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How Angavastram should be worn on different occasions?
- Thread starter P.J.
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OP
OP
P.J.
0
Upper garment at waist:
Sachsaritrasuthanidhi:
‘pradakshine praname cha devata–guru sannidhau
vastra nishpetene snana upasthane apivadane
dharyam katyam uthariyam pitrukarye suralaye’
‘The upper garment is to be at waist;
In temple and in front of God, with acharyan (guru, teacher), during pradakshinam (circumambulation), during pranamam (respectful salutation), during bath, vastra nishpetenam (after bath, water is removed from the soiled cloth with mantra once and without mantra once later), during apivadanam (after namaskaram or before), upastanam, pitrukaryam (ritual for ancestors).’
Reference:
Sri Vaishnava sadachara nirnaya, Sri Krishnamacharya (present H.H. Ahobila Mutt 45th Jeer Swamigal), Published year 1990, Page 414, Total Pages 668 +176 + 16 + xviii + 68
Pancharatra Pradipa:
Pancharatra Pradipa gives the following guide to cloth during temple worship:
A devotee should not wear dirty cloth, especially when cooking or worshiping the Deity. Used cloth that has not been washed and dried again is considered unclean. Cloth worn while sleeping, passing urine or stool, or having sex is unclean. Cloth that touches anything impure, such as wine, meat, blood, a dead body, or a woman in her menstrual period is also contaminated. Cloth
washed by a public laundry service and cloth that, though washed, has become stale are also unclean and therefore unfit to wear during Deity worship.
While worshiping the Deity, you should not wear the following types of cloth: brightly-colored cloth (for men), damp cloth, cloth that is too long or too short to be worn properly, STITCHED OR SEWN CLOTH (FOR MEN), torn cloth, oil- or dirt-stained cloth, soiled cloth, burnt cloth, or cloth chewed by animals or insects. However, you may wear silk many times before washing it, provided it has not contacted anything impure or been worn in impure places.
Unbleached, raw matka (ahimsa) silk is the best for pooja. Sheep's wool is said to be always pure, but still, you should not wear ordinary woolen cloth when worshiping the Deity, because wool particles may fall on the Deity's paraphernalia. However, you may wear wool cloth if it is very fine (no shedding wool) in which case you should reserve these items only for pooja. Synthetic cloth should not be worn when worshiping the Deity.
Source: Yahoo answers The Great Sri Vidya Raja gopalan
Sachsaritrasuthanidhi:
‘pradakshine praname cha devata–guru sannidhau
vastra nishpetene snana upasthane apivadane
dharyam katyam uthariyam pitrukarye suralaye’
‘The upper garment is to be at waist;
In temple and in front of God, with acharyan (guru, teacher), during pradakshinam (circumambulation), during pranamam (respectful salutation), during bath, vastra nishpetenam (after bath, water is removed from the soiled cloth with mantra once and without mantra once later), during apivadanam (after namaskaram or before), upastanam, pitrukaryam (ritual for ancestors).’
Reference:
Sri Vaishnava sadachara nirnaya, Sri Krishnamacharya (present H.H. Ahobila Mutt 45th Jeer Swamigal), Published year 1990, Page 414, Total Pages 668 +176 + 16 + xviii + 68
Pancharatra Pradipa:
Pancharatra Pradipa gives the following guide to cloth during temple worship:
A devotee should not wear dirty cloth, especially when cooking or worshiping the Deity. Used cloth that has not been washed and dried again is considered unclean. Cloth worn while sleeping, passing urine or stool, or having sex is unclean. Cloth that touches anything impure, such as wine, meat, blood, a dead body, or a woman in her menstrual period is also contaminated. Cloth
washed by a public laundry service and cloth that, though washed, has become stale are also unclean and therefore unfit to wear during Deity worship.
While worshiping the Deity, you should not wear the following types of cloth: brightly-colored cloth (for men), damp cloth, cloth that is too long or too short to be worn properly, STITCHED OR SEWN CLOTH (FOR MEN), torn cloth, oil- or dirt-stained cloth, soiled cloth, burnt cloth, or cloth chewed by animals or insects. However, you may wear silk many times before washing it, provided it has not contacted anything impure or been worn in impure places.
