brahimins vadyar chages heavy

[prabhakaran123]

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one of the reason why the beleif in rituals slow to show down ward graph is the fct tht the so called vadyars chrge exhorbitantly for performing rituals.

A ganapathy homam cost dakshina of Rs./4500/- and navagraha homam of samae amoutn.

Shrardam wil coast notless than 2500/-

Marriage Dakshina caost Rs.20,000 for boys and Rs.15,000/- for girls side

There is no price tag for all these charges

there is no quality test for vadyars.

If we go to market for bying any vegetable we bargain with the poor chap for rucing rs.1 or Rs.2 but with these looting vadyars we do not ask any qauestion.

The pathetic situation is that even the great pontifs belong to the community keep a mute spectator and never issue any order

In muslim or in Christianity or in any other religion we hardly find any price tagaso high

yet our vadyasrs say they are brahmins who is suposed tobe away from materialstic greed.

Today veda padam and prohitam are the most sort of the business
becuase noone know what they do is right or not

The only way to stop this is eiether every every brohmin should learn sanskrit or he can perform this in the know language.

No god is going to say tht they will not accept your offering if you tell it in your mothre tounge.

It is the artificial tag given by the brahmin as Deva bashai.

Vallaar nevr new sanskrit, yet he saw god.Arunagiri nadar never knew sanskirit
still he saw lord muruga.

Vedan KANAPAN the hunter never performed rituals yet he reached moksham

Sant tukaram wrote abang in marathi, Sant dyaneshwar translated Geetha in marathi.

They were the most soft after deciple by Vittal rukmini. so aso the grat pundalikaar.

I think if our brahmin community should improve we should put a barier on thee vadyars looting the society inthe name of rituals.

Prabhakaran.

 

[s007bala]

re

one of the reason why the beleif in rituals slow to show down ward graph is the fct tht the so called vadyars chrge exhorbitantly for performing rituals...... /quote]

Shri Prabhakaran

A brahmin is a person who understands brahman or brahmandam. In other words a person is a brahmin only if he is knowledgeable about the above two. It is Common sense that knowledge is not gained by birth but by our deeds over a period of time.

Valmiki who wrote Ramayanam was not a brahmin by birth. Sage Vyasa who wrote Mahabharatam was not a brahmin by birth. The sage Vishwamitrar was not a brahmin by birth and yet he became a maha-rishi.Lord Krishna himself was not a brahmin by birth either! The villain Ravanan in Ramayanam was a brahmanan by birth i.e yet he has been evil and bad.

Note that a brahmin is also called a Dwija born in the vedas. Dwija means,one who is twice born. The first birth is his natural birth in the family and the second birth is the new birth he gains through the knowledge he attains and becomes what he is. To become a brahmin one has to become a Dwija. To become a dwija one has to gain knowledge and practical experiance to explain or teach. If vedas had said that a person is brahmin by his birth, then they would have never called him a dwija.Even if a person is born to a brahmin, if he doesnt get the second birth by gaining knowledge and practical experiance, then he is not considered to be a brahmin.In this context,most of us are naam ka waastay brahmins only,including me.

sb.

From Shrimadh Bhagavatham

TEXT 35

yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ
puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam
yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta
tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

SYNONYMS

yasya—of whom; yat—which; lakṣaṇam—symptom; proktam—described (above); puṁsaḥ—of a person; varṇa-abhivyañjakam—indicating the classification (brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, etc.); yat—if; anyatra—elsewhere;
api—also; dṛśyeta—is seen; tat—that; tena—by that symptom; eva—certainly; vinirdiśet—one should designate.

If one shows the symptoms of being a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.

Herein it is clearly stated by Nārada Muni that one should not be accepted as a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra according to birth, for although this is going on now, it is not accepted by the śāstras.

As stated in Bhagavad-gītā (4.13),

catur-varnyam maya srstam
guna-karma-vibhagasah
tasya kartaram api mam
viddhy akartaram avyayam

SYNONYMS

catuh-varnyam--the four divisions of human society; maya--by Me; srstam--created; guna--quality; karma--work; vibhagasah--in terms of division; tasya--of that; kartaram--the father; api--although; mam--Me; viddhi--you may know; akartaram--as the non-doer; avyayam--being unchangeable.
TRANSLATION

According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.

