Is it permissible for the Veda Pandits or Shastri to commercialise vedam and charge

[sathya_9]

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Of late Tamil Brahmins Purohits, have commercialised the holy business to such extent that the gulible poor, miidle class and even the higher middle class are just exploited by them on their sentimental value.

For example.

Vadyar Sambhavani are as unde for the following functions.


Amavasai tharpanam. Rs.100/- per member for just 5 minutes of

Navgraha Homam. Rs.8000/- for 3 hours.

Marriage performance. Rs.40,000 to Rs.50,000/- for 3 days.

The elite so called brahmin community though brood the exhorbitant charges, yet they have become a tradition bound slaves overcontrolled by emotions sentiments.

We need a revolution within ourselves. It is sin to be a part of looting.

I am sorry to note even the great matadhipadis just ignore this exploitation.

Sathyan.

 

[kunjuppu]

i think we have to consder a few factors which get lost when we intone the name of the vedas and assign sanctity to it.

- today's vathyar treats it as a profession. either we accept it or not. if we dont, we need not patronize them. but dont fault them.

- they need to earn a living. giving 5 rupees for an amavasai tharpanam, and 100 rupees for a sraddham simply wont make ends meet for him, let alone feed his family and educate his children

- on a comparative basis, abrahamic religions collect tithes (10% of the income) or supposed to anyway, and spend on their priests and edifices. that today this money may come from abroad still does not deny the fact that those priests and imams live better off than our vathiars

- compared to the pandas of the north our vathiars are pussy cats. maybe they break up a slokam in the middle to answer a cell phone call, but they do not put the fear of yama into the simple minds and milk them out of every paisa they hold

- there is also the issue of demand and supply; more vathiars needed than available, because the vathiar's son too wants to go to usa and make his money in dolla; the vathiar daughter works for infosys and gets assignments in u.k. and soon gets their euro passport

- today there is technology for self help - books, videos and youtube. go anywhere there for your vathiar needs and avoid paying even a paisa to the human vathiar. such is possible.

[video=youtube;p0DddJ71ywQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DddJ71ywQ[/video]

but i dont think it is fair or realistic to verbally or in writing to abuse the concept of today's vathiar and his expectations of sambavanai. if you can pay what the doctor wants for his consultation, what the engineering college wants as tuition/bribe for your child's education, i think, one shouldn't grudge the odd occassion when we seek the service of the vathiar.

if you don't like his rates, simply dont do those functions, as most of the recurring functions, barring tarpanam/sraddham are optional..

and personally, i dont see 'any great matadhipadis' around. aren't they all awaiting trial at some court or the other?

ok?

 

[palindrome]

Wud like to recount an incident.

Sometime back went to a guru sthalam. Typically priest asked for name, nakshatram, gothram. All names, nakshatrams were told. Then priest asked for gothram again. The moment he heard a non-brahmin gothra mentioned, he dropped the plastic bag containing archana offerings to the floor. He moved on to the next set. I stood aside to watch him. Apparently he performed archanais for brahmins only.

Cud help wondering at this priest. He serves the god of burial grounds (Shiva), and yet possessed arrogance which dakshinamurthi may shudder at. This was my first experience of casteism in a temple. Needless to say, i decided i won't visit that temple until that priest serves there.

Looks like some priests forgot, Shiva, Vishnu, Krishna, Durga, etc were not brahmins in the first place.

 

[kunjuppu]

Wud like to recount an incident.

Sometime back went to a guru sthalam. Typically priest asked for name, nakshatram, gothram. All names, nakshatrams were told. Then priest asked for gothram again. The moment he heard a non-brahmin gothra mentioned, he dropped the plastic bag containing archana offerings to the floor. He moved on to the next set. I stood aside to watch him. Apparently he performed archanais for brahmins only.

