Bipolarity of Religion

[renuka]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

I happened to read online about Rules and Regulations of Gayatri Japam and was just wondering why for every act there is something in religious text which negates that.

It's like Panini's Sutras..for each Defining Sutra there is a Negation Sutra which renders the Defining Sutra null and void.

Ok let me get to the point..take a look at this which I am sure many of you would be familiar with:

Things to be Avoided during Japam:


While doing Japam one should not talk with others; see things around you; laugh about something; support your back on Pillars etc; rest one leg on top of the other, lose interest; think of something else; yawn, keep spitting. Such Japams will become fruitless. If one happens to yawn, sneeze in between the Japam, then one should touch your nose then touch the ear while chanting 'Om'. This is called as the 'Shrothra Aachamanam'. Or even if one sees the Sun or the Moon that is enough.
One should not see dog, pig, donkey, underprivileged person, woman on menstruation, eagle, and monkey while doing the Japam. If one happens to see the above, follow the above suggestion. The reason that people often have their Japa Mantapam in the river or in the banks is to avoid seeing all those mentioned above.

Ok now lets get to the points:

Here it says that one should not see a dog/pig/underprivileged person.

But then the Shloka from the Geeta negates this when it says :

​

​

The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].

Also to add..Dattatreya was always surrounded by dogs and Lord Shiva took the form of an outcaste holding 4 dogs to confront Adi Shankara.

The 4 dogs were representing the 4 Vedas. So is a dog could represent a Veda and be best of buddies with Dattatreya why is seeing a dog considered an No No while doing Gayatri Japa?

Now coming to our Porcine friend the Piggy.Lord Vishnu took the form of a Boar ..a close cousin of the domesticated pig...when Sriman Narayana could take the form of a Boar so why is seeing a piggy while doing Japa also forbidden.



Next is this:

So, one must be careful, so as, not to lose the benefits of the Japam

I have noted that benefits is always emphasized and not selflessness and full dedication and surrender to God.

Seeking benefits is preached but the Geeta verse "Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani" negates it.


In another thread...someone wrote that one should cover the hand with the upper garment during Gayatri Japam for fear that the Asura would steal the Phalam of the Japam.


This concept sounds so Abrahamic..to fear the evil/devil etc.

BTW then again this is negated by :

Om sarveshaam swastir bhavatu
Sarveshaam shantir bhavatu
Sarveshaam poornam bhavatu
Sarveshaam mangalam bhavatu
Sarve bhavantu sukhinah
Sarve santu niraamayaah
Sarve bhadraani pashyantu
Maakaschit duhkha bhaag bhavet
Meaning:
Auspiciousness (swasti) be unto all; peace (shanti) be unto all;
fullness (poornam) be unto all; prosperity (mangalam) be unto all.
May all be happy! (sukhinah)
May all be free from disabilities! (niraamayaah)
May all look (pashyantu)to the good of others!
May none suffer from sorrow! (duhkha)

You see if one actually get the Phalam of Japa and its actually "stolen" by the Asura..wont that Asura be transformed by the Phalam?Wont that benefit the world??

So why do we only wish good for ourselves but not for benefit of others but yet recite the above Shloka.


All these examples have made me wonder why there is so much Bipolarity in Hinduism.

That way to a certain extent Abrahamic Religions are Unipolar that is they think that they go to heaven and the Non Followers rot in hell..that does not change and they dont have "Negation Sutras" for each "Defining Sutra".

I would like feed back from members.

 

[ashwin_ash]

I happened to read online about Rules and Regulations of Gayatri Japam and was just wondering why for every act there is something in religious text which negates that.

It's like Panini's Sutras..for each Defining Sutra there is a Negation Sutra which renders the Defining Sutra null and void.

Ok let me get to the point..take a look at this which I am sure many of you would be familiar with:





Ok now lets get to the points:

Here it says that one should not see a dog/pig/underprivileged person.

But then the Shloka from the Geeta negates this when it says :

​

Also to add..Dattatreya was always surrounded by dogs and Lord Shiva took the form of an outcaste holding 4 dogs to confront Adi Shankara.

