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Late Shri Balasaheb Thackeray

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venkat2206

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Yeserday Shri Balsaheb Thackeray passed away at his residence in Mumbai at the age of 86. With this, an important era of a persoon who has supported Hinduism whole heartedly has come to an end.

There may be crores of people who admired him for his courage and at the same time crores of people who hated him for his conduct.

I am in the first catagory- inspite of a South Indian who has come to Mumbai in search of job at the age of 20 as a fresh commerce graduate from Annamalai University. Yes - during the initial stages, Late Thackeray's political party targetted South Indians - as the outfit thought the job oppourtunities in Mumbai were not available to Maharashtrians due to competition from South Indians. Personally I never faced any such hatredness.

He got the vision to change the idealogy of the party subsequently and today South Indians vote more for Shiv Sena as compared to local Maharashtrians.

Post 1993 there was a complete shift in his vision - a shift towards Hinduism and in severe words he always condemned the attack on India by extremists from other community.

Despite of many controversies, the man had an ultimate say in development of Mumbai. Through this forum I would like to express my condolences to his family members.


Venkat K
 
Mr Thackeray is a fearless Hindu icon to the Maharashtrians....For those who belittled Hinduism he was a real Sher...He spoke his mind without caring for the consequences...Hindusim has lost one of its ardent devotees...The high and mightly had to bow before his durbar...He was a true Hindu nationalist...

He has helped many a person in dire need...He has rendered monetary help to those requiring treatment for medical emergencies
 
This post too has become a little lengthy. Those who have patience may read it and people with poor attention span, please skip and move.

When the chorus is singing in praise some one has to make the counter point so that the balance is restored. I have lived in Mumbai in the 1960s when anti south indian feelings were stoked by Bal Takre and his lieutenants. Bal Takre had just started Shiv Sena (SS)and was working hard to find a toe hold in Maharashtra politics. Bal Takre had his humble beginning as a cartoonist with Free Press Journal(FPJ), an English Daily in Bombay. R.K. Laxman, the legendary cartoonist was also working with FPJ at that time. Though Takre and Laxman were very talented cartoonists, Laxman was a tad better. This led to professional rivalry between the two. There was a preponderance of south indians in the employees/editorial board list of FPJ. Takre had a grudge that his legitimate claims were ignored by FPJ because Laxman being a south Indian was always preferred and this lead to his getting the basic grudge and grievance against SIs which he used as the platform to catch the imagination of poor Maharashtran labour in the large metropolis called Mumbai. A personal grudge and the wrong perception borne out of that was the kernal from which grew the political party called SS. This is remarkably similar to EVR’s founding a political party in Tamil Nadu because of his differences with other leaders in Indian National Congress who were Brahmins. EVR too thought he can rally people by relating to the generally perceived hostility towards the leadership role played by Brahmins in the society of that time. While EVR and his deputies said in his later days that they had nothing against Brahmins but they had every thing against “brahminism” ( they never cared to define this “brahminism” because brahminism was practised more by middle castes towards lower castes than by Brahmins themselves). From anti-south-indianism to anti Bihariism Takre had travelled a long distance and in the journey had enjoyed political power. While EVR never gave up his anti Brahmin posture Takre also never gave up his anti SI posture. If anything he had only stopped talking about it for some time.

I remember vividly the face of a stranger (not a south Indian) who was shot dead by police near the railway line in Dadar Rly. Station during the peak of arson in Mumbai during the anti-madrasi stir of 1960s. I have never run that fast in my life time like I ran that day, inadvertently caught in the midst of a riot.

Takre and EVR are politicians who belong to the same category. They will do anything to gain control of masses. The easy and best way to achieve their goal was to sell the opium of hatred liberally to the masses who could relate to it easily. Takre and EVR both became some what mellowed in the later part of their life because they had finally wielded political power which they wanted. It is an irony that Takre was a Chitpavan Brahmin and EVR was a Naicker who was anti Brahmin.

