Deeksha/Initiation for Sale

[zunedune]

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Why is that modern age gurus give deekshas day in and day out in 10s and 100s? Isn't deeksha an embodiment of Guru's grace on an ardent disciple? I see that even contemporary gurus/god-men of higher reputes (I don't want to name them) are doing it in hundreds. How can a guru give deeksha without having tested the disciple on his/her steadfast path for realization? Doesn't this one factor demean the power of deekshai?

To quote an example, I recently saw in a vijay tv program for rajnikanth's birthday, one of Rajnikanth's friend said that Rajni laid a condition that he would go to meet his friends' guruji if he can give him kriya yoga deeksha. And this friend laid this condition to the guruji who agreed. How ridiculous this whole thought of deekshai given on demand! Isn't deeksha something given out of sheer compassion for the disciple after guru's realization of disciples' readiness. Why are these modern age gurus making ridicule out of divine sadhanas?

Or am I being immatured in assuming that deekshai isn't something to be rendered out of sheer compassion by the person of higher realization after rigorously testing the disciple and absolutely being ascertain on one's readiness? Can the wise people of this forum share your thoughts on this predicament please?

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Sri "zunedune",

This reminds me of an incident I had to face some years ago. I wanted to become a member of the Library at Sri Ramakrishna Mutt, Basavangudi, Bangalore. When I enquired for the details and forms, I was asked by the Brahmachari in charge of the Library, whether I had taken Deekasha from Swamiji Maharaj of the Mutt. I asked the youngster, what Deekasha had to do with membership of library, he could not reply convincingly, instead he said it was required as per the rules. Since I was not interested in taking Deeksha from any body, I came out without answering the question.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,

Bangalore.
​

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Sri.Brahmanyan said:

This reminds me of an incident I had to face some years ago. I wanted to become a member of the Library at Sri Ramakrishna Mutt, Basavangudi, Bangalore. When I enquired for the details and forms, I was asked by the Brahmachari in charge of the Library, whether I had taken Deekasha from Swamiji Maharaj of the Mutt. I asked the youngster, what Deekasha had to do with membership of library, he could not reply convincingly, instead he said it was required as per the rules. Since I was not interested in taking Deeksha from any body, I came out without answering the question.

Dear Sri. Brahmanyan,
I have recorded in some other thread that I was a regular visitor to Ramakrishna Mutt, Secunderabad from 1975 to1979.
I was admitted as member in their Library without insisting on taking 'Deeksha'.
Myself and My wife took initiation from SWAMI.VIRESWARANANDAJI( HE WAS PRESIDENT OF ALL THE RAMAKRISHNA MUTTS & a direct disciple oh HOLY MOTHER SARADA DEVIin the year 1979 when he visited the Secunderabad Branch. I think he visited Ramakrishna Mutt, Secunderabad as they were shifting from MONDa MARKET area,Secunderabad to a spacious place near TANK BUND. We took the initiation on our own.There was no compulsion from anyone.It is really surprising to know your experience.It is possible they have made some changes in their procedure after 1979.
With Best Wishes,
B.Krishnamurthy

 

[SALEM]

To:Zunedune: Deekshi/initiation. Most of the self styeled Modern Gurus and Yoga Teachers mainly Money minded. But Initiation is must for a person to Progress in his spiritual upliftment, with out Gurus guidelines one could not proceed further. Hence Deekhsi/Initiation compulsory.Initiation having various methods and only a Marked Soul will get the Perfect Master and get initiation. A perfect Master will never Advertise Himself as a Master or A GURu. He will never accept any money or other kind from his Disciples. He will never asked any one to fall on his feet. He awakens the soul, the in-dweller of the body,and gives unfailing guidance to those already initiated. And A True Master does not perform miracles for show. I will post a topic on Guru. s.r.k.

 

[sangom]

... But Initiation is must for a person to Progress in his spiritual upliftment, with out Gurus guidelines one could not proceed further.

.....

I will post a topic on Guru. s.r.k.

Shri S.R.K. (Salem)

I do not think any of our dharmasastras mention of "deeksha-giving" gurus, nor do they say that spititual progress is impossible without a guru.

These concepts are later additions to hindu belief which originated because the Samkhya-Yoga adherents gradually came under the influence of "tantra". Tantra systems of all varieties require a guru and the guru is not only essential but also the supreme master of the Sishya.

Adisankara for example did not say anything about the essentiality of guru; he emphasized 'nididhyaasana' or pondering about one's self. It was exactly such pondering (I am deliberately not using the word 'dhyaana' or 'meditation' because these terms also have come to be associated with the yoga system, kundalini of the tantra system, etc.) What Sankara recommends is nididhyasana, profound and repeated contemplation, and Ramana maharshi is one example of this, IMO.

It is a mere superstition of modern times to believe that without a spiritual guru and deeksha etc., one cannot progress "spiritually".

