Brahmins fight for Survival

[praveen]

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An article published in Times of India, Chennai Edition on August 28th, 2010

IGNORED BY POLITICAL PARTIES AND DENIED WELFARE,LARGE SECTIONS OF A TRADITIONALLY ELITE CLASS LIVE IN POVERTY

B Sivakumar | TNN

Chennai: V Subramaniam,65,has been a priest for over three decades,assisting in Hindu rituals and ceremonies for most of his life.He is treated with respect by the community when he steps into a house to perform a puja or solemnize a marriage.

There is little else to show for it though.His monthly income of Rs 1,000 is below the poverty line.He lives in a dilapidated house,his wife works as a domestic help,and his sons have dropped out of school.The future is clearly bleak.

Such is the plight of a large section of Tamil Nadus Brahmin community,often regarded to be at the top of the discriminatory caste order and therefore denied welfare benefits by a government intent on social justice.

The daily income of Subramaniam and other Brahmins like him in Chennai,who make a living merely by assisting at Hindu ceremonies and rituals,tend to vary a great deal.

There are seasons when marriages are not conducted at all or pujas may be few.

In several cases,such families get by with the wives working as cooks.Most save on rent by living in decrepit houses in the older quarters like Triplicane or Mylapore where they share rooms with other families.

Although perceived as a community that places a premium on education,many are often unable to afford hefty school or college fees.N Ravi,who works as an accountant with a private firm,recently pulled his son out of an engineering college as he could not afford the fees.

He shifted him to an arts college.As students from the forward community largely comprising Brahmins,a section of Pillais,Chettiars and Mudaliars are ineligible for fee concessions,many poor Brahmins like Ravi struggle to educate their wards.

Most poor Brahmins in and around Mylapore and Mambalam are not even aware of the state governments old age pension scheme nor do they get the free colour televisions being distributed by the administration.The only government benefit they avail of is the purchase of essential commodities in the public distribution system at a subsidized rate.

Mylapore MLA S Ve Shekher says,More than 50% of the Brahmins live a hand-to-mouth existence.It is a myth that all Brahmins lead a comfortable life.There are Brahmins who drive autos,carry bodies and take care of cremation and serve as waiters in restaurants.When those from other communities doing similar jobs enjoy government benefits like education grants,why not poor Brahmins

Some months back,Shekher,who has also stared a forum for the community,presented a memorandum to chief minister M Karunanidhi seeking extension of benefits to poor Brahmins,but there has been no response so far.
Tamil Nadu Brahmins Association (*******) secretary V Jagannathan notes that Brahmins hardly enter government service now since reservations are heavily weighed against them;most are either employed in the private sector or run their own enterprises.The more professionally qualified end up migrating to other states.

None of the government schemes applies to the poor in forward communities.Even the free cycles given to girl students was made universal only after the association made a representation,he says.
S Chellappa,a marriage caterer says many poor Brahmins in the city have now moved to the suburbs beyond Tambaram as they can no more afford rent here.The general view is that Brahmins have been marginalised by successive governments on the basis of historical reasons,many of which may no longer be relevant.

Some also feel Brahmins are not as assertive as other communities,and their associations have little political clout or support even within the community.Political commentator Cho Ramaswamy summed it up with a brief opinion.

Brahmins are not wanted in Tamil Nadu,beyond that I do not want to comment.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Praveen Sir,

Greetings. You have surprised me with this message. This message must have moved you so much. Most middle class/ lower middle class caste brahmins in the villages and small towns went through this experience long back. Who ever could manage, went to Chennai (erstwhile Madras or pattinam) to seek a future; not everyone was lucky though. Well, that same situation has arrived to Chennai too, by the looks of it.

I have gone down a few times in my life; but every time I went down, I went down fighting. I am not going to write all my life details here. But as a fighting person, I personally think that everyone should be given an opportunity to fight. Sri.RVR already started an appeal to help poor and helpless caste brahmins. I don't differentiate between a poor caste brahmin or a poor Harijan. It hurts the same way in the lower abdomen when hungry, be it a caste Brahmin or a Harijan. I know, I have experienced it; I also have discussed the experience with other caste persons too.

I think we should collectively strive to support as many children as possible for higher studies. Our forum may participate in some constructive gesture too. I am sure, more matured and experienced members would come up with more detailed plan of actions. I look forward for such directions.

Note - Other FC and and some BC communities too suffered in the villages and in small towns. I mentioned caste Brahmin community since it is relevant to this thread.

Cheers!

 

[praveen]

Sri.Raghyji,

There are quite a few reasons why i posted this.

1. No one else did. Considering this has been published by a mainstream newspaper, i assumed someone would, but since no one seemed to have noticed it, i took the liberty of posting it.

2. This caught my attention.

Most poor Brahmins in and around Mylapore and Mambalam are not even aware of the state governments old age scheme

I can understand when the govt ignores them and discriminates them... but then the lack of awareness is quite startling considering the times we are in, where information travels at a much faster rate.

3. This is very much true.

Some also feel Brahmins are not as assertive as other communities,and their associations have little political clout or support even within the community.

In the last 3-4 years, i do not think the official ******* association has actually come up with anything that has made news. Be it as a form of opposition against the govt or in a sense giving a rallying call to the masses.
It is quite sad, the official association is run by a bunch of ************ who merely want to strengthen their ************************* while continue to ignore the people.