Unbleached, raw matka (ahimsa) silk is the best for pooja. Sheep's wool is said to be always pure, but still, you should not wear ordinary woolen cloth when worshiping the Deity, because wool particles may fall on the Deity's paraphernalia. However, you may wear wool cloth if it is very fine (no shedding wool) in which case you should reserve these items only for pooja. Synthetic cloth should not be worn when worshiping the Deity.
Source: Yahoo answers The Great Sri Vidya Raja gopalan
prasad1
Active member
Mr. PJ,
I know you are posting these from another source, but don't you think we shed skin cells.
Of those billions of skin cells, between 30,000 and 40,000 of them fall off every hour.
When kanappa nayanar can transplant his eye the deity did not mind. Similarly in Kalibari when they offer the goat the deity does not seem to care.
I know you are posting these from another source, but don't you think we shed skin cells.
Of those billions of skin cells, between 30,000 and 40,000 of them fall off every hour.
When kanappa nayanar can transplant his eye the deity did not mind. Similarly in Kalibari when they offer the goat the deity does not seem to care.
OP
OP
P.J.
0
Sri.Prasad Sir
We shed skin no doubt; without skin can we stand before a Temple Deity?
The Sanctum is believed to be the place of divine energy and a bare chest will be able to absorb, at least a portion of it, if the chest is not covered; it is also a sign of humility before the Deity.
I have seen villagers removing their "thallapa" in front of village chiefs and tying it on their waist;
Whenever we do any homam in our home, we are bare chested only, because the smoke from the Homa Kudam has some power which will be absorbed when bare chested.
We shed skin no doubt; without skin can we stand before a Temple Deity?
The Sanctum is believed to be the place of divine energy and a bare chest will be able to absorb, at least a portion of it, if the chest is not covered; it is also a sign of humility before the Deity.
I have seen villagers removing their "thallapa" in front of village chiefs and tying it on their waist;
Whenever we do any homam in our home, we are bare chested only, because the smoke from the Homa Kudam has some power which will be absorbed when bare chested.
sangom
0
Shri PJ,
I am sorry to interfere in your conversation with Shri Prasad. But your above post compels me to.
Why are we meticulously preventing ladies from absorbing the very same "divine energy"? Or, is it believed that women have very high absorption coefficient and may drain away all the 'divine energy' in no time?!
God obviously has not appeared directly to any man and told him about His (God's) likes and dislikes. Whatever we do before God is only "one step higher" as compared to what we used to do (or were forced by royal decree to do) before our temporal rulers. Headgear (comes as உஷ்ணீஷிணெ uṣṇīṣiṇe, in the Rudra anuvaakam) is a sign of status. Removing headgear is a sign of subservience. Similarly, removing the upper cloth is a sign of subordination. Till 100 years ago, low caste women were not allowed to wear upper clothes in Kerala. Now they do.
The energy/power absorption is just nonsense. According to the vedas, angavastram was a must during the entire vedic yajna. In order that it did not slip down and get burnt in the homakunda etc., the vedic priests twisted their angavastram into a rope-like formation and tied it with a Brahma Mudicchu (double-knot?) and some people say this is the origin of poonal. Namboodiris, Tulu Pottis, etc., still wear this in Kerala during special occasions, in addition to the permanent poonal.
An angavastram well-worn is definitely a good sight and is much better than bare bodies (BTW, even ஓங்கி உலகளந்த உத்தமன் was a bare body (பேர் பாடி)
) trying to absorb divine energy, smoke power of homams, etc., imho.
OP
OP
P.J.
0
Sangom Sir
“Why are we meticulously preventing ladies from absorbing the very same "divine energy"? Or, is it believed that women have very high absorption coefficient and may drain away all the 'divine energy' in no time?!”
You know very well the answer to your question as you are from Kerala? ( am I wrong?)
It will surely embarrass woman devotees as well men folks present over there.
‘The upper garment is to be at waist;
In temple and in front of God, with acharyan (guru, teacher), during pradakshinam (circumambulation), during pranamam (respectful salutation), during bath, vastra nishpetenam (after bath, water is removed from the soiled cloth with mantra once and without mantra once later), during apivadanam (after namaskaram or before), upastanam, pitrukaryam (ritual for ancestors).’
