Hindu, Christian tug-of-war over Nepal’s.........?

[ShivKC]

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Hindu, Christian tug-of-war over Nepal?s Pashupatinath temple intensifies - The Times of India

Nepal's oldest temple, the 5th century Pashupatinath shrine revered by Hindus worldwide, is in the eye of a new storm as Christians and Hindus fight it out in court over an ancient forest that belongs to the hallowed shrine.

The Supreme Court said on Wednesday it would give its verdict on two separate writ petitions filed separately by a Hindu activist and Christians on April 12. Judges Balaram KC and Bharat Bahadur Karki made the announcement after Nepal's Christians, who are on a relay hunger strike for the 15th day demanding the government give them land to build an official cemetery for the community, finally went to court, triggering a retaliation by a Hindu activist.

On March 13, Chari Bahadur Gahatraj, a Protestant pastor and an influential member of the community, filed a writ with fellow Christian Man Bahadur Khatri, asking the apex court to halt the Pashupatinath Area Development Trust that runs the temple, from demolishing the hundreds of Christian graves scattered in the Shleshmantak forest adjoining the temple complex.

The two petitioners said Christians were allowed in the past to bury their dead in the forest and should be allowed to continue the practice till they were given a separate plot of land by the government. When Judge Awadhesh Kumar Yadav ordered the government not to create any obstruction to Christian burials in the forest till the row was resolved, Hindu activist Bharat Jangam filed a counter petition, saying non-Hindus should not be allowed to encroach on Hindu land.

"The forest is considered sacred by Hindus and is used by them to make offerings to their ancestors," Jangam told TNN. "Hundreds of ancient Hindu sages are buried there. If the Christians want a burial land, they should go to the government, not encroach on the land of a Hindu shrine that is also a Unesco-declared World Heritage site."

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Where ever there is a Hindu Temple, a Cross has to be spiked around there or a Mazaar laid there to proclaim there's is also a religion visible. If you travel widely in interior by train these marks of persistency will strike you. Hindutva people are busy to capture Delhi and they do not know India has villages. If they do not do they will not be accepted at the gates of heaven. If they do not make a fight of it they might be forgotten. It is their menial job while their highest priest will sermon on universal peace and brotherhood. Looks like all is his Thiruvilayaadal. Courts are also idling their time and lawyers are begging for a cup of tea.

 

[kunjuppu]

shiv,

i think to be fair you should have also printed the last two paragraphs, which balances somewhat the article.

especially the statement from the catholic bishop anthony sharma, that cremations is ok for christians. also the cemetry is a pretty old cemetry.

let us not blow this out of proportion. i too was concerned when i read it first, but it is not all black and white. OK?

When the Christian protests demanding a cemetery started in January, they had not been tinged with communal hues. However, the court's decision to resolve the two petitions together could change all that. Even the Christian community has become divided over the graveyard demand.

The minuscule Catholic community has distanced itself from the protests, saying they had no objection to cremation, which was being followed even in the west. Nepal's first Catholic bishop Anthony Sharma said Nepal being a tiny country, land was at a premium. When the living themselves did not have adequate land, there could be no objection to cremating the dead.



Hindu, Christian tug-of-war over Nepal?s Pashupatinath temple intensifies - The Times of India

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Saints and Monks(Sanyasins) in Hinduism are only buried when their soul leaves their physical body.So why not accord that status to all whose custom demand burials only and not cremation.I do not understand why there should be controversy.
WHEN land for burial becomes unavailable,the custom being followed will be reviewed.I understand for paucity of land that christians in CHENNAI
are resorting to cremation and preserve the ashes in an urn and preserve them in their burial places.
I have seen a special place inside BELUR MUTT,HOWRAH for the cremation of their sanyasis as when they leave this world.

 

[Nara]

... Judges Balaram KC and Bharat Bahadur Karki made the announcement after Nepal's Christians, who are on a relay hunger strike for the 15th day demanding the government give them land to build an official cemetery for the community, finally went to court, triggering a retaliation by a Hindu activist.

Hello ShivKC, I am curious, what is your personal position on this matter?

Cheers!

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Saints and Monks(Sanyasins) in Hinduism are only buried when their soul leaves their physical body.So why not accord that status to all whose custom demand burials only and not cremation.I do not understand why there should be controversy.
WHEN land for burial becomes unavailable,the custom being followed will be reviewed.I understand for paucity of land that christians in CHENNAI
are resorting to cremation and preserve the ashes in an urn and preserve them in their burial places.
I have seen a special place inside BELUR MUTT,HOWRAH for the cremation of their sanyasis as when they leave this world.