There is no point in blaming the govt simply because we all know it for a fact.

Summa pointing the finger at the govt when it is least bothered isnt going to help anyone. It is like, we are also trying to change the rules and get some benefits for us... to me it seems like a futile exercise, similar in trying to straighten the dog's tail.

I think we should collectively strive to support as many children as possible for higher studies. Our forum may participate in some constructive gesture too. I am sure, more matured and experienced members would come up with more detailed plan of actions. I look forward for such directions.

Without pointing fingers or singling out anyone, the platform is there... it's the ego within each and every one of us (myself included), that is preventing us from coming together with a plan of actions.

In the last 3-4 years of running this website, i have found that most are willing to sit back, relax and take things than give things. I am not talking about money. Every single day i get a min of 5-10 emails saying i want this, send me this, send me that...

When and if i do send them what they are asking, the sense of sharing it with the community is non-existent.

The regular brahmins out there are, i am sorry to say, a lot backward and have confined themselves to the services of god, temples and puja and have taken it as their fate.
they need to come out of this mindset and try to do other things. the oppurtunity is there, but the mindset is not letting them do things.

Only when the mindset of the common brahmin man/woman changes, however one tries to help them, they will still remain in the dark ages.

I am here, because my dad broke away from his "family tradition" of serving the temple and came to chennai for a better life. If he had continued in the same tradition, i dont think i would be sitting here typing this.

There are Brahmins who drive autos,carry bodies and take care of cremation and serve as waiters in restaurants

This is what makes me angry and makes me real mad.

What is wrong with driving an auto? carrying bodies and doing cremation works? or being a waiter?

End of the day, it pays you and helps you live another day. does it not? W** this mindset...
When we go to US/UK/Foreign countries, we do the same... i know a lot of brahmin boys/girls who drive cabs, work as a waiter and clean toilets etc...

if we can do it somewhere else for some ******** why can't they do it here?

In 2010, it is rubbish to talk about such things.
Brahmins should and must do everything.
If NB's (with grants/help) come to a good college, study and compete with our kids... why cant we do the same?
Ok, the colleges might be higher end of the scale... jobs such as what mentioned above is on the other hand.

As a brahmin, if i am going to do only xyz and refuse to do abc, then i dont see a way out...How long are they going to be dependent on some charitable trust?

The trusts (including the one that is being formed from RVR) can in all likelihood, help a few people... but they cannot help everyone..

they have to help themselves... and that happens only when the mindset changes...

Brahmins have been typically seen as god fearing, thayir sadham (curd rice) and those who work either in temples are vaadhiyaar's or hold high positions...

Well, things have changed in the last 25-30 years... the opposition have chosen to play a dirty game and we cannot forever stand back and say, we dont want to get our hands dirty...

take the fight to where it will hurt them most.. if they can take our positions, i am sure we can take their positions...

-----------------------------------------------
All that i have said above are only my personal views and does not reflect the views of the tamilbrahmins.com website nor it is an indication of the tamilbrahmins.com website's aim.

it is only the views of praveen - the member, praveen - the individual and lastly praveen - a brahmin who is sick and tired of hearing about the reluctance of our clan to change with times.

you are free to quote this against any of my future replies or discussions. If you assume these are the views of this website, then you are to be blamed for understanding it incorrectly..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[sangom]

The trusts (including the one that is being formed from RVR) can in all likelihood, help a few people... but they cannot help everyone..

Dear Praveen,

After reading many old threads and the exchanges going on for the last few months, I feel that there are more members here who would be happy to live in the old glory of brahmins, and are not really willing for any radical change in the mindset of the brahmin community.

Another point is the Trust/s will be able to help more people if the beneficiaries show some amount of gratefulness and return "something" of the aid enjoyed by them from the Trust. Previously when I made a mention of this in some thread, another member immediately snubbed saying if it was loan, it should have been done by competent banking experts, etc., and was not the job of such charitable trusts. What I am referring to is not "repayment" of loan but an attitude to help others just as one was helped.

If this change comes in the attitude of TBs that itself will be a great improvement, I think.

 

[praveen]

I feel that there are more members here who would be happy to live in the old glory of brahmins, and are not really willing for any radical change in the mindset of the brahmin community

I am not saying its not bad to live in the old glory, but if only they are willing to "accomodate" the new and accept/embrace it alongside the old, it would make a hell lot of a difference

What I am referring to is not "repayment" of loan but an attitude to help others just as one was helped.

Oh yes, Oh yes... the mindset and the attitude needs a major overhaul... they need not come out and do social service, but if they can help the ones doing it or atleast give back something for what they have received (need not be only money), it will still be of tremendous help.


-----------------------------------------------
All that i have said above are only my personal views and does not reflect the views of the tamilbrahmins.com website nor it is an indication of the tamilbrahmins.com website's aim.

it is only the views of praveen - the member, praveen - the individual and lastly praveen - a brahmin who is sick and tired of hearing about the reluctance of our clan to change with times.

you are free to quote this against any of my future replies or discussions. If you assume these are the views of this website, then you are to be blamed for understanding it incorrectly..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[prpsarathy]

I think we are missing some of the points. Those brahmin pandit who have come to the city has made their fortune. I can tell you with my own experience in chennai that our pandit has more number of houses in the city than probably even we have. he has made a flat for every children of his.