We have people among the general public-I am speaking here about the well read, well informed, mature people leaving aside the blind and passionate hordes of followers of these “leaders” who never think at all. We find even among members here those who try to dismiss my words as just a point of view (pov). I am sad that for these members there is no universally accepted right and wrong, good and bad. Every good and bad, right and wrong and action and reaction to it have to be reduced to easy-to-handle povs. Once reduced to the ambiguous povs, these are easy to work with. You do not have to take a position at all. As I said elsewhere, equivocation is a fine art indeed. Thus EVR’s vituperative anti-brahmin mischief is just a fight against social inequity(Even if all the Naidus, mudalis, pillais and thevars of tamil society go on practising such inequities non-stop it is only the Brahmin who has to beg for pardon). Thus even if the average marati manush is an agriculturist happy managing his sugarcane crop in the rural Maharashtra and all the investments in Industry in Mumbai comes from the pockets of Gujarathis and Marwaris, SIs who are just stenographers and typists or Babus have to be driven away from Mumbai. Hatred is an time tested opiate and it always works well.

Cheers.
 
Takre and EVR are politicians who belong to the same category. They will do anything to gain control of masses. The easy and best way to achieve their goal was to sell the opium of hatred liberally to the masses who could relate to it easily. Takre and EVR both became some what mellowed in the later part of their life because they had finally wielded political power which they wanted. It is an irony that Takre was a Chitpavan Brahmin and EVR was a Naicker who was anti Brahmin.
Click to expand...

The same is now being done by Raj Thackery against Biharis and UP People . I am sure Raj Thackery would take over the Sena Completely from Uddhav after Bal Thackery's demise .
 
Mr. Raju,
Thanks for your honest post.
I did not reply to the original post in part to "not speak ill of the dead" and other part because of what these hooligans will do next in the name of SS.

I did want to express my dismay at the sentiment expressed here by South Indians, knowing fully well that Thackre (A Thug) did to our people. I believe that people who use hatred as a motivating force are the worst kind. EVR and Thackre are similar goons. Just because they they hated your enemy they do not become your friend.
 
Dear Shri Raju,

Patiently I read your complete post. After thinking for more than 12 hours I started the post today morning. Point of View (POV)- as mentioned in your post is fully valid and as I mentioned in my thread my visit to Mumbai was only in 1979 as compared to your period of 1960s. Hence there is certainly two different POV exists in our opinion.

What I witnessed in Mumbai - in 1983 or so - there was a policemen strike and Shiv Sena really came to our rescue and ensure all the people and more particularly women to reach their destinations. Post Ayodhya riots, Shiv Sena really played an important role in ensuring safety of most of the Hindus in Mumbai. Yes - I do admit - there was always a sense of fear whenever any bandh supported by Shiv Sena.

I also lived in Tamil Nadu till my graduation in 1979 - that was the time in which EVR was very famous including incidents like breaking of Vinayagar statute, attack on Thuglak magazine etc were happened. The amount of anti brahmin views which I experienced was far higher than the anto SI feeling expressed by Shiv Sena. What I mentioned in my thread is post Ayodhya stand of Shri Late Bal Thackarey where there is complete shift in his stand towards Hinduism.

I respect your views but at the same as you have mentioned POV are certainly different.

Venkat K
 
I was just going to ask how come South Indians would want to support such a person so hated and burnt and looted shops and there was even a lungi slogan i believe but glad I wasn't the only one wondering!
 
The demise of Shri Balasaheb Thackray was an irreparable loss to the people of Maharashtra. He was a flag bearer of Marathi Pride who roused the self respect of the "Marathi Manoos". The unprecedented mass of humanity gathered for his funeral itself is the proof of his popularity. 86 year old Cartoonist turned Politician was unique in every sense to Indian politics. He was a fiery orator and expressed his views without fear and stood by what he believed. In the interview with Rajdeep Sardesai of CNN/IBN, Bal Thackray told that he preferred himself to be called as "Political Cartoonist". He was a life long friend of R.K.Laxman and both cartoonists worked together in Free Press Journal.
Shri Balasaheb Thackray was a nationalist to the core and great supporter of Hinduthva.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Did Bal Thackeray's"Hindutva" ideology alienate Muslim population from him?

Otherwise,why would a leading Islamic cleric from Lucknow mourn Thackeray's death?