Cud help wondering at this priest. He serves the god of burial grounds (Shiva), and yet possessed arrogance which dakshinamurthi may shudder at. This was my first experience of casteism in a temple. Needless to say, i decided i won't visit that temple until that priest serves there.

Looks like some priests forgot, Shiva, Vishnu, Krishna, Durga, etc were not brahmins in the first place.

so sorry to hear this. idiot priest.

btw, did not know till now, that gothras differed according to caste.

 

[palindrome]

btw, did not know till now, that gothras differed according to caste.

yep they do

plus the tell tale signs are looked for....ie., do the accompanying males wear poonool, or 12 namams or pattais...

 

[kunjuppu]

yep they do

plus the tell tale signs are looked for....ie., do the accompanying males wear poonool, or 12 namams or pattais...

the temple that i go to, in toronto, has a majority of sri lankan tamils. we all answer the same questions, except mrs K has no clue about stars and gothrams.

the priests there are used to all types of answers i guess, because when we mention our loved names foreign sounding names, they never blink. i like that, because in front of God all of us are the same.

you dont need this priest, except if it happened in tamil nadu, once more, it reinforces the general concept of arrogant brahmin. oh well!!

the kids are gleefully unaware of caste. wonder what will happen if they meet such priests !!!

 

[prasad1]

Fool and his/her money will be parted by smart people.
No one said you have to use a Vadyar. If you are gullible, get educated or get fleeced. That is the reality of the world.
It is sad that someone quotes that vadyar is charging exorbitant price, whereas every profession in demand does it. The plumber who comes to the door, the doctor you go to see, the banker you think is your friend. They all do the same thing. If you think you need it, you have to pay for it. Like Mr. K said it is economics stupid.

 

[prasad1]

you dont need this priest, except if it happened in tamil nadu, once more, it reinforces the general concept of arrogant brahmin. oh well!!

I take exception to the sentence because there was absolutely no need to bring caste (even though all vadyars are brahmin by default). I have seen babas of all caste and religions fleece people. In Dargah's the Muslim mollas can scalp as much money as they want. I have seen it even happens in Gurudwaras.

We have a lady priest who has got elaborate charges for the private poojas she performs. Like you said it is profession, please treat it like one.

 

[kunjuppu]

I take exception to the sentence because there was absolutely no need to bring caste (even though all vadyars are brahmin by default). I have seen babas of all caste and religions fleece people. In Dargah's the Muslim mollas can scalp as much money as they want. I have seen it even happens in Gurudwaras.

We have a lady priest who has got elaborate charges for the private poojas she performs. Like you said it is profession, please treat it like one.

exception accepted.

i have read a few blogs from tamil NBs about this and palindrome's experience reminded me of this. agree that priests of all castes might be guilty, but dont you think it was rather extreme, that the priest should dump her plate, and move on? i certainly would not like to be treated like that.

reminds me of marx brothers (groucho i think it was), that he would refuse to join a club, that would accept him as a member.

mercifully, i have never seen such, in toronto. the priests, by and large, appear to satisfy various functions, some of which are alien to me, like 'coming of age' of girls and such. they are integrated and part of the community. incidentally, many priests come here, and then, open their own private temples, initially in a garage or godown, and slowly, with the growth of patronage, upgrade the facilities. amazing private enterprise.

 

[zebra16]

Fool and his/her money will be parted by smart people.
No one said you have to use a Vadyar. If you are gullible, get educated or get fleeced. That is the reality of the world.
It is sad that someone quotes that vadyar is charging exorbitant price, whereas every profession in demand does it. The plumber who comes to the door, the doctor you go to see, the banker you think is your friend. They all do the same thing. If you think you need it, you have to pay for it. Like Mr. K said it is economics stupid.