All evils of contracting start coming in the pandit profession. The main vatiyar takes all the cream and throw some bones to the junior. offcourse when the junior becomes the senior, the same story continues.

I donot thinks so the brahmin in profession are poor. They are well off with their tax free income will not be an understatement. Probably those brahmins who work in remote village and temple there off are in pathetic condition.

 

[Somayaji.S]

Helping the Elder generation with "Feeding"."Clothing"-"shelter" all -is huge Project.Involves a lot of money-I am told in Chennai the Cost of living has also reacheed astronomical figures-it seems difficult even for people who receive around Rs 10,000/= p.m. as Govt pension.Financing "Seniors" projects-fruits will NOT be that great.God should help them to come out of their ordeal. What WE the educated people can do is to help the T.B.Student community."Anna Chatram Aayiram Kattalinum,Saala Nanro-Aangor Ezhikku Ezhutthu Arivitthal"--Instead of asking for a common fund,a registered Society with Chennai as H.Q.under the Socities Registration Act 1860 ,(with MOA/Bye-laws) can be formed with some appropriate name and donations can be called for,in the name of the Society,with a provision for Income Tax Exemption(some 88 L or something like that).I am told to register a NON-Profit Society is NOT that costly.The Governing Body or the Executive committee may decide the modus operanti of distribution of funds to deserving T.B.Students.Those who are in Foreign Countries(US/UK/Canada) also can help by collecting Donations. Feed back and Honest criticisms about the "feasibility"for the suggestion may be given.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Praveen Ji and Sri Raghy Ji,

I agree with both of your sentiments. I have personally took up cab driving and dishwashing as jobs when I came to USA as a student, many many moons ago. I think our poor brethren are locked witin a boxed mindset. If only they are willing to step out of their jathi cocoon, they will find opportunities.

Regards,
KRS

 

[prpsarathy]

Helping the Elder generation with "Feeding"."Clothing"-"shelter" all -is huge Project.Involves a lot of money-I am told in Chennai the Cost of living has also reacheed astronomical figures-it seems difficult even for people who receive around Rs 10,000/= p.m. as Govt pension.Financing "Seniors" projects-fruits will NOT be that great.God should help them to come out of their ordeal. What WE the educated people can do is to help the T.B.Student community."Anna Chatram Aayiram Kattalinum,Saala Nanro-Aangor Ezhikku Ezhutthu Arivitthal"--Instead of asking for a common fund,a registered Society with Chennai as H.Q.under the Socities Registration Act 1860 ,(with MOA/Bye-laws) can be formed with some appropriate name and donations can be called for,in the name of the Society,with a provision for Income Tax Exemption(some 88 L or something like that).I am told to register a NON-Profit Society is NOT that costly.The Governing Body or the Executive committee may decide the modus operanti of distribution of funds to deserving T.B.Students.Those who are in Foreign Countries(US/UK/Canada) also can help by collecting Donations. Feed back and Honest criticisms about the "feasibility"for the suggestion may be given.

I am generally very skeptic about the trust concept. Invariably the trust are hijacked after sometime by the trustee. [ no blame ]. Concept must be adoption of an elderly person by every individual. It become an additional pension for the old person and he / she stays in the society. Home for the aged is nothing but a glorified orpanage.

 

[happyhindu]

As i see it, the probs towards making a beneficial (materialistic) future comes from:

a) Desensitization:
All of us have grown up seeing scenes of poverty. That has made us into desentitized individuals. We do not think there is something wrong with such scenes. We take it for granted.

b) Karma theory:
Even some gross materialists will (ab)use the karma theory -- according to them, they must have done so many good things in the past to enjoy life so much in the present. And ofcourse when someone suffers, folks will blame it on his karma.

Regards.

 

[nachi naga]

i think our website can transform ideas into reality based action.i feel praveen as a young person can lead.as it is naveena swayamvaram started well,maybe business ppl in the the forum can harness talents and skills globally.maybe,i can do my contribution as wel,lif i can be directed or contacted,i will gladdly contribute,thnx praveen.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri Praveen Ji and Sri Raghy Ji,

I agree with both of your sentiments. I have personally took up cab driving and dishwashing as jobs when I came to USA as a student, many many moons ago. I think our poor brethren are locked witin a boxed mindset. If only they are willing to step out of their jathi cocoon, they will find opportunities.

Regards,
KRS

Sri.KRS Sir,

You are agreeing with Sri.Praveen and Sri.Sangom's sentiments. Along with Sri.Praveen, it was Sri.Sangom who expressed his views about the need for radical change in the mentality. I agree with that line of thinking too. When I had an option to study a science degree (who knows how well I would have completed that? That's beside the point!), I took up apprenticeship and trade training (and I was ridiculed or viewed sympathetically by most of my relatives). Although I never earned big bucks, I have never been unemployed in my life. Now that major manufacturing industries have moved to Chennai and its outskirts, I can't see why there should be a scarcity of employment. I heard, for Hyundai car company, since there are not enough persons to man the assembly lines, persons as far from Arcot (75-80 Kms away) are transported everyday by company provided bus, subsidised B/Fast, Lunch along with a very decent pay cheque....a person should become hungry enough, I suppose!