Expressing grief at Thackeray's demise, Lucknow's Naib Imam Maulana Khalid Rasheed (he also heads the city's oldest Islamic seminary, 'Firangi Mahal') said, "the stature of Balasaheb Thackeray was such that no one could ignore him in Indian politics." "Thackeray remained an icon for his party, where his word was law," Rasheed said, adding, "However, there was a vast majority in the country that did not agree with his brand of politics, which they considered divisive. Had it not been like that, his influence would have spread across the country."

oneindia


The doctor who treated Thackeray for the past five years and was with him in his last hours was a Muslim.

Dr Jalil Parkar, well known Pulmonologist from Lilavati hospital who had been Thackeray's trusted physician for the last five years, made the announcement of Sena chief's death last evening with tears in his eyes before the crowd of party workers and media persons here.

Dr Parkar, a Muslim, earned the faith of Thackeray family after he successfully treated the Sena patriarch's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), a lung disease that makes breathing difficult, some years ago.

From thereon, every time Thackeray developed health complications, Dr Parkar was called in. He became so close to the family that in the recent years he was spotted on the dais with other VIPs at the annual Dussehra rally of Shiv Sena.

Dr Parkar is credited with saving Thackeray's life five times in five years. When Thackeray needed a second heart intervention in 2009 (the first was needed in 1996), it was Dr Parkar who prescribed the treatment which was readily accepted by the Sena chief.

When Uddhav Thackeray, his son and Shiv Sena executive president, needed a heart surgery some months ago, it was again Dr Parkar who led the medical team which treated him.

Thackeray’sdoctor was a muslim
Bal Thackeray shared strong bond with his Muslim physician hindustantimes

 
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suraju06 said:
This post too has become a little lengthy. Those who have patience may read it and people with poor attention span, please skip and move.

When the chorus is singing in praise some one has to make the counter point so that the balance is restored. I have lived in Mumbai in the 1960s when anti south indian feelings were stoked by Bal Takre and his lieutenants. Bal Takre had just started Shiv Sena (SS)and was working hard to find a toe hold in Maharashtra politics. Bal Takre had his humble beginning as a cartoonist with Free Press Journal(FPJ), an English Daily in Bombay. R.K. Laxman, the legendary cartoonist was also working with FPJ at that time. Though Takre and Laxman were very talented cartoonists, Laxman was a tad better. This led to professional rivalry between the two. There was a preponderance of south indians in the employees/editorial board list of FPJ. Takre had a grudge that his legitimate claims were ignored by FPJ because Laxman being a south Indian was always preferred and this lead to his getting the basic grudge and grievance against SIs which he used as the platform to catch the imagination of poor Maharashtran labour in the large metropolis called Mumbai. A personal grudge and the wrong perception borne out of that was the kernal from which grew the political party called SS. This is remarkably similar to EVR’s founding a political party in Tamil Nadu because of his differences with other leaders in Indian National Congress who were Brahmins. EVR too thought he can rally people by relating to the generally perceived hostility towards the leadership role played by Brahmins in the society of that time. While EVR and his deputies said in his later days that they had nothing against Brahmins but they had every thing against “brahminism” ( they never cared to define this “brahminism” because brahminism was practised more by middle castes towards lower castes than by Brahmins themselves). From anti-south-indianism to anti Bihariism Takre had travelled a long distance and in the journey had enjoyed political power. While EVR never gave up his anti Brahmin posture Takre also never gave up his anti SI posture. If anything he had only stopped talking about it for some time.

I remember vividly the face of a stranger (not a south Indian) who was shot dead by police near the railway line in Dadar Rly. Station during the peak of arson in Mumbai during the anti-madrasi stir of 1960s. I have never run that fast in my life time like I ran that day, inadvertently caught in the midst of a riot.

Takre and EVR are politicians who belong to the same category. They will do anything to gain control of masses. The easy and best way to achieve their goal was to sell the opium of hatred liberally to the masses who could relate to it easily. Takre and EVR both became some what mellowed in the later part of their life because they had finally wielded political power which they wanted. It is an irony that Takre was a Chitpavan Brahmin and EVR was a Naicker who was anti Brahmin.

