Black Money India news Feb 2015

[prasad1]

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In February 2015, Indian Express released the list of 1195 Indians account holders and their balances for the year 2006-07 in HSBC's Geneva branch. The list was obtained by French newspaper Le Monde and included the names of several prominent businessmen, diamond traders and politicians. The number of Indian HSBC clients is roughly double the 628 names that French authorities gave to the Indian Government in 2011.

Indian government said it will probe this matter.[SUP][/SUP] The balance against the 1195 names stood at Rs. 25,420 crore.

The list which had names of dictators and international criminals, was simultaneously published by news organisations in 45 countries including The Guardian, UK; Haaretz, Israel; BBC, London.[SUP][/SUP] HSBC had helped its clients evade taxes[SUP][/SUP] and said in a statement that "standards of due diligence were significantly lower than today."[SUP][/SUP]

The List: Who?s Who & How Much | The Indian Express

These are alleged names in the leak. They will have to be investigated. The amount today may be different.
Swiss government and HSBC are not going to help the investigation.
Once again, it is important to remember that merely having a Swiss account is not enough reason to tar and feather people - though it has been the common assumption in India for a while now.

Perhaps in a sign of how hysterically overblown the issue is in India, only two politicians so far feature on this list that contains the who's who of Indian business.
Former Maharashtra Chief Minister Narayan Rane's wife Neelam and Minister in the former UPA government and wife of former Punjab chief minister Amarinder Singh, Preneet Kaur.

So if all the political parties do have vast funds somewhere abroad, they are apparently keeping it in places other than where Indian businessmen are doing so. But it is true IE has not released the whole list yet ??? so perhaps time will tell.

No murderers or bribe-takers yet.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Black Money is some thing like "Chidambara Rahasyam" - Nobody knows what it is. But because it is rahasyam everybody will keep talking about it including me. But nobody would want to be whistle blower in this case?!

 

[[email protected]]

The hsbc bank of geneva branch can release the indian businessmen names at least. Then indian govt. Should take immediate action against them for cheating our govt. Let the money come or not at least the persons may be punished their properties attached by govt. Will be a nightmare to others.
Will the govt. Take such steps at least?
[email protected]

 

[prasad1]

Denying claims of illicit money parked abroad, top industrialists and politicians like the Ambani brothers, Jet Airways chairman Naresh Goyal and former Maharashtra chief minister Narayan Rane said such claims were false.
“There is no black (money)...There is nothing to hide, nothing to worry. (I am) following all regulations and rules,” Goyal said.
A Reliance Industries spokesperson said, “Neither Reliance Industries nor Mukesh Ambani have or had any illegitimate bank accounts anywhere in the world.”
A spokesperson for Anil Ambani also said that he did not have any overseas HSBC account.
Former Maharashtra chief minister Narayan Rane too denied the allegations, saying neither he nor his family members held any accounts in Swiss banks.
“My name had figured earlier too but there is no truth in it. Neither me nor my wife nor my family has any account abroad,” he said. Spokespersons of Emaar MGF and Dabur group-promoter family Burmans, however, refused to comment on the issue.
Names of many prominent industrialists had featured in a report by the Indian Express.
According to the report, 1,195 Indian names figure in the HSBC list with a total balance of `25,420 crore as part of an investigation by an international body of journalists, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ).

Industrialists react to Swiss leaks, say black money claims false

 

[vgane]

As the list of 1195 holders from India is published hope action is taken on this

Out of this, there are 276 account holders with at least $1 million in their balance & 85 of them are residing in the country...Hope they are not allowed to leave the country till investigations are over

 

[cmano1981]

There is a talk earlier that those who earn with proper documentation like payslips, tax filing etc pays more tax than those roadside business, small shops, jewellery shops, hawala international travellers doing illegal trade. In many cases, the second category don't even pay tax. Before trying to punish the rich or business men who are providing jobs and help economy, others have to be targeted. Also politicians who are supposed to sacrifice themselves for public should be wiped out of all their wrong money.

 

[cmano1981]

Exclusive: HSBC Indian list just doubled to 1195 names. Balance: Rs 25420 cr | The Indian Express

this has information and there is a link inside which links to Ambani & others.... not the ones we look forward to see from Tamilnadu...

