Fraud conversion to Hinduism to become judge

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I was keenly following the tainted judge case. The issue widely talked about is "the judge is corrupt". But more important and pertinent question should be the conduct of the person who occupy such a high position. This judge is a born christian (for generations according to official records), lived as a christian, married to a christian, a church activists, done funding to christian churches. Joined politics, contested elections twice. As routine, did LLB also. Three vacancies crop up for District Judge posts (one for general, one for schedule caste and one for Scheduled Tribe). With his capability, general completely ruled out. He goes to a Arya Samaj set up, get a certificate to declare him as a Hindu, use his connections and get appointed under the Schedule Caste category. He deprived a genuine schedule caste to start with. Two issues : there is no prescribed or known procedure or format for conversion to hinduism, secondly, can someone convert to a "'SPECIFIC CASTE"". This fraud was raised by a Muslim gentleman before Madras High Court through a Writ Petition but the Court for some reason disposed off without a finding (in 2002). Immediately after this, again using his clout, got into High Court... The interesting part is - he continued to be a christian till his death. His burial happened in a christian cemetry with christian ceremonies (attended by all ...). I think this is one more important issue than some unknown corruption charges... A serious debate needed - how many such guys are still out there in the system. Dangerous scene...

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The social justice system is designed to discriminate against castes and communities classified as general category. That is all. Beyond that anything goes.

The law does differentiate between Hindu SC and Christian SC but the SC classification is determined by birth whether Hindu or non-hindu. And a court of law cannot disprove the "hinduness" of anybody. Therefore there is nothing really illegal in what the judge did.

 

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Sir, the law very well differentiate Schedule Caste & Scheduled Tribe. The constitutional scheme of things, it was recognised that in Hinduism, caste system is practiced and there are sections in hindu society who are deprived. As far as Tribes are concerned, the framers of constitution recognised that certain people who live in a certain place/ condition also need support so that they too can enjoy the fruits of freedom. Hence a list was prepared on scheduled castes and benefits were extended. Right in 1950 itself, there is a government notification clearly stating "'what and who is schedule caste"". As far as organised religions like Christianity and Islam, they don't practice casteism and a person belonging to these religion cannot get qualified as SC and get the benefits extended by the State. The Hindu SCs who were enjoying the state welfare benefits who convert to Christianity or Islam, lose the status and benefits instant. This is law. Only in Tamil nadu, in 2007 they brought a slight amendment wherein if a SC convert to other religion and immediately return back, such people shouldn't be deprived of the continued benefit. But here again the state stated, if such person want to return to his status, the community will have to accept his return (then only it will happen). The law is quite clear - too many SCs converted to Christianity without knowledge. Now Christianity is struggling to keep these people in their fold as the converted SCs pushing Church to compensate what is lost. Church held a massive rally in Parliament Street 3-4 months back asking the government to withdraw the 1951 notification of MHA - which will pave the way for converted SC to get continued benefit. It is a bomb ticking....

 

[ganukanchi]

hello kaalabairavan what are you trying to say. caste system exist in all religions or it was adopted by other religions (ie. other than hindu religion) or everyone born in this soil, irrespective of which religion he practices, is a hindu.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

hello kaalabairavan what are you trying to say. caste system exist in all religions or it was adopted by other religions (ie. other than hindu religion) or everyone born in this soil, irrespective of which religion he practices, is a hindu.

Dear Ganukanchi Sir,

Yes caste system is practised by a large majority of people irrespective of religion to which they belong. In India this, perhaps, has always been the case. I hold the view that caste system predates any religion including Hindu religion.

I am not going into the defintion of a Hindu. All I am saying is that a court will find it very difficult to disprove that anyone is a Hindu. The judge did have a certificate from Arya Samaj certifying that he is a Hindu. The question is whether Arya Samaj itself has the power to revoke any such certificate issued by it. I think not.

Hinduism is not a corporate religion. If not Arya Samaj, some other institution may be able to confer a Hindu certificate.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Dear Ramki Sir, That was a well written post. I only have a couple of observations.