Thus the four divisions of society—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra—are to be ascertained according to qualities and activities. If one was born in a brāhmaṇa family and has acquired the brahminical qualifications, he is to be accepted as a brāhmaṇa; otherwise, he should be considered a brahma-bandhu.

Similarly, if a śūdra acquires the qualities of a brāhmaṇa, although he was born in a śūdra family, he is not a śūdra; because he has developed the qualities of a brāhmaṇa, he should be accepted as a brāhmaṇa. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant to develop these brahminical qualities. Regardless of the community in which one was born, if one develops the qualities of a brāhmaṇa he should be accepted as a brāhmaṇa, and he then may be offered the order of sannyāsa.

Unless one is qualified in terms of the brahminical symptoms, one cannot take sannyāsa. In designating a person a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, birth is not the essential symptom. This understanding is very important. Herein Nārada Muni distinctly says that one may be accepted according to the caste of his birth if he has the corresponding qualifications, but otherwise he should not. One who has attained the qualifications of a brāhmaṇa, regardless of where he was born, should be accepted as a brāhmaṇa. Similarly, if one has developed the qualities of a śūdra or a caṇḍāla, regardless of where he was born, he should be accepted in terms of those symptoms.

Excerpts by Srila Prabhupada.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Hello Prabhakaran123,

This issue has to be looked upon from two angles...

=> from the point of the customers ie., us... which you have done in your post

=> from the point of the vadhyars:

- are we aware of how many years they practice in the patasala?
- many may not be formally educated like us, in the modern branches of studies
- their lifestyle has to be totally different, for us to have total confidence in them... will we accept a brahmana as our vadhyar if he smokes cigarette or consumes "spirits"? so, apart from studies, we expect certain restrictions in character from him...
- again, vadhyars are at the bottom of the list when it comes to grading in terms of marriage...
- kudumi vecchukanum... though not all vadhyars do, the majority have... illena, mantram sonnalum, namakku kudumi illenu oru angst irukkum...
- ivlo solrome... apdi vadhyars adicchu pidungi niraiya sambadhikkara na... why are we not sending our children to patasalas? so that we could also earn like that?
- real estate prices aniyayam jaasthi aayirukku nu yaaravudhu solroma... yenna, even if half have sufferred, there is the other half which has benefitted... we look for opportunities within it... supply-demand nu nambale samadhana paduthikkarom...

so, we have to accept that they too have certain basic needs... and also to move forward in this complex, materialistic society...

having said that, i would probably think that brahmins should charge their fees according to the "money power" of the family... but then, it could be subjective... the doctor does not do it, the educational institution does not do it... then why should the vadhyar...?

maybe a common brahmin trust could among other functions, fix and regulate the fees of the vadhyars for all rites... even compensate them where they have subsidised (based on the data with the trust)... in this way both could be made happy...

 

[tbs]

Hello Prabhakaran123,

This issue has to be looked upon from two angles...

=> from the point of the customers ie., us... which you have done in your post

=> from the point of the vadhyars:

- are we aware of how many years they practice in the patasala?
- many may not be formally educated like us, in the modern branches of studies
- their lifestyle has to be totally different, for us to have total confidence in them... will we accept a brahmana as our vadhyar if he smokes cigarette or consumes "spirits"? so, apart from studies, we expect certain restrictions in character from him...
- again, vadhyars are at the bottom of the list when it comes to grading in terms of marriage...
- kudumi vecchukanum... though not all vadhyars do, the majority have... illena, mantram sonnalum, namakku kudumi illenu oru angst irukkum...
- ivlo solrome... apdi vadhyars adicchu pidungi niraiya sambadhikkara na... why are we not sending our children to patasalas? so that we could also earn like that?
- real estate prices aniyayam jaasthi aayirukku nu yaaravudhu solroma... yenna, even if half have sufferred, there is the other half which has benefitted... we look for opportunities within it... supply-demand nu nambale samadhana paduthikkarom...

so, we have to accept that they too have certain basic needs... and also to move forward in this complex, materialistic society...

having said that, i would probably think that brahmins should charge their fees according to the "money power" of the family... but then, it could be subjective... the doctor does not do it, the educational institution does not do it... then why should the vadhyar...?

maybe a common brahmin trust could among other functions, fix and regulate the fees of the vadhyars for all rites... even compensate them where they have subsidised (based on the data with the trust)... in this way both could be made happy...

hi sesh sir,
you are rite..........i myself a vedapatasala student.....i know the reality.......not everyone is earning as we think.......its tough
competetive profession.......supply and demand is the nature of law.
can u imagine? a picchaikaran in delhi has lakhs of rupees inbank..
means not all pichaikarans are notlakshadhpadhis.......same way
its very tough profession too......

regards
tbs

 

[happyhindu]

i think the thread initiator is confused between moksham and necessity to make a living...if everyone goes the kanappan way, there won't be any variety in life...with increasing living costs, how can one cope without charging accordingly...