The 4 dogs were representing the 4 Vedas. So is a dog could represent a Veda and be best of buddies with Dattatreya why is seeing a dog considered an No No while doing Gayatri Japa?

Now coming to our Porcine friend the Piggy.Lord Vishnu took the form of a Boar ..a close cousin of the domesticated pig...when Sriman Narayana could take the form of a Boar so why is seeing a piggy while doing Japa also forbidden.



Next is this:




I have noted that benefits is always emphasized and not selflessness and full dedication and surrender to God.

Seeking benefits is preached but the Geeta verse "Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani" negates it.


In another thread...someone wrote that one should cover the hand with the upper garment during Gayatri Japam for fear that the Asura would steal the Phalam of the Japam.


This concept sounds so Abrahamic..to fear the evil/devil etc.

BTW then again this is negated by :




You see if one actually get the Phalam of Japa and its actually "stolen" by the Asura..wont that Asura be transformed by the Phalam?Wont that benefit the world??

So why do we only wish good for ourselves but not for benefit of others but yet recite the above Shloka.


All these examples have made me wonder why there is so much Bipolarity in Hinduism.

That way to a certain extent Abrahamic Religions are Unipolar that is they think that they go to heaven and the Non Followers rot in hell..that does not change and they dont have "Negation Sutras" for each "Defining Sutra".

I would like feed back from members.

There are no Unipolar or Bipolar disorders in Hinduism.

Repeating the verses from the Bhagavad Gita ad-nauseam does not explain any tenet of Hinduism in any which way. It is like teaching the alphabets to a pre-schooler.

Hinduism has *no* permanent Heaven or Hell.

Veda: Atharva Veda 12.4.36 and Sukla Yajur Veda 30.5 and Bhagavad Gita,1.41, 1.43, 16.16, 16.21: Naraka is a place where souls are sent for the expiation of their sins.

Yama, Lord of Justice, puts living beings after death for appropriate punishment, for example, in boiling oil. Even Mukti-yogyas (souls eligible for mukti or moksha, liberation), and Nitya-samsarins (forever transmigrating ones in Dvaita theology) can experience Naraka for expiation.

But,after the period of punishment is complete, they are reborn on earth in human or animal bodies.Therefore neither naraka nor svarga are permanent abodes.

Yama Loka is the abode of Lord Yama. It is not equivalent to the concept of Hell in Christianity and other religions, as Yama is also Dharmaraja or God of justice; it is a temporary purgatorium for sinners or papis.

To obtain miseries is Narak or Hell.we should stop believing that those who disagree with them will go to Hell and others will go to Heaven forever. They should be tolerant to all faiths and all people so far they are not criminals or nuisance creators. Compassion to ALL souls is necessary for getting Heaven here itself and then blessings of Iswara in Mukti or Moksha...!!

Regarding Devil, Hinduism does not recognize any central evil force or entity such as the Devil opposing God and man. Hinduism does recognize that different beings (asuras) and entities can perform evil acts, under the temporary dominance of the guna of tamas, and cause worldly sufferings.

The Rajasic and Tamasic Gunas of Maya are considered somewhat close to the Abrahamic concept , the hellish parts of the Ultimate Delusion called "Prakriti". An embodiment of this is the concept of Advaita (non-dualism) where there is no good or evil but simply different levels of realization..

 

[sravna]

I happened to read online about Rules and Regulations of Gayatri Japam and was just wondering why for every act there is something in religious text which negates that.

Dear Renuka,

There would be no negation. Only you have to interpret according to the context.

Here it says that one should not see a dog/pig/underprivileged person.

But then the Shloka from the Geeta negates this

this is actually not a negation because, the spiritual nature is the same for every entity according to Geeta but there is this physical form that is worn as a cloak. There are differences in that and thus the jivatma of one human being is different from that of the other. That could be the reason why such a rule is prescribed. Let me add that a fully evolved person doesn't see the external differences.But as you evolve you need to be wary of such differences because they provide you with opportunity and experiences for learning.

Next is this:

I have noted that benefits is always emphasized and not selflessness and full dedication and surrender to God.

Seeking benefits is preached but the Geeta verse "Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani" negates it.

One indeed needs to get benefits as only then he can improve his self and progress towards liberation. Anything done with that aim is ok.