Cheers!

 

[silverfox]

Bravo, Praveen!

A no-nonsense and thought-provoking posting! It is about time we did an introspection of ourselves!

Sri.Raghyji,

There are quite a few reasons why i posted this.

1. No one else did. Considering this has been published by a mainstream newspaper, i assumed someone would, but since no one seemed to have noticed it, i took the liberty of posting it.

2. This caught my attention.
I can understand when the govt ignores them and discriminates them... but then the lack of awareness is quite startling considering the times we are in, where information travels at a much faster rate.

3. This is very much true.
In the last 3-4 years, i do not think the official ******* association has actually come up with anything that has made news. Be it as a form of opposition against the govt or in a sense giving a rallying call to the masses.
It is quite sad, the official association is run by a bunch of ************ who merely want to strengthen their ************************* while continue to ignore the people.

There is no point in blaming the govt simply because we all know it for a fact.

Summa pointing the finger at the govt when it is least bothered isnt going to help anyone. It is like, we are also trying to change the rules and get some benefits for us... to me it seems like a futile exercise, similar in trying to straighten the dog's tail.


Without pointing fingers or singling out anyone, the platform is there... it's the ego within each and every one of us (myself included), that is preventing us from coming together with a plan of actions.

In the last 3-4 years of running this website, i have found that most are willing to sit back, relax and take things than give things. I am not talking about money. Every single day i get a min of 5-10 emails saying i want this, send me this, send me that...

When and if i do send them what they are asking, the sense of sharing it with the community is non-existent.

The regular brahmins out there are, i am sorry to say, a lot backward and have confined themselves to the services of god, temples and puja and have taken it as their fate.
they need to come out of this mindset and try to do other things. the oppurtunity is there, but the mindset is not letting them do things.

Only when the mindset of the common brahmin man/woman changes, however one tries to help them, they will still remain in the dark ages.

I am here, because my dad broke away from his "family tradition" of serving the temple and came to chennai for a better life. If he had continued in the same tradition, i dont think i would be sitting here typing this.

This is what makes me angry and makes me real mad.

What is wrong with driving an auto? carrying bodies and doing cremation works? or being a waiter?

End of the day, it pays you and helps you live another day. does it not? W** this mindset...
When we go to US/UK/Foreign countries, we do the same... i know a lot of brahmin boys/girls who drive cabs, work as a waiter and clean toilets etc...

if we can do it somewhere else for some ******** why can't they do it here?

In 2010, it is rubbish to talk about such things.
Brahmins should and must do everything.
If NB's (with grants/help) come to a good college, study and compete with our kids... why cant we do the same?
Ok, the colleges might be higher end of the scale... jobs such as what mentioned above is on the other hand.

As a brahmin, if i am going to do only xyz and refuse to do abc, then i dont see a way out...How long are they going to be dependent on some charitable trust?

The trusts (including the one that is being formed from RVR) can in all likelihood, help a few people... but they cannot help everyone..

they have to help themselves... and that happens only when the mindset changes...

Brahmins have been typically seen as god fearing, thayir sadham (curd rice) and those who work either in temples are vaadhiyaar's or hold high positions...

Well, things have changed in the last 25-30 years... the opposition have chosen to play a dirty game and we cannot forever stand back and say, we dont want to get our hands dirty...

take the fight to where it will hurt them most.. if they can take our positions, i am sure we can take their positions...

-----------------------------------------------
All that i have said above are only my personal views and does not reflect the views of the tamilbrahmins.com website nor it is an indication of the tamilbrahmins.com website's aim.

it is only the views of praveen - the member, praveen - the individual and lastly praveen - a brahmin who is sick and tired of hearing about the reluctance of our clan to change with times.

you are free to quote this against any of my future replies or discussions. If you assume these are the views of this website, then you are to be blamed for understanding it incorrectly..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Praveen said -

take the fight to where it will hurt them most.. if they can take our positions, i am sure we can take their positions...

Sri.Praveen Sir, Greetings. Cast Brahmins need not hurt anybody. Already a majority of them live with the stigma of having hurt someone for the last ...5,000 years? There are no our positions or their positions. There are positions. It is up to a community to seek to acequire as many positions as possible. The more position a community acquire, that would help the community to develop more positions. I think, the community has to think away from the usual rut. First and foremost is, any honourable job should be viewed equitably. Then only there can be a readiness to take up such a job.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Sri.KRS Sir,

You are agreeing with Sri.Praveen and Sri.Sangom's sentiments. Along with Sri.Praveen, it was Sri.Sangom who expressed his views about the need for radical change in the mentality. I agree with that line of thinking too. When I had an option to study a science degree (who knows how well I would have completed that? That's beside the point!), I took up apprenticeship and trade training (and I was ridiculed or viewed sympathetically by most of my relatives). Although I never earned big bucks, I have never been unemployed in my life. Now that major manufacturing industries have moved to Chennai and its outskirts, I can't see why there should be a scarcity of employment. I heard, for Hyundai car company, since there are not enough persons to man the assembly lines, persons as far from Arcot (75-80 Kms away) are transported everyday by company provided bus, subsidised B/Fast, Lunch along with a very decent pay cheque....a person should become hungry enough, I suppose!