Although I agree with the original poster that there should not have been discrimination, her respect for the profession and the religious marks adorned by the faithful becomes evident when she refers to the vibhuti as "pattai"

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Zebra,

Some people join here in this site not for the upliftment of Brahmins, but to mock them at every possible post. I can understand that I may only be a 10% brahmin, but I have some camaraderie to others including Brahmins. We have great NB who contribute to the body knowledge, without bashing Brahmins in every post. I have no problem in accepting anybody as long as they are not smug about their knowledge (?). When the agenda is to malign a majority by a minority of one, it is irritating. I always say motives matter. If a Pakistani comes to India to explain how democracy works, you know his intentions. I would tell that person to Go back to Pakistan and do your preaching there.

But the British ruled India, because there were Indian Subservient to control the masses at the behest of these Englishmen. Similarly we have some Brahmin Subservient in this site.
Some people still want to impress those who hate and persecute them. Sad, but, true. There are masochist among us.

 

[renuka]

But so far in India when I go to any temple and the priest asks me my gotra before doing an Archana..I just answer "I don't have a Gotra" and he continues the Archana by saying Subha Gotra and does his duty.

Isn't that how it goes if No Gotra they just say Shuba Gotra??

 

[prasad1]

But so far in India when I go to any temple and the priest asks me my gotra before doing an Archana..I just answer "I don't have a Gotra" and he continues the Archana by saying Subha Gotra and does his duty.

Isn't that how it goes if No Gotra they just say Shuba Gotra??

Yes that is what I am used to. In Andhra the priest will invent a Gotra, say shiva Gotra, Nag gotra, Hari Gotra etc. It is money for them, why would he refuse to do archana.

 

[kunjuppu]

renus, prasad,

in the altar of God, i feel, that we dont have to go through shenanigans, known unknown innocent or otherwise, to get the dues from the vathyar.

by default, we are devotees, and he is the arbiter of the faith, an intermediary, who carries our fears prayers wishes vendukOls and above all the strength of our belief, before the idol, which/whom we personify as our Ultimate.

it is his duty God Bound, to express our wishes and desires, and in the process, give us a sense of satisfaction, that our emotions have been transmitted with the right code and feeling, to the devas and beyond.

the priest has a dual duty, to convey the message to the Lord, and convey to us as the believer, that the message has been passed on with all the fervour and intensity, that we have in our heart.

if he fails on either one of these accounts, he has failed in his job. so he does not deserve not only the dakshinai that we may drop on his plate, but he carries with him the crimes associated with unfulfillment of a client, who has paid for his services.

by default, in tamil nadu major temples if he is a brahmin, by right inheritance or traing, i dont see anything wrong, in calling him an arrogant personification of his caste. i will tell this to his face, for not only he defaulted his calling, but by virtue of birthright/legacy, he committed a bigger crime in the name of his caste, whose ultimate victims of his default, may be innocent poor and indigent tambrams.

even a bigger damage to the hindu heritage, as a resultant of his wilful negligance, are those, who are turned off to such an extent, as to consider the hindu temple as an exclusive but despicable possessorship of a particular caste, and stop visiting/patronizing it from then on. a loss to the faith and heritage, propagated from a single person to the next generation, is indeed, an unmeasurable loss, especially in the light of aggressive proselytization from outside the borders of mother india.

therefore, that the temple priest has no sense of responsibility to his community, i think, is a bigger transgression, and which, i think, thoughtful and intelligent members of this august forum, might nod their heads in assent. for those who demur, i have nothing more to say. politely ofcourse

God Bless you dear renus & your loved ones. and you too prasad

 

[palindrome]

Yes that is what I am used to. In Andhra the priest will invent a Gotra, say shiva Gotra, Nag gotra, Hari Gotra etc. It is money for them, why would he refuse to do archana.

That's the diff between tamil brahmins and telugu brahmins. No one i know of has ever faced any prob from telugu brahmins. They try to cultivate instead of doling out prejudice. In a wedding years ago, one telugu priest explained how each gotra was a branch of a larger group which he called pravara (that was way back in 1990s when i knew nothing about all this).