Reference:
Sri Vaishnava sadachara nirnaya, Sri Krishnamacharya (present H.H. Ahobila Mutt 45th Jeer Swamigal), Published year 1990, Page 414, Total Pages 668 +176 + 16 + xviii + 68
Unclean and Improper Cloth ( during Deity worship)
A devotee should not wear dirty cloth, especially when cooking or worshiping the deity. Used cloth that has not been washed and dried again is considered unclean. Cloth worn while sleeping, passing urine or stool,Cloth that touches anything impure, such as wine, meat, blood, a dead body, or a woman in her menstrual period, is also contaminated. Cloth washed by a public laundry service and cloth that, though washed, has become stale are also unclean and therefore unfit to wear during deity worship.
While worshiping the deity, you should not wear the following types of cloth: brightly-colored cloth (for men), damp cloth, cloth that is too long or too short to be worn properly, stitched or sewn cloth (for men), torn cloth, oil or dirt stained cloth, soiled cloth, burnt cloth, or cloth chewed by animals or insects. However, you may wear silk many times before washing it, provided it has not contacted anything impure or been worn in impure places.
Unbleached, raw matka (ahimsa) silk is the best for puja. Sheep’s wool is said to be always pure, but still, you should not wear ordinary woolen cloth when worshiping the deity, because wool particles may fall on the deity’s paraphernalia. However, you may wear wool cloth if it is very fine, “nonshedding” wool, in which case you should reserve these items only for puja. Synthetic cloth should not be worn when worshiping the deity.
Please note this line “stitched or sewn cloth (for men)”
Waking and Preparing for Worship - ISKCON Deity Worship Ministry
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, particularly from the Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, chapter 24. This section of the Caitanya-caritamrta was the first deity worship book in ISKCON and was called, “The Perfection of Deity Worship.”
Coming to Energy emission from Temple Deity:
There are thousands of temples all over India in different size, shape and locations but not all of them are considered to be built the Vedic way. Generally, a temple should be located at a place where earth’s magnetic wave path passes through densely. It can be in the outskirts of a town/village or city, or in middle of the dwelling place, or on a hilltop. The essence of visiting a temple is discussed here.
Now, these temples are located strategically at a place where the positive energy is abundantly available from the magnetic and electric wave distributions of north/south pole thrust. The main idol is placed in the core center of the temple, known as “*Garbhagriha*” or *Moolasthanam*. In fact, the temple structure is built after the idol has been placed. This *Moolasthanam* is where earth’s magnetic waves are found to be maximum. We know that there are some copper plates, inscribed with Vedic scripts, buried beneath the Main Idol.
The copper plate absorbs earth’s magnetic waves and radiates it.
A temple, or any place of worship, is a place where positive energy is accumulated through processes (rituals) that have been known to enhance such energy. For instance, in a temple, rituals like ringing bells, performing the aarti, lighting an incense stick, circumambulating the idol, chanting mantras and reciting shlokas, etc., enhance positive energy. This energy is also increased due to the architecture of the temple and its location. It’s amplified by the yantras or geometric diagrams that are embedded in the walls of the temple at specific locations.
This accumulated energy is then stored in the dome or vimana that is above the sanctum sanctorum (garbha griha or the place where the idol is located) in every temple, because positive energy being light, rises. When you go to a temple to pray, you add to that positive energy and also "bathe" in the energy that is already accumulated there - and you come out spiritually washed. This washing is essentially a cleansing of your aura, which is exposed to continuous attacks of negativity due to thought, illness, physical contact, etc.o the surroundings.
http://yourenergy.blogspot.co.uk/2007/05/temple-hai-na.html
http://bachodi.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/why-visit-temples-scientific-reason/
The architecture of our old temples is designed based on Vastu Shastra. The architecture is designed in a manner to continuously emit positive electromagnetic energy. And about the deities worshipped in temples. Since deities are being getting chanted by lot of mantras, they will have electro magnetic power resided in them. For smooth transformation of energy, men are advised to be bare chest while going to temple. As per our culture, Women are considered as epitome of energy. So women don't need to be bare chest while they are going to temple.
http://midhunlalg.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/prayer-mantras-temples-and-poojas.html
“Why are we meticulously preventing ladies from absorbing the very same "divine energy"? Or, is it believed that women have very high absorption coefficient and may drain away all the 'divine energy' in no time?!”
You know very well the answer to your question as you are from Kerala? ( am I wrong?)
It will surely embarrass woman devotees as well men folks present over there.
‘The upper garment is to be at waist;
In temple and in front of God, with acharyan (guru, teacher), during pradakshinam (circumambulation), during pranamam (respectful salutation), during bath, vastra nishpetenam (after bath, water is removed from the soiled cloth with mantra once and without mantra once later), during apivadanam (after namaskaram or before), upastanam, pitrukaryam (ritual for ancestors).’
