Horoscope matching

[H.Krishnamurthy]

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Recently I had a peculiar experience while searching for a suitable alliance for my Son.
I collected 10 horoscopes from different matrimonials ys with my son's jadagam and approched josiyar, who made the matching of my jadagam and my wife's jadagam about 32 years back.( to be precise end of 1978 ).
Out of 10 , he refused 8 jadagams and selected only 2 jadagams which he claimed and ranked as no 1 and no 2.
Immediatly contacted no 1 and got a message that with God's grace the marriage of that girl was settled.
The 2 nd rank girl's father approched some other josiyar at Bangalore and he has rejected my son's jadagam and informed him that there is no match.
Now the question is A pair of matching jadagams matched by a josiyar at a remote village in tamil nadu is rejected at Bangalore as not matching.
Is there any different scales for matching of horoscopes at different places.
2 nd question as per the Book published by LIFCO publishers , written by Mr. Ramaiyengar in page no 149 , it says that Chevvai in 4 th place from lagnam will be treated as Chevvai dosha jadagam or to be treated as no dosha jadagam if the 4 th house is MEENAM.
Some body clarify me for a Dhanur lagnam jadagam if the guja in Meenam is dosha jadagam or sudhdha jadagam or is it to be treated as dosha jadagam with pariharam.
Is anybody ready to clarify me sir.

 

[sangom]

Recently I had a peculiar experience while searching for a suitable alliance for my Son.
I collected 10 horoscopes from different matrimonials ys with my son's jadagam and approched josiyar, who made the matching of my jadagam and my wife's jadagam about 32 years back.( to be precise end of 1978 ).
Out of 10 , he refused 8 jadagams and selected only 2 jadagams which he claimed and ranked as no 1 and no 2.
Immediatly contacted no 1 and got a message that with God's grace the marriage of that girl was settled.
The 2 nd rank girl's father approched some other josiyar at Bangalore and he has rejected my son's jadagam and informed him that there is no match.
Now the question is A pair of matching jadagams matched by a josiyar at a remote village in tamil nadu is rejected at Bangalore as not matching.
Is there any different scales for matching of horoscopes at different places.
2 nd question as per the Book published by LIFCO publishers , written by Mr. Ramaiyengar in page no 149 , it says that Chevvai in 4 th place from lagnam will be treated as Chevvai dosha jadagam or to be treated as no dosha jadagam if the 4 th house is MEENAM.
Some body clarify me for a Dhanur lagnam jadagam if the guja in Meenam is dosha jadagam or sudhdha jadagam or is it to be treated as dosha jadagam with pariharam.
Is anybody ready to clarify me sir.

Shri Krishnamurthy,

I am once again trying to answer your doubt with all sincerity. Please excuse me if some of what I write does not appeal to you.

There is a saying, "a hundred gurus, hundred and one religions", or something to that effect. In the same way, if there are hundred astrologers, there will be hundred and one ways of matching two horoscopes!

If Meen rasi is the fourth, chevvai will be owner of the 5th. and 12th. houses. According to whatever I have learnt, this will not absolve chevvai of his dosha. But if Jupiter, lord of Lagna and fourth houses aspects chevvai especially from Katakam (his house of exaltation) we may treat Chevvai as having very little dosha.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Before the matching you could have ascertained the strength of the marriage yoga of native. Mars in 4th house will give disturbed happiness. If aspected by Jupiter or associated with him, it is a good yoga. Basic rule is Mars in 2,4,7,8.. is Dosha. If any of these houses happen to be his own or his house of his exaltation, the dosha is nullified. Generally, after 10-poruththams, h'copes matching should be verified and if the doshas do not match, it is better to give up that. Like Sangomji said, the more you go into it more confused one would become. Yet the subject is science and interpretations vary.

 

[Raghy]

The astrologers can be very interesting. My son's horoscope, meena lagnam; kataka raasi; mars in Makaram. I liked one girl's qualifications, after consulting my son, rang her father in Srirangam. Their astrologer rejected my son's horscope as 'chevvai dosha jatakam'! I just laughed when I heard that. (by the way, if it is indeed 'Chevvai dosha jatakam, kindly let me know, please. Thanks).

