does shastra exactly say dat a gal cannot b elder 2 da guy she marries???

[rmadhumitha13]

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people say dat shastras dont allow gals 2 marry guys younger 2 dem... i hav done a lot of studies n referred various books on vedas n shastra but cudn find da source.. if der s nythin lik dat, kindly help me out n giv me da source....

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

No. The Sasthras do not say that. It is a tradition in most of the communities in India. But not all of them. Kasturiba was older than Mahatma Gandhi.

Most of our practices today are based on tradition and not Sasthra. So you can not expect any relief by finding out that there is no such injunction in the sasthras. Sorry.

 

[rmadhumitha13]

thank u sir.. so its jus da tradition n not da sasthras... n people jus think it as sasthram....

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I will elaborate my post.

Any set of rules can not cover all possible contingencies. Sasthras are a set of rules.

Now there are two ways of interpreting the rules.

1. What ever is not explicitly permitted is prohibited.

2. Whatever is not explicitly prohibited is permitted.

Most people in India follow the first way. That is

1. What ever is not explicitly permitted is prohibited.

I have had long arguments with government departments because I follow the second way. That is

2. Whatever is not explicitly prohibited is permitted.

To quote an example. Sasthras say that the son should perform the final rites. They do not say that the daughter can not perform the final rites. So I interpret that the daughter can perform the final rites. The son is called Puthra because he saves his parents from Puth. But then daughter is also called Puthri. So daughter also can do the same thing.

This is applicable to Sasthras.

 

[Nara]

people say dat shastras dont allow gals 2 marry guys younger 2 dem... i hav done a lot of studies n referred various books on vedas n shastra but cudn find da source.. if der s nythin lik dat, kindly help me out n giv me da source....

My comment is a distraction, read on if you don't mind....

is dis da fuchr of inglis?

 

[kunjuppu]

....

is dis da fuchr of inglis?

lol

 

[KRS]

I whopp knott!

My comment is a distraction, read on if you don't mind....

is dis da fuchr of inglis?

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Post 5 & 7 are kuet (cute)!!

 

[siganeswarie]

Nothing say about that only human or individual believe that
true love can fight the differences ages

 

[pviyer]

This can be verified only by referring to Vaidyanatha dikshithyam . Does anyone have a copy of the book here. It is the most authoritative book on shastras that we have.
But we must refer to the precedent set by our ancestors in this regard, not necessarily to blindly follow , but to understand their logic. Not all things are explicitly mentioned in shastras.It is declared that one must learn "other rules of conduct" from the general society. If men start marrying women older to them this will lead to all kinds of vipareetham, which I dont even want to discuss. There are always exceptions but it must be under a meritorious reason. There are other rules such as compatibility which is an important consideration. Except for a small section of the country 95% of the country does not have such a precedent and there is no need to make it a precedent unless there is a serious necessity. With or without love, I will never accept such an instance should it occur with my children, no matter who the groom may be, no matter what . Not everything that is permitted by shastras( even if it allows this) should be followed unless there is a real exceptional reason. I feel that to prevent such exceptional circumstances from being disallowed the shastras have not banned them. But then shastras allow consumption of certain forms of fish,shraddha with meat. Considering the maturity of society certain things have been banned. These have not been banned by some x , y or z. This has been banned by leading shastragyanis and sages.So this should also be considered as a shastra- why should only apastamba's rule be followed?At this point of time there is dramatic disunity in family. Husband and wife relationships are not satisfactory when taking the whole society for consideration. But worser than this , we dont have extraordinary saints with us and even if there is good understanding between husband and wife, nobody is following their duties properly. Men dont have time to do sandhyavandam but have time to watch television, women dont have time to take care of kids( leave them with grand parents) but have time for board meetings. At this point my kind request dont make such dramatic changes to disturb social setup when husband and wife relationships are getting redefined.

I am personally clear, if somebody in my family married in such unconventional way, they are banned from my home!