Geeta doesn't really negate it. It only says do not focus on the result. That is becauseyou are being desirous then and that impedes your siritual progress. but if what you desire is spiritual progress then I think that is not forbidden.

In another thread...someone wrote that one should cover the hand with the upper garment during Gayatri Japam for fear that the Asura would steal the Phalam of the Japam.

I am not sure about this. But Asuras are not meant to be transformed that way. Evil and good both need to co-exist in this world.

 

[tks]

Dr Renu

Hinduism is a name given by outsiders to a 'way of life' that existed and continues to exist under this umbrella name.
There are traditions and practices that are not always rooted in universal principles but on key areas the diverse practices are woven together by strong fabric of sound reasoning.

While I do not want to debate the merits of all the quotes by Dr Radhakrishnan (former President of India) this link describes some of his well known quotes. They provide better description of Hinduism in my view.

I do not know much about the 'things to be avoided for Japa' - that is not how I learnt it.

For most areas you have cited there are no contradictions in my understanding and I think this forum is not a place for very long and detailed reply. Besides you may say you have limited attention span and will not read a response even if I found time to reply


Contradictions could exist in practices that have evolved over time and die over time. So what?

If the practices are based on universal principles then contradictions arise when our knowledge is superficial and do not have the big picture.

The first three sections of Vedas focusing on Upasana and Karma is completely negated by the last part - and that is on purpose. The teachings of B.Gita are based on teaching of the last part of Vedas. So one will find apparent contradictions with some practices.

Why bother to 'unify the different' - Hinduism as an umbrella religion does not demand or promotethat.

My suggestion is to adopt what makes sense to an individual and within the Umbrella term of Hinduism it will be all fine provided whatever adopted does not cause unnecessary harm to other beings.

In other words - Ahimsa Paramo Dharma (अहिंसा परमॊ धर्मः) is enough for most of us if we strive to follow the intent of the teaching.

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue:

Let me add that a fully evolved person doesn't see the external differences.But as you evolve you need to be wary of such differences because they provide you with opportunity and experiences for learning.

Sravna..that is why I am saying its Bipolar..you see one is expected to see differences at the extent of being inhumane but when he is spiritually evolved he is supposed to see everything as the same...doesnt make sense right??
Only 1 person went into reverse direction..Adi Shankara..at the age of 8 he sang Na Me Mrutyu Shanka Na Me Jati Beda..Chidananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham but as an adult he asked the outcaste to get out of his way! Strange!



One indeed needs to get benefits as only then he can improve his self and progress towards liberation. Anything done with that aim is ok.

Geeta doesn't really negate it. It only says do not focus on the result. That is becauseyou are being desirous then and that impedes your siritual progress. but if what you desire is spiritual progress then I think that is not forbidden.

But it has to be given up too isnt it? So why not teach people the correct stuff instead of misguiding them to have desires and then give it up.
I remember as a child whenever I prayed in my own style saying "hello God..how are you" my mum would tell me "what type of prayer is that? hello God how are you? you are supposed to pray to God and ask Him to bless you etc" to which I would reply "but who thinks about God that how He is doing" to which the reply from my mum would be "He is God..there is no need to ask Him how he is"

Ok so you see I never agreed with her and continued my way of not asking anything..some might say that we need to guide the kids and hence they should be shown to ask things from God and a young mind might not understand stuff as well..but when now when I am a mother I have told me son..pray for the sake of God..dedicate everything to God..do not make prayer a transaction where we keep asking God stuff"

My son understood that well and he never misses his daily prayer too.So there is no harm telling kids the facts about prayer.


I am not sure about this. But Asuras are not meant to be transformed that way. Evil and good both need to co-exist in this world.

Dear Sravna..how can this be possible?? Everyone is entitled to transformation and liberation.There is no such thing as once an Asura always an Asura..we humans ourselves had gone thru various stages of life from single cell to multicellular we are today..BTW Ex Asura Ravan and Kumbhakaran are guarding the doors of Vaikuntha!LOL


.

 

[renuka]

Dr Renu

Hinduism is a name given by outsiders to a 'way of life' that existed and continues to exist under this umbrella name.
There are traditions and practices that are not always rooted in universal principles but on key areas the diverse practices are woven together by strong fabric of sound reasoning.