I am afraid the idea is to acquire property through burial ground. They just start a nursery, then an English medium school and then a burial ground. By cremation you cannot add property. Every religion has a strict dogma to infringe upon others, but the socalled Hinduism has no such superstition.

 

[Nara]

Hello ShivKC, I am curious, what is your personal position on this matter?

Cheers!

ShivKC, I see that you have posted a response elsewhere, may I request your attention to this query from me?

Thanks ....

 

[ShivKC]

sir, i intentionally didnt repond, since you owe a response, which is long pending after when i have cleared it with KRS.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-scriptures/5885-after-death-what-9.html

pls ref. post 83 onwards. I'm extra curious there

 

[Nara]

sir, i intentionally didnt repond, since you owe a response, which is long pending after when i have cleared it with KRS.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-scriptures/5885-after-death-what-9.html

pls ref. post 83 onwards. I'm extra curious there

ShivKC,

These two are completely unrelated. Further, the other issue is between me and Shri KRS, why should it matter to you. Anyway, I am willing to give a response to what you think I owe a response to, if that will elicit a response from you on this current matter.

My POV on god and religion is well known, I think organized religion and faith in god may have provided some comfort to many people, but on balance, it has been a bane of humanity. Shri KRS disagrees with me, but what can I do, I lack the persuasive skills to make him change his opinion, all I can do is state my position, which I have done.

In that particular post Shri KRS has cited some references showing many scientists are not atheists. Perhaps, but I disagree. There are studies that show an overwhelming majority of scientists reject theism of the personal god sort. But, I am unable to convince Shri KRS, so I am willing to just state my stand and let go of the issue.

Now I ask you to do the same on this issue, please state where do you stand. Hope you will give a straight and honest answer.

Cheers!

 

[ShivKC]

ShivKC,

These two are completely unrelated. Further, the other issue is between me and Shri KRS, why should it matter to you.
Cheers!

sh,nara, in that thread you said below.. so it does matter to me. however, i have replied to you there, awaiting to close that point, upon which i will repond here

For this reason I wish to be excused from giving an answer to your valid question. I will gladly answer your question and even discuss further after you have addressed these issues in a forthright manner with Happy and Shri KRS

 

[Nara]

sh,nara, in that thread you said below.. so it does matter to me. however, i have replied to you there, awaiting to close that point, upon which i will repond here

ShivKC, on the other thread there is a pending issue with SM that you have not resolved to. Even so, where I stand on that matter is very clear, only that I have not answered your polemical questions -- I will answer them after you have resolved the issues with SM.

Here, all I am asking you to do is state whether you side with the Christians or the Hindus in this matter that you brought to this web site. I am not asking you to justify your answer, only state your stand.

To answer or not is your prerogative, I know I can't force it out of you. But your refusal to answer speaks louder than any answer you can give, it makes my suspicion that you are a Christian proselytizing troublemaker intent on sowing discord among members here.

If you state unequivocally that (i) you are NOT a Christian and (ii) Jesus is NOT your savior, then I will offer an unconditional apology to you.

Cheers!

 

[ShivKC]

ShivKC, on the other thread there is a pending issue with SM that you have not resolved to. Even so, where I stand on that matter is very clear, only that I have not answered your polemical questions -- I will answer them after you have resolved the issues with SM.

Here, all I am asking you to do is state whether you side with the Christians or the Hindus in this matter that you brought to this web site. I am not asking you to justify your answer, only state your stand.

To answer or not is your prerogative, I know I can't force it out of you. But your refusal to answer speaks louder than any answer you can give, it makes my suspicion that you are a Christian proselytizing troublemaker intent on sowing discord among members here.

If you state unequivocally that (i) you are NOT a Christian and (ii) Jesus is NOT your savior, then I will offer an unconditional apology to you.

Cheers!

sh.nara, i have answered SM on the second day, and the issue was resolved.

its funny to call me a christian. i thik some months back, when i joined, even i felt t he same about you. and few members also called you as christian. im having good laugh now.

incase u need any verification, i will do so to the SM or admin or even to you.

definitely, i need that unconditional apology here.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I am shocked at the reactions. We are all Human beings. When someone dies everyone would like to give the dead person a decent burial/cremation. This is a common sentiment and not restricted by religions.

The problem has come about because the Christians do not have a burial ground. The Government should allot a piece of land for that. There is an acute shortage of land in Nepal. So the Government may have a allot a piece of forest which the Hindus claim is holy.

Why can not Hindus be magnanimous and gift a parcel of land?

That would be more in the tradition and culture of Hindus.

One of the boys in our village was working in one of those British protectorate islands. His grand mother who went to visit him died there. Their rules do not permit cremation. They buried her in a Christian burial ground and put a head stone.

