Iyer-Iyengar marriage ceremonies

[mrifan]

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I am just curious, are there any significant differences between Iyer and Iyengar wedding ceremonies? I know Iyer marriage ceremonies can last upto 3 days if all traditions are followed. In case an Iyer man marries an Iyengar woman, which side's priests will officiate at the ceremony, and which side gets to pick the auspicious date? Many thanks for a prompt response!

 

[NARAS]

sirs - iyers follow saiva tradition. for them Lord shiva is the god. iyengars follow vaishnava tradition, and for them Lord vishnu is only god. in case of marriages between iyers and iyengars rituals are and should always performed as per husband's caste.

 

[hariharan1972]

A bit from my side

I am just curious, are there any significant differences between Iyer and Iyengar wedding ceremonies? I know Iyer marriage ceremonies can last upto 3 days if all traditions are followed. In case an Iyer man marries an Iyengar woman, which side's priests will officiate at the ceremony, and which side gets to pick the auspicious date? Many thanks for a prompt response!

Mrifan,

I am certainly not an authority on these matters but purely from observations i can state some differences

a) Firstly in an iyengar marriage the term "yenda ambi" will be heard resonating through all the days

b) During bandhi, saadam podamatta, but sadatha "kuthuva", there will be no rasam but "shathumadhu", there will be no poriyal but "karamadhu"

c) Even serving wise, iyengars start with salt which i think iyers dont

d) On the ritual side, in an iyengar marriage the bride sits on the lap of the father (wonder what would have happened had bindugosh been an iyengar !!!) while the groom ties the thali

e) Some of my best friends are iyengars.....and anti-australians while i am a die-hard australian....so it gave me immense pleasure to see them turn into aussies -yellow veshti i.e white dhoti smeared fully with turmeric- during the marriage rituals

f) And lastly, most of the iyengar marriages i have been to, i have seen the largest assembly of vathyars....infact at one of my iyengar friends marriage, the mandapam had barely enough space for him & his would-be wife to sit....there were about 11 vathyars making him turn, twist, bend, jump (now that's exaggeration !).....the main vathyar had such long hair that instantenously we named him M S Dhoni for "Main Sastrigal" Dhoni !!!!!

Enlightening isn't it !!!!!

Now well informed forum members can come up with more realistic differences and to all iyengar members of the forum - kshetha yenna shamichidungo !

 

[Kothai]

I am a married Iyer woman so I know how an Iyer marriage goes.
If all the rituals and customs are properly followed an Iyer marriage will be for 5 days.
But for comparing them, one should know both the things. As far as I know,
an Iyengar bride sits on the lap of her father who sits on the stage, and Iyer bride also sits on the father's lap but father sits on a chair which is covered with a Silk Veshti.
And whenever the bride or groom or both do Namaskaram, Iyers do it once, while Iyengars do it 3 times.
"During bandhi, saadam podamatta, but sadatha "kuthuva", there will be no rasam but "shathumadhu", there will be no poriyal but "karamadhu""

The "kuththuva" term is associated with any liquid food item. Iyers start serving with Payasam. Usually they don't serve salt.
The serving person in Iyer side will ask "innum konjam rasam podattuma or innum konjam venuma". But in Iyengar side, it goes like "innum konjam saathamudhu kettukkarela.."
For "saappadu" or "saadham" they will say "thaligai".
Even the method of wearing the Madisaar pudavai is also different. The thalaippu of the pudavai is put in the right side in Iyers but in left side in Iyengars.
This is what I've observed. But one thing I can say confidently. The "Puliyodharai" prepared by Iyengars is very,very tasty.
I am eager to know the basic differences from experts

 

[mrifan]

Wedding related Event management company in Bangalore

Does anyone know of any "event management" companies specializing in Brahmana marriages in Bangalore? Some outfit which can arrange the Chattiram, Brahmana vaadyars (Iyer & Iyengar), and appropriate materials and supplies for a Brahmana wedding, ending with a reception etc. This would include sending out invitations, providing transport, and other small things that would mean that the families just need to show up and everything else is taken care of. Any reliable contacts in this regard would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Bhooma]

Just read through all the posts on the Iyer- Iyengar marriage .. Tho an Iyengar by birth and married into an Iyengar family, I dont claim to be an authority. But would just like to add my two bit ..