Reference:
Sri Vaishnava sadachara nirnaya, Sri Krishnamacharya (present H.H. Ahobila Mutt 45th Jeer Swamigal), Published year 1990, Page 414, Total Pages 668 +176 + 16 + xviii + 68
Unclean and Improper Cloth ( during Deity worship)
A devotee should not wear dirty cloth, especially when cooking or worshiping the deity. Used cloth that has not been washed and dried again is considered unclean. Cloth worn while sleeping, passing urine or stool,Cloth that touches anything impure, such as wine, meat, blood, a dead body, or a woman in her menstrual period, is also contaminated. Cloth washed by a public laundry service and cloth that, though washed, has become stale are also unclean and therefore unfit to wear during deity worship.
While worshiping the deity, you should not wear the following types of cloth: brightly-colored cloth (for men), damp cloth, cloth that is too long or too short to be worn properly, stitched or sewn cloth (for men), torn cloth, oil or dirt stained cloth, soiled cloth, burnt cloth, or cloth chewed by animals or insects. However, you may wear silk many times before washing it, provided it has not contacted anything impure or been worn in impure places.
Unbleached, raw matka (ahimsa) silk is the best for puja. Sheep’s wool is said to be always pure, but still, you should not wear ordinary woolen cloth when worshiping the deity, because wool particles may fall on the deity’s paraphernalia. However, you may wear wool cloth if it is very fine, “nonshedding” wool, in which case you should reserve these items only for puja. Synthetic cloth should not be worn when worshiping the deity.
Please note this line “stitched or sewn cloth (for men)”
Waking and Preparing for Worship - ISKCON Deity Worship Ministry
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, particularly from the Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, chapter 24. This section of the Caitanya-caritamrta was the first deity worship book in ISKCON and was called, “The Perfection of Deity Worship.”
Coming to Energy emission from Temple Deity:
There are thousands of temples all over India in different size, shape and locations but not all of them are considered to be built the Vedic way. Generally, a temple should be located at a place where earth’s magnetic wave path passes through densely. It can be in the outskirts of a town/village or city, or in middle of the dwelling place, or on a hilltop. The essence of visiting a temple is discussed here.
Now, these temples are located strategically at a place where the positive energy is abundantly available from the magnetic and electric wave distributions of north/south pole thrust. The main idol is placed in the core center of the temple, known as “*Garbhagriha*” or *Moolasthanam*. In fact, the temple structure is built after the idol has been placed. This *Moolasthanam* is where earth’s magnetic waves are found to be maximum. We know that there are some copper plates, inscribed with Vedic scripts, buried beneath the Main Idol.
The copper plate absorbs earth’s magnetic waves and radiates it.
A temple, or any place of worship, is a place where positive energy is accumulated through processes (rituals) that have been known to enhance such energy. For instance, in a temple, rituals like ringing bells, performing the aarti, lighting an incense stick, circumambulating the idol, chanting mantras and reciting shlokas, etc., enhance positive energy. This energy is also increased due to the architecture of the temple and its location. It’s amplified by the yantras or geometric diagrams that are embedded in the walls of the temple at specific locations.
This accumulated energy is then stored in the dome or vimana that is above the sanctum sanctorum (garbha griha or the place where the idol is located) in every temple, because positive energy being light, rises. When you go to a temple to pray, you add to that positive energy and also "bathe" in the energy that is already accumulated there - and you come out spiritually washed. This washing is essentially a cleansing of your aura, which is exposed to continuous attacks of negativity due to thought, illness, physical contact, etc.o the surroundings.
http://yourenergy.blogspot.co.uk/2007/05/temple-hai-na.html
http://bachodi.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/why-visit-temples-scientific-reason/
The architecture of our old temples is designed based on Vastu Shastra. The architecture is designed in a manner to continuously emit positive electromagnetic energy. And about the deities worshipped in temples. Since deities are being getting chanted by lot of mantras, they will have electro magnetic power resided in them. For smooth transformation of energy, men are advised to be bare chest while going to temple. As per our culture, Women are considered as epitome of energy. So women don't need to be bare chest while they are going to temple.
http://midhunlalg.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/prayer-mantras-temples-and-poojas.html
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prasad1
Active member
Mr. PJ,
You are very knowledgeable about these adambars. I give you that.