Are we with out compassion?

 

[Nara]

.....its funny to call me a christian. i thik some months back, when i joined, even i felt t he same about you. and few members also called you as christian. im having good laugh now.

ShivKC, I don't care for any religion, I think religion, on balance, has been a bane of humanity than a boon. Even though I think it would be great if people abandon their religious affiliations, I know the proverbial hell may freeze over before that happens. Given this reality, I respect the choices people make, I respect people's right to espouse any religion they are attracted to, I respect the right of people to change their religion.

What I don't appreciate is deception, dishonesty and sowing discord.

incase u need any verification, i will do so to the SM or admin or even to you.

definitely, i need that unconditional apology here.

My offer to extend an unconditional and public apology still stands, but first show that you deserve one, I need a non-evasive, unequivocal statement from you that covers two points, (i) you are NOT a Christian and (ii) Jesus is NOT your savior. Say it and you shall have your apology.

Cheers!

 

[ShivKC]

My offer to extend an unconditional and public apology still stands, but first show that you deserve one, I need a non-evasive, unequivocal statement from you that covers two points, (i) you are NOT a Christian and (ii) Jesus is NOT your savior. Say it and you shall have your apology.

Cheers!

point 1 $ 2, christian, follower and salvation of christ, i dont care .. I am not.; thats why i said, and offered to the SM/admit to have a verification on me, even on phone. but to add, as a true TB ideologist, i do have the photo of christ,buddha,mecca on my puja room. i love their gods, but not their religion..

but the sad part is your changing stands. Out here you wanted me to prove my identity and was behind me. But 2 month ago, when the issue of 'THREE SOME' (self, tambra,pannvalan) came up, when i they were painted as someone running behind 'HAPPYHINDU' asking her to come open on her NB identity, you are the first one to come and blow your Nadaswaram out in high pitch, to claim high "Oh no, please look in to post, not the posters(HH)''' and advised forum not to seek personal identity, et all. so sad, you are now compelled to seek my identity, when encountered.. isnt that bad, sir?

prof, out here, now , you portrayed me as christian, no issues, just a fun, but you took a toppling view on your own, for seeking my identity Chr. Why double standards sir.

dont worry, you are free to call me as a christian, Muslim or EVRs buddist, but why said so in your earlier post, that I am an outsider (christian) who wants to divide the our tamizhbrahmin members, or in way Agraharam divider ..

Arent you going out of what you claimed here, so ofter, ' look in to posters views, but not their personal identity. please, practise what you preach, sir...

just a recollect..., how much ardently you were protecting happyhindu, when she was asked by someone to prove her NB identity ( i was wrongly included in that club), but now you are behind me asking me to prove my hindu identity, lets keep aside my godhram...

Why this double standards from the learned prof.???? please dont go personal, . this what you advocated here so long, please dont change your track

Extra double cheers, prof!!

 

[kunjuppu]

shiv,

happy has never hidden her antecdents. she has posted here, in this forum, right from the start, about her NB origins, and she is appreciated for her erudition and not because or inspite of her origins.

i would now like to second prof nara: we have had obfuscationist forked tonguers here in the past. considering the nature of the way this thread is progressing, the learned professor is certainly within his rights to request a disclaimer

'i am not a christian. i do not consider jesus christ my saviour'.

i was very impressed with the way another member, who went under the moniker sapr333 used to play with words, and circle around and dodge a direct simple answer.

either one is or one isn't. either way an honest straightforward reply is only befitting the norms of the forum, and the regards that we have for each other.

hope this will atleast nudge, if not incite you, to provide an answer to prof nara, in the manner he requested.

and you can have the last laugh, and savour his apology

 

[Nara]

so sad, you are now compelled to seek my identity, when encountered.. isnt that bad, sir?

[...]

Why this double standards from the learned prof.???? please dont go personal, . this what you advocated here so long, please dont change your track

No double standards at all ShivKC, I don't care about your identity in at all. I am only interested in your views, opinion, etc. What you are is of no interest to me, only your opinion and your stand on issues you have raised yourself.

Initially, all I wanted was to know your position on this dispute in Nepal that you felt dearly enough to make a post about here. But you are refusing to give a straight forward answer. This obfuscation is what made me dubious of the image you are trying to project here. More you hedge and fudge, I am becoming more and more skeptical of your honesty. It is your honesty I want to verify, not your identity.

I fully appreciate that I may be completely wrong. This is why I am offering to apologize, all you have to do to claim the apology, it is very simple indeed, just repudiate the Christian dogma that Jesus is the Christ. Your equivocation only makes me more and more suspicious.

Cheers!