Hari .. "yenda ambi" is heard almost in all the brahmin households.. the eldest son in the family is invariably called Ambi... so I dont know why you single out Iyengars (weddings) for that !!

Also wonder how many Iyers/Iyengars use the word "proiyal" even during normal conversation ?

also Kothai .. its always "Saadikattuma" for serving.... and "thaligai" is for "samayal".... not saadham alone ..

and also Iyers start the pandhi first by serving vegetables ( so also Thengalai Iyengars) but vadagalai iyengars serve the rice first .

any other major differences ... i need to ask the elders in the family and will definitely get back

Bhooma

ps: wonder why our good friend SF hasnt contributed his two bit ? I need some support SF!!!!

 

[prpsarathy]

my understanding :

Marriage rituals are as per veda's where agni is taken as sakshi. Seven step taken togather is more important than the others. I am an iyengar who learned my sandhyavandhanam from iyer guru. A nice sage. The only difference used to naryana prithyartham or shiva prithyartham. so the invokation load would be Ganesha & shiva in case of iyers and sudharshana and vishnu in case of iyengars.

However, i feel enough difference exist and people must try too look at brahmins as a whole. At a very pheripheral shaivates and vishavates are looked as shiva and vishnu bhakta but philosphically they advita and visisadvita.

At the same time if u look at sankhya [ vishnu avatar ] it talks about god less ness.

Pls comment

 

[hariharan1972]

Said in jest

Hari .. "yenda ambi" is heard almost in all the brahmin households.. the eldest son in the family is invariably called Ambi... so I dont know why you single out Iyengars (weddings) for that !!

Bhooma,

I was just writing in jest.

I am not an iyengar. So, most of my "observations" are limited to what i saw/heard in the iyengar weddings i attended.

I thought "badava / abishtu" was more used by Iyers. Anyways, Ambi or Abishtu, i stand corrected.

 

[silverfox]

<<d) On the ritual side, in an iyengar marriage the bride sits on the lap of the father (wonder what would have happened had bindugosh been an iyengar !!!) while the groom ties the thali>>

Hari, you are wrong!! I checked with some Iyer experts and they do exactly the same - bride sitting on the father's lap. As a matter of fact, I attended a Iyer wedding in Chennai a few months ago and they did the same thing!

Now, I hope this discussion is a fun way of describing the differences but at the same time admire and celebrate the diversity (small) within our Brahmin community.

Kothai, it is "sattramudu"; NOT "shatamudu". Iyengars use Tamil terminology. "Sattru" + "Amudhu" = "Sattramudu. "Thiru" + "Kannan" + "Amudhu" = "Thirukkannamudhu"
"Kari" + "Amudhu = 'kariyamudu'.
Iyengars use "amudhu" as a sufffix to several food items. I think this is based on the Vaishnava bhakti based on pure Love and devotion in that everything is offered to the Lord in a loving way.

In my family, I have several of my nephews and nieces married Iyengar-Iyer-Iyengar!!
In attending weddings, I did not see any significant difference at all except for the 'madisar' of ladies!!
Let us celebrate our differences!!

 

[silverfox]

Kothai:
I have my comments in red. By the way, I am not an authority by any extent. These are based on my observations and by asking the 'experts'!!

I am a married Iyer woman so I know how an Iyer marriage goes.
If all the rituals and customs are properly followed an Iyer marriage will be for 5 days.
Iyengars have same 4-5 days! I should say 'had'; who has got the time these days!
I was very surprised to find (when I was in Chennai) that they conduct the 'Reception' before actual wedding!!!!