 

[krish44]

indias economy is fuelled by black money.

everytime we buy or consume anything without getting a proper numbered receipt for money paid we are

unwittingly generating black money.

the black economy is estimated to be more than the white.

crores from some accounts in swiss banks is the tip of the iceberg.

I doubt the big fish will ever be caught

 

[auh]

There is a talk earlier that those who earn with proper documentation like payslips, tax filing etc pays more tax than those roadside business, small shops, jewellery shops, hawala international travellers doing illegal trade. In many cases, the second category don't even pay tax. Before trying to punish the rich or business men who are providing jobs and help economy, others have to be targeted. Also politicians who are supposed to sacrifice themselves for public should be wiped out of all their wrong money.

These roadside stalls, small businesses and jewellery shops do pay "mamool", in lieu of tax, to the police or tax officers and take good care of them. So who cares? Is there any single body in India that regulates such incidents. A roadside stall would pay, on an average, about 100 rs/day and the number of shops are in the thousands in a single town. Imagine the amount of money that we are talking about. Besides, sales tax and corporate tax evasion are also in the thousands. India is a land inhabited by individuals who are predominantly disposed to cheat when given the opportunity, and it is a land that is also governed by cheats.

In olden days, rowdies/ruffians used to collect money from roadside shops, which work is now done by the police. There are a few police stations that are in the priority list of policemen to get a transfer to... and the amount is in several lakhs. These are all very well known in the police and political circles; nowadays being a police/politician is only to earn money... maintaning law and order/administration and social justice is secondary or rather incidental, if it should happen.

 

[zebra16]

These roadside stalls, small businesses and jewellery shops do pay "mamool", in lieu of tax, to the police or tax officers and take good care of them. So who cares? Is there any single body in India that regulates such incidents. A roadside stall would pay, on an average, about 100 rs/day and the number of shops are in the thousands in a single town. Imagine the amount of money that we are talking about. Besides, sales tax and corporate tax evasion are also in the thousands. India is a land inhabited by individuals who are predominantly disposed to cheat when given the opportunity, and it is a land that is also governed by cheats.

In olden days, rowdies/ruffians used to collect money from roadside shops, which work is now done by the police. There are a few police stations that are in the priority list of policemen to get a transfer to... and the amount is in several lakhs. These are all very well known in the police and political circles; nowadays being a police/politician is only to earn money... maintaning law and order/administration and social justice is secondary or rather incidental, if it should happen.

This just scratches at the surface of the problem and refuses to look at the deeper problem.

Why do these roadside stalls, small business etc. have good business? It is because the local residents patronise them because (i) it saves inconvenience and extra money to go to the regular or authorized shops; (ii) it is cheap because of evasion of government duties and some overhead costs like rent and establishment charges; and (iii) the average citizen is totally apathetic to the government's revenue collection to meet its social costs.

From the street vendors' point of view it is the lack of better employment opportunity that drives them into this semi legitimate business.

All news channels and media will stop their blame at the politician and police and dare not point finger at the common man (because they also depend on his patronage) who condones corruption and in many cases is an active accessory.

This projection of police and politician in the pitch dark color by the media is what has brought in the AAP to power in Delhi, though the **forum brigade** will spin their own tales.

 

[prasad1]

You do not need a reason for corruption.
If enforcement is lax corruption will flourish.
If enforcement is strict at all levels corruption will vanish in no time.
I would have said morality would play a part, but sometimes the atmosphere is so polluted that even normally moral people have to bend the rule just to survive.

 

[auh]

This just scratches at the surface of the problem and refuses to look at the deeper problem.

Why do these roadside stalls, small business etc. have good business? It is because the local residents patronise them because (i) it saves inconvenience and extra money to go to the regular or authorized shops; (ii) it is cheap because of evasion of government duties and some overhead costs like rent and establishment charges; and (iii) the average citizen is totally apathetic to the government's revenue collection to meet its social costs.

From the street vendors' point of view it is the lack of better employment opportunity that drives them into this semi legitimate business.

All news channels and media will stop their blame at the politician and police and dare not point finger at the common man (because they also depend on his patronage) who condones corruption and in many cases is an active accessory.

This projection of police and politician in the pitch dark color by the media is what has brought in the AAP to power in Delhi, though the **forum brigade** will spin their own tales.

Point well made and well taken.