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

TO ALL,
My friend Mr.T.V.T.CHARI a CHRISTIAN is a member of this forum from 06th February,2011(No.1980).My friend has declared himself as
BRAHMIN CHRISTIAN at the time of registration.(He hails from an orthodox SV family before changing his faith.)There could be other members too who would not have declared openly.
While discussing and making our posts,let us take this fact into consideration.

 

[Nara]

TO ALL,
My friend Mr.T.V.T.CHARI a CHRISTIAN is a member of this forum from 06th February,2011(No.1980).My friend has declared himself as
BRAHMIN CHRISTIAN at the time of registration.(He hails from an orthodox SV family before changing his faith.)There could be other members too who would not have declared openly.
While discussing and making our posts,let us take this fact into consideration.

Dear BK sir, the issue I am raising is not about Christianity at all, it is about honesty. I have nothing against Christians or Christianity that I do not have for Hindus or Hinduism, Buddists or Buddism, Muslims or Islam, et al.

I personally would welcome and love an opportunity to dialog with anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jain, whatever. My concern with ShivKC is strictly limited to what I see as a lack of openness, a lack of straightforward discourse and persisting personal vendetta -- I feel we the members of this forum must guard against such elements.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

....I fully appreciate that I may be completely wrong. This is why I am offering to apologize, all you have to do to claim the apology, it is very simple indeed, just repudiate the Christian dogma that Jesus is the Christ. Your equivocation only makes me more and more suspicious.

Dear Members,

Three days have gone by and ShivKC has not bothered to collect the apology I was ready to tender if only he will show some honesty. This adds credibility to my suspicion that he is not what he is trying to pass himself as. Hiding behind the anonymity internet offers, he is posting on topics relating to Christianity with the intent of riling up members and attacking a few upon whom he has been nursing enmity from the days of his previous incarnation as sapr333, or singleliner, or some such moniker.

I have nothing against Christianity that I don't have against other religions. In fact I happen to think a fully believing Christian, fully deluded, has to try to convert as many people as possible using any legal tactic available, otherwise he/she will be a heartless person -- in their belief system anyone who does not take Jesus as savior is condemned to eternal damnation. If I happen to believe in this, and if I don't try my best to convert as many people as possible, wouldn't I be complicit through inaction in damning them?

So, I have no problem with any Christian practicing his/her religion, I look at them as no more or no less deluded than the practitioners of other religions. What I am objecting to in the case of ShivKC is not that he may be a Christian, but he may be dishonest. What is the reason to hedge, why can't he make a clear statement? Why does he want to hide his beliefs? Why does he nurse enmity against a particular member and abuse that member repeatedly?

I request members to keep all this in mind the next time ShivKC makes a post. Please remember, there is a very good chance he is a dishonest person.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

even "if" shiv kc is a christian,he is welcome to interact with us.sanathana dharma encompasses everything under the sun.as hindus,i am somewhat astounded by many posters here.

 

[ShivKC]

I request members to keep all this in mind the next time ShivKC makes a post. Please remember, there is a very good chance he is a dishonest person.

Cheers!

NARA sir, in spite of me volunteering out to prove my credentials and identity to SM, you have intentionally projected me as a christian and repeatedly, just to gather support from crowd. infact, i was waiting for a PM from SM asking my identity/tel no.

my question to you on the other thread was to prove 'the damages done by religion' compared to atheists. and you didnt respond,and evaded stating that i hv an answer due to SM . sh.KRS,,,, which was responded my me much before itself. thats the only way i thought to counter you from the root level, than countering your continued spitting of venoms of Brahmins.

sir, when i joined this forum, my earlier posts were supportive of yours, but when off late i found that you are too much pricking on brahmins, i took against you and happy hindu. after all, this forum is tamilbrahmin.com, and my expectations were like many of those, who had quit this place because of you and happyhindu. will share those list and PM's to krs regarding this. hope you are aware, those who were against happyhindu and you, have already joined and started a new forum.

sir, your posts were perfect and you are absolutely right in your point, but i think, this forum's objective and target audience are different, and you are in a wrong place. but since you and happy are promoted too much here, and since you could declare me as a christian inspite of me offering to moderator to prove my identity, you still kept on banging on me.

Sir, i may not be the right person here, but dont please call me as christian. if you have any doubts, please go through the posts and threads of mine. I am not going to write here any more, not even read the posts without signing it.. Had enough, and thats what we are, always fight and pull others down!

 

[ShivKC]

sh.KRS SM or Praveen,

since I am open to give access to my credentials, be it a phone call, webcam,or scan copy of GOI ID, or JatHaham, so that I can get rid of all the allegations raised by sh.nara.

Thanks to praveen, for responding to my call on this.