 

[pviyer]

As a note, there is someone who has already answered this question earlier. http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/1255-women-marrying-younger-men-4.html
Vaidyanatha dikshithyam is clear on the prohibition. May be this rule can be looked back at some future century when women and men have started following other rules of dharma which are prescribed by shastras. One should not look for loop holes in shastras and before advocating things about which some shastras dont explicitly prohibit nor explicitly prescribe, one must follow the prescriptions and prohibitions of the shastras, then deal with the grey unknown areas. It is then that we gauge the impact of it on society. Best regards

 

[kunjuppu]

..I am personally clear, if somebody in my family married in such unconventional way, they are banned from my home!

pv,

pray please do not be so hard on yourself.

just imagine a situation, where your child is in love and wants to get married.

Also let it be, that everything about the couple is to your satisfaction ie same caste, different gothram, great jobs, wonderful families, really attractive looking both of them etc etc.

except that the girl is one day older than the boy.

Would you be living with your pride intact under this self imposed lakshman rekha and in the process make so many people unhappy?

Always leave a sligt gap in the rear door, I say. For escape purposes.

 

[sangom]

pv,

pray please do not be so hard on yourself.

just imagine a situation, where your child is in love and wants to get married.

Also let it be, that everything about the couple is to your satisfaction ie same caste, different gothram, great jobs, wonderful families, really attractive looking both of them etc etc.

except that the girl is one day older than the boy.

Would you be living with your pride intact under this self imposed lakshman rekha and in the process make so many people unhappy?

Always leave a sligt gap in the rear door, I say. For escape purposes.

Shri Kunjuppu,

Last night I typed my response, before your posting, but probably forgot to click the "post" button. I would request Shri Iyer to see this post here. Now Vaidyanatha Dikshiteeyam (I have the book) is silent about any exceptions to the rule laid down therein. Hence it must be followed, if iyer's rule is impartial. But will Iyer agree to child marriage now or will he be prepared to do the penalty prescribed in case he becomes liable?

So, one Marwari (Shri Sarda) piloting a bill and some bunch of non-Brahmans making it into a legislation called Sarda Act makes Yama Smruti's learned opinion completely irrelevant; not only that if Iyer or anyone else is so ardent to follow Yama's rule and get their daughter married before the girl reaches 10 years, they (the parents) can be jailed even!!

I would earnestly request Shri Iyer and others who think on the same lines as he does, to pause, think and decide how sincere they are to the so-called Vaidyanatha Dikshitiyam itself, let alone the ancient Smritis proper.

Lastly, I sm sure that if any one of us is foolish enough to "ban" our children or the younger generations, it will be us we will be banning into a corner, and, in our last moments here on this earth we won't even have even one person to take care of us. Instead of the "dukrinj karane" of Bhajagovindam, we can say "nahi nahi rakshati 'banning' karane".

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

This can be verified only by referring to Vaidyanatha dikshithyam . Does anyone have a copy of the book here. It is the most authoritative book on shastras that we have.
But we must refer to the precedent set by our ancestors in this regard, not necessarily to blindly follow , but to understand their logic. Not all things are explicitly mentioned in shastras.It is declared that one must learn "other rules of conduct" from the general society. If men start marrying women older to them this will lead to all kinds of vipareetham, which I dont even want to discuss. There are always exceptions but it must be under a meritorious reason. There are other rules such as compatibility which is an important consideration. Except for a small section of the country 95% of the country does not have such a precedent and there is no need to make it a precedent unless there is a serious necessity. With or without love, I will never accept such an instance should it occur with my children, no matter who the groom may be, no matter what . Not everything that is permitted by shastras( even if it allows this) should be followed unless there is a real exceptional reason. I feel that to prevent such exceptional circumstances from being disallowed the shastras have not banned them. But then shastras allow consumption of certain forms of fish,shraddha with meat. Considering the maturity of society certain things have been banned. These have not been banned by some x , y or z. This has been banned by leading shastragyanis and sages.So this should also be considered as a shastra- why should only apastamba's rule be followed?At this point of time there is dramatic disunity in family. Husband and wife relationships are not satisfactory when taking the whole society for consideration. But worser than this , we dont have extraordinary saints with us and even if there is good understanding between husband and wife, nobody is following their duties properly. Men dont have time to do sandhyavandam but have time to watch television, women dont have time to take care of kids( leave them with grand parents) but have time for board meetings. At this point my kind request dont make such dramatic changes to disturb social setup when husband and wife relationships are getting redefined.