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

The astrologers can be very interesting. My son's horoscope, meena lagnam; kataka raasi; mars in Makaram. I liked one girl's qualifications, after consulting my son, rang her father in Srirangam. Their astrologer rejected my son's horscope as 'chevvai dosha jatakam'! I just laughed when I heard that. (by the way, if it is indeed 'Chevvai dosha jatakam, kindly let me know, please. Thanks).

Cheers!

Dear Shri Raghy,

For meena lagnam, kataka rasi, mars in makaram (exalted) is apparently without dosha. But more than evaluating the dosha in one horoscope, the better way is to look at both the horoscopes and see whether there is "matching" dosha, if any. There are many ways in which different astrologers go about matching horoscopes. But one venerable old school master (now no more) used to tell me not to go about giving "full, half, quarter, etc." (!) doshams to each horoscope, but to compare how planets are posited in both the horoscopes and see whether they are "compatible". He used to give weight only to rajju and vedha poruthams and then start comparing the horoscopes, including the dasas (periods) to ensure that the couple do not face bad periods together. On this basis he used to reject even "sama saptama" horoscopes which many jyosyars blindly approve.

So, unless we have the girl's horoscope also, it is not possible to decide whether that Srirangam jyosyar was wrong.

 

[H.Krishnamurthy]

A simple doubt sir.
The parents of both Boy and Girl search for each and every aspect of Jadagams. I beleive it is mainly in Hinduism and especially with We Brahmins. It starts like Vadama, Brahacharanam, vathoola and all that.
Vadamas claim that they are superior than all other subsect. Even after horoscope matched and confirmed by expert josiyar and then seconded by one more josiyar, it is rejected for the reason Vadama and Brahacharanam and all that.
Now the question is now a days we find lots and lots of Brahmin boys and girls go for intercaste marriages. Are they not leading a happy life ? If not what is prompting the next batch of boys and girls to go in for same process.
Please don't give me an explanation that almighty intervens and make only porutha jadagam will go in for love and end in marriages.
Is any body ready to give a reply sir.

 

[sravna]

A simple doubt sir.
The parents of both Boy and Girl search for each and every aspect of Jadagams. I beleive it is mainly in Hinduism and especially with We Brahmins. It starts like Vadama, Brahacharanam, vathoola and all that.
Vadamas claim that they are superior than all other subsect. Even after horoscope matched and confirmed by expert josiyar and then seconded by one more josiyar, it is rejected for the reason Vadama and Brahacharanam and all that.
Now the question is now a days we find lots and lots of Brahmin boys and girls go for intercaste marriages. Are they not leading a happy life ? If not what is prompting the next batch of boys and girls to go in for same process.
Please don't give me an explanation that almighty intervens and make only porutha jadagam will go in for love and end in marriages.
Is any body ready to give a reply sir.

Dear Sir,

Horoscope can be used only to predict but not to change one's fate. The horoscope of a person itself has enough information to predict what sort of spouse, occupation etc. awaits him. So accept it or not, other factors will come in to play when you try to take an action contrary to what the horoscope predicts. Having said that I think horoscopes do not predict 100% accurately. This is because the strength of the indicators play a role in deciding the certainty of a predicted event happening. If the strength is very very high, then the probability of that event happening is very high and so on. That is the reason even the most talented astrologers can't say that an event will certainly happen.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.H.Krishnamurthy asked -

.....Now the question is now a days we find lots and lots of Brahmin boys and girls go for intercaste marriages. Are they not leading a happy life ? If not what is prompting the next batch of boys and girls to go in for same process.
Please don't give me an explanation that almighty intervens and make only porutha jadagam will go in for love and end in marriages.
Is any body ready to give a reply sir.

Sri.Krisnamurthy Sir,

Greetings. There are many scholars here, who would give you more detailed reply.

We, the human beings formed and follow the caste system in one part of the world....actually a very small part of the world. Not all the marriages within the Hindu religion follow 'horoscope matching'. They don't. Neither all the marriages arranged after checking all the compatibilities succeed, nor all the marriages fail if the 'horoscope matching' were not considered .

