hindu religious practices for brahmins and nonbrahmins..

[gsarathy]

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Hindu Religious practices like samskaras ,poojas and other rituals are being learnt and assisted by Brahmins to both B and NBs.
For BRAHMINS there is a Patasala system thro Vedas.For practical training vidyarthis get trained thro local vadyars
for a living.
For Nonbrahmins is there any prescribed syllabus?[ like Vaidyanatha dheekshitheeyam both for prayogam and dharma sastra]
Nonbramins demand Bramin vadyars but Bramin vadyars are reluctant!
Many Bramin vadyars in the name of Panchangam iyers,gurukkal,sivacharyars,poojars and iyers go to nonbramins houses and do the rituals....but they do not follow any text/script
It is the duty of Brahmins to guide nonbramins in all religious activities since they heavily depend upon Bramins for guidance.
There is no approved school to train / teach / guide the nonbramin ritual.
Now there is an awakening among nonbramins on hindu religious cults!
They need Tamil way and attempts are made to train people to train both for Temple poojaris and household rituals!
what is the role of Bramins in this context?
I asked many nonbramin priests about the TEXT but they say they do by tradition thro parents!
A learned Bramin who can guide nonbraminsin religious activities is preferred every where and
its time that
Brahmins extend their services to nonbrahmins also by teaching appropriate lessons to cater tyhe needs of all.
There is Varna sangraham...Mix up of communities and castes among all and its very difficult nowadays to find a pure uncontaminated Bramin family even in conduct of Srardam!
Pl give an open thinking .
G..PARTHASARATHY

 

[kunjuppu]

sarathy,

when we still think in terms of 'pure uncontaminated brahmin families', i think, we are still 1000 years behind in our thinking that all humans before God are equal and it is plain ignorance or arrogance to imagine that by birth, we are any better than any of the other hindu caste.

i for one, am certainly glad, that your observation, re uncontaminated brahmin famiilies, do not exist. if that be so, our community has gone far beyond, than some of the left overs, who i think, have problems adjusting, not only to today's realities, but also from an absolute moral viewpoint.

it is high time, we as hindus, think in terms of hinduism, and not as brahmins, and also understand, that everyone else of other castes, not only need to be included but inculcated into priesthood, based on interest, and not on inheritance. that alone, would ensure a vibrant and healthy future for our way of life.

thank you.

 

[gsarathy]

Kunjuppu has an open mind!
Thanks.
What I want is Religious guidance to Mixed Brahmins and all Nonbramins on Samskaras,Poojas and Dharma sastras
Bramins need no guidance since they have well established Patasalas and guidance thro vadyars and Ganpadigals and srowthigals!
G.Parthasarathy

 

[kunjuppu]

thank you sarathy.

personally, i think, we need to come up with a reformed practice in tune with modern realities and absolute terms of equality before God for all castes, creeds.

castes are groupings and just that, without any values of superiority or entitlement. this should be the basis of our reformation. i think vivekananda espoused this about 150 years ago, and appears to have been forgotten.

next comes priesthood. again, it should be open to all, who are interested. it gives the profession a respect, for no one can be considered a priest, fit enough to serve in a temple, unless he or she has gone through certification re the fundas of our scriptures, and practices.

considering the present day condition of so many tambram bachelors without spouses, it may be proper for us to follow the lead of kerala namboothri bachelors, and seek spouses from orphanages. the advantage is that these girls have no other relative, and hence no one to influence their behaviour. this gives the husband, if the spouse is willing, to familarize her to the customs and needs that befits a priest's wife.

which again comes to another aspect of marriages. maybe we should lighten up our attitude towards ic marriages. our numbers are declining, and soon we may fall below a critical mass needed to be recognized as a community, and a capacity to replace ourselves. such has happened to the parsis, and maybe namboothris. instead of shunning those of our youth who marry outside our caste or religion, let us welcome them into our fold. that way, we are also providing a path, for growth and spouses for the next generation.

i do not consider any of the above, as anti hindu or anti brahmin. just a set of solutions, into the current day dilemma, of inconsistency of values inculcated at home, mostly out of ignorance and prejudice, and what we find in the real world. i am also happy to say, by and large, the community has cast aside its nasty racist values of old, but there are die hards, who in their anger, have resorted to calling names, to folks like me, who are more concerned about the growth of the community than these neanderthals.

sarathy, i hope, i did not hijack your thread. i hope, i have provided some alternate thinking out of thebox, for the sake of our children.

thank you sir.