We have people among the general public-I am speaking here about the well read, well informed, mature people leaving aside the blind and passionate hordes of followers of these “leaders” who never think at all. We find even among members here those who try to dismiss my words as just a point of view (pov). I am sad that for these members there is no universally accepted right and wrong, good and bad. Every good and bad, right and wrong and action and reaction to it have to be reduced to easy-to-handle povs. Once reduced to the ambiguous povs, these are easy to work with. You do not have to take a position at all. As I said elsewhere, equivocation is a fine art indeed. Thus EVR’s vituperative anti-brahmin mischief is just a fight against social inequity(Even if all the Naidus, mudalis, pillais and thevars of tamil society go on practising such inequities non-stop it is only the Brahmin who has to beg for pardon). Thus even if the average marati manush is an agriculturist happy managing his sugarcane crop in the rural Maharashtra and all the investments in Industry in Mumbai comes from the pockets of Gujarathis and Marwaris, SIs who are just stenographers and typists or Babus have to be driven away from Mumbai. Hatred is an time tested opiate and it always works well.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if Thackeray was against R.K.Laxman.....Please read the following as recalled by R.K.Laxman's family members
R K Laxman's family recalls bond with cartoonist Bal Thackeray - Times Of India

Many of my relatives are in Mumbai for more than 6 decades...They grew up in Mumbai, speak fantastic Marathi....They have never ever faced any problems in the society...All of the them grew up there & are well placed...In fact one my cousin's son Medium of instruction is Marathi..Rather with news trickling in the early 80's that Tamil Brahmins were attacked in TN, there were anxious enquiries from my relatives in Mumbai...My assessment is that our community was held in high esteem by Shiv Sena.
 
Vgane's post #12 for reference:

I am not sure if Thackeray was against R.K.Laxman.....Please read the following as recalled by R.K.Laxman's family members
R K Laxman's family recalls bond with cartoonist Bal Thackeray - Times Of India
Many of my relatives are in Mumbai for more than 6 decades...They grew up in Mumbai, speak fantastic Marathi....They have never ever faced any problems in the society...All of the them grew up there & are well placed...In fact one my cousin's son Medium of instruction is Marathi..Rather with news trickling in the early 80's that Tamil Brahmins were attacked in TN, there were anxious enquiries from my relatives in Mumbai...My assessment is that our community was held in high esteem by Shiv Sena.
Click to expand...

I stand by what I had posted earlier. Usually people do not speak ill of dead persons that too a person like Takre immediately after his death. Laxman and TOI are no exception to this rule. Laxman and Takre were friends and colleagues who worked in FPJ. But Takre's antipathy towards South Indians emanated from his work life experience in FPJ . The majority of work force that sustained FPJ in those days was Malayalis and a few Tamils. This was indeed an issue which agitated Takre. I had friends who were working with FPJ at that time who were aware of what was going on. Takre's famous (or infamous) quote "I had to run from pillai to pillai (this was a pun on 'pillar to post' in English) in the Mantralaya to move my papers" had its origin in his experience at FPJ. I lived in Maharashtra and learnt the language Marathi in the Sunday classes conducted by the Mumbai Tamil Sangam at King's Circle. I had subscribed to Marmik too. I have nothing to say about the esteem in which TBs are held in Mumbai. The fact that Takre used questionable methods to achieve his goal of becoming a leader of masses can not be papered over.
 
Some people suffer from Stockholm syndrome, others try to gloss over, some others think of all enemy of enemy to be a friend. I do not suffer from any of those maladies.
I strongly deplore the use of hatred as a motivating force. Thakre a thug, ran his gang of goons with an iron hand. He achieved popularity, but he was a bad leader in a democracy. I am not a hero worshiper, and still like democracy, and freedom.
 
[h=1]Two girls held for Facebook post questioning 'Bal Thackeray shutdown' of Mumbai, get bail[/h]
Is this a democracy??????????
Two girls who posted a comment on a social networking site questioning the shutdown in the city for Shiv Sena patriarch Bal Thackeray's funeral, were arrested in neighbouring Thane and later granted bail, police said on Monday.