For example, in the case of myself with my wife, we don't have 'thina porurtham'. Usually the matching would have been rejected. It's sometime since we have been married..over 30 years....Do we fight everyday? yes, we do. But, are we leading a happy life? yes, we do.

About Intercaste marriages .... two of my nieces and one nephew married intercaste. Actually, they don't seem to have anymore challenges than the 'ordinary' couples. I dare say, they face lesser challenges..there is no misunderstanding or fights between their parents!

If you believe in Almighty, you should also believe Almighty does not discriminate...Almighty blesses everyone, every couple. Almighty would be beyond man made religions.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

.......unless we have the girl's horoscope also, it is not possible to decide whether that Srirangam jyosyar was wrong.

Sri.Sangom Sir,

Greetings. Thanks for your detailed reply (not that I understood it much. My knowledge in astrology is very very limited). The said Srirangam astrologer did not even bother to check our son's horoscope with the girl's chart; his horoscope was rejected 'on sight' basis.....(That astrologer calculated 'Kumba lagnam' for him, and rejected completely. In those days, I used to ring and follow these things. That's how I found out about this. Later on I stopped bothering altogether).

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

Recently I had a peculiar experience while searching for a suitable alliance for my Son.
I collected 10 horoscopes from different matrimonials ys with my son's jadagam and approched josiyar, who made the matching of my jadagam and my wife's jadagam about 32 years back.( to be precise end of 1978 ).
Out of 10 , he refused 8 jadagams and selected only 2 jadagams which he claimed and ranked as no 1 and no 2.
Immediatly contacted no 1 and got a message that with God's grace the marriage of that girl was settled.
The 2 nd rank girl's father approched some other josiyar at Bangalore and he has rejected my son's jadagam and informed him that there is no match.
Now the question is A pair of matching jadagams matched by a josiyar at a remote village in tamil nadu is rejected at Bangalore as not matching.
Is there any different scales for matching of horoscopes at different places.
2 nd question as per the Book published by LIFCO publishers , written by Mr. Ramaiyengar in page no 149 , it says that Chevvai in 4 th place from lagnam will be treated as Chevvai dosha jadagam or to be treated as no dosha jadagam if the 4 th house is MEENAM.
Some body clarify me for a Dhanur lagnam jadagam if the guja in Meenam is dosha jadagam or sudhdha jadagam or is it to be treated as dosha jadagam with pariharam.
Is anybody ready to clarify me sir.

dear HK,

i wish you the best in your endeavours.

from all my relatives, i have come to undestand that finding a girl for tambram boys is like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack.

we add further handicaps to this process through jadhagams, location, status, salary expectations, in laws and what not.

if it may be of come comfort to you, i have also found that girls have equal difficulties in finding guys they like. i attribute it solely to the fact that if they have 10 criteria, unlike yesteryears, where the girls compromised, today the girls stick with it, come hell or high water.

add to it, the previous generations starting from the 60s did not contribute enough to the gene pool. hence not only is our community dispersed, but we have far few girls to chose from than our time.

it may be best to discuss with your son, as to what can be compromised to achieve the desired marital status within a timeboxed period. once again best wishes.

 

[sangom]

A simple doubt sir.
The parents of both Boy and Girl search for each and every aspect of Jadagams. I beleive it is mainly in Hinduism and especially with We Brahmins. It starts like Vadama, Brahacharanam, vathoola and all that.
Vadamas claim that they are superior than all other subsect. Even after horoscope matched and confirmed by expert josiyar and then seconded by one more josiyar, it is rejected for the reason Vadama and Brahacharanam and all that.
Now the question is now a days we find lots and lots of Brahmin boys and girls go for intercaste marriages. Are they not leading a happy life ? If not what is prompting the next batch of boys and girls to go in for same process.
Please don't give me an explanation that almighty intervens and make only porutha jadagam will go in for love and end in marriages.
Is any body ready to give a reply sir.

Shri Krishnamurthy,

If you are prepared to dispense with "horoscope matching" and select the boy/girl according to the rest of the preferences, marriage will happen far more easily. Among the "horoscope-matchers" notions of sub-caste, gotra etc. will be strong. So, if you are in that group you will face such difficulties.

