with other linguistic groups also. Let our pride spring forth from the fact that we are Human Beings and that we are continually evolving into more and more civilized ones in that, unlike other species. Let us love every other person, regardless of color, race, ethnicity, language, religion, caste, region etc, as we love our own selves. The world will be a heaven to live then.

With Love,
Iyer

 

[saarangam]

IMO the tag Tamzhbrahmins refers to the brahmin community whose mother tongue is thamizh.I believe even the members of this community settled abroad use Thamizh in their
conversation.In the same way there are Malayali brahmins whose mother tongue is Malayalam,
Kannada brahmins, Telugu brahmins etc. All of them learn the vedas, mantras etc in sanskrit.
I have heard that there is a group of brahmins in Mysore who use Sanskrit for day today conversation.They may be rightly called Sanskrit brahmins.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

My dear Mr. Iyer,

Are you the same Mr. Iyer who took a 'vow to speak brahmin Tamil'?

Or are there two persons by the same name?

We are not given a choice to select our parents, place of birth, language etc - since

we had already made the choice in our previous births.

Even a caterpillar leaves its hold on one leaf, only after catching hold of another

leaf! Are we not superior to them and don't we decide by our actions in one janmA

what we want to be in the next?

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[suraju06]

being a tamil, to be identified as a Tamil, is something the need of this day, when one wants to attest his TB identity. and this identity maintenance is all in ones own hand, not in DMK,reservation,periyar et all.

Its all about claiming great about identifying close to an ancient classic heritage language of 60 million mass, than compared to the dead spiritual language Sanskrit.i ts all about getting close to the 6Kodi tamil makkal. Any problem here? After all, the best tamil literatures were scripted by TB's. Why one is feeling alienated, or why the tamil majority is not bothered about alienating their own brethren (En Thamizh Iname!) ?

I expect VIshalaksmi's active participation here.

It appears Shiv is deeply influenced by those who think love for tamil means abusing/deriding Sanskrit. There are many Tamil enthusiasts who do that. We need not do that. For us Tamil as well as Sanskrit are rich languages. They are both useful to communicate. In every situation Tamil need not be juxtaposed to Sanskrit. When I read the lines "செம்புலப்பெயல் நீர் போல அன்புடை நெஞ்சம் தாம் கலந்தனவே" or "எங்கேயும் கரை காணாது எறிகடல் வாய் மீண்டேயும் வங்கத்தின் கூம்பு ஏறும் மாப்பறவை போன்றேனே " or "தீக்குள் விரலை வைத்தால் நந்தலாலா நின்னை தீண்டும் இன்பம் தோன்றுதடா நந்த லாலா " i am deeply impressed by the power of expression in the language. Similarly when I read the line " பாதம் கால கிரமேண ச" or " தேசிகம் பூஷ்ணுர் ஈப்சேத்" I am impressed by the brevity and beauty of expression of the language. Language being a tool for communication and the transaction takes place only in a linear mode, brevity without sacrificing the richness of the content is certainly a desirable characteristic of a language.

There is absolutely no alienation. I think TBs never forget their mother tongue wherever they go. They always speak tamil at home. May be because of the tyranny of the circumstances, they are unable to learn to read and write the language. But their love for tamil is not separable from them. So there is no need to lament.

TBs are always careful about one aspect. They would never subsribe to the theory of using Tamil to instigate separatism or to unleash a hatred campaign based on narrow loyalties and parochialism. They are Indians, Tamils and brahmins only in that order.

 

[Raghy]

being a tamil, to be identified as a Tamil, is something the need of this day, when one wants to attest his TB identity. and this identity maintenance is all in ones own hand, not in DMK,reservation,periyar et all.

Its all about claiming great about identifying close to an ancient classic heritage language of 60 million mass, than compared to the dead spiritual language Sanskrit.i ts all about getting close to the 6Kodi tamil makkal. Any problem here? After all, the best tamil literatures were scripted by TB's. Why one is feeling alienated, or why the tamil majority is not bothered about alienating their own brethren (En Thamizh Iname!) ?

I expect VIshalaksmi's active participation here.

Sri.Shiv,

Greetings. Sow.Visalakshi Ramani is one of the right persons to elobarate on this matter; The contribution from Sow.Visalakshi Ramani speak for themselves.

If I were you, I will not pay any attention to politically motivated entities like DMK, Ramasamy Naicker et al. If you feel you are a Tamizhan, there ends the matter. You need not get approval from anyone for that. Always remember, no one can stop you from speaking in Tamizh. Only when you seek approval from someone, you leave yourself vulnerable for rejection. But when you make a claim, if others are required to disprove you, they find themselves they can't justifiably disprove your claims.

Sanskrit is not a dead language. It is alive and it is vibrant. I may not understand it, but I like the sound of it. (I love Arabic language too for its sound). Of course, there are scholars here, who are well versed with both Tamizh and Sanskrit. They will be able to provide a much learned picture about Tamizh and Sanskrit.

You are right; one's own identity is in their own hands.

Cheers!

 

[Brahmanyan]

being a tamil, to be identified as a Tamil, is something the need of this day, when one wants to attest his TB identity. and this identity maintenance is all in ones own hand, not in DMK,reservation,periyar et all.

Its all about claiming great about identifying close to an ancient classic heritage language of 60 million mass, than compared to the dead spiritual language Sanskrit.i ts all about getting close to the 6Kodi tamil makkal. Any problem here? After all, the best tamil literatures were scripted by TB's. Why one is feeling alienated, or why the tamil majority is not bothered about alienating their own brethren (En Thamizh Iname!) ?