But the reasons you quote are obscure at best.
Mr. Sangom has pointed out some of them.
All these rules are man made, and may have had a meaning at one time but now are useless appendages.
Like I wrote in another thread these are basically "veshams". Most of the rules or practices prescribed have lost its significance.
Really!!!!!
You have not seen Birla mandirs, or BAPS temples.
You are very knowledgeable about these adambars. I give you that.
But the reasons you quote are obscure at best.
Mr. Sangom has pointed out some of them.
On the other hand if you visit a gurudwara you have to cover your head.
All these rules are man made, and may have had a meaning at one time but now are useless appendages.
Like I wrote in another thread these are basically "veshams". Most of the rules or practices prescribed have lost its significance.
Really!!!!!
You have not seen Birla mandirs, or BAPS temples.
OP
OP
P.J.
0
Prasad Sir
please go through my ref My post no2
'‘The upper garment is to be at waist;
In temple and in front of God, with acharyan (guru, teacher), during pradakshinam (circumambulation), during pranamam (respectful salutation)"
It is only showing respect, not submission.
As a guideline, a man should remove his hat to show respect for the dead, when a national anthem is played or in the presence of royalty, in a church or courtroom, and during other solemn occasions, when meeting someone, and indoors while in the presence of a lady (though there is no actual relationship to uncovered heads and any of those places and situations)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headgear
Each locality, religion will have different guidelines, we follow what is prescribed for us.
I am not telling all Temples are constructed as per Vastu Sastra.
please go through my ref My post no2
'‘The upper garment is to be at waist;
In temple and in front of God, with acharyan (guru, teacher), during pradakshinam (circumambulation), during pranamam (respectful salutation)"
It is only showing respect, not submission.
As a guideline, a man should remove his hat to show respect for the dead, when a national anthem is played or in the presence of royalty, in a church or courtroom, and during other solemn occasions, when meeting someone, and indoors while in the presence of a lady (though there is no actual relationship to uncovered heads and any of those places and situations)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headgear
Each locality, religion will have different guidelines, we follow what is prescribed for us.
I am not telling all Temples are constructed as per Vastu Sastra.
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OP
OP
P.J.
0
Many villagers in South India will not have a shirt, but they will have a towel, and most of the time they use the towel as head gear.When they see a respectful man like Panchayat Board President, they remove that head gear( a towel) and wear it under their waist; it is a sign of respect only.
sangom
0
Shri PJ sir,
The vedic people did not have any temples nor did they do idol worship. Agni or Fire was their "pratyaksha devata" and all communication between all the other devas and the vedic priests was through Agni only. Other devas used to be invited by the word "svaahaa" which means 'we invite you' (நாங்கள் உன்னைப் பணிவுடன் அழைக்கிறோம்) . In due course, the priesthood invented two wives for Agni by name svaahaa & svadhaa !!
The question of temples being built in "Vedic way" does not, therefore, arise.
The intensity of the field is greatest near the poles and weaker near the Equator. If we accept this scientifically proven fact, then temples should ideally be crowding the polar regions ! And, India is not the ideal place for any temple. AFAIK, there is a week electric field around the Earth but it is running radially inwards. So, it is uniform in the earth's surface. Though there is a confusion between wave path, energy, wave distribution, etc., I have overlooked these.
Copper is a weak magnetic material and so it does not absorb magnetism much. Iron is much better in this quality. I don't understand what is sought to be conveyed by the term "vedic scripts". I have also not seen any temple in which first the Garbhagriha was completed, the idol placed there and thereafter the complete structure of the entire Temple was completed in due course. Can you name a few such temples with evidence from temple carvings and/or copper-plate inscriptions?
According to the Kerala sampradaaya, the moolavar will be installed only after all the workers connected with temple building go out permanently (because they may not be from dvija castes) and the whole temple is suitably purified of all asuddhams according to the prescribed methods.
According to science we cannot differentiate energy as positive, negative, etc. Energy is energy and it denotes capacity to do work. AFAIK, a temple does not have any such energy merely because of the factors listed. But believers may get some nostalgic feeling of well-being simply due to association of ideas right from childhood. Yantras are not routinely located in temple walls. All Yantras come out of Tantric methods of worship. Since the Tamil Nadu temples do not follow Tantric rules but are governed by Aagamas, I doubt very much whether Yantas will be there in most Tamil Nadu temples. Kerala temples follow Tantric rules but even then yantras are not deposited in temple walls etc.