 

[H.Krishnamurthy]

Fine my Dear Friends. Now wish to inform you all the genuine ness of our Jodhida pandithars.
Please refer my mail at the begining of this Thread. The horoscope which josiyar of my native place confirmed matching and Girl's Father informed me that it was rejected by Bangalore josiyar.
This time I approched the same Bangalore Josiyar with Few more Jadagam collected from various Matrimonies.
He rejected 2 girls jadagam as 7 th pavadhibadhi sari ille and all that.
I had an Idea and took the jadagam which he earlier rejected ( read begining of this thread ) and gave him. He took littlle longer time in reading that jadagam then took my son's jadagam and started caluclating some thing using his fingers. Took a breif 15 minutes and finally confirmed that Divyama porundhi irukku edhukkum ponne pethavalayum kettukkongo.
Now don't tell me sir that my friend approched him at wrong time and I approched him at right time .
It is not 100 guru and all that. If our jadagams are Good our Kid's jadagam will match other wise no.

 

[sangom]

Fine my Dear Friends. Now wish to inform you all the genuine ness of our Jodhida pandithars.
Please refer my mail at the begining of this Thread. The horoscope which josiyar of my native place confirmed matching and Girl's Father informed me that it was rejected by Bangalore josiyar.
This time I approched the same Bangalore Josiyar with Few more Jadagam collected from various Matrimonies.
He rejected 2 girls jadagam as 7 th pavadhibadhi sari ille and all that.
I had an Idea and took the jadagam which he earlier rejected ( read begining of this thread ) and gave him. He took littlle longer time in reading that jadagam then took my son's jadagam and started caluclating some thing using his fingers. Took a breif 15 minutes and finally confirmed that Divyama porundhi irukku edhukkum ponne pethavalayum kettukkongo.
Now don't tell me sir that my friend approched him at wrong time and I approched him at right time .
It is not 100 guru and all that. If our jadagams are Good our Kid's jadagam will match other wise no.

Shri Krishnamurthy,

I hope you will now be ready to dispense with horoscope matching. I would like to know how you decide.

 

[kunjuppu]

Fine my Dear Friends. Now wish to inform you all the genuine ness of our Jodhida pandithars.
Please refer my mail at the begining of this Thread. The horoscope which josiyar of my native place confirmed matching and Girl's Father informed me that it was rejected by Bangalore josiyar.
This time I approched the same Bangalore Josiyar with Few more Jadagam collected from various Matrimonies.
He rejected 2 girls jadagam as 7 th pavadhibadhi sari ille and all that.
I had an Idea and took the jadagam which he earlier rejected ( read begining of this thread ) and gave him. He took littlle longer time in reading that jadagam then took my son's jadagam and started caluclating some thing using his fingers. Took a breif 15 minutes and finally confirmed that Divyama porundhi irukku edhukkum ponne pethavalayum kettukkongo.
Now don't tell me sir that my friend approched him at wrong time and I approched him at right time .
It is not 100 guru and all that. If our jadagams are Good our Kid's jadagam will match other wise no.

BK,

this is but a pyrrhic victory, i think. would you be able to go to the girl's side now and reclaim your initiative, and also a bride for your son?

the census has just come out with depressing figures about gender ratio - 914 girls for 1000 boys. us tambrams cannot take comfort that we will be ok because we don't practise female foeticide.

our girls are now fair game, for other castes and groups. and considering that tambram boys side still demand the girl's side foot the full cost of the wedding ('simple marriage no expectations') it is a wonderful temptation for the girls to seek out of caste love marriages with expenses equal to ZERO.

i have said numerous times, that boys's side if they are eager to marry within caste, and finding it difficult to attract brides, make some extraordinary offers like footing 100% of the wedding expenses. so far, it has been a stubborn silence from the grooms' side. i guess they would rather their son be single than take some remedy measures.

 

[KRS]

Dear H. Krishnamurthy Ji,

Non-matching of horoscopes is a very time honored way to reject an alliance, really based on other criteria, so as not to offend with real reasons. I would just let it go.