Cheers!

I have mentioned, once or twice earlier, an earnest attempt by someone here in TVM some 30 years ago, to give financial assistance to needy boys and girls for their studies. As admissions to professional courses became more and more difficult and private colleges too costly for the poorer sections to afford, an attempt was made to goad our TB youngsters to hitherto uncharted (or less charted) courses like nursing, trade apprentices, certified electrician course, lathe operator etc., by giving larger percentage of expenses for such studies. The result was that there were no takers and the venerable old gentleman, who was the moving spirit behind this venture, got some adverse comments from some of the parents for asking brahmin boys and girls to take up "abrahmanic" jobs !! This happened about 10 years ago.

Hence it is the mindset of our people at large - not only those who visit this forum - which has to change. I think if some people who have ventured into new areas and succeeded in it, can give blogs or advertisements in this website itself, there will be more credibility and spread of the message to even people casually stumbling on to this website. I request Shri Praveen to consider this.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Sangom Sir,

My friend is a maintenance fitter; His daughter is studying in 2nd year engineering. My brother is a microbiology technician (handling stool, urine, sputum and such samples) in a very large hospital; both his children are studying masters in software development. I was a tradie all my life (now a Nurse); my son is micro-electronics Engineer. One person taking a step away from the usual rut will gurantee a steady income so that the children can be supported to reach greater heights.

You mentioned about Nursing. My class mate/ study partner was from 'Anganmaali'. Her father paid only for the first year studies; from the second year, she paid big bucks by earning here. Her father never sent a paisa after the first year (3 years course). Now she has completed her course, earns about $55,000 per annum. She is just a kid.
My nephew completed a trade course in India; with that trade, he migrated to Australia. Once after obtaining eligibility, studied part-time and completed an accountancy degree. Now he is employed in an accounting firm.
I can think of so many examples. 'Where there is a will, there is a way'. ' நாய் விற்ற காசு குரைப்பதில்லை!'. All the honorable jobs should be considered as decent job.

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

Sri.Praveen said -

Sri.Praveen Sir, Greetings. Cast Brahmins need not hurt anybody. Already a majority of them live with the stigma of having hurt someone for the last ...5,000 years? There are no our positions or their positions. There are positions. It is up to a community to seek to acequire as many positions as possible. The more position a community acquire, that would help the community to develop more positions. I think, the community has to think away from the usual rut. First and foremost is, any honourable job should be viewed equitably. Then only there can be a readiness to take up such a job.

Cheers!

:thumb: Very well put Shri Raghy...

(Sections of) Shastras have always allowed a brahmin to take others' jobs (trade and arms). However, they have never allowed others to take brahmin jobs.

It is only now, in the present political climate, that others are getting a chance to take up brahmin jobs (legally).

Therefore instead of making this into some sort of a caste-fight for positions, it is best to see position as they are -- just as positions. And as you have rightly put as: "There are no our positions or their positions. There are positions".

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Raghy Ji,

Yes, I agree with all three of your views. Did not intend any slight towards Sri Sangom Ji's ideas.

Regards,
KRS

Sri.KRS Sir,

You are agreeing with Sri.Praveen and Sri.Sangom's sentiments. Along with Sri.Praveen, it was Sri.Sangom who expressed his views about the need for radical change in the mentality. I agree with that line of thinking too. When I had an option to study a science degree (who knows how well I would have completed that? That's beside the point!), I took up apprenticeship and trade training (and I was ridiculed or viewed sympathetically by most of my relatives). Although I never earned big bucks, I have never been unemployed in my life. Now that major manufacturing industries have moved to Chennai and its outskirts, I can't see why there should be a scarcity of employment. I heard, for Hyundai car company, since there are not enough persons to man the assembly lines, persons as far from Arcot (75-80 Kms away) are transported everyday by company provided bus, subsidised B/Fast, Lunch along with a very decent pay cheque....a person should become hungry enough, I suppose!

Cheers!

 

[vmmrs]

brahmins fight for survival

Namaskarams to all. I am vmmrs in this sight and of course a recent entrant. With due respect to all the comments, suggestions, sympathies, advices that have been posted on this topic I venture to offer my feelings. First of all there is a feeling that all academic studies are aimed at white collered jobs. We should try to develop an attitude that no job is menial in nature and respect the dignity of labour. A boy who went for doing M.S. in U.S. was doing the job at restaurant to subsidise his living expenses. In the neighbouring apartment in chennai a dead crow inthe balacony sunshade of his flat was removed with a stick in a plastic bag by a Priest (the owner ) as the labourer was asking Rs.50 to remove it. I am only appreciating the value of the dignity of labour. Let us change our outlook and approach and put forth a valient fight for our respectful survival shedding our inhibitions.I do not rule out the helping hand of the affluent in this cause. GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES.:clap2:

 

[RKB]

Mindset or well set mind?

Almost every department in every private engineering college in Tamilnadu has at least one Brahmin Professor who has returned to India after working abroad. Though they may not agree, they are all a failure abroad. Even IIT - Madras has got many Professors of this category. But the real story is... almost all of them desire to come back to Brahmin way of living. They learn Rudhram, Chamakam, Divyaprabandam etc., and recite them with passion. Some of them earn additionally extending their service as 'sastris' or 'pandits' for rituals and ceremonies. One of them used his foreign connection effectively and is now a frequent flyer to almost all part of the world for conducting things from Kumbabishekam to Rudra homam. Yes, all his sons have very decent housing property at Chennai and Bangalore. Is it a mindset or well set mind?