Shaheen Dhada, was arrested yesterday after she posted comments on Facebook opposing the shutdown.


She allegedly said that one should not observe bandh for Thackeray's funeral. "We should remember Bhagat Singh and Sukhdev," the post said.


Dhada's friend Renu was arrested for 'liking' the post.


"Police arrested both of them under section 505(2) (statements creating or promoting enmity, hatred or ill-will between classes). Today, they were granted bail," their advocate Sudhir Gupta said.


The duo was arrested following a complaint lodged by a local Sena leader.


Immediately, after the comment a mob of nearly 40 Shiv Sainiks allegedly barged into Dhada's uncles's orthopaedic hospital at Palghar and vandalised the place yesterday.
 
suraju06 said:
This post too has become a little lengthy. Those who have patience may read it and people with poor attention span, please skip and move.

The genesis is well brought out and IMO, rightly made out. I wish to add that The FPJ was again, I believe, was started by a SI, Swaminadha Sadanand. In today's Maharashtrians the hatred is instilled by SS, but I was wondering whether the FPJ and RK Laxman were the source or reason for the SI hatred. And again there is false belief that the SIs usurped the Maharashtrians" jobs (like the alleged Brahminsm), which refuses to go out of their clouded minds. Whereas there was nobody else to take up jobs available. Today even unqualified and inefficient hands usurp job of SIs here and every where. I have been in Mumbai since the 60s and a friend of mine who had been here a decade earlier, used to say that executives of big Cos would scout for assistants during their lunch time in Irani Restaurant after Restaurant. Well history is always a bundle of lies and the bundles become mountains which will reach the sky soon.
Click to expand...
 
Age mellowed him and perhaps chips of wisdom also dawned on him. Of course, the fire power against the Gujaratis, UPwallas and Biharis has been less intense. As a matter of fact, we had no protection (except from Dharavi clans) here nor were we wanted there in TN. He united a whole lot of Maharashtrians but had to face his own family divided. It is after explaining by our people that Shiv Sainiks came to know of Thanjavur and Madurai so good was their knowledge of their own history. Again they have already distorted the short history to boost their own image. He would have almost been lost to BMC history, but climbed on the Wagon "Hindutva". This again turned the injured minds of SIs to support him. Almost all leaders and their qualities are made up by people who support them, but those leaders would be laughing into their sleeves about their image rather than their self.
 
Brahmanyan said:
The demise of Shri Balasaheb Thackray was an irreparable loss to the people of Maharashtra. He was a flag bearer of Marathi Pride who roused the self respect of the "Marathi Manoos". The unprecedented mass of humanity gathered for his funeral itself is the proof of his popularity. 86 year old Cartoonist turned Politician was unique in every sense to Indian politics. He was a fiery orator and expressed his views without fear and stood by what he believed. In the interview with Rajdeep Sardesai of CNN/IBN, Bal Thackray told that he preferred himself to be called as "Political Cartoonist". He was a life long friend of R.K.Laxman and both cartoonists worked together in Free Press Journal.
Shri Balasaheb Thackray was a nationalist to the core and great supporter of Hinduthva.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
Click to expand...

Close to 2 Million poeple attended the funeral of Shri Thackarey and yet the entire city remained peaceful. There were no violence of any nature. Today the life is normal in Mumbai. All these things prove that over a period of time, certainly there are changes in the attitude of people. Three interview of Shri Thackarey - 2004, 2007 and 2011 - which were repeatedly telecasted yesterday by the news channels were really worth watching.

Venkat K
 
Brahmanyan's post #10 for reference with my comments in blue:

The demise of Shri Balasaheb Thackray was an irreparable loss to the people of Maharashtra.
Yes. No doubt. Not only to Maharashtrians but also to all the Hindus of the country because they lost the commandent of a brigade of storm trooppers.

He was a flag bearer of Marathi Pride who roused the self respect of the "Marathi Manoos".
A fifty+something is asking a stupid question to me: why only the Marathi pride to the exclusion of Indian pride/Hindu pride?

The unprecedented mass of humanity gathered for his funeral itself is the proof of his popularity.
Popularity-yes. Greatness-?

86 year old Cartoonist turned Politician was unique in every sense to Indian politics.
Certainly not unique. He was in the notorious company of EVR and many other small and big rabble rousers of Indian political drama.

He was a fiery orator and expressed his views without fear and stood by what he believed.
There can not be two opinions on this. I have attended his lectures in Shivaji Park, Dadar. He mesmerises you with his flow of language.

In the interview with Rajdeep Sardesai of CNN/IBN, Bal Thackray told that he preferred himself to be called as "Political Cartoonist". He was a life long friend of R.K.Laxman and both cartoonists worked together in Free Press Journal.
Takre was indeed a good cartoonist next only to RKLaxman.
Shri Balasaheb Thackray was a nationalist to the core and great supporter of Hinduthva.
A nationalist in Mumbai does not strive to bundle out the poor SIs living there.

Cheers.
 
'Mumbai shuts down due to fear, not respect'
“People like Thackeray are born and die daily and one should not observe a bandh for that” — Shaheen got arrested for posting this. Let’s post this on our wall, and let them arrest us too,” Divya Rajagopal posted on Facebook.

The Hindu.
 
So the two girls were arrested. There is outrage. Newspapers scream "gross misapplication" of the law! But the fact is the issue is not "misapplication" of the law. The issue is the law itself.

Let's look at section 66A of the IT act:

66A. Punishment for sending offensive messages through communication service, etc..- Any person who sends, by means of a computer resource or a communication device,-(a) any information that is grossly offensive or has menacing character; or (b) any information which he knows to be false, but for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience, danger, obstruction, insult, injury, criminal intimidation, enmity, hatred, or ill will, persistently makes by making use of such computer resource or a communication device,(c) any electronic mail or electronic mail message for the purpose of causing annoyance or inconvenience or to deceive or to mislead the addressee or recipient about the origin of such messages shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to three years and with fine. Explanation: For the purposes of this section, terms “Electronic mail” and “Electronic Mail Message” means a message or information created or transmitted or received on a computer, computer system, computer resource or communication device including attachments in text, image, audio, video and any other electronic record, which may be transmitted with the message.
Click to expand...

The law is so poorly worded and I think it is purposefully done so as to exercise control over any dissent against the government. The terms "offensive", "annoyance", "inconvenience" etc can be very broadly interpreted.

For example, if Prasad were living in India, even he too can be booked for his post #14 in this thread.

This government has become an expert in formulating such laws - starting with RTI, RTE and now this...

We are going down a slippery slope!
 
KB's post#22 for reference:

The law is so poorly worded and I think it is purposefully done so as to [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]exercise[/COLOR] control over any dissent against the government. The terms "offensive", "annoyance", "inconvenience" etc can be very broadly interpreted.
For example, if Prasad were living in India, even he too can be booked for his post #14 in this thread.
This government has become an expert in formulating such laws - starting with RTI, RTE and now this...
We are going down a slippery slope!
Click to expand...

All dissent has to be put down with batons and detention even as we celebrate that our country is the largest democracy in the world. After reading the above post I thought, to be on the safer side, I too will put down this disclaimer:

Whatever I have posted here are all mere opinions and are not intended to hurt any one's sentiments or to belittle any one's greatness.

Balasaheb Takre(I have used the term Bal Takre inadvertantly) is a great Indian Leader. Balasaheb Takre ki jai.
EVR is a great individual ever born in this country. EVR vaazhka.
These are my personal real views about these individuals.

Who cares about what is right and wrong on the basis of universally accepted norms!! Let us all go to hell together and fight for our rights there.

Cheers.
 
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hi

Who cares about what is right and wrong on the basis of universally accepted norms!! Let us all go to hell together and fight for our rights there.


really nice words....hats off to u sir.....
 
I wonder why off late no posts from forum are coming to email?
Is this some new feature?

But it surely reduces one's frequency to view forum cos before when I hear any email indication come in..I will look it up and read it and also reply if I have something to say but now since there are no emails coming in from forum post..frequency of replying posts also has come down.

I wonder why this new change?
 
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