 

[gsarathy]

Religious Practices as a profession

Some time back I posted this matter but there was lot of resistance !
now I dont see any response at all!.
May be kunjapo has come out with certain deleberations!
In christians and moslems there are well accepted priests and
people dont come down heavily upon there priests!
In hindu fold there is stiff resistance and down grading of priests
pundits,poojaris,archakars and sastrigals....
and there is also clamour on training all people for such priesthood
and translation to tamil and poojas!
where are we going ?
are we to protect hindus or bramins only?
GPS

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Most of the Vadhyars and temple priests have got that post by heredity and not by training. Most of the Vadhyars have no Veda patashala training. A good sasthirigal with Veda patashala training is becoming rare. There is a good demand for them especially outside India.

Most of temple priests have become one because it is the family profession. They have inherited the post. Talking about training in Agamas is only in theory.

We wanted a priest for our family temple. Long back we had a qualified priest who was very good. But when he died we could not get another one. So we offered the post to his son who had no qualification. Then he became a drunkard. We had to replace him. We gave it a Brahmin who in fact knows nothing about Pujas. One of the family members trained him.

Last time when we wanted to do an elaborate Puja we had to get priests from nearby towns. But even they were not good. my wife never tires of telling me that their pronunciation and delivery of Rudram and Vedic hymns was horrible. She keeps on saying only one man was good (out of five).

In theory our sasthirigals are supposed to have studied in the Veda patashala. But it is not happening. The same case with temple priests.

I find that Non_Brahmins get good priests at least in bigger cities. Because they offer more money. Money that no Tamil Brahmin would even think of giving.

Most of them are what we call kuva kuva priests who do not know Sanskrit and who pronounce the words terribly.

The blame for this state of affairs lies squarely with us as I have been repeatedly saying. We do not honour our Sasthirigals and Priests. We do not value their profession.

A number of people will retort by saying they have mobile phones and scooters. Even the flower vendors in Mylapore have mobiles.

 

[kunjuppu]

Some time back I posted this matter but there was lot of resistance !
now I dont see any response at all!.
May be kunjapo has come out with certain deleberations!
In christians and moslems there are well accepted priests and
people dont come down heavily upon there priests!
In hindu fold there is stiff resistance and down grading of priests
pundits,poojaris,archakars and sastrigals....
and there is also clamour on training all people for such priesthood
and translation to tamil and poojas!
where are we going ?
are we to protect hindus or bramins only?
GPS

in addition to my post #4, i have only this to say:

when we have this albatross called 'caste' hanging around our necks, and priesthood is closely tied to one particular caste, how can the concept of professionally trained priests gain ground?

like our own lifestyle practices, priesthood too, has been allowed to wither in its regimentation. my own family vathiar, not the main one, but one who came in for amaavaasai, ie the sub, was an ex railway clerk in dehra dun, who was caught for stealing railway goods and selling them in the outside market. he got caught, and thanks to being a brahmin, which to my surprise carried clout in u.p. of the sixties, got away with a warning, and soon beseeched his uncle in mylapore for a vaidheeham alternative. not that this man knew anything much,but enough to satsify the rqmts of amavaasya.

my dad had no respect for him, and would insist the 'big' vathyar come for any half decent function. if by chance we were forced to do with the 'veral-muranja' vaathiar, dad used to scream at him not to short cut any of the prayers - though i think neither knew anything better, and neither would have been aware of any 'shortcuts' practised

mrs k has issued a warning...gottogo..now

 

[sangom]

Some time back I posted this matter but there was lot of resistance !
now I dont see any response at all!.
May be kunjapo has come out with certain deleberations!
In christians and moslems there are well accepted priests and
people dont come down heavily upon there priests!
In hindu fold there is stiff resistance and down grading of priests
pundits,poojaris,archakars and sastrigals....
and there is also clamour on training all people for such priesthood
and translation to tamil and poojas!
where are we going ?
are we to protect hindus or bramins only?
GPS

Shri GPS,

I don't recall this topic - brahmins with adequate knowledge and training acting as purohitas to NBs who may require such service or guidance, as you may like to call - having come up earlier. If so I am sorry I have missed it.