But for comparing them, one should know both the things. As far as I know,
an Iyengar bride sits on the lap of her father who sits on the stage, and Iyer bride also sits on the father's lap but father sits on a chair which is covered with a Silk Veshti.
This is exactly the same in Iyengar weddings; except it is on the stage where the wedding is conducted (but this was same in Iyer wedding also).

And whenever the bride or groom or both do Namaskaram, Iyers do it once, while Iyengars do it 3 times.
Wrong! Iyengars always do it either 2 times or 4 times; never in odd number. Also, Iyengars say 'sevikkirathu', not 'Namaskaram'.

"During bandhi, saadam podamatta, but sadatha "kuthuva", there will be no rasam but "shathumadhu", there will be no poriyal but "karamadhu""
See Bhooma's comments

The "kuththuva" term is associated with any liquid food item. Iyers start serving with Payasam. Usually they don't serve salt.
Iyengars start by serving sadham ordinarily. But in functions and feasts, they start with sugar, banana first followed by paruppu; then saadam.

The serving person in Iyer side will ask "innum konjam rasam podattuma or innum konjam venuma". But in Iyengar side, it goes like "innum konjam saathamudhu kettukkarela.."
For "saappadu" or "saadham" they will say "thaligai".
Even the method of wearing the Madisaar pudavai is also different. The thalaippu of the pudavai is put in the right side in Iyers but in left side in Iyengars.
This is what I've observed. But one thing I can say confidently. The "Puliyodharai" prepared by Iyengars is very,very tasty.
I completely agree; nothing like Iyengar "puliyodharai"!! ; please also add Iyengar "Sarkarai Pongal"!

I am eager to know the basic differences from experts

 

[Kamakshi]

Dear pspsarathy,

As far as I know Iyers also say Narayana Preethyartham and not Siva Preethyartham.

 

[silverfox]

Kamakshi:
1. Yes, you are right; even Iyers also say "Narayana Preethyartham".
2. Sonia Gandhi did renounce her Italian citizenship.
I think Sonia has got every right to contest and to become a PM because she IS an Indian citizen. The argument I make against her is that while she is an avowed christian, she goes around masquerading as a Hindu woman by putting kumkum on her forehead and thus fooling millions of people (especially in the North; they all are peasants and easily duped).

Naras:
In the US, only the President and Vice President have to be US-born or born anywhere but to US parents. Kissinger was Secretary of State (he was foreign-born) but he was only 4th in succession.

 

[Kamakshi]

Silverfox, we have 'peasants' even among 'educated' people. Actually 'education' doesn't mean a daarn thing. A 'peasant' is a 'peasant' whether he/she is pad or unpad! It is, to use a hindu jargan, a 'guna dhosham'.

 

[silverfox]

I am not for Sonia Gandhi!

Kamakshi:
I was so mad at those north indian folks who continuously vote in large numbers for Sonia, I used the term 'peasant' as a metaphor! Please note that while I said that she has every right as any other Indian citizen to become a PM, I didn't say that she has the qualifications. But then, when did it stop any politician in India attaining high level jobs without any education/ qualification/experience?
I have a general question: How is it that the Communist party in India is supported by people; they are not patriotic; the whole world abandoned Commun ism (exception: Cuba) including China (they are pragmatic Communists!) while the Indian Communists are still clinging on to idiotic idealisms!!
Anyway, this thread is not for discussing Sonia. As a matter of fact, I started a thread quite some time ago on her!!

 

[Kamakshi]

Thank you Siverfox. Re: Iyer-Iyengar marriage first of all I am opposed to any division among the Brahmins such as Iyer, Iyengar, Rao, Vadama, Vaathima etc. etc. Every youngster should revolt against such unwanted divisions. I know you are an Iyengar and I am wishing that you could agree with me. Believe me I am actually quite a traditionalist and I am for celeberating all the traditions. But I do not believe that the tradions can be celeberated only by perpetuating the divisions.