Regards,
KRS

Fine my Dear Friends. Now wish to inform you all the genuine ness of our Jodhida pandithars.
Please refer my mail at the begining of this Thread. The horoscope which josiyar of my native place confirmed matching and Girl's Father informed me that it was rejected by Bangalore josiyar.
This time I approched the same Bangalore Josiyar with Few more Jadagam collected from various Matrimonies.
He rejected 2 girls jadagam as 7 th pavadhibadhi sari ille and all that.
I had an Idea and took the jadagam which he earlier rejected ( read begining of this thread ) and gave him. He took littlle longer time in reading that jadagam then took my son's jadagam and started caluclating some thing using his fingers. Took a breif 15 minutes and finally confirmed that Divyama porundhi irukku edhukkum ponne pethavalayum kettukkongo.
Now don't tell me sir that my friend approched him at wrong time and I approched him at right time .
It is not 100 guru and all that. If our jadagams are Good our Kid's jadagam will match other wise no.

 

[Ramacchandran]

The Horoscope doesn't Match! that means your family values and or your son's qualifications are not up to the expectations of the opponent. (Bride/ Groom)

 

[sangom]

The Horoscope doesn't Match! that means your family values and or your son's qualifications are not up to the expectations of the opponent. (Bride/ Groom)

Let us not say "opponent"; they are the 'other side'. When it comes to the marriage of son almost all people face such difficulties now in the Tabra community. Recently my friend - whose son, 32, is still unmarried - telephoned a girl's father at 3.00 P.M. and got rebuked in very coarse words for disturbing the afternoon siesta of the girl's father!

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

i can detect ramacc's frustration and anger. i think he feels that BK is failing his son. truly so, as per the norms of his family and their expectation.

what i cannot understand, is why he is not offering to go beyond the norms and offer something 'extra' - say foot the bill for the wedding or 50/50?

would that be treated with suspicion on the girl's side? would that be lowering one's status or dignity? how are these perceived in today's middle class tambram community circles, i wonder!

i would not even venture about ic marriages, for sure to get burned there

 

[sangom]

sangom,

i can detect ramacc's frustration and anger. i think he feels that BK is failing his son. truly so, as per the norms of his family and their expectation.

what i cannot understand, is why he is not offering to go beyond the norms and offer something 'extra' - say foot the bill for the wedding or 50/50?

would that be treated with suspicion on the girl's side? would that be lowering one's status or dignity? how are these perceived in today's middle class tambram community circles, i wonder!

i would not even venture about ic marriages, for sure to get burned there

Kunjuppu,

I think today the girls' parents want the best of all possible choices, whereas there are tabra boys who have already crossed 28, 29 or even 30 and are not the "புளியங்கொம்பு" we normally say. Naturally, it has become a difficult proposition to find brides for such boys. My friend whom I referred to, comes under this category. He is very aware of the realities but unable to let go of horoscopes, caste, gotra etc. I personally feel he/his son should go for a girl in some secured job like banks, LIC, government etc., because his son does not have a steady job; but I don't know what is in their minds.

While on the subject, it may be relevant to mention that a boy in IT earning very well (upwards of one lakh p.m., I gather) could not get a bride for long as his appearance was below par, I would say. Now 31 or 32, he has finally been successful to get an equally well-placed, well-earning girl, but appearance-wise, she is fit for him. Only if the boy's side is prepared to make such compromises they are able to get alliance, today.

 

[kunjuppu]

.............that a boy in IT earning very well (upwards of one lakh p.m., I gather) could not get a bride for long as his appearance was below par, I would say. Now 31 or 32, he has finally been successful to get an equally well-placed, well-earning girl, but appearance-wise, she is fit for him. Only if the boy's side is prepared to make such compromises they are able to get alliance, today.

dear sangom,

after all beauty is in the eyes of the beholder

i have seen in tambram and muslim families - the darkie rich boys marrying fairish poor girls. the gene pool for tambrams come from pattars, who i think on the whole have a fairer skin tone than their tamil sisters. remember actor jayaram's comment on buffalo toned tamil girls?

tamil muslims, get their stock lighter skinned, through marriage to hyderabadi brethren, most of them ex nawab's household folks, descended from persians.

you know sangom, the need to mate at the right time of life is so important, that i think it is a shame that nowadays it is held up for the boys due to adamancy of the parents. in the past, the girls' parents went through all the hoops and bounds to get their daughters married - they never hesitated to accumulate kadans for this purpose.

with the boys' cases this year, i hear only complaints, anger, self righteous indignation (how DARE the girls side behave this way!!) and above all a resignation tending to misery.

what is it that stops them from just jumping of those lakshman rekha, and do the needful to get their wards hitched. don't they want grandchildren. children know no caste. the reason for this breast beat, is that i just got off the phone from india, with another such losing boy's case.

even God cannot save these people from their neanderthal attitudes.