Originally, the duty of yajanam and yaajanam, i.e., performing vedic yaaga for oneself and for others, was given to the braahmana. But, in course of time many groups of people who were in the category of Vaisya were demoted to Sudra and thus they lost the eligibility for getting yaagas done. The brahmin outlook also possibly became rigid and they became weary of acting as purohitas of NBs. In the south especially the B-NB divide was so deep that anyone other than B was considered equal to a Sudra and so called in ordinary parlance. (The tabras of Kerala also faithfully carried this to this part; all people other than tabras were "Sudrappayal" for us in our childhood.) All this has probably resulted in B purohitas avoiding NBs completely. But we should also keep in mind the fact that B purohitas are ready to officiate in the marriage rituals of rich people whatever caste they may belong to.

The problem then is of the not-so-rich NBs I think. If they are particular about B purohitas, they may have to pay something more than what the Bs pay for in identical circumstances.

An alternative is to train selected and willing volunteers from NBs as purohitas. Our patashalas may not be willing to admit the NB candidates. But we have our member Shri Saidevo's words (assurance) that if any NB or even Sudra or Dalit starts a school for their own people for studying vedas, etc., no brahmin would have objected even in the historical past. I therefore suggest that you first find out some NB (like Nattukottai Chettiars) or rich Dalit and then make use of Shri Saidevo's good office to get the school going and producing NB and Dalit vaadhyaars.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The Veda Patashalas are not meant as training ground for Purohitas. The Veda Patashala students are expected to continue to recite the Vedas daily and also teach Vedas. Shringeri Math has a scheme for paying stipend to Veda Patashala graduates who do not take up Purohitam. This has been a subject point of discussions in Veda Sabhas. We are a community of Brahmins. Not a community of Purohitas.

Years of study in the Veda patashala is not necessary for becoming a purohita or for that matter a temple priest. I have always felt that it is an overkill and wastage of valuable resources.

A short term course can easily be devised for training Purohitas and Temple Priests. It could be run by any of the existing Veda Patashalas. Any Brahmin organization could do that. May be even part time. Only evening classes.

The Durga Puja in West Bengal requires thousands of priests. This is a Pouranic Puja. It was seen that the priests were not doing a good job. A voluntary organization took up the training of these priests with the help of the local Brahmin community. It is a huge success with even non-Brahmins taking the training.

I remember that such a training course in Tantras only for temple priests was started in Kerala also.

 

[nachi naga]

brahmins are just a part of sanathana dharma,which makes them stick to a routine according to geographical culture.each dharma has been explained and each is expected to stick to them.by birth helps one to follow the dharma as explained in shastras but the real test is ,how one actually leads their life.,imho.

 

[prasad1]

in addition to my post #4, i have only this to say:

when we have this albatross called 'caste' hanging around our necks, and priesthood is closely tied to one particular caste, how can the concept of professionally trained priests gain ground?

I know that Skankaracharya Madams would accept poor Brahmin boys to train them in Vadic ways. They also used to donate for girls marriage. I know I know you all will jump and say that caste based, but it was charity by a private organization.

like our own lifestyle practices, priesthood too, has been allowed to wither in its regimentation. my own family vathiar, not the main one, but one who came in for amaavaasai, ie the sub, was an ex railway clerk in dehra dun, who was caught for stealing railway goods and selling them in the outside market. he got caught, and thanks to being a brahmin, which to my surprise carried clout in u.p. of the sixties, got away with a warning, and soon beseeched his uncle in mylapore for a vaidheeham alternative. not that this man knew anything much,but enough to satsify the rqmts of amavaasya.

my dad had no respect for him, and would insist the 'big' vathyar come for any half decent function. if by chance we were forced to do with the 'veral-muranja' vaathiar, dad used to scream at him not to short cut any of the prayers - though i think neither knew anything better, and neither would have been aware of any 'shortcuts' practised

mrs k has issued a warning...gottogo..now

I like all your post in this thread.

I agree, but on the other end of the scale in the North India, Pandas rule. Try getting anything done Kashi, Gaya, or Prayag, you lucky to come out alive (my version).