While I do not want to debate the merits of all the quotes by Dr Radhakrishnan (former President of India) this link describes some of his well known quotes. They provide better description of Hinduism in my view.

I do not know much about the 'things to be avoided for Japa' - that is not how I learnt it.

For most areas you have cited there are no contradictions in my understanding and I think this forum is not a place for very long and detailed reply. Besides you may say you have limited attention span and will not read a response even if I found time to reply


Contradictions could exist in practices that have evolved over time and die over time. So what?

If the practices are based on universal principles then contradictions arise when our knowledge is superficial and do not have the big picture.

The first three sections of Vedas focusing on Upasana and Karma is completely negated by the last part - and that is on purpose. The teachings of B.Gita are based on teaching of the last part of Vedas. So one will find apparent contradictions with some practices.

Why bother to 'unify the different' - Hinduism as an umbrella religion does not demand or promotethat.

My suggestion is to adopt what makes sense to an individual and within the Umbrella term of Hinduism it will be all fine provided whatever adopted does not cause unnecessary harm to other beings.

In other words - Ahimsa Paramo Dharma (अहिंसा परमॊ धर्मः) is enough for most of us if we strive to follow the intent of the teaching.

Dear TKS ji,

Agreed ..esp about my short attention span!LOL

So far I find only Lord Buddha's teaching kind of direct to the point.If He could tell the Truth direct to the point why we Hindus still need to beat about the bush?

 

[sravna]

Sravna..that is why I am saying its Bipolar..you see one is expected to see differences at the extent of being inhumane but when he is spiritually evolved he is supposed to see everything as the same...doesnt make sense right??
Only 1 person went into reverse direction..Adi Shankara..at the age of 8 he sang Na Me Mrutyu Shanka Na Me Jati Beda..Chidananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham but as an adult he asked the outcaste to get out of his way! Strange!

Dear Renuka,

What is the point of the physical world if everything is one and the same like the spiritual reality. Physical world is characterized by differences and such differnces are to be perceived and we learn and also unlearn from perceiving and acting upon such differences. This is necessary for you to reach a stage where you wouldn't perceive the differences.This is not bipolar but moving from ignorance to knowledge.

But it has to be given up too isnt it? So why not teach people the correct stuff instead of misguiding them to have desires and then give it up.

I remember as a child whenever I prayed in my own style saying "hello God..how are you" my mum would tell me "what type of prayer is that? hello God how are you? you are supposed to pray to God and ask Him to bless you etc" to which I would reply "but who thinks about God that how He is doing" to which the reply from my mum would be "He is God..there is no need to ask Him how he is"

Ok so you see I never agreed with her and continued my way of not asking anything..some might say that we need to guide the kids and hence they should be shown to ask things from God and a young mind might not understand stuff as well..but when now when I am a mother I have told me son..pray for the sake of God..dedicate everything to God..do not make prayer a transaction where we keep asking God stuff"

My son understood that well and he never misses his daily prayer too.So there is no harm telling kids the facts about prayer.

Asking for benefits is not a transaction provided you are not asking for material benefits. Even that at one's earlier stage of development will make sense because your mind has to go through that phase just as a child learns on its way to adulthood.

Dear Sravna..how can this be possible?? Everyone is entitled to transformation and liberation.There is no such thing as once an Asura always an Asura..we humans ourselves had gone thru various stages of life from single cell to multicellular we are today..BTW Ex Asura Ravan and Kumbhakaran are guarding the doors of Vaikuntha!LOL

I am not saying that asuras are not entitled to liberation but God does not do away with evil by power. There is a process to it.

 

[sangom]

I happened to read online about Rules and Regulations of Gayatri Japam and was just wondering why for every act there is something in religious text which negates that.

It's like Panini's Sutras..for each Defining Sutra there is a Negation Sutra which renders the Defining Sutra null and void.

< snipped >

All these examples have made me wonder why there is so much Bipolarity in Hinduism.

That way to a certain extent Abrahamic Religions are Unipolar that is they think that they go to heaven and the Non Followers rot in hell..that does not change and they dont have "Negation Sutras" for each "Defining Sutra".