I am personally clear, if somebody in my family married in such unconventional way, they are banned from my home!

I have not heard of Vaidyanatha Dikshithyam. The most authoritative book on Dharmasasthra is the Samshepa Dharmasasthra compiled by Manjakudi Venkatrama Sasthirigal as per the instructions of Paramacharya. Vaidyanatha Dikshithyam is not a recognized Smiriti or Vakyanam.

This is not prohibited as per Samshepa Dharmasasthra.

 

[siganeswarie]

ya it exists but shastra
is a religion believe but comes for marriage or terms of partner of life we should not see the two heart of partner not age
whether they can understand each other
whether willing life together
because age good and understanding is gone
the life is gone

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Just now I saw the posting of Sangom. He has the book Vaidyanatha dikshithyam. Sri. Sangom could you please tell us when it was written and by whom? That is if such details are available.

Samshepa Dharmasasthra gives us the relevant extracts from different Dharamsasthras and quotes the name of the Dharamsasthra.

Does Vaidyanatha dikshithyam say from which Dharmasasthra is this injunction from?

Thank you.

 

[sravna]

In the name of liberation what is really happening is not liberation from any restraints but only liberstion from self control. Many of the dos amd donts in the shastras I believe are to bring the rigor of self control and other desirable results on the person. I believe that people who brand the scriptures as superficial and meanigless are themselves guilty of not having seen beyond the surface and get the real intent of such sayings.

I believe that love for anyone elder should have respect as its sole basis and this as the guiding rule should imply that marrying an older woman is not the right thing to do.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Which Scripture may I ask? Dharmasasthras are law books. They are not Scriptures. Anything which is called Sasthra is not scriptures. If we do we have to include Kokkoka Sasthra and Chowra Sasthra.

 

[sangom]

Just now I saw the posting of Sangom. He has the book Vaidyanatha dikshithyam. Sri. Sangom could you please tell us when it was written and by whom? That is if such details are available.

Samshepa Dharmasasthra gives us the relevant extracts from different Dharamsasthras and quotes the name of the Dharamsasthra.

Does Vaidyanatha dikshithyam say from which Dharmasasthra is this injunction from?

Thank you.

Dear Nn,

Vaidyanatha Deekshiteeyam is a compilation of item/topic-wise comments from all smritis/dharmasastras. It is also known by the name "smriti muktaaphalam" and if my memory serves me right, Smt. HH had stated that Kanchi PeriyavaaL refers to it. She had also given the url for downloading it but I did not keep a record of it.

In any case samkshepa dharmasastram (or, there is another by some Kadalangudi Natesa Sastrigal which some people swear by) or any others will not openly say about exceptions or inapplicabilities because that was equivalent to heresy. Since different smritis/dharmasastras spoke in different voices, there are inherent contradictions in respect of some details. But after Yama smriti, child marriage became the order of the day, though the rigvedic bride sUryA, is seen to be a full grown young girl.

And our orthodox friends will not like to take Radha & Krishna (aunt and nephew in one sense - Radha being much older to Krishna)!!

 

[sangom]

In the name of liberation what is really happening is not liberation from any restraints but only liberstion from self control. Many of the dos amd donts in the shastras I believe are to bring the rigor of self control and other desirable results on the person. I believe that people who brand the scriptures as superficial and meanigless are themselves guilty of not having seen beyond the surface and get the real intent of such sayings.

I believe that love for anyone elder should have respect as its sole basis and this as the guiding rule should imply that marrying an older woman is not the right thing to do.