Should people carry it further and promote inter-caste marriage? That is where my limitation rises to put a huge wall. I think that is a safety wall. It is, as I said, the Guna Visesham that we as Brahmins are set apart from others and such viseshams are not to be graded as superior or inferior. It is the modern secularist mindset that would say that if something is neither superior nor inferior then it cannot be set apart from any other. Unfortunately those who say such things do not understand Hinduism. Belive me I AM a Brahmin (meaning my existence IS) not without reason and neither my being a Brahmin is an accident. (Actually Hindus do not believe in accidents. Incidently I worked for an insurance company where the company dinned into our head that all accidents are caused!).

Now on to Sonia. It is true that our constitution treats all citizens as equal and on that merit an argument is made that Sonia could be the P.M. It is to the credit of Dr. Subramanian Swamy to have impressed on Dr. Kalam that as an immigrant citizen such as Sonia of Italian origin could get only those rights that are available to India born Italian Citizens in Italy. I.E. Italy does not let an Italian Citizen of Indian origin to be its Prime Minister and so reciprocally Sonia cannot claim a right to be Indian Prime Minister. When Sonia went to Dr. Kalam staking her claim to become the Indian Prime Minister Dr. Kalam told her not to insist on her claim and if she does then he would have to get approval from the Supreme Court before appointing her. Sonia realized that the principle of reciprocity would kick her out from the job permanently. That is why she withdrew claiming inner voice as if she refused the job that was offered on a silver platter. Hope people understand why she is so much opposed to the re-election of a great person like Dr. Kalam with impeccable credentials and is nominating a criminal and corrupt Pratibha who would invite her to be the next P.M. And Pratibha would challenge the Supreme Court of undue interference in the presidential prerogative and would tell them that she would not recognize their opinion. That would make the alien whose loyalty credential are questionable and whose qualifications are below that of most auto drivers as the highest office holder in India. Should India sleep walk into this dreaded situation?

 

[silverfox]

Iyer-Iyengar, Sonia, et al

Hi Kamakshi:
I absolutely and completely agree with you. In fact, if you go back to some of the previous threads, I always have been advocating no division amongst us. I have told this forum that in my family we are a mix of Iyer-Iyengars; several of my nephews and nieces are married vice versa.

Now, back to Sonia! I did not know that there is this reciprocity of citizenship to hold high offices. I wonder if the Indian Constitution mentions this! What you have written about the current political scenes of election of President makes sense. God helps India!

 

[prpsarathy]

Dear pspsarathy,

As far as I know Iyers also say Narayana Preethyartham and not Siva Preethyartham.

Might be some practice the other way. however pls do revert on the philosophical part of my comment

 

[Kamakshi]

Dear Sri pspsarathy,

Whatever Advaitam or Visishtaadvaitam stand for is a personal matter for each Brahmin to consider. He need not divide his Brahmin community on that basis. Do we not see in families some are more pious while others are less and even one or two are downright athiests? Do we divide the family because of this?

Regards,

 

[krishvoice]

very interesting to learn that. I would agree with the other members, why focus on the differences? I am an iyer who was in love with an iyengar girl and her father refused (well during my post college days) I tend to look at what is common rather than what is different.

Cheers!

Sincerely

Krish

 

[silverfox]

Dear Krish:

<<<<<I am an iyer who was in love with an iyengar girl and her father refused (well during my post college days)>>>>>

Well, it was the loss of that Iyengar gentleman!! More importantly, was the girl also in love with you?!!!

I was, too, lovestruck with an Iyer girl when I was young!! But the love was one-sided!!!She belonged to a rich family and didn't even know I existed!!!

 

[murali]

There seems to be a general confusion(particularly in the mind of naras) that iyers are saivas.This is completely baseless.

Many iyers wear vibhuthi on their foreheads,but a substantial number wear gopichandanam and a minority wear namam.This namam wearing minority is slowly dying,because of migration to towns and identity problems.

Many iyers are ardent devotees of Lord Vishnu,have the highest reverence for the avataras of Vishnu,Valmiki Ramayana,Srimad Bhagavatha,Vishnu Sahasranama,Nama Sankeerthanam.

But we also believe in the unity of Godhead,the karma,Bhakthi and Jnana Marga.