As far as organised religions like Christianity and Islam, they don't practice casteism and a person belonging to these religion cannot get qualified as SC and get the benefits extended by the State. The Hindu SCs who were enjoying the state welfare benefits who convert to Christianity or Islam, lose the status and benefits instant.

1. People belonging to Christianity and Islam also practice casteism.

2. You are right in that a Hindu SC who converts loses the status of a Hindu SC. But he/she does not lose all the quota benefits. At least in TN, a Hindu SC converting to Christianity still derives quota benefits under BC or MBC category. Therefore only the category changes. The converts still have a priveleged status and benefits and they will eat away from the pool allocated to BC/MBC communities which in TN includes almost all Christians and Muslims anyways. So that is the equation here.

 

[sarang]

Conversion to a hindu is ready. But getting a caste certificate is not easy. His parents and ancestors must belong to that caste, or the officials must visit his village, talk to the locals and panchayat leaders to establish one's caste.
Like police verification for passport. Can get desired caste certificate if the machinery is well oiled.

 

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Sir, casteism is more practiced in christianity or islam in Indian than the sect call themselves HINDUS but by constitution the organised religion's preamble itself is "'whoever submits themselves for leading their personal lives dictated by a code will be equal. But this is only in paper. In southern part of India, a large number of dalits were lured to convert but these converts were kept as a distinct entity (these converts will restrict themselves to a separate church - not allowed to mingle with so called ""originals"") - check dalit christian website where they are crying for equal treatment for a long time - including writing representations to Pope.. Same with Muslims - same with muslim sect. But ""per law"", these two religions don't have caste system hence reservations are not extended to other religions except hindu SCs in India. The statement ""irrespective of which religion he practices, is a hindu"" is too loaded. The caste system exists in all religions (in different forms) but other religions in paper can never adopt this.. This is evident in many court cases, spefically one case before Kerala High Court, when the judge asked whether the christian groups can file an affidavit stating in their religion too, caste system exists hence the reservations should continue despite their conversion. The groups ran away... In a nutshell, a christian or muslim cannot enjoy SC reservation (that's the constitutional provisions - which is stated and re-stated even by the Minorities Commission). Unfortunate part is the intent of welfare legislations are restricted to a specific period and to a specific identified group. Once the objective is achieved, the welfare legislation has to stop. Giving compensation to a factory accident victim too is welfare legislation which shall have a perpectual nature but not food security or employment guarantee or for that matter RESERVATIONS....

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I have a simple query.

There are people other than SC who derive quota benefits. Different categories such as BC, MBC, EBC exist.

When people classified into any of these categories convert, they continue to enjoy reservations. You can refer to the Tamil nadu BC/MBC caste list. There are separate entries for converted Christians. There is a separate category called BC Muslims that even lists all the Muslim castes.

No one raises the question I.e. whether Christianity or Islam has casteism "per law" then.

So why is this a problem only when SCs convert and enjoy reservations?

 

[vgane]

I have a simple query.

There are people other than SC who derive quota benefits. Different categories such as BC, MBC, EBC exist.

When people classified into any of these categories convert, they continue to enjoy reservations. You can refer to the Tamil nadu BC/MBC caste list. There are separate entries for converted Christians. There is a separate category called BC Muslims that even lists all the Muslim castes.

No one raises the question I.e. whether Christianity or Islam has casteism "per law" then.

So why is this a problem only when SCs convert and enjoy reservations?

Just to protect the flock and ensure that the most vulnerable section among the Hindus do not go away..The problem of conversion is also minimum among the BC/MBC's (This is my understanding) as they are the dominating castes in villages, town & cities and enjoy all the privileges in terms of political and social power!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Just to protect the flock and ensure that the most vulnerable section among the Hindus do not go away..The problem of conversion is also minimum among the BC/MBC's (This is my understanding) as they are the dominating castes in villages, town & cities and enjoy all the privileges in terms of political and social power!

I am sorry. You are protecting the flock from what? If you have a problem with conversions, you have to do something about it. You cannot ask for unequal application of law.