How much the soul weighs - 21 grams.

[prasad1]

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The title refers to a belief propagated by the early 20th century research of physician Dr. Duncan MacDougall which attempted to show scientific proof of the existence of the immortal human soul by recording a small loss of body weight (representing the departure of the soul) immediately following death. The research by MacDougall attempted to follow the scientific method and showed some variance in results (21 grams is the reported weight loss from the death of the first patient). His final report was not fully recognized by the scientific community at the time.

This was a 2003 movie.

I do not know what is soul in terms of Sanatan Dharma. But I found it very unnerving movie.

 

[renuka]

Dear Prasad Ji,

I have read about this before but you know the same person did the experiment on a dog and he said there was no difference in weight noted.


So he concluded that animals do not have souls which matches with his Christian believes.

Soul in Sanathana Dharma is just temporarily trapped Universal Consciousness.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Renuka,

How do you trap consciousness? That too a universal one? What is it trapped in? If you mean contained in an enclosed volume, would it not amount to saying that the consciousness is a vastu with spatial dimensions, or a mass? These are the questions that your statement immediately begs. Let the members discuss this.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

How do you trap consciousness? That too a universal one? What is it trapped in? If you mean contained in an enclosed volume, would it not amount to saying that the consciousness is a vastu with spatial dimensions, or a mass? These are the questions that your statement immediately begs. Let the members discuss this.

Dear Sir,

This topic has been discussed many times in other threads.
I can't remember which thread but it was discussed when subtle body and jeeva atma was discussed...where Soul=Trapped Universal Consciousness +Subtle Body..remember the Air Trapped in the Balloon Analogy from an Advaitic Point of View.

Anyway let members discuss again if they wish so...cos I do not wish to discuss the same thing over and over again.

The take home point is the same Universal Consciousness pervades everything right up from single cell units..to Multicellular units like mouse,ape man and humans.

 

[sangom]

Dear Renuka,

How do you trap consciousness? That too a universal one? What is it trapped in? If you mean contained in an enclosed volume, would it not amount to saying that the consciousness is a vastu with spatial dimensions, or a mass? These are the questions that your statement immediately begs. Let the members discuss this.

Dear Shri Raju,

My personal belief in this matter, which is the sum total of all my life experiences and thoughts, it may be said — is that the Universal Consciousness (UC) is something akin to Universal Gravitation; it is everywhere and anywhere - even within each living cell, but has no spatial dimensions AFA we can say now. (May be science will, one day in the future, identify a Higgs' Boson like "vastu" underlying "Life" and the Universal Consciousness.

This UC can be considered as 'trapped' only in a manner of speaking. This should be clear from the fact that the very same UC has unfettered freedom to leave the body and go away at its own pre-decided moment without any third-party help. I tend to imagine that UC is very much like the electric power supply to, say, a TV set. The power is supplied continuously (and I am ignoring power-cuts/load shedding here) to the set which makes it perform all its functions. But if there is any major obstruction to the power paths, the TV set breaks down and becomes useless or 'dead'. Since Man creates the TV set, he is able to 'repair' the TV sets under certain circumstances but he is unable to act equally effectively in the case of human bodies. Even so, with the advances in medical science and surgery techniques, there have been cases of "clinically dead" or apparently dead persons being revived in certain cases.

My beliefs about soul or UC does not permit any mass or weight. This 21 gram finding was later rubbished by studies, I believe, but some scandinavian doctor had found some mirror image of a rabbit floating up from its physical body at death.

 

[prasad1]

UC does not permit any mass or weight.

I do not equate Atma with soul.
Atma is Universal Consciousness.
Just as pot-space exist distinct from rest of the space, but by breaking the pot the trapped space is one with the universal space.
The trapped space is our perception. In the similar manner the the jivatma is trapped universal Consciousness.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Shri Sangom and Sri Prasad,

Thanks for the input. Now the question is what is this consciousness you are talking about. Does it illuminate and show to itself only those which are external to it or does it show itself to itself also? If later is the case there should not be any problem in our perceiving the UC in its full blown nature and the trapped segment can easily perceive itself as the part of the UC. That is found to be impossible as it is. Just a bit of loud thinking. Answers please.

Cheers.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom and Sri Prasad,

Thanks for the input. Now the question is what is this consciousness you are talking about. Does it illuminate and show to itself only those which are external to it or does it show itself to itself also? If later is the case there should not be any problem in our perceiving the UC in its full blown nature and the trapped segment can easily perceive itself as the part of the UC. That is found to be impossible as it is. Just a bit of loud thinking. Answers please.

Cheers.

Dear Shri Raju,

If I may give my view, I would say that the consciousness initially perceives only what is external to it but as it evolves it begins to perceive itself and with full evolution totally perceives itself.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom and Sri Prasad,

Thanks for the input. Now the question is what is this consciousness you are talking about. Does it illuminate and show to itself only those which are external to it or does it show itself to itself also? If later is the case there should not be any problem in our perceiving the UC in its full blown nature and the trapped segment can easily perceive itself as the part of the UC. That is found to be impossible as it is. Just a bit of loud thinking. Answers please.

Cheers.

Shri Raju,

According to my belief/s, this consciousness or Life Force is identical to the parabrahmam of advaita vedanta —nirguṇa (devoid of any identifying aspects), nirākāra (shapeless), nirāmaya(without any drawbacks or deficiencies). IT can only be identified through its manifestation as Life in some physical body or the other. When IT functions in a physical body in conjunction with that body itself, the mind and the intellect, IT enables the various organs of cognition to function as suitable to that type of body (human, particular animal, bird, reptile, and so on—sura nara khaga gobhogi gandharva daityaiḥ, as it goes!) and thus makes the recognition of the external world possible in a certain way.

IT cannot show itself to itself. But when some people do deep meditation and are able to momentarily cut off their sense organs completely from functioning, it looks as though a certain vacuum results and when these people regain their normalcy after a few seconds, they get a euphoric feeling which they take as Brahmaanandam. IMHO, this feeling is not, in anyway, different from the good feeling we have after a good and undisturbed sleep at night. Unfortunately our ṣaḍdarśanas and our Hindu thought systems have taken a different route. So, you are quite right in saying, "If later (sic) is the case there should not be any problem in our perceiving the UC in its full blown nature and the trapped segment can easily perceive itself as the part of the UC. That is found to be impossible as it is."

 

[suraju06]

Dear Sri sravna and Sri Sangom Sir,

Thank you for sharing your views. Let me think about it.

Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

The apparently trapped consciousness can be perceived, just as the universal consciousness can be perceived by sense organs.
It can be perceived only transcendentally.
Mr. Sangom and Mr. Sravna have given better explanation.
[video=youtube;9bEsoBEzuLM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9bEsoBEzuLM[/video]