But I would not label the street vendors and hawkers as a semi-legitimate business since it appears to be a practice continuing from olden days (I dont have proof). So it is a practice that has gained social acceptance over time, and hence, the people who buy from then cannot be accused of apathy. Moreover, these street shops include the local bhelpuri stall, idli stall and the midnight "thattu kadais".

There is also another category - legal shops that resort to tax evasion. I will give an example - a rajasthani, let us assume, does cloth business in Tamil Nadu, and the goods cross many state borders till the material arrives in his shop. He does not pay (in those days) CST, octroi, or any other regional levies in the course of transit. Hence there is no record of the actual inventory in his books. But then the local sales tax has to be filed as otherwise they would go through his books, or conduct a surprise check to make his life miserable and so he keeps them in line by stuffing their pockets.

Note: this is a real life example which I happened to hear from the horse's mouth itself since we went there to develop a system for him.

How would a person who comes to his shop know all these? The regulatory mechanism is the key to all these...

 

[vgane]

The question is if someone buys a piece of jewellery,the owner of the shop asks "Do you want a bill"..The customer knows if he asks for a bill, he has to shell out more...Evasion starts there...Most of the tax authorities have poor supervision and surveillance...They are more interested in big fish so that they get media attention and for the small /mid shops they do visit; Not for scrtunizing the accounts or catch the evaders red handed but to take cuts & commissions

 

[a-TB]

Point well made and well taken.

But I would not label the street vendors and hawkers as a semi-legitimate business since it appears to be a practice continuing from olden days (I dont have proof). So it is a practice that has gained social acceptance over time, and hence, the people who buy from then cannot be accused of apathy. Moreover, these street shops include the local bhelpuri stall, idli stall and the midnight "thattu kadais".

There is also another category - legal shops that resort to tax evasion. I will give an example - a rajasthani, let us assume, does cloth business in Tamil Nadu, and the goods cross many state borders till the material arrives in his shop. He does not pay (in those days) CST, octroi, or any other regional levies in the course of transit. Hence there is no record of the actual inventory in his books. But then the local sales tax has to be filed as otherwise they would go through his books, or conduct a surprise check to make his life miserable and so he keeps them in line by stuffing their pockets.

Note: this is a real life example which I happened to hear from the horse's mouth itself since we went there to develop a system for him.

How would a person who comes to his shop know all these? The regulatory mechanism is the key to all these...

I like this exchange between Mr Auh and Mr Zebra - very insightful.
In the end large majority must want a corruption free India and every person must want to practice that in their own life for their own good. Political parties cannot succeed in the long run without people making the sacrifice for corruption free India. I think IT systems should be deployed and used to catch big offenders for now

 

[auh]

The question is if someone buys a piece of jewellery,the owner of the shop asks "Do you want a bill"..The customer knows if he asks for a bill, he has to shell out more...Evasion starts there...

Dear sir, even if we were to get a bill with the serial number, we would not come to know if that particular invoice was included in his records for tax remittance! Very Murky.

You are right about the surveillance system...

 

[sarang]

A new initiative re provident fund. As soon as the employer deposits pf contribution, both the employee and employer will get sms. Tax evasion is a serious and widely privalent issue and needs multipronged attack.

 

[prasad1]

Dear sir, even if we were to get a bill with the serial number, we would not come to know if that particular invoice was included in his records for tax remittance! Very Murky.

You are right about the surveillance system...

We have not reached that kind of sophistication at an affordable cost.
Here in USA, the sales tax department can audit all sales have to be processed through cash register. The cash register has a running tape in addition to the printed receipts. The state can audit the sales tax paid with the tape of sales. But enterprising mom & pop shops will bring out the an undeclared cash register on odd days and take it back home, and consequently hide few sales. But overall 99% of business pay their tax due. Most of the cash-registers are connected to computer system and item prices are scanned, and generally employees can not change the price.

Last time we were in Chennai, a super store with multiple floors, gave us an itemized receipt (multiple machines and hand totaled) from their cash register obviously the employees know the trick. But the receipt did not carry any item description. So there was no way to trace the item to the price. I am pretty sure there is no way to audit such transaction. Even the largest jewelery store in Chennai only gave us a receipt with hand written bill-of-sales with words "estimated price".

If you want to circumvent a system crooks will find a way. Locks are only for casual thief, a determined criminal can not be prevented.