There was another prob which left us blinking. If a man wore neither namam nor pattai, the tamil priest wanted to know if you are a "namakarar" or a "pattaikarar" -- dad simply cud not understand what he meant by that until mom intervened (she replied 'namakarar', maybe that added to the shaiva priest's dislike of us). The priest's job is to simply do the archana and move on, why does he need to know if the client is a namakarar or a pattaikarar.

 

[palindrome]

I take exception to the sentence because there was absolutely no need to bring caste (even though all vadyars are brahmin by default). I have seen babas of all caste and religions fleece people. In Dargah's the Muslim mollas can scalp as much money as they want. I have seen it even happens in Gurudwaras.

We have a lady priest who has got elaborate charges for the private poojas she performs. Like you said it is profession, please treat it like one.

exception accepted.

i have read a few blogs from tamil NBs about this and palindrome's experience reminded me of this. agree that priests of all castes might be guilty, but dont you think it was rather extreme, that the priest should dump her plate, and move on? i certainly would not like to be treated like that.

reminds me of marx brothers (groucho i think it was), that he would refuse to join a club, that would accept him as a member.

mercifully, i have never seen such, in toronto. the priests, by and large, appear to satisfy various functions, some of which are alien to me, like 'coming of age' of girls and such. they are integrated and part of the community. incidentally, many priests come here, and then, open their own private temples, initially in a garage or godown, and slowly, with the growth of patronage, upgrade the facilities. amazing private enterprise.

in this case it was not about fleecing money

it was about casteist prejudice

big difference between both

 

[palindrome]

Let me give another example.

Recently my mother was asked to visit a parihara sthalam to worship Shashta (Murugan). The abhishekam ticket costs Rs.251. However, we made the mistake of telling the priest we want to get it done as a pariharam. The priest wanted to know for what and why. It did not take long for Rs.251 to become Rs.42,000. Priest said by giving Rs.10000 to 4 priests mom cud ensure of a very good abhishekam. Needless to say, mom never got it done. Here it was a case was fleecing, not casteism.

 

[kunjuppu]

Mr. Zebra,

Some people join here in this site not for the upliftment of Brahmins, but to mock them at every possible post. I can understand that I may only be a 10% brahmin, but I have some camaraderie to others including Brahmins. We have great NB who contribute to the body knowledge, without bashing Brahmins in every post. I have no problem in accepting anybody as long as they are not smug about their knowledge (?). When the agenda is to malign a majority by a minority of one, it is irritating. I always say motives matter. If a Pakistani comes to India to explain how democracy works, you know his intentions. I would tell that person to Go back to Pakistan and do your preaching there.

But the British ruled India, because there were Indian Subservient to control the masses at the behest of these Englishmen. Similarly we have some Brahmin Subservient in this site.
Some people still want to impress those who hate and persecute them. Sad, but, true. There are masochist among us.

dear prasad,

i have to conclude that you are being very selective here.

you yourself, like me, have been critical of tambrams. when you criticize, i think, you feel, it is constructive

whereas, some others, it is an exercise, in the destruction of the community. atleast that is the way, you come out, after reading most of your posts.

i tend to agree with you, when you censure, but would wish, that you open up your heart, and give equal absolvency, to those, whose views, border to those of yours, and whose heart, pounds the same beat.

 

[renuka]

renus, prasad,

in the altar of God, i feel, that we dont have to go through shenanigans, known unknown innocent or otherwise, to get the dues from the vathyar.

by default, we are devotees, and he is the arbiter of the faith, an intermediary, who carries our fears prayers wishes vendukOls and above all the strength of our belief, before the idol, which/whom we personify as our Ultimate.

it is his duty God Bound, to express our wishes and desires, and in the process, give us a sense of satisfaction, that our emotions have been transmitted with the right code and feeling, to the devas and beyond.

the priest has a dual duty, to convey the message to the Lord, and convey to us as the believer, that the message has been passed on with all the fervour and intensity, that we have in our heart.