Sri Ramakrishna Parahamsa,,Sri Abhinava Vidyatheertha Mahasvaminah,Sri Sadhashiva Brahmendra,Sri Jnanadeva(in Maharashtra)are exemplars of "Advaitic" Bhakthi.Bhakthi is always spontaneous love of God.

Sri Ramana has remarked Bhakti is the mother of Jnana.

Generally iyers in their sankalpam say "sri parameshwara prityartham".Iyers use Iswara to denote God.Parameshwara has by usage become associated with Lord Shiva.It is a nama found in the Vishnu Sahasranama.In the Advaitic tradition Vishnu is the name of Brahman as all pervading. God is beyond all names.Vishnu,Iswara signify his majesty,gunas and omnipotence/omniscience.In Advaitic theology Narayana/Iswara are same.

At the time of completion of karma,iyers say "Kaayena vacha.... Naarayeneti samarpayami" .

This is what i have gleaned from the teachings of great saints of the Advaita tradition.

 

[hariharan1972]

Wrong thread

I was, too, lovestruck with an Iyer girl when I was young!! But the love was one-sided!!!She belonged to a rich family and didn't even know I existed!!!

Wrong thread SF,

You should write more about this in "Walking down the memory lane" thread.

I am sure you would have done few things to get her attention, please write about it.

We are all ears.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Murali Ji,

I thank you for your erudite posting. Shaivism is different from the 'Advaitha' philosophy as you correctly point out. The main point about all these 'Sambradhayams' is this. We all believe in the sanctity of Vedas. This is how Hinduism should be defined. Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhvacarya (and some say including the Buddha, Lord Mahavir and Guru Nanak) are but very representations of divinity allowed within the large unbrella of Hinduism.

I did not include the Abrahamic religions, the myriad western schools of philosophical thoughts, the atheism represented in recent times by communism as well as fascism, here under the huge umbrella, mainly because such thoughts took root in foreign lands and we Indians rejected those various philosophies at one time or other or represented them in our outlook (e.g.' Bhakthi and love as exemplified by Jesus).

Whether monistic, monotheistic or dualistic, our religion creates unique ways to folks with different thinking abilities and preferences as it guides us towards the four grand paths (nay the broad avenues) to ultimate Bliss.

Pranams,
KRS

There seems to be a general confusion(particularly in the mind of naras) that iyers are saivas.This is completely baseless.

 

[snrajan]

Very interesting topic about Iyers and Iyengars wedding etc. Thax. Keep on coming out more of it.

 

[GGR]

Hello,
I am an Iyengar married to an Iyer and having been married in the traditional way, I can tell you this. Most of the pre-concived notions that some folks have about Iyers or Iyengar is as good as a cart load of crap.

What is this "yenda ambi"? I have not heard anyone in my community talk like that. But it does not mean that some Iyengars or Iyers would speak that way. By the way people, there are 17 - 18 dialects of Tamil (13 or 15 in India), so depending on which region you are in, you will hear different words that you might not hear in Madras or elsewhere.

Why for that matter, I could not understand much of Iyer's tamil that my wife's relatives spoke. That is because they were palaghat iyers. So, if I were to generalise, I should be saying, Iyers didnt talk Tamil, but more malayalam like Tamil.

And what is this about 11 vadhiyaars? People, different vadhiyaars do things different ways and depending upon the money they get, they do things differently (within reason). Also what is this about the girl following the boy's way? That must be some bigotted family who forced the iyer girl to follow iyengar tradition. In my marriage, my wife's pre-marriage ceremony went Iyer way (both the 1st day and part of 2nd day) and I did stuff Iyengar way, but once it came down to the actual marriage, since both of us were Yajur-veda based and not different vedas, our marriage ceremony was the same, as the slokas are the same.

People, if you are getting your ideas and notions from TV, please grow couple of brain cells or talk to people before judging or concluding on a class of people.

Also, I agree with Kamaksi and Silver Fox, what is the big idea about differentiating brahmins within their community? It is like sperating peices of potato in your sambar based on which potato it came from.