 

[s007bala]

I say pay Sastrigals with as much as one can afford.More often than not,if the sastrigal comes to know you are poor and cannot pay his /her fees,thay accomadate their fees.This is my personal experiance with sastrigals,especially Sivacharias.

sb

 

[tbs]

I say pay Sastrigals with as much as one can afford.More often than not,if the sastrigal comes to know you are poor and cannot pay his /her fees,thay accomadate their fees.This is my personal experiance with sastrigals,especially Sivacharias.

sb

hi sb sir,
i think u r rite.......i have some opinion/views..
1, vadhyars are not swamijis or sanyasis...
2, they are not multi billioners/multi millioners..
3, they have family/ children.........
4 they are not 5th grade educated/ 80 years old politicians, who are
looting tax payers money.......
5, last but not least........they are also human beings...
survival is the fittest in the world.........even though im not
supporting 100%........but many of them living simple in villages...
all vadyars are not living in delhi/mumbai or abroad.......

regards
tbs

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

If you want to get the ritual done by a properly qualified professional, you have to pay his fees.

Then it is not necessary to call the Vadhyar. Being born a Brahmin you are perfectly qualified to conduct a Ganapathy homam or a Navagraha homam. You can do it yourself.

The book Home Vidhanam published by the Ramakrishna Mission is very good. Then you can learn Ganapathy Atharvashirsham and Navagraha Suktham for recitation during the homams.

Conducting a homam is not very difficult.

You know there are people who call an electrician to change a blown fuse. He charges a lot for that. Most of us have learnt to change the electric fuse.

 

[[email protected]]

I do agree with Prabh, I have Paid Rs 100/- for Ammavasi Tharpanam. Rs 400/- to Sasatigal, and 300/-per person for bhahamanal, and conveyences etc. Their argument is that their are not having PF, Bonus, Retairement benificts, Pension etc, so they charge havey. In death their damand is more and there are Classifications to conduct these rites., middlemen's play a vital role.

 

[happyhindu]

Sri SR Krishnamurthy,

Then as Sri-N-ji says wudn't it be better if you learnt to do it yourself (instead of complaining). And there are middlemen for these things? Ofcourse you yourself understand that they do not have PF, pension, etc. Just look at the costs even 15 years back and now? Moreover, in those ancient days people had fewer needs, they did not have to spend heavily on educating their kids, etc. When you expect a good life for yourself, it would be sad to think that you do not want them to have an equally good life.

 

[kunjuppu]

this practice of blaming 'gouging vadhyars' is familiar to me from the day i came to know things..

i have always about how, we will, without the blink of an eyelid, will splurge (at that time ie 1960s, 70s) thousands on wedding halls, reception, saris, dowries, jewellery etc.

yet when the vadhyar asked for a few extra ruppees, it became an open fight. this was consistent in my family. including my extended one. don't know about others.

while on one hand, i used to mind the vadhyar grovelling after the 'big' houses like simpsons or easuns, at the same time, i could not but empathize with the lot of the juniors, who were often at the mercy of the senior vadhyars, and whom i suspect, very cleanly were passed on dhaanams which were meant to be consecrated for our ancestors' souls.

i got the ultimate personal satisfaction in the past few occassions, all of which were to do with death rituals, of handing over whatever the vadhyar demanded, without wasting a spit on bargaining.

ofcourse, this still resulted, in me walking away at the end of it, of being gypped, not because of the amount paid, but because, the dhaanams did not reach those for whom it was meant. i was thoroughly demoralized to argue.

 

[[email protected]]

Dear Happy Hindu, When I said this is true, When my sisters death and i asked our family Progithar to do things, he just said some tel nos and procedthe last rights,but of the final day he came and collected the money and things what he need,(put Kurcham) and said they are having agents and sastify them he dit this , later a day i understand 25% commison to him with out duing any thing,that why i started noe a days doneting the amounts of my fathers and sisters to put in sewa box of my masters, Satsang. This money is used in Langer(communityKitchen) for feeding lacks of satsangies.

 

[Krishnakumar]

Eventhough it is true to an extent, we need to think about their livelyhood. They are solely dependent on us who gest the yemen service from them. If you look into other religions for example, christians need to pay a percentage of their income to the parish council or church and like wise Muslims contribute as Zakat. These ultimately goes to the welfare of the persons who contribute to the development of the respective religions. The best way for us is to show more interest on these activities and patronise those who are offering these services atleast (for our benefit). If we dont patronise them, who else will do?

 

[tbs]

Eventhough it is true to an extent, we need to think about their livelyhood. They are solely dependent on us who gest the yemen service from them. If you look into other religions for example, christians need to pay a percentage of their income to the parish council or church and like wise Muslims contribute as Zakat. These ultimately goes to the welfare of the persons who contribute to the development of the respective religions. The best way for us is to show more interest on these activities and patronise those who are offering these services atleast (for our benefit). If we dont patronise them, who else will do?

\
hi krishnakumar,
i fully agree with u.......even i can understand....im fully aware of this situation........i was a tenant in Mylapore in 70s/ 80s in a vadhyar's
home.... i got some personal experiences and proximity to vadhyar's day today life.......now a days a lot of changes..they sre more organised.
i had bitter experiences in bombay/delhi too.......now the problems
are both sides.........vadhyars are having demanding mentality..
our mentality is still in 60s/ 70s thinking good olden days vadhyar's
perception........we have coexist with present scenario...

regards
tbs

 

[Krishnakumar]

Dear TBS,
There are very good vathiyars I have across for conducting the rituals in the manner it has to be done. Unfortunately everybody is not alike. I feel the main reason behind this issue is only us. Because of our life style (which changes with generations) we insist and ask the vadyars to get the rituals done to our tunes giving much importance to our professional life rather than giving the utmost importance to the religious activities. Moreover the exploded population and reduced availability of vadyars make this situation worse. In my opinion we need to take these simple steps to get the desired effect:
1. Individuals do the rituals perfectly including nithyakarmas giving more importance for the religious activities with immense faith.
2. Encourage & patronise young aspirants and veda padasalas / ashrams who develop these vadyars & vedic scholars by any possible help. (One such I have come across is Sandeepani Gurukula Trust. website: www.madhuramurali.org).

 

[prabhakaran123]

friends thanks for expressing your views
i am not againsty vadyaars
but i am against the fact that they make it commercialy un viable
for many to predict.
i agree they spend vlauable time in patashalaa,
then who does not
but one thing one has to admit is that
how many come with a certificate to prove their credentiality
i think you all understand my point of view

 

[s007bala]

Thun Kai Thunnai Oodhavum.Become your own priest and do the rituals,is another suggestion,to think of.

sb

 

[tbs]

friends thanks for expressing your views
i am not againsty vadyaars
but i am against the fact that they make it commercialy un viable
for many to predict.
i agree they spend vlauable time in patashalaa,
then who does not
but one thing one has to admit is that
how many come with a certificate to prove their credentiality
i think you all understand my point of view

hi prabhakaran
there is no certificate system in veda patashalas......some veda sadas
are conducted.........if i am a ph.d in vedas......i may not be a good vadyar..
there are good MD Ph.D's in medicine.......they may not be good doctors..
in vadyar profession .......practica experiences are more important than
any certification........there is problem in US Army..........US Army
wants hindu chaplains (Vadhyars) needed......they are asking certified
vadyars.......but no vadhyars are certified in hinduism/priesthood...
this is tradition........not a board certified profession like doctors/
electrician.... in christianity/muslim ...they have certification by the
hierchy system....like ordained christian priests/mulim mullahs...

regards
tbs

 

[[email protected]]

Sri HHji, Todays cast of living is high, but they should also understand others income.e.g. Our vathiyar will charge 1500/ as he willcome but the same amount will be charged and some juniors to sent on the other days of thethi. I was personely witnested commmion between senior and juniors. Now a days the mobile phone become handy for vathiyars, while performing pooja,homams, marriages, they will give instructions to their counterparts at some otherplace, Now a days money is their motive.

 

[happyhindu]

Now a days the mobile phone become handy for vathiyars, while performing pooja,homams, marriages, they will give instructions to their counterparts at some otherplace, Now a days money is their motive.