if he fails on either one of these accounts, he has failed in his job. so he does not deserve not only the dakshinai that we may drop on his plate, but he carries with him the crimes associated with unfulfillment of a client, who has paid for his services.

by default, in tamil nadu major temples if he is a brahmin, by right inheritance or traing, i dont see anything wrong, in calling him an arrogant personification of his caste. i will tell this to his face, for not only he defaulted his calling, but by virtue of birthright/legacy, he committed a bigger crime in the name of his caste, whose ultimate victims of his default, may be innocent poor and indigent tambrams.

even a bigger damage to the hindu heritage, as a resultant of his wilful negligance, are those, who are turned off to such an extent, as to consider the hindu temple as an exclusive but despicable possessorship of a particular caste, and stop visiting/patronizing it from then on. a loss to the faith and heritage, propagated from a single person to the next generation, is indeed, an unmeasurable loss, especially in the light of aggressive proselytization from outside the borders of mother india.

therefore, that the temple priest has no sense of responsibility to his community, i think, is a bigger transgression, and which, i think, thoughtful and intelligent members of this august forum, might nod their heads in assent. for those who demur, i have nothing more to say. politely ofcourse

God Bless you dear renus & your loved ones. and you too prasad

Dear Kunjs,

In my life so far I have not yet met a priest who had refused to do an Archana owing to the fact I am a Non Brahmin.

May be the priest Palindrome met was an exception.

Most priests quietly do their job in the temples and in India the smaller temples by the side of the road do not even ask Gotra or Naskhatram.

In India time the temple opposite the hotel I stayed... is a small cute shrine beside the road and it is run by 2 Brahmin priests.

Before it used to be take Arti first..then he gives the teertha/milk etc and flowers and then we put the Dakshina.

This time it was take Arti first..then we have to put the Dakshina and only then he proceeds to give you the teertha/milk etc.

Cos at one time I was still standing there wondering why the priest was not moving away from me to give me the teertha etc..then I realized he was waiting for Dakshina and I placed money on the arti tray and then he gave flowers, fruits etc.

So for a priest the Dakshina is his livelihood..may be the priest Palindrome met must be either arrogant or has lots of money.

 

[palindrome]

Although I agree with the original poster that there should not have been discrimination, her respect for the profession and the religious marks adorned by the faithful becomes evident when she refers to the vibhuti as "pattai"

See post # 15 above. We do not use words like "pattai". Its a tamil word (we are telugu speaking). That's the term the tamil preist himself used (which my dad did not understand). Mom later explained namakarar means vaishnava and pattaikarar means shaiva.

 

[palindrome]

Dear Kunjs,

In my life so far I have not yet met a priest who had refused to do an Archana owing to the fact I am a Non Brahmin.

May be the priest Palindrome met was an exception.

Most priests quietly do their job in the temples and in India the smaller temples by the side of the road do not even ask Gotra or Naskhatram.

In India time the temple opposite the hotel I stayed... is a small cute shrine beside the road and it is run by 2 Brahmin priests.

Before it used to be take Arti first..then he gives the teertha/milk etc and flowers and then we put the Dakshina.

This time it was take Arti first..then we have to put the Dakshina and only then he proceeds to give you the teertha/milk etc.

Cos at one time I was still standing there wondering why the priest was not moving away from me to give me the teertha etc..then I realized he was waiting for Dakshina and I placed money on the arti tray and then he gave flowers, fruits etc.

So for a priest the Dakshina is his livelihood..may be the priest Palindrome met must be either arrogant or has lots of money.

Renu,

Last year my experiences were different (all positive ones). This year it is different. Must say one thing though, cost of living in india has exponentially increased. If a priest fleeces money, i won;t be surprised. They have a family to take care of too. But the presence of casteist prejudice in a temple precinct is a new experience for me. Hope that priest is the only one (of that kind) i will ever meet.