I don't agree that any kind of energy can be "light" in the sense of weighing less than air. If we are getting cleansed, naturally that bathing medium - here the energy - must get dirty and polluted. So, each temple-goer makes the next devotee bathe in more polluted energy.
Kerala temples have a certain vaastu vidya but today these are not at all followed strictly. I don't know about TN or other states. I also do not agree that dieties "getting chanted by lot of mantras" will have electro-magnetic power, because granite just cannot have such property. Secondly, there is more of gossip, idle talk, etc., also going on within temples; will these not take away the electro magnetic power? If women are epitome of energy why should they go to temple at all?
Shri. PJ, I feel the materials you have supplied are ludicrous. Why don't people like you and me, who are quite old and have nothing much to lose, come to terms with the realities and then advise the younger generations to lead a better life away from all these junk sort of philosophies which are eagerly consumed only by the unquestioning minds who are mortgaged to religion?
OP
OP
P.J.
0
Sri. Sangom Sir
This post is about how Angavastram should be worn on different occasions.This post was not answered since 27/10/2012
Since no one was coming out with an answer, i searched various sites and came up with an answer.
Like every other post,this post is also dragged to other topics irrelevant to the main question.
Regards
Padmanabhan.J
This post is about how Angavastram should be worn on different occasions.This post was not answered since 27/10/2012
Since no one was coming out with an answer, i searched various sites and came up with an answer.
Like every other post,this post is also dragged to other topics irrelevant to the main question.
Regards
Padmanabhan.J
prasad1
Active member
Mr. PJ do you really believe in all these mumbo jumbo that you right. You seem like a reasonably well read, well travelled person. I expected more rational thinking from you.
OP
OP
P.J.
0
Sri Prasad Sir and Sri Sangom Sir
We have all stood for two hours to purchase a Cinema Ticket in those days, also we have stood in a Temple line ( like Sri.Balaji Temple ) for more than 2 hours; did you feel any difference between these two waiting?
You can also visit a Jail and then a Temple and compare your state of body and mind on those visits; surely you will agree that there is some positive energy while visiting a Temple, not when you visit a cinema hall or a Jail.
If you say you do not feel any difference between visiting a temple and a cinema hall, then i have no argument further.
Temples were constructed as per Vastu Sastra to enable common man to take advantage of doing worship; Energy lost in a day’s work is regained through a temple visit and one is refreshed slightly. The positive energy that is spread out in the entire temple and especially around where the main idol is placed, are simply absorbed by one's body and mind.
This is the benefit of visiting a Temple
Regards
Padmanabhan.J
We have all stood for two hours to purchase a Cinema Ticket in those days, also we have stood in a Temple line ( like Sri.Balaji Temple ) for more than 2 hours; did you feel any difference between these two waiting?
You can also visit a Jail and then a Temple and compare your state of body and mind on those visits; surely you will agree that there is some positive energy while visiting a Temple, not when you visit a cinema hall or a Jail.
If you say you do not feel any difference between visiting a temple and a cinema hall, then i have no argument further.
Temples were constructed as per Vastu Sastra to enable common man to take advantage of doing worship; Energy lost in a day’s work is regained through a temple visit and one is refreshed slightly. The positive energy that is spread out in the entire temple and especially around where the main idol is placed, are simply absorbed by one's body and mind.
This is the benefit of visiting a Temple
Regards
Padmanabhan.J
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OP
OP
P.J.
0
Sri Sangom Sir, Sri Prasad Sir
You must have also performed many Homams etc while in India; did you wear a Shirt while performing that?
When you performed your son/ daughter's marriage, did you wear shirt while doing the important rituals?
We follow our tradition as far as possible wherever we are; in US , purohits wear even Wool garments during winter; we can not say that is wrong also.
I have attended a few Aavani avittam rituals while in US with bare chest, and none of the other brahmins who came for that were wearing any Shirts.
It all depends upon when, where , and what ritual we are doing.
Regards
Padmanabhan.J
You must have also performed many Homams etc while in India; did you wear a Shirt while performing that?
When you performed your son/ daughter's marriage, did you wear shirt while doing the important rituals?
We follow our tradition as far as possible wherever we are; in US , purohits wear even Wool garments during winter; we can not say that is wrong also.
I have attended a few Aavani avittam rituals while in US with bare chest, and none of the other brahmins who came for that were wearing any Shirts.