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Sangom,
"GURU" has been given a respectable position in Hindu Traditions.In earlier times, knowledge was imparted only through'Gurukul system'. Can we not assume that people who got knowledge through a Guru also got initiation through a GURU only.
I would like to recall an event in the year 1970 when I was in Rajahmundry,Andhra.My neighbour invited me for a pooja being conducted in his house.He also told me that the person who will be doing pooja is a Tamilian
(Aravam valu).
After the pooja I interacted with that person.He told me he got spiritual experience when he was 12 years old while staying with his parents in Malaysia and he has come down to INDIA to further his spiritual knowledge.
When I asked him as to why he is wearing 'white dress' instead of 'kavi vastra' being a sanyasi and who is 'Guru', he replied me that he has adopted "Swami Ramalinga Adigal" as his manasika Guru and so wearing white dress.
I think we had the concept of "GURU" in our traditions.I feel I am not competent to discuss about modern "GURUs" especially after hearing a lecture from one modern guru who propagates the "SREE VIDHYA" concept of worship,Kundalini Sakthi etc(www.Shivyog.com).He gives lot of positive values and one being "Do not be judgemental" without having basic knowledge.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri.Sangom,
"GURU" has been given a respectable position in Hindu Traditions.In earlier times, knowledge was imparted only through'Gurukul system'. Can we not assume that people who got knowledge through a Guru also got initiation through a GURU only.
I would like to recall an event in the year 1970 when I was in Rajahmundry,Andhra.My neighbour invited me for a pooja being conducted in his house.He also told me that the person who will be doing pooja is a Tamilian
(Aravam valu).
After the pooja I interacted with that person.He told me he got spiritual experience when he was 12 years old while staying with his parents in Malaysia and he has come down to INDIA to further his spiritual knowledge.
When I asked him as to why he is wearing 'white dress' instead of 'kavi vastra' being a sanyasi and who is 'Guru', he replied me that he has adopted "Swami Ramalinga Adigal" as his manasika Guru and so wearing white dress.
I think we had the concept of "GURU" in our traditions.I feel I am not competent to discuss about modern "GURUs" especially after hearing a lecture from one modern guru who propagates the "SREE VIDHYA" concept of worship,Kundalini Sakthi etc(www.Shivyog.com).He gives lot of positive values and one being "Do not be judgemental" without having basic knowledge.

Shri Krishnamurthy sir,

i agree that the "teacher" was always called "guru". But to the extent I have read, the ancient system depicted by our Upanishads and Dharmasastras never mention about a 'guru' giving initiation of the type now we have for consideration. Even in Taittireeya or Chandogya, the guru asks questions and makes the aspirant to contemplate, something like the Zen system, but there is no mention of a 'mantra' or 'beejaakshara' or something like that. The famous "Om namassivaaya" appears as "nama: sivaaya ca" in the yajus and the interested parties have made the pancaaksharam from it. IMHO, all these trends began with the Puranic period when all sorts of stories were turned out into pseudo-scriptures, labelled puranas. IMHO, this reform was probably necessitated to counter the influence of the emerging of Mahayana Buddhism and the Vajrayana therefrom, from attracting people away from the vedic religion; Vajrayana is tantric buddhism which, if Buddha would not have permitted, had he himself been around, I believe.

 

[SALEM]

To Sangom sir, You are little bit confused, The system of Brahmacharya starts from a Guru and in olden days the POOnul was offered to a disciple is by a Guru only, now a days this become a custom and made compulsory for Brahmins. In this world was made by GOD and that day onwards GURUs also send by GOD to help the Mankind to selfrealization and god realization. s.r.k.

 

[sangom]

... The system of Brahmacharya starts from a Guru and in olden days the POOnul was offered to a disciple is by a Guru only, now a days this become a custom and made compulsory for Brahmins.

Shri S.R.K.,

Will you kindly give the texts/other references on which you base the above observation, in blue.

 

[SwamiTaBra]

i agree that the "teacher" was always called "guru". .

The term "Guru" is used quite loosely now. A teacher is an "adhapaka" and "archarya" usually refers to someone who besides a teacher is also a custodian of a line of thinking/doctrine. There is also a term "updhaya".

Rgds.
Swami

 

[SwamiTaBra]

i agree that the "teacher" was always called "guru". .

The term "Guru" is used quite loosely now. A teacher is an "adhapaka" and "archarya" usually refers to someone who besides an eminent teacher is also a custodian of a school of thinking/doctrine. There is also a term "upadhaya".

Rgds.
Swami

 

[saarangam]

The Sanskrit - English dictionary gives the following meanings:
adhyApaka - teacher
guru - teacher
AchArya - teacher or a spititual guide
So IMO the use of the word guru to mean a teacher is quite right.Also we know the heads of the maThams are designated as AchAryAs as they are spiritual guides.

 

[kahanam]

Where the longing for selfrealisation is there, for a good soul there need not be any Guru in Physical form, though progress may be faster with a true Guru watching the Sishya. God Himself can be taken as one's own Guru and the practice at seeking selfrealisation can be continued keeping Him in your mind always. Regarding Upanayanam ceremony, the father or the elder person who gives the Gayatri Upadesam himself is the Guru for the disciple son or ward.And the Gayatri is the greatest Mantra to be revealed!

 

[SALEM]

Kahanam sir, for God realization first one should know selfrealization for that one nead a Guru. For every teaching there is guru required, With out guru no one can cross the life of ocean ,guru is the Captan of the ship ,so every one need a initiation or deeksha. s.r.k.

 

[kahanam]

Sri Salem, The point is that a true Guru will grab the disciple at an appropriate time and place. People who are fortunate will get the Guru definitely in this birth itself in physical form. If one is not fortunate that way, God Himself will be one's Guru, if one longs for Him.
I do not know, many of us constantly see Mahans, that experience will definitely take us upwards. Some of us fall prey to false ones, masquerading as Gurus. There one has to be careful.Even Lord Dattareya, a great Guru Himself, has revealed that He had many Gurus from Nature, People of all ages, walks of life etc!

 

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To: Kahanam Sir: You are right that is Only Marked Soul's will get a True master. s.r.k.