I would like feed back from members.

Smt. Renuka,

In my view, you are probably getting confused because, as the Tamil saying goes, you are trying to tie a knot between a bald head and the knee cap (மொட்டைதலைக்கும் முழங்காலுக்கும் முடிச்சுப்போடறது). The "no - no's" relating to gaayatree japam apply to anyone and everyone performing that japa with a desire to achieve some result or "phala". But even if one person opts to disregard these negations, what will happen is that his efforts in doing the japa will go a sheer waste, or may benefit some evil forces who will achieve greater powers to cause harm in this world (and not evolve into Devas because of the effects of the mantra japa).

Bhagavadgeeta is, as I had occasion to tell many times before, an "avial" of every stream of hindu thoughts and is, therefore, a jumble. Like a wide-spectrum antibiotic, it helps some swamijis and discourse-makers to put up a very grandiloquent performance before usually unquestioning and highly gullible audiences, that's its only strong point.

Usually we find in the literature for allopathic medications, a section titled "contra-indications"; this helps one to know whether using the medicine will benefit, become useless or will definitely harm him/her. The prohibition on some aspects while doing gaayatree japam are also similar to these "contra-indications".

Another set of do's & don'ts apply in the case of Lalitaasahasranaamam also.(about which another thread is currently going on). But it is entirely within our freedom to obey or disobey these rules. In the latter case - which is the prevailing trend of the present times - these japams will be a sheer waste for the world, or, if there really are evil entities as envisaged in our religion (which we don't usually see and so I can't definitely say) the benefit of these modern japams will be increasing the evil powers of those entities (and not converting them to good or benevolent powers).

I had decided not to post any more, but your doubt impelled me to write what little I have learned.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

In my view, you are probably getting confused because, as the Tamil saying goes, you are trying to tie a knot between a bald head and the knee cap (மொட்டைதலைக்கும் முழங்காலுக்கும் முடிச்சுப்போடறது). The "no - no's" relating to gaayatree japam apply to anyone and everyone performing that japa with a desire to achieve some result or "phala". But even if one person opts to disregard these negations, what will happen is that his efforts in doing the japa will go a sheer waste, or may benefit some evil forces who will achieve greater powers to cause harm in this world (and not evolve into Devas because of the effects of the mantra japa).

Bhagavadgeeta is, as I had occasion to tell many times before, an "avial" of every stream of hindu thoughts and is, therefore, a jumble. Like a wide-spectrum antibiotic, it helps some swamijis and discourse-makers to put up a very grandiloquent performance before usually unquestioning and highly gullible audiences, that's its only strong point.

Usually we find in the literature for allopathic medications, a section titled "contra-indications"; this helps one to know whether using the medicine will benefit, become useless or will definitely harm him/her. The prohibition on some aspects while doing gaayatree japam are also similar to these "contra-indications".

Another set of do's & don'ts apply in the case of Lalitaasahasranaamam also.(about which another thread is currently going on). But it is entirely within our freedom to obey or disobey these rules. In the latter case - which is the prevailing trend of the present times - these japams will be a sheer waste for the world, or, if there really are evil entities as envisaged in our religion (which we don't usually see and so I can't definitely say) the benefit of these modern japams will be increasing the evil powers of those entities (and not converting them to good or benevolent powers).

I had decided not to post any more, but your doubt impelled me to write what little I have learned.

Dear Sangom ji,

Thank you for reply.

 

[renuka]

Answers in Blue.

Dear Renuka,

What is the point of the physical world if everything is one and the same like the spiritual reality. Physical world is characterized by differences and such differnces are to be perceived and we learn and also unlearn from perceiving and acting upon such differences. This is necessary for you to reach a stage where you wouldn't perceive the differences.This is not bipolar but moving from ignorance to knowledge.
Dear Sravna..now the Physical world is characterized by difference becos that is the way we know it.If the Physical world was just uniformly same and that is how we knew it that would have been accepted by us too.
For example we know a cow gives white colored milk..so we cant imagine a cow giving red milk ..same way. We only accept what we are used too.

Asking for benefits is not a transaction provided you are not asking for material benefits. Even that at one's earlier stage of development will make sense because your mind has to go through that phase just as a child learns on its way to adulthood.