It all depends upon when, where , and what ritual we are doing.
Regards
Padmanabhan.J
OP
OP
P.J.
0
Sri Prasad Sir, Sri Sangom Sir
You both are very highly learned and doing lot of contribution here in this site
If you both give opinion that our Temples are not really vibrating divine energies, will it not give a wrong message to those youngsters who read them?
Indian President Ramaswami Venkataraman was blocked from entering the inner chamber of a Hindu temple because he and his guards were wearing shirts, it was reported Friday. The president and his bodyguards were visiting the Nataraja Temple in southern Tamil Nadu state on Thursday when the incident occurred, the Calcutta-based newspaper said. It said that although Venkataraman was willing to remove his shirt, as is customary at the shrine, he felt it would be "unbecoming" for his guards to do.
Featured Articles about Hindu Temple - Page 2 - Los Angeles Times
Being in such a high position, RV accepted our Temple tradition and did not enter the sanctum with his body guards.
In Sabari malai, women devotees are not allowed for the obvious reason that their presence among male devotees might spoil their viratham.
Each Temple has some Tradition and many Kerala Temples where men are not allowed with upper garment;
Seeing US temples, where everyone wears neat dress, we can not insist that such type of Dharshan should be allowed in
Guruvatur temple and Sabari Malai Etc. is not a sound logic.
You both are very highly learned and doing lot of contribution here in this site
If you both give opinion that our Temples are not really vibrating divine energies, will it not give a wrong message to those youngsters who read them?
Indian President Ramaswami Venkataraman was blocked from entering the inner chamber of a Hindu temple because he and his guards were wearing shirts, it was reported Friday. The president and his bodyguards were visiting the Nataraja Temple in southern Tamil Nadu state on Thursday when the incident occurred, the Calcutta-based newspaper said. It said that although Venkataraman was willing to remove his shirt, as is customary at the shrine, he felt it would be "unbecoming" for his guards to do.
Featured Articles about Hindu Temple - Page 2 - Los Angeles Times
Being in such a high position, RV accepted our Temple tradition and did not enter the sanctum with his body guards.
In Sabari malai, women devotees are not allowed for the obvious reason that their presence among male devotees might spoil their viratham.
Each Temple has some Tradition and many Kerala Temples where men are not allowed with upper garment;
Seeing US temples, where everyone wears neat dress, we can not insist that such type of Dharshan should be allowed in
Guruvatur temple and Sabari Malai Etc. is not a sound logic.
prasad1
Active member
It is all in your head, and thoughts.
I agree with that wholeheartedly, but it is customary.
Before Gandhiji or some of the tribal leaders, people will visit England only in English cloths.
Nancy Reagan was the first dignitary who refused to curtsy to the queen.
But to elevate a costume to sacred level is like saying that Hindu weddings are sacred, but others are not.
Why can we not come down to earth from these artificial pedestals. When you are grounded you do not have to fear falling down, but when you are on a pedestal someone is going to kick that pedestal from you.
Please do not go about thinking that I will go improperly dressed to a court, but I know it is an attire for that occation, not a devine requirement but man made.
That is whole lot of you know what.
The PGA tour did not allow women, i suppose it was for their viratham.
Abdul Kalam our esteemed President was not allowed in Rameswaram Temple. Do you think I should be proud of it? Yesudas was barred from Guruvayur temple should I be proud of that?
Earlier days men were supposed to go bare chested so that they can see the poonal, and if no poonal no entry. It was that tradition, your explanation of energy is full of hole.
I am not going to proceed with this argument any further. I think I have said enough in this regard.
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prasad1
Active member
I had no argument with your original post. On the other hand I commended you for the posting about the custom.
My problem was with the reasons given. If I had to go to a special occasion I always find out the dress code.
OP
OP
P.J.
0
you only started to question the answer i posted from another source; please refer post no 2; now you say "I had no argument with your original post"
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sangom
0
Dear Shri PJ,
I feel that all the talk of positive energy, magnetic force, electric waves, and all that is made out in favour of temples, is just without any basis. When the new generation born after the Indian independence, the midnight's children, came of age, they started viewing manu of our beliefs with suspicion and wanted to know the scientific basis if any. So, a set of new Gurus, etc., started spinning out new tales without any basis. These ideas which you give here are all from these neo-pseudo-scientific avataar of hinduism, imo.