 

[auh]

i think we have to consder a few factors which get lost when we intone the name of the vedas and assign sanctity to it.

- today's vathyar treats it as a profession. either we accept it or not. if we dont, we need not patronize them. but dont fault them.

- they need to earn a living. giving 5 rupees for an amavasai tharpanam, and 100 rupees for a sraddham simply wont make ends meet for him, let alone feed his family and educate his children

- on a comparative basis, abrahamic religions collect tithes (10% of the income) or supposed to anyway, and spend on their priests and edifices. that today this money may come from abroad still does not deny the fact that those priests and imams live better off than our vathiars

- compared to the pandas of the north our vathiars are pussy cats. maybe they break up a slokam in the middle to answer a cell phone call, but they do not put the fear of yama into the simple minds and milk them out of every paisa they hold

- there is also the issue of demand and supply; more vathiars needed than available, because the vathiar's son too wants to go to usa and make his money in dolla; the vathiar daughter works for infosys and gets assignments in u.k. and soon gets their euro passport

- today there is technology for self help - books, videos and youtube. go anywhere there for your vathiar needs and avoid paying even a paisa to the human vathiar. such is possible.

[video=youtube;p0DddJ71ywQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DddJ71ywQ[/video]

but i dont think it is fair or realistic to verbally or in writing to abuse the concept of today's vathiar and his expectations of sambavanai. if you can pay what the doctor wants for his consultation, what the engineering college wants as tuition/bribe for your child's education, i think, one shouldn't grudge the odd occassion when we seek the service of the vathiar.

if you don't like his rates, simply dont do those functions, as most of the recurring functions, barring tarpanam/sraddham are optional..

The above is a great reply, while the below:

and personally, i dont see 'any great matadhipadis' around. aren't they all awaiting trial at some court or the other?

ok?

is mischief !

 

[prasad1]

in this case it was not about fleecing money

it was about casteist prejudice

big difference between both

Sorry,It is not about you.

The op was about getting fleeced, please read the thread.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Kunjs,

In my life so far I have not yet met a priest who had refused to do an Archana owing to the fact I am a Non Brahmin.

May be the priest Palindrome met was an exception.

Most priests quietly do their job in the temples and in India the smaller temples by the side of the road do not even ask Gotra or Naskhatram.

In India time the temple opposite the hotel I stayed... is a small cute shrine beside the road and it is run by 2 Brahmin priests.

Before it used to be take Arti first..then he gives the teertha/milk etc and flowers and then we put the Dakshina.

This time it was take Arti first..then we have to put the Dakshina and only then he proceeds to give you the teertha/milk etc.

Cos at one time I was still standing there wondering why the priest was not moving away from me to give me the teertha etc..then I realized he was waiting for Dakshina and I placed money on the arti tray and then he gave flowers, fruits etc.

So for a priest the Dakshina is his livelihood..may be the priest Palindrome met must be either arrogant or has lots of money.

Or it is a figment of imagination to emphasis a point (Sharp one at that).

 

[prasad1]

dear prasad,

i have to conclude that you are being very selective here.

you yourself, like me, have been critical of tambrams. when you criticize, i think, you feel, it is constructive

whereas, some others, it is an exercise, in the destruction of the community. atleast that is the way, you come out, after reading most of your posts.

i tend to agree with you, when you censure, but would wish, that you open up your heart, and give equal absolvency, to those, whose views, border to those of yours, and whose heart, pounds the same beat.

Mr. K,
I do not blame the present day Brahmin community for the misdeeds(alleged) of the past. More over like you said I am still 10% brahmin, or like Sangomji said the Indian constitution defines me as brahmin. A brahmin may be able to get away with criticism of a brahmin practice, as it is constructive. A criticism by a known distractor on the other hand is purely out of spite. MOTIVES MATTER.

Let me give you an example:
An afro-american can make negro jokes, but if a white got on stage to say one n-word he is outcaste. Same rule applies in lot of other cases.