 

[Ramacchandran]

sangom,

i can detect ramacc's frustration and anger. i think he feels that BK is failing his son. truly so, as per the norms of his family and their expectation.

what i cannot understand, is why he is not offering to go beyond the norms and offer something 'extra' - say foot the bill for the wedding or 50/50?

would that be treated with suspicion on the girl's side? would that be lowering one's status or dignity? how are these perceived in today's middle class tambram community circles, i wonder!

i would not even venture about ic marriages, for sure to get burned there

Some time back I attended a Swayavaram, where the girl publicly announced that her salary will go to her parents and only who prefer this may meet and consult her parents with horoscope. Of course every one appreciated that. But alas! No takers. I am still seeing her profile.

Once a man marries a woman he takes care of the family and looking after the good and bad of the girl. Now a days companies employing the boys pays the medical bill from delivery and the delivery expanses are also paid by the boy.He insures his health with his spouse and their children. He take care of their education. Only 20 percent of the brahmin community prefers the employment of his wife and many wish the mother to take care of their child(ren).

The present day condition is the gold touches its peak, silver flying high and food prices and expanses for marriages are touching the sky.

The girl's side can escape with a word that they prayed god that if an alliance is settled we will do it in a temple in a remote area (which will not be reachable by any friends easily) which will be attended by 10 to 50 persons (This may cost Rs100,000) and later on in the city at the groom's expanse they can give a reception.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Kunjuppu,
A small correction in your posts.It is HK(and not BK).
My Punjabi friend used to say jokularly that the girl at the age of 18 to 25 will ask 'HOW is HE','What is He' 'who is He' When the same girl reaches the age of 25 to 30 will ask 'What is He' 'Who is He'. When the same girl crosses the age of 30 will only ask 'WHERE is HE'.
Similarly BOYS will also react in the same manner.
I fully agree with you that Parents do have responsibility to ensure that their wards settle down in life at the appropriate age.In most of the Tabra families,
there is an unwritten convention that girls in the family are to be married first and the boy though elder to all the girls have to wait till completion of the marriage of his younger sisters.Perhaps parents are worried that the Boy may not share the financial burden of sister's marriage once he is married.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri.Kunjuppu,
A small correction in your posts.It is HK(and not BK).
My Punjabi friend used to say jokularly that the girl at the age of 18 to 25 will ask 'HOW is HE','What is He' 'who is He' When the same girl reaches the age of 25 to 30 will ask 'What is He' 'Who is He'. When the same girl crosses the age of 30 will only ask 'WHERE is HE'.
Similarly BOYS will also react in the same manner.
I fully agree with you that Parents do have responsibility to ensure that their wards settle down in life at the appropriate age.In most of the Tabra families,
there is an unwritten convention that girls in the family are to be married first and the boy though elder to all the girls have to wait till completion of the marriage of his younger sisters.Perhaps parents are worried that the Boy may not share the financial burden of sister's marriage once he is married.

Dear Shri Krishnamurthy,

The situation is fast changing with intelligent parents showing the way. Last year or so, one of my acquaintance-cum-distant relative invited us for marriage of his elder son while the younger daughter, also very ready for marriage, was there. He said that a good alliance fortunately came for the boy and they did not want to miss this, considering that it is now difficult for boys to get suitable girls. He added that we could no longer go by the old norms that the girl should be married first.

The daughter's marriage is taking place next month or so. Thus, people are there who are alive to the societal changes. I am also told that nowadays boys' parents are not very keen about horoscope matching, though they may say outwardly that they have consulted some astrologer in some far-off place, as our "trusted" astrologer and all that so that people do not blame them for violating the societal norms!

I think only some people like Shri H. Krishnamurthy, are sincerely going after jaatakapporutham.