Dear Shri Sravna,

I am forced to conclude as under:

1. Marrying a girl younger than a man, brings self-control, whereas marrying an elder girl automatically removes all self-control. (I feel you mean self-control in married life, that is sex-life.)

2. When you say very authoritatively that "people who brand the scriptures as superficial and meanigless are themselves guilty of not having seen beyond the surface and get the real intent of such sayings.", there is either some respected authority whose words you are citing, or, you have yourself delved deep into the very depths of all the scriptures. In the former case, kindly cite the authority, and, in the latter case, please let us know the scriptural prohibition for marrying a girl elder than oneself - citing chapter and verse - and how it will rationally and automatically ensure self-control.

3. Can there not be respect for one's wife - irrespective of whether she is younger or elder, though that need not necessarily mean that the husband will/should do namaskarams to her? [I have seen some students (back benchers) who were older than newly appointed lecturers, just after their M.Sc. Those students did have respect for those young teachers.]

 

[kunjuppu]

srvana,

what is wrong with sex? having a lot of it?

after all have we forgotten that we are from the land of khajuraho. see our temple architecture. don't all of them glorify sex.

maybe if there is more sex in the world, there will be less wars?

 

[Gans_tk]

Hi,

As per Samshebha Dharma sastram, Skandhar states Kanya dhanam should be performed by chanting Nama-Gothras by facing Eastern side. The kannigai must be younger to the Varan.

 

[ambes]

Nowadays its personal preference

 

[sangom]

Hi,

As per Samshebha Dharma sastram, Skandhar states Kanya dhanam should be performed by chanting Nama-Gothras by facing Eastern side. The kannigai must be younger to the Varan.

Shri Gans,

The point is why should the girl be younger than the boy always? After all no girl or no boy today will prefer to marry a person who is unreasonably elder, say by 10 or 15 years. But it so happens that two people prefer each other even if the girl is one or two years elder; it could even be a difference of months or days, as between classmates. What rational objection can there be for such pairs getting married - in terms of reproductive problems, sexual problems or anything else which will impinge upon the course of their lives?

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

I am forced to conclude as under:

1. Marrying a girl younger than a man, brings self-control, whereas marrying an elder girl automatically removes all self-control. (I feel you mean self-control in married life, that is sex-life.)

2. When you say very authoritatively that "people who brand the scriptures as superficial and meanigless are themselves guilty of not having seen beyond the surface and get the real intent of such sayings.", there is either some respected authority whose words you are citing, or, you have yourself delved deep into the very depths of all the scriptures. In the former case, kindly cite the authority, and, in the latter case, please let us know the scriptural prohibition for marrying a girl elder than oneself - citing chapter and verse - and how it will rationally and automatically ensure self-control.

3. Can there not be respect for one's wife - irrespective of whether she is younger or elder, though that need not necessarily mean that the husband will/should do namaskarams to her? [I have seen some students (back benchers) who were older than newly appointed lecturers, just after their M.Sc. Those students did have respect for those young teachers.]

Dear Shri Sangom,

You would agree that not all display the same level of maturity in the way they conduct their affairs. That being the case if they are allowed to have their say, there would be undesirable consequences in the society. That is the reason laws are framed to impose control upon people when they lack self control. This forced control is a way of simulating self control. The taboos serve the same purpose, that of strongly dissuading people from indulding in them. In the same way you don't question a legal injunction, you do not question a moral injunction which are more timeless and are framed for peace and harmony of the society.

There is really no need to cite the shastras to validate this rationale though I am sure that the dharmashastras would have not sanctioned such practices.

Also I did not say that respect for someone younger should not be there but if you allow sexual attraction as a basis of love towards the older women, you are unknowingly undermining your control over self. This is because nothing is going to prevent you from questioning and taking the next logical steps of an even greater taboo, say falling in love with your teacher or guru and so on. The problem is once you take the first steps towards immorality you are inextricably caught in it. I think that is the reason moral laws are and should be strongly dissuading.