I expect VIshalaksmi's active participation here.

Sri Shiv KC,

First let me clarify that Sanskrit is not a dead spiritual Language. Instead I would say it is a treasure trove of knowledge. The meaning of Samskritham is "Refined" or "Sanctified" language. (செம்மைப்படுத்தப்பட்ட - செம்மொழி) The syllables (not letters) in Sanskrit are called "Akshara" meaning , that which does not perish at all - which is eternal. As Smt. Visalakshi Ramani had put it "brevity" is the beauty of that language. Many other languages in India and far east are born from Sanskrit. For that matter it is my view that no language is a dead language. If we do not understand the use of a language it does not mean that language is dead.

I am born to a Tamil Brahmin parents. Tamil is the language that my mother taught me along with feeding milk when I was a child. I love my mother and mother tongue. She also taught me that as a Brahmin I should gather knowledge from all sides, and never to show hatred towards any language.

Yes, Tamil Brahmins have played important role by contributing a lot to the language from the days of
Nayanmars and Alwars or even before. Recently I read the Autobiography of U.V.Swaminatha Aiyar, who was revered as தமிழ் தாத்தா, who had spent his entire life for Tamil language and literature and gathered more than 3,000 manuscripts mostly in palm leaf, from all corners of Tamil Nadu, otherwise which would have been lost for ever. He was respected for his knowledge by scholars from all communities during his time. Some years ago I attended a Saiva Siddhantha meet, where I met many scholars from Brahmin Community. I did not find any alienation of the community. Let us not judge any thing by Political response.

Let us continue to be what we are "a Tamil Brahmin".

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

The ability to speak the combination of consonants two, three and even four at times, is really great. It adds a special value to the voice. Tongue twisters will not be tongue twister any more for those well versed in Sanskrit.
Most of the ancient languages and the four south Indian languages have their roots in Sanskrit. It is an undeniable fact. Hindi, like English accepted random words from other languages- especially from Urdu - and became Hindustani!

 

[R. Ramanujan]

reply

Sanskrit will never die! Even if we Indians foolishly forsake the language, it will still live in the other parts of the world like Germany. They know the worth of our languages more than we do!

There is nothing to beat the brevity of Sanskrit. To explain two lines in Sanskrit we need two paras (if not two pages) of English. Probably it was made that way so that it would be easier to memorize the whole book (since there were no printed books in those days).

good point VR mam. I think sanskrit is compulsory in Germany.

To maintain one's identity one should feel proud of it. Otherwise we will only try to conceal or camouflage our real identities by imitating the others whom we admire!

One should ask the value of a thing to a person who is deprived of that thing. I sometimes feel we take it for granted esp when we are in majority. Look at how hindus in Pakistan cling on to their traditions in a largely islamic society. Their determination is so inspiring even though living in constant fear.

I won't give the entire credit of Tamil literature to tam brams. There were writers from different castes and even different religions.

That's absolutely right. Infact Tamil language earlier was popularised by christian missionaries in the west. Plus tamil muslims have made tremendous contribution in this regard.

 

[R. Ramanujan]

Most of the ancient languages and the four south Indian languages have their toots in Sanskrit.

I don't think tamil came from Sanskrit itself. Tamil Mozhi is an institution in itself but it has been influenced by sanskrit eg like abhiprayam.

It is an undeniable fact. Hindi, like English accepted random words from other languages- especially from Urdu - and became Hindustani!

No mam Sanskrit gave birth to Hindi. And Moghuls formed a new language by mixing Persian and Hindi, They called Urdu.
Now Urdu and Hindi differ only in higher vocabulary and script. Former uses arabic whereas latter uses devanagari.
Common words are many. This language of using common words from hindi and urdu is called hindustani which Nehru termed as national language of common people. But English is working language.
Urdu came after Hindi.

Eg a word is trust has many words--- vishvaas in hindi and bharosa, aetbaar in urdu.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. R.R.
I only said that Hindi got corrupted by the mixture of Urdu words.
I never said the Hindi was not born of Sanskrit!
Almost all the Indian languages have abundant of Sanskrit words.
I did not know that Sanskrit was compulsory in Germany.
(Hope you are not pulling my legs now!)
with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[R. Ramanujan]

@ VR mam.
mam I would prefer influenced/diluted instead of corrupted. Since Hindi is still spoken in pure Sanskritised form in large parts of North. Infact Hindustani is spoken only in cities which are I guess 20% of area.
Some people prefer hindustani instead of hindi. common vocab in Hindi+Urdu are father of Hindustani.
Most people know the differences b/w hindi and hindustani. Infact many hindus whose mother tongue is hindi speak in hindi rather in hindustani.

Mam I used the words,"I think sanskrit is compulsory in germany".
So myself not that sure. I heard it from a lady who teaches sanskrit at school level in Srirangam.

Mam you also said that Hindi took words from Urdu which is factually wrong. Since urdu's father was Hindi+Persian(farsi).
But later many urdu words were mixed with hindi and the language evolved is Hindustani.
Infact you should have said that urdu took base words from Hindi and developed its own higer vocab with the help of farsi.

One more country where sanskrit is given some importance is Greece.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. R.R,
For a person who was not allowed to learn Hindi in school, the knowledge will be very limited. So Hindi gave birth to Urdu and again it adopted Urdu words in it.
Am I right now?
with best wishes,
V.R.
P.S.
But later many urdu words were mixed with hindi and the language evolved is Hindustani.
Is not this what I too had said??