I have seen this happen. Two vadhyars hurried thru one shashtiabdipoorthi ceremony just to be able to fit in two weddings within the muhurtam time - it left a bad taste for all the attendees. Instructions on phone to others while not concentrating on the ceremony on hand has also been noted by a few in cities. Lets face it. For everyone, these days the motive is money. Its kaliyuga.

At the same time, lets not deprive, but be as affording as we can, to the ones that really conduct and complete the cermonies well. There are also those that do not expect more than the decided fees, the ones that rarely haggle. Its better to treat each situation differently. All are not same.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Shri Krishnamoorthy,

My father has got deekshai for performing homams by himself... but still he does not do it... coz there are people who are dedicated to do it... and it would be better if they do it...

Also, he stresses the etiquette he desires, during the homam... like the number of aavarthis, not doing playful things... (like talking on the cellphone etc)... and the vadhyar adheres to it... my father knows the agamams, rituals etc.. and hence the vadhyar cannot dupe him... they sense it when they speak to him... we have performed countless homams since my childhood...

I guess it all boils down to these things - knowledge of rituals, one's purchasing power, dedication and their sincerity in performing the ritual...

Regards,
Seshadri

 

[prabhakaran123]

my friends
i have gone through all the replies for and aagainst the issue

It takes more than 10+2+3+2=15 yrs for any one to get a graduaton/ost graduation/mmbs/engineer. and the person come out for earning at 26.-27.
The total cost of study in these 26 yrs go ot less than 2 to 3 lakhs ordinarily excluding the cos ofbooks and transport and uniform,dnaation,tution classes etc
the tal cost ncluding these things depending upon the capacity of the person goes more than 6 to 7 lakhs.

coming out fresh for job at the outset one gets just Rs.15,000/- to maximum in the year. exception being the selected ones in IT,Enginering, and doctors, who i dont consider inthe general lot.

Now compare the saving potentialities and the accumulation of wealth over tgha period of next 30 years of frutful life. The wealth accumulaton may not reacheven 10,00000/-(icluding PF Gratuity and superannuation),

Then compare this with 7 yrs of gurukula adyayanam, and the practice subseuently
and the walth accuulation subsequently.

on a moderate a vadyar in the initial years of his service gets arond Rs.1000/- per day general, and the avani avitallm mariage, and other karyam, both mangala karyam, and apara karyam fetches them heavy amounts. Their earning capacity is more than 60,000/-= per month to 1 lakh per month in the intial year of their life, with hardly any cost. hence the wealth accumulatlion is many folds.

Does this justify the cause for which they take up the professsion.

Ican give a list of vadyars especialy in North, who have become crore pathis in a few years of their practice, just flouting all ethics, and dharmas for which they are reverred.

I definitely feel these are the persons who are the cause of our cultural and daarmic down trodden.

Howmany vadyars stil wear, panchkacham, keepbare body, do sandyavandanam do nithya karma, least of practice keeping of ":Kudumi"

If they do folllow the ethics which are the code of their conduct, they certainly do not justify holding such high revred post, just becuase they initialy chanted veda manadram in patashala,for many years.





,Gratuity,etc

 

[s007bala]

Vaadyars

Shri Prabhakaran

>>Howmany vadyars stil wear, panchkacham, keepbare body, do sandyavandanam do nithya karma, least of practice keeping of ":Kudumi"<<

Most Vaadyars wear dhotis,maynot be panchakacham.Kudumi is also done.Moonjilla oru kalai is there with kudumis,though girls dont like it.So Vaadyars have tuff time getting married.Sandyavandanam is being done.All this i am saying with American Sastrigals.In fact Americans are following better than Indians.Even more knowledgeable also.Indian Americans rock.

sb

 

[Balaji_Iyer]

RIGHT SAID. Not all vadyars lead a great life, only when they become the leader of that group they do and it happens only after a lot of experience. In this growing economy if we wish to contribute something to our community then we should not worry about giving them money. If you know mantras you can perform poojas yourself, but we dont. this is the money we pay for their knowledge and taking society on the right path.

 

[hariharan1972]

Friends,

Permit a slight digression.

Sri Nacchi sir,

I saw your response in this thread that if employing a Vadhyar is too expensive, one may do the rituals by oneself.

Elsewhere (not in this forum) I read someone writing that not all brahmins were allowed to recite the vedas.

Is it right ?

Are there any pre-conditions to recite the vedas (apart from Diksha) ?

I intend to counter the statement and hence looking for your kind guidance.

Thanks in advance sir