I don't feel any positive energy or elated feeling by going to temples. On the contrary, the long queues, crowds and the utterly business approach of the various functionaries, leaves a very bad impression in my mind.
The 'bare chest' theory is equally non-sensical according to me. In most north Indian temples men and women wear full dress. This is so even in Kasi. Going by your reasoning, people are not absorbing Lord Viswanatha's positive energy to the full extent possible; the same holds good in the case of Tirupathi, I think.
Angavastram as I said in an earlier post, was compulsory for the priests who performed the vedic yagas or sacrifices. Probably, exhibiting male torsos was not considered an attractive proposition even for the devas like agni, indra, varuna, etc., who used to be called to come and participate in those yagas. But those people probably found that the angavastram was a source of fire-risk and hence made it into a type of thick cord to be worn just like the poonal.
Removing the upper cloth and holding it in hand, or tying it on waist was considered as a sign of showing subordination; the other side of this practice was that menfolk removed their angavastram and tied it around their waist when they met someone worthy of their respect and reverence, like elders, king, deity in a temple, etc. That's all there is to it. No exotic or supernatural reasons at all.
I am indeed surprised that you believe in all such baseless propaganda for bordering on obscurantism. I feel the coming generations will do much better off without such theories.
I feel that all the talk of positive energy, magnetic force, electric waves, and all that is made out in favour of temples, is just without any basis. When the new generation born after the Indian independence, the midnight's children, came of age, they started viewing manu of our beliefs with suspicion and wanted to know the scientific basis if any. So, a set of new Gurus, etc., started spinning out new tales without any basis. These ideas which you give here are all from these neo-pseudo-scientific avataar of hinduism, imo.
I don't feel any positive energy or elated feeling by going to temples. On the contrary, the long queues, crowds and the utterly business approach of the various functionaries, leaves a very bad impression in my mind.
The 'bare chest' theory is equally non-sensical according to me. In most north Indian temples men and women wear full dress. This is so even in Kasi. Going by your reasoning, people are not absorbing Lord Viswanatha's positive energy to the full extent possible; the same holds good in the case of Tirupathi, I think.
Angavastram as I said in an earlier post, was compulsory for the priests who performed the vedic yagas or sacrifices. Probably, exhibiting male torsos was not considered an attractive proposition even for the devas like agni, indra, varuna, etc., who used to be called to come and participate in those yagas
. But those people probably found that the angavastram was a source of fire-risk and hence made it into a type of thick cord to be worn just like the poonal.Removing the upper cloth and holding it in hand, or tying it on waist was considered as a sign of showing subordination; the other side of this practice was that menfolk removed their angavastram and tied it around their waist when they met someone worthy of their respect and reverence, like elders, king, deity in a temple, etc. That's all there is to it. No exotic or supernatural reasons at all.
I am indeed surprised that you believe in all such baseless propaganda for bordering on obscurantism. I feel the coming generations will do much better off without such theories.
prasad1
Active member
Sir,
My post#3 was about the reasons you gave in post#2 for the practice. Please reread the postings again. I have never argued with a dress code. I do not go if I do not agree with the dress code. Like a black tie dinner, or a nudist beach.
I take out my shirt when I visit a Kerala Temple, or a head cover when I go to a gurudwara.
A agree with post#20.
Let us be honest, if we do not know the reason let us say "I do not Know". When we are not honest and start giving bogus reasons, and made up stories, others will see through it and stop respecting us. If we are honest and accept our failings people will respect us more, and believe in what we really know.
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OP
OP
P.J.
0
‘The upper garment is to be at waist; during pranamam (respectful salutation), says Sachsaritrasuthanidhi:
I did not invent it.
Village People tie their head towel under their waist when they see respectful persons like School teacher, Gurus, Mushiefs, Police personnel and other such heads.
I did not invent it.
Village People tie their head towel under their waist when they see respectful persons like School teacher, Gurus, Mushiefs, Police personnel and other such heads.
OP
OP
P.J.
0
I still believe that if there is a Temple Tradition, we must follow that;if some temples in Kerala and Tamilnadu do not allow male devotees with upper garment, the issue is to be taken with them; If RV Ex President of India could respect and understand the tradition of a particular Temple, one must know Hindu Temple Traditions are to respected.
I have no answer to Yesudas or Ex president Abdul Kalam matter.
I have no answer to Yesudas or Ex president Abdul Kalam matter.
prasad1
Active member
I have no argument with that statement.
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