Coming to priests at Temples, today the priests working at many temples in Chennai and major cities earn decently just from the temple. They also get influential connection to place there wards and buy property. They get opportunity to befriend influential devotees and so carry on life splendidly. Priests of temples like Kapaleeshwarar temple have also learned to serve both the God and their pseudo bosses of Hindu Religious Endowment Board simultaneously for a secure career. It is true that they also get plenty of Foreign travel opportunities nowadays! They reap the reward for a well set mind.

But there are many flip sides to it....

1. Not all the priest in every town are bestowed with such earnings. Even in Chennai, a priest working as a support priest to a chief priest (if he is not having regular income from teaching at Engineering college) has a deplorable living condition. Some have to live such a life for at least 20 to 25 years till they are acknowledged as a sort of chief priest. The fact is that they are in demand. But they are not paid adequately. It is like being an Auto driver... you just has to pull along.

2. The worst is those who attend to 'dead body'. It is not a job like in foreign countries. It is a ritual requiring a Brahmin. India has got demand for absorbing all the forward thinking Brahmins who have migrated abroad with openness to do any job for living a life as such Brahmin. Will these people take it as a challenge and return to India?

3.......There are many such flip sides. None in India are deliberately poor. It is true that they are accustomed to ordinary life. But it doesn't mean that they are suffering from a mind set. An Auto driver or a Lorry driver or a Cab driver are also learning to live here against all odds but it is foolish to think that they have a living comparable to an Auto driver or Truck driver in USA. What is expected is that a Brahmin trying to learn living a life as an Auto driver has to get all the support from the Government as an Auto drivers of other communities.

When vital -few affluent Brahmins are very much visible, the Government and the society is blind to the trivial - many Brahmins. Overall the Brahmin community is very backward compared with any other community enjoying the status of BC, MBC, OBC etc privileges. Even the affluent Brahmin suffer because of not deprived previleges from the Government and the Society. This affluent Brahmin spending all his wealth to give good education to his ward to score 85% in the Board exam finally gets dejected after seeing all those who have just scored 65% in the class of his son and daughter easily gaining better opportunities. This man alone has to pay 10lakhs to 'Kalvi Thanthai' to secure a Management Quota seat. Please note that none of the 'Kalvi Thanthais' are a Brahmin. Even the so called Brahmin colleges are being forced to discriminate Brahmins! Even 'Sankara Mutt' is helpless in this regard. This is the predicament of people in THAMBRAS.

Therefore 'Cho' is correct. But the solution is not in running away from the problem. All the Brahmins has to fight for the privileges of every Brahmin. The 'scheme of affluent helping the poor' cannot work if the mood is to drive away all the Brahmins. Do we have an action plan for this?

It is quite sad, the official association is run by a bunch of ************ who merely want to strengthen their ************************* while continue to ignore the people.

There is no point in blaming the govt simply because we all know it for a fact.

The regular brahmins out there are, i am sorry to say, a lot backward and have confined themselves to the services of god, temples and puja and have taken it as their fate.
they need to come out of this mindset and try to do other things. the oppurtunity is there, but the mindset is not letting them do things.

Only when the mindset of the common brahmin man/woman changes, however one tries to help them, they will still remain in the dark ages.

This is what makes me angry and makes me real mad.

What is wrong with driving an auto? carrying bodies and doing cremation works? or being a waiter?

End of the day, it pays you and helps you live another day. does it not? W** this mindset...
When we go to US/UK/Foreign countries, we do the same... i know a lot of brahmin boys/girls who drive cabs, work as a waiter and clean toilets etc...

if we can do it somewhere else for some ******** why can't they do it here?

 

[kunjuppu]

. Do we have an action plan for this?

rkb,

what is your plan? how do you plan to organize this? instead of asking others to bear the brunt of the work, why don't you give leadership, instead of constantly complaining elaborately. all your points are welll taken. now we hope you can come up with and do some work.

thank you.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.RKB said -

Almost every department in every private engineering college in Tamilnadu has at least one Brahmin Professor who has returned to India after working abroad. Though they may not agree, they are all a failure abroad. Even IIT - Madras has got many Professors of this category.

Sri, RKB Sir, Greetings. This is painting them with a broad brush. I do not know about other countries, but in Australia, most if not all professors work under renewable contracts ( irrespective to their nationality. Aussie professors too go through the same procedure). For them, it is mostly நித்திய கண்டம் , பூர்ணாயுசு situation. So many professors keep changing. Nothing failure about it. If some professors seek more stable position in India, it would just be normal.

They learn Rudhram, Chamakam, Divyaprabandam etc., and recite them with passion. Some of them earn additionally extending their service as 'sastris' or 'pandits' for rituals and ceremonies. One of them used his foreign connection effectively and is now a frequent flyer to almost all part of the world for conducting things from Kumbabishekam to Rudra homam. Yes, all his sons have very decent housing property at Chennai and Bangalore. Is it a mindset or well set mind?