The reason I am not fond of this asking benefits cos it does not really make you focus on God..a desire no matter what is still a desire.
Yes I agree that the mind has to learn but how come our minds are always in infantile stage?? why are we not evolving by telling people the truth on how prayer should really be?



I am not saying that asuras are not entitled to liberation but God does not do away with evil by power. There is a process to it.

Technically speaking we can never really know what actually happens to whom.Yes you are right God does not do away with evil cos for God there is no Good nor Evil its just differences in approach that seems as good and evil to our mind.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sangom ji,

I just have a questions to ask you..I dont know if you would reply cos you said you are not keen to write in Forum.

Question:


1)From what you had written in your post it sort of sounds that the Bhagavad Geeta carries not much weight.

Now since you mentioned about the procedures of do and donts need to be followed in order to gain Phala and not let evil forces gain power from imperfect Japas..I would like to know the source of this Do's and Don'ts?

Is it anywhere in a Vedic text or has it been passed down by tradition cos we have to remember the cat below the basket story too.

Hoping for a feedback.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

But shoudln't we think why the physical world is the way it is. The question of "why" is important and can give us important insights. So let us not be influenced only by what happens superficially.

The life span of a universe is very large. We have seen people and their ways for only a microscopic period. People will definitely evolve and that is how I think it is designed to be.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

But shoudln't we think why the physical world is the way it is. The question of "why" is important and can give us important insights. So let us not be influenced only by what happens superficially.

The life span of a universe is very large. We have seen people and their ways for only a microscopic period. People will definitely evolve and that is how I think it is designed to be.

Dear Sravna,

I hope someone can answer my question as where is the source of the Do and Don't of Gayatri Japam..that is from which religious text.

If you can get any info or if you know kindly cite the source.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Forget bhagavad gita, one is not supposed to keep the Mahabharata, except the Santi Parva, in the house as it can cause great harm and discord. Same case with Garuda Purana.

Bhagavad gita is/ was used by people like Chinmayananda/ that famous speaker and his daughter whose name I forgot/ Sri Sri ravishankar and such types to become famous as orators.

 

[renuka]

Bhagavad gita / that famous speaker and his daughter whose name I forgot/

Are you talking about Sunanda Parthsarathy the daughter of Swami Parthasarathy?

 

[ashwin_ash]

Are you talking about Sunanda Parthsarathy the daughter of Swami Parthasarathy?

Ah yes, I remember seeing banners with their pics near Chicago recently, didn't give a really close look.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sangom ji,

I just have a questions to ask you..I dont know if you would reply cos you said you are not keen to write in Forum.

Question:


1)From what you had written in your post it sort of sounds that the Bhagavad Geeta carries not much weight.

Now since you mentioned about the procedures of do and donts need to be followed in order to gain Phala and not let evil forces gain power from imperfect Japas..I would like to know the source of this Do's and Don'ts?

Is it anywhere in a Vedic text or has it been passed down by tradition cos we have to remember the cat below the basket story too.

Hoping for a feedback.

If I may remind:

Vedas do not write a treatise on any advice. The verses are succinct, summary and are aphorisms in form. The content has to be usually learnt from scholars and thought about. Example: Vedas will just say "sradhdhaya dheyam" and follow it up with "asradhdhaya adheyam". This may look like bipolar or binary. But it is meaningful if one thinks about coolly. Similarly in another place vedas say "satyam vatha" . It is a summary command. That if you do not always speak satyam , that whenever you speak asatya, you give your heart a shock or a kick is not said by veda. That this can be used to determine whether a person is telling a lie or not (a lie detector) is not spoken about in vedas. Satyam speaking ultimately makes you not only morally strong, but also physically robust. LOL.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom ji,

I just have a questions to ask you..I dont know if you would reply cos you said you are not keen to write in Forum.

Question:


1)From what you had written in your post it sort of sounds that the Bhagavad Geeta carries not much weight.

Now since you mentioned about the procedures of do and donts need to be followed in order to gain Phala and not let evil forces gain power from imperfect Japas..I would like to know the source of this Do's and Don'ts?