When I read this, I was smiling. Rudram, Chamakam.....Sir, I was reciting them besides few other slokams by rote. If few persons found some niche market, why not? Well, that is my opinion anyway.

The worst is those who attend to 'dead body'. It is not a job like in foreign countries. It is a ritual requiring a Brahmin. India has got demand for absorbing all the forward thinking Brahmins who have migrated abroad with openness to do any job for living a life as such Brahmin. Will these people take it as a challenge and return to India?

Sir, Why should attending to a dead be any different to a foreign country? Kindly trust me, it is not any different. I am saying from my experience. Making anything a ritual is from our our mentality; not all the bodies in India gets attended by a Brahmin. So, what about those bodies? Importantantly, what is in a body? We talk so high about 'Tat Tvam Asi', 'Advaitham', 'Saranagathy' and what not; but we don't fail to follow narrow guide lines even after death! I will take up any decent job. I have the experience of handling dead bodies; I even have the experience of guiding persons through dying process. On two occassions I was holding their hand in reassurance while they passed away (one gentleman passed away with a content smile!). So kindly make arrangements; I am more than happy to take up the job. What's more, I have the training and experience to counsel the family during their loss. (I work regularly in an aged care facility. People are there in the last leg of their life. Part of my job is to make it easy and enjoyable for them. As one can imagine, I have seen many pass away, some of them while I was on duty). I am not issuing a silly reply; When can I start, please? I am planning to becoming a frequent flyer hopefully after 5 or 6 years. If that's going to be my job, so be it!

Sir, if a job does not pay sustainable income, one should seek an alternative job. Just continuing in a job for a principle is good, provided one should not complain at the same time.

But the solution is not in running away from the problem. All the Brahmins has to fight for the privileges of every Brahmin. The 'scheme of affluent helping the poor' cannot work if the mood is to drive away all the Brahmins. Do we have an action plan for this?

Are you looking for a plan to counter 'the mood to drive away all the Brahmins'? Sir, I don't think we can have a plan for that, in my opinion. If we try to change other's mind, our rate of success may not be great; but if we try to change our mentality, our thinking pattern, we can expect a high rate of success. In my opinion, an action should address a change in our mentality, in my opinion.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Praveen said - ( I did some editing. Hope Sri.Praveen would not mind)...

As a brahmin, if i am going to do only xyz and refuse to do abc, then i dont see a way out...How long are they going to be dependent on some charitable trust?

The trusts can in all likelihood, help a few people... but they cannot help everyone..

they have to help themselves... and that happens only when the mindset changes...

Respectable members,

Sri.Praveen nailed the problem in the above quoted message. Sow.Happy Hindu said so many times that Caste Brahmins have an advantage over other castes when it comes to obtaining employment. She was right all the time. By the way, any plan to improve the situation explained in the article has to be realised only by the affected. The fruits can be enjoyed only by the ones who dare.

Although it is not my usual practice, in this thread I am focusing on caste brahmin community since the subject is such. Caste Brahmins have buckley's chance obtaining state Government job; slightly better chance in obtaining central Government jobs. So, I am not addressing Government jobs at all. Government jobs don't make the larger chunk of job available anyway. Majority of jobs are in the privatte sector. Jobs are available from தோட்டி வேலை முதல் தொண்டைமான் வேலை வரையும, all the jobs in between are for the taking. A caste Brahmin can apply for any of these jobs just like any other person. I am not going to getting in to appearence, influence or presentations. Let's consider all the other things equitable. So, why Bramins would have an edge? Well, there are jobs specific to Caste brahmin community like புரோஹிதம் jobs and the possible influence from such jobs are the extra edge. Even if NBs study to become a temple priest, their edge is limited in புரோஹிதம் jobs. To start with, such புரோஹிதம் jobs are abundant only in Caste Brahmin house; even in my case, if I can't get a Vadhiyar, I will start 'do it yourself புரோஹிதம்!'. It is not a wild idea either. For example, in Fiji Islands, for every hindu poojas like Lakshmi pooja, Janmashtami etc, Hindus buy the 'pooja kit' and get ready to start; the poojas are guided step by step in radio taking the people through the whole pooja! (More enterprising Hindus taped such programme and used it in Australia to conduct 'do it yourself' pooja).

The bottom line is, we should take out the 'superiority complex' in the so called 'brahmin jobs'. Superiority is not in the job; it is in the way we perform the job, be it a தோட்டி வேலை or a தொண்டைமான் வேலை. We perform a job to our mental satisfaction. If we think like that we will have many jobs to choose from!

Cheers!

 

[praveen]

There are no our positions or their positions. There are positions

I stand corrected Raghyji. Lets say in the heat of typing things out, i did make it look like a caste vs caste thing.

Yes, end of the day, a job is a job whatever it might be.

A boy who went for doing M.S. in U.S. was doing the job at restaurant to subsidise his living expenses.

Will that boy do the same job here in india/chennai? i dont think so.

We should try to develop an attitude that no job is menial in nature and respect the dignity of labour.

Let us change our outlook and approach and put forth a valient fight for our respectful survival shedding our inhibitions.I do not rule out the helping hand of the affluent in this cause.

Affluent hand(s) has limits... it can only help less than 10 percent of the population
I am saying dont be dependent on someone else (individual or organization). Stand up for your life and do something about it.