Is it anywhere in a Vedic text or has it been passed down by tradition cos we have to remember the cat below the basket story too.

Hoping for a feedback.

Smt. Renuka,

The opinion about BG is my personal view, as you might have seen in my older posts also. Perhaps with more diligent search one may find support for my views also in the very same BG, possibly!

I have been told that these and similar dos & donts are in the quasi-tantric texts relating to mantras, devi upaasana, etc. But I have heard devi upaasaka brahmins discuss such matters like why one upaasaka here or there becomes mad, diseased beyond control, etc. I am not sure of the evil entities, but going by the Devi upaasaks themselves believing that any worship carried beyond the first yaamam of the night will go to strengthen KaaLi, the destructive aspect of the supreme goddess and thus bring in untold tragedy on such upaasaka and his family etc., I am prone to believe that there may, after all, be some grain of truth in such belief. In any case, my feeling is that this is just not a case of "cat below the basket" story, which arose from the notes of certain elderly person!

You know that I am an agnostic, but I do believe in playing a game according to its rules, not according to our own likes & dislikes.

Note:

There is this book "Mantra Mahodadhi" by one shri Maheedhara. It is a Tantric treatise and probably the book itself or its commentaries like "naukaa" may contain the dos & donts.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

[h=2]Bipolarity of Religion[/h]

I happened to [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]read online​

about Rules and Regulations of Gayatri Japam and [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]was just[/COLOR] wondering why for every act there is something in religious text which negates that.

It's like Panini's Sutras..for each Defining Sutra there is a Negation Sutra which renders the Defining Sutra null and void.


I don't know why you are beating the bush unnecessarily. The procedures laid down for Gayathri Mantra might have been thousands of years old. Actually, it has to be recited only by those who had undergone 'Upanayam'.

Now Gayathri Mantra is broadcast and telecast everywhere. If you have faith in it, recite by following simple procedure; otherwise forget it.​

[/COLOR]

 

[biswa]

The forum page is now serving ads about "Let us help you cope with your bipolar disorder".

Sorry for bringing a bit of levity into a serious discussion. But I think Dr. TKS is right on the money.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Smt. Renuka,

The opinion about BG is my personal view, as you might have seen in my older posts also. Perhaps with more diligent search one may find support for my views also in the very same BG, possibly!

I have been told that these and similar dos & donts are in the quasi-tantric texts relating to mantras, devi upaasana, etc. But I have heard devi upaasaka brahmins discuss such matters like why one upaasaka here or there becomes mad, diseased beyond control, etc. I am not sure of the evil entities, but going by the Devi upaasaks themselves believing that any worship carried beyond the first yaamam of the night will go to strengthen KaaLi, the destructive aspect of the supreme goddess and thus bring in untold tragedy on such upaasaka and his family etc., I am prone to believe that there may, after all, be some grain of truth in such belief. In any case, my feeling is that this is just not a case of "cat below the basket" story, which arose from the notes of certain elderly person!

You know that I am an agnostic, but I do believe in playing a game according to its rules, not according to our own likes & dislikes.

Note:

There is this book "Mantra Mahodadhi" by one shri Maheedhara. It is a Tantric treatise and probably the book itself or its commentaries like "naukaa" may contain the dos & donts.

The 3 books written by Robert Svoboda are also considered Tantric masterpieces. Btw, many Kerala Iyers have Bhadrakali (Bhagavati) as their family deity. Does it imply they might be following saktism/ tantrism?

 

[indianassault]

I happened to read online about Rules and Regulations of Gayatri Japam and was just wondering why for every act there is something in religious text which negates that.

It's like Panini's Sutras..for each Defining Sutra there is a Negation Sutra which renders the Defining Sutra null and void.

Ok let me get to the point..take a look at this which I am sure many of you would be familiar with:





Ok now lets get to the points:

Here it says that one should not see a dog/pig/underprivileged person.

But then the Shloka from the Geeta negates this when it says :

​

Also to add..Dattatreya was always surrounded by dogs and Lord Shiva took the form of an outcaste holding 4 dogs to confront Adi Shankara.

The 4 dogs were representing the 4 Vedas. So is a dog could represent a Veda and be best of buddies with Dattatreya why is seeing a dog considered an No No while doing Gayatri Japa?

Now coming to our Porcine friend the Piggy.Lord Vishnu took the form of a Boar ..a close cousin of the domesticated pig...when Sriman Narayana could take the form of a Boar so why is seeing a piggy while doing Japa also forbidden.



Next is this:




I have noted that benefits is always emphasized and not selflessness and full dedication and surrender to God.

Seeking benefits is preached but the Geeta verse "Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani" negates it.


In another thread...someone wrote that one should cover the hand with the upper garment during Gayatri Japam for fear that the Asura would steal the Phalam of the Japam.


This concept sounds so Abrahamic..to fear the evil/devil etc.

BTW then again this is negated by :




You see if one actually get the Phalam of Japa and its actually "stolen" by the Asura..wont that Asura be transformed by the Phalam?Wont that benefit the world??

So why do we only wish good for ourselves but not for benefit of others but yet recite the above Shloka.


All these examples have made me wonder why there is so much Bipolarity in Hinduism.

That way to a certain extent Abrahamic Religions are Unipolar that is they think that they go to heaven and the Non Followers rot in hell..that does not change and they dont have "Negation Sutras" for each "Defining Sutra".

I would like feed back from members.

Thats one great aspect of Hinduism isnt it? It leaves it up to you to interpret, just like science, which is also not constant and open to advancement and interpretations.

And anyone knows why Bhagavad Gita should be kept at home? I have both Ramayana and Bhagavad Gita. I used to even carry it where ever i went - bus , train, fligght etc...

 

[biswa]

Perhaps a more appropriate title would be "The dichotomy of religion".

But that is to be expected. Hinduism was not created by a single prophet. And clearly different Gods have different temperament.

 

[sangom]

The 3 books written by Robert Svoboda are also considered Tantric masterpieces. Btw, many Kerala Iyers have Bhadrakali (Bhagavati) as their family deity. Does it imply they might be following saktism/ tantrism?

Robert Svoboda, I think, has written mostly about the Aghoris and they surely are a Tantric sect. Since I don't have much interest in that kind of Tantra or religion, I have not read Svoboda's books. BTW, how is this relevant here?

The (hindu) religion in Kerala was primarily brought by the immigrating Namboodiri clans at the dawn of history (the first few centuries of the Christian era, probably). The land was then an agglomeration of so many small islets or sand banks spattered throughout the triangular area which today is the areas compromising the erstwhile Travancore & Cochin kingdoms. Most of these were not populated, the earliest people native to Kerala living along the western slopes of the mountain range and immediate adjacent areas only. Their primitive belief systems had much in common with the ancient Tamil traditions of the Canga period; devi or a female deity and the virali or its counterpart, etc., formed part of their pantheon. The Namboodiris usurped almost the entire belief systems from those primitive people and cleverly adapted certain Tantric practices to the worship. Bhagavati (the sanskrit word bhaga also means the pudendum; so, bhagavati signifies a female goddess' external genitalia) worship possibly started from the early Namboodiris.

The Tamil brahmin history in Kerala starts from the 13th. century A.D. or so. Those who went west (go westwards, young man!) through the Palghat mountain pass or gap, had to accept the superiority of the local Namboodiris who held sway over everything including the local rulers. Hence, the Tabras also fell in line, started worshipping Bhagavati and even accepted one or another Bhagavati as their "Kula Deivam" since they had no intention to go back to their old homeland in Tamil Nadu nor to keep their old Kuladeivam in currency. To that extent those Palghat Brahmins might be said to have become followers of Saktism. All temples barring a handful or so, in Kerala are based on Tantrism; so all keralites may be considered as believers of Tantrism, though most do not know this "Tantra" which is the private property of 4 or 5 Namboodiri Tharwads only.

 

[zebra16]

It's like Panini's Sutras..for each Defining Sutra there is a Negation Sutra which renders the Defining Sutra null and void.

Are you sure that the defining sutra is completely negated by another sutra? Can you please give two sutras which completely negate each other?

My understanding is that one of the sutras limit the function of the previous sutra. For eg. in a mathematical equation, X may be equal to 2 or minus 3. We discount the negative value and continue with the positive value for further activity.

​