When vital -few affluent Brahmins are very much visible, the Government and the society is blind to the trivial - many Brahmins.
Overall the Brahmin community is very backward compared with any other community enjoying the status of BC, MBC, OBC etc privileges. Even the affluent Brahmin suffer because of not deprived previleges from the Government and the Society. This affluent Brahmin spending all his wealth to give good education to his ward to score 85% in the Board exam finally gets dejected after seeing all those who have just scored 65% in the class of his son and daughter easily gaining better opportunities.

The govt has been blind for more than 10-20 years (correct me if i am wrong with regards to the number of years). So it is like beating a dead body. absolutely no use. move away and stop making the govt as a scapegoat for our problems.

Again it is our mindset that a brahmin boy/girl are generally well educated and due to the actions of the previous generation the bar has been raised to such an extent if someone gets less than 85% he or she is looked down...

I did not get 85%.. i only got 60% (thats a fact). when i applied for a college seat, vivekananda college in mylapore refused to give me seat. Loyola college was ready for a fee... but instead i chose AM Jain college in meenambakkam. This was in 1997.
I very well remember, only 2-3 brahmin boys out of (50 odd?) who studied in colleges outside city.

rest of them paid the "Kalvi Thanthais" and studied in reputed colleges. a few well todo encourage these "Kalvi Thanthais" and the rest suffers.

Even the so called Brahmin colleges are being forced to discriminate Brahmins! Even 'Sankara Mutt' is helpless in this regard. This is the predicament of people in THAMBRAS.

again, correct me if i am wrong.
as far as i am aware colleges have to be open for all communities irrespective of the name. u have to abide by govt rules unfortunately.
Where does THAMBRAS come into picture?

In my view, the Thambras association is a namesake organization intended to increase the profile of a few ppl while fooling itself and the community of being the organization for the upliftment of brahmins. I dont deny they are doing some good services. but the bad outweighs the good.

For a period of 2 years (2006-2008) myself and Silverfox tried to speak to someone in Thambras but till date no one has come forward and talked to us.
The Hindu newspaper is another shamble. less said the better. they should rename as The Non-Hindu newspaper...

Do we have an action plan for this?

i second Kunjuppu and Raghy on this.

rkb,

what is your plan? how do you plan to organize this? instead of asking others to bear the brunt of the work, why don't you give leadership, instead of constantly complaining elaborately. all your points are welll taken. now we hope you can come up with and do some work.

thank you.

Are you looking for a plan to counter 'the mood to drive away all the Brahmins'? Sir, I don't think we can have a plan for that, in my opinion. If we try to change other's mind, our rate of success may not be great; but if we try to change our mentality, our thinking pattern, we can expect a high rate of success. In my opinion, an action should address a change in our mentality, in my opinion.

Sri.Praveen said - ( I did some editing. Hope Sri.Praveen would not mind)...

Absolutely np be my guest


Just to add a little bit more...

Couple of months ago, i was looking to get something changed/developed for this website. Based on interactions with a few members here and outside, i reached out to a few companies run by brahmins and also to some brahmin individuals for a quote and at the same time tried to find out if they can do this "as a service" and charge minimal rates.

All of them refused to do the work as service and instead quoted me rates that were beyond my means at that time.

Same work same specifications i got it done for 75% less than what was quoted by our guys from someone else who is not a brahmin . And even at this moment, when i tell him about the specifics, he makes it a point to research about us and then offers me suggestions.

not sure if it adds any value to this discussion, but i just thought of sharing.

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All that i have said above are only my personal views and does not reflect the views of the tamilbrahmins.com website nor it is an indication of the tamilbrahmins.com website's aim.

it is only the views of praveen - the member, praveen - the individual and lastly praveen - a brahmin who is sick and tired of hearing about the reluctance of our clan to change with times.

you are free to quote this against any of my future replies or discussions. If you assume these are the views of this website, then you are to be blamed for understanding it incorrectly..
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[vmmrs]

Brahmins fight for survival

Dear learned all Namaskaram. The thought provoking and soul stirring discussions on this topic has prompted me to highlight this live situation. The CAT is very much active before us and everybody with a bell in hand (including me) are looking at each other. Coming tothe incident, a 32 year old lad was very active in the religious matters including faithfully enchanting all the mantras during the upanayanam function of my grandson during May09 at chennai. He hails from Tirunelveli. His mother holds a Doctorate in Hindi and the younger brother is decently employed. This lad has acquired a post graduate degree through correspondence after doing a regular graduation.His father left for heavenly abode when he was young. Unable to find any employment he did adhyayanam and acquired proficiency in Yajur vedam. I engaged him for fortnight more for tutoring the thrikala sandhya vandhanam to my grandson and helped his financially adequately for this task. His problem is that no brahmin girl is prepared to marry him because he is educated but having a decent income. He is not able to be fulltime vadhyar because he is not married and did not do adhyanam in younger years. On the day of leaving he posed a question to me " no brahmin girl is ready even from a poor family to marry me. What is wrong if I marry a girl from other caste". I am still dumb bound. The culture inme (whether it is there in me) does not have the courage to accept this . But my heart tells what is wrong. Will I be able to accept this man as my vadhyar for shrardham etc. in case this marriage materialises. As a social animal will I have the courage to recognise this. I require enlightment:wof: