Less Is More

[renuka]

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It is quite a obvious fact that the "lesser" the knowledge the "greater" the confidence.

I have seen this many times in life in most fields.

Those who are truly learned are seldom over confident becos they can sense that what they know is only the tip of the ice berg.

Does this "Less Is More" affect our religious understanding too?

Are we totally what we feel we are?

For example majority of humans who follow a religious path and very confident that they are in the right path and speak about it confidently enough to feel that another's way is not right.

Each person defends his/her own way as the Gospel/Geeta/Quran truth and is super confident.

Is this confidence just ignorance turned inside out?

Even when we say "we believe in God" are we actually only doubting ourselves?

Frankly speaking is there anything we can be 100% confident about?

Nothing?

Firm convictions only seem to re-enforce the "Less is More" effect of ignorance.

It just seems to that everything including ourselves is just plain Ignorance.

We delude ourselves into believing that confidence equals awareness without realizing that its actually like 'Mirror Mirror on the Wall..Who is the most Ignorant of all?"

We are confident when we see our image.

That is the only thing we can be 100% confident about..the Ignorant Image!

 

[krish44]

Renukaji

It is wise to be ignorant about many things

If we try to investigate the pros and cons of every step , we will only delay and not be sure of any outcome .

We would definitely be less confident persons
.
When we analyse any issue normally many alternatives emerge often , we find it difficult to choose and always have a way of making a wrong choice .

I operate first based on my limited knowledge and hope for the best. alternately , hand over the issue to someone else who thinks he has the best solution to the issue.

My success rate is very high due to this approach

 

[Raji Ram]

Very true, Renu in my experience!

I have seen music students whom I consider below standard, sing right away when requested! :thumb:

And...... one student with no swara jnAnam boldly sings Thodi rAgam which is supposed to be difficult for beginners!

It is rightly said: iLam kandru bayam aRiyAdhu!

 

[krish44]

RRji
Age has nothing to do with being ignorant and bold together.

we have oldies with little or no knowledge operating with a lot of self confidence and succeeding many times .

most plumbers in east delhi are from backwards districts of orissa . they learn on the job.

they also come out with brilliant solutions.

I have a sophisticated water mixing system with hot water from geyser and cold water from two tanks one at room height and another 3 floor above designed and

implemented by one such plumber.

the way he has implemented would amaze even a brilliant civil engineer .

only these people had been given the right oppurtunities in life, they would be perhaps heading good companies.

I like to use such people .

I used a youngster the other day as an electrician and guided him to fix a tube as the regular electrician was playing hard to get.

this youngster had knocked on my door for work and was son of a sweeper.and uneducated. I put him to work and gave him as much I would give an electrician.

like this there are lot of people waiting for an oppurtunity.

I have launched couple of youngsters in chennai for work related to my flat there.

I guide them from delhi on what to do .

I got my house painted and all maintenance work utilising them.

they shop and supervise my house related work

 

[sangom]

It is quite a obvious fact that the "lesser" the knowledge the "greater" the confidence.

I have seen this many times in life in most fields.

Those who are truly learned are seldom over confident becos they can sense that what they know is only the tip of the ice berg.

Does this "Less Is More" affect our religious understanding too?

Are we totally what we feel we are?

For example majority of humans who follow a religious path and very confident that they are in the right path and speak about it confidently enough to feel that another's way is not right.

Each person defends his/her own way as the Gospel/Geeta/Quran truth and is super confident.

Is this confidence just ignorance turned inside out?

Even when we say "we believe in God" are we actually only doubting ourselves?

Frankly speaking is there anything we can be 100% confident about?

Nothing?

Firm convictions only seem to re-enforce the "Less is More" effect of ignorance.

It just seems to that everything including ourselves is just plain Ignorance.

We delude ourselves into believing that confidence equals awareness without realizing that its actually like 'Mirror Mirror on the Wall..Who is the most Ignorant of all?"

We are confident when we see our image.

That is the only thing we can be 100% confident about..the Ignorant Image!

Smt. Renuka,

Religion, in my view, is like communism, an indoctrination system. As long as a person is not able to realize this, religion and religious dogmas injected into that person's mind, intellect and the sub-conscious as well, will exert full power and make that person behave exactly as you describe in your OP, "Each person defends his/her own way as the Gospel/Geeta/Quran truth and is super confident."

Because you have probably read vast amounts of religious books/texts and have a good grasp plus fine memory to add, you have started feeling this "Less is more" existing. But even in your case, AFAIK you, probably you will never be able to agree that the Satya Sai Baba worship has been a folly. That is the power of this "Less is more"-ism.

In truth, humans do not know exactly what for and how creation has happened. We have many fanciful theories spun by religions and philosophers. In such a condition the easiest course to follow is "ignorance is (pure) bliss!". Even what Gaudapada said, viz., "न निरोधो न चोत्पत्तिर्न बद्धो न च साधक:। न मुमुक्षर्न वै मुक्त इत्येषा परमार्थता॥" need not necessarily be the truth, but reflect what He could conclude.

 

[renuka]

Because you have probably read vast amounts of religious books/texts and have a good grasp plus fine memory to add, you have started feeling this "Less is more" existing. But even in your case, AFAIK you, probably you will never be able to agree that the Satya Sai Baba worship has been a folly. That is the power of this "Less is more"-ism.

.

Dear Sangom ji,

I need to tell you something.

Sometime back I wrote in Forum that I shut down my house altar.

When I shut it down I stopped all formal worship and that included formal worship of Sathya Sai Baba/Shiridi Baba too. This upset my parents a lot becos they thought I had become an Atheist when the fact is I am NOT an Atheiest.

At present I do not want to lable anything as a folly or holy anymore.

I would rather call everything a process that I went through and thankful to everything I read from works of Sathya Sai Baba,Swami Vivekananda, Paramahansa Yogananda,Osho etc..

If I still want to hold on to any preferred method but yet write a thread about Less is More then for all practical purposes that makes me a hypocrite.

I hope you get a clearer picture of the state of my mind.

 

[renuka]

RRji
Age has nothing to do with being ignorant and bold together.

we have oldies with little or no knowledge operating with a lot of self confidence and succeeding many times .

most plumbers in east delhi are from backwards districts of orissa . they learn on the job.

they also come out with brilliant solutions.

I have a sophisticated water mixing system with hot water from geyser and cold water from two tanks one at room height and another 3 floor above designed and

implemented by one such plumber.

the way he has implemented would amaze even a brilliant civil engineer .

only these people had been given the right oppurtunities in life, they would be perhaps heading good companies.

I like to use such people .

I used a youngster the other day as an electrician and guided him to fix a tube as the regular electrician was playing hard to get.

this youngster had knocked on my door for work and was son of a sweeper.and uneducated. I put him to work and gave him as much I would give an electrician.

like this there are lot of people waiting for an oppurtunity.

I have launched couple of youngsters in chennai for work related to my flat there.

I guide them from delhi on what to do .

I got my house painted and all maintenance work utilising them.

they shop and supervise my house related work

Dear Krish ji,

Its not about having a degree or not.

Its about having knowledge or not.

But I have noted less knowledge or less experience the more confident.

 

[renuka]

Dear Krish ji,

I will give you a simple example.

Just say sometimes a patient with some illness comes and we treat him and he asks us "will I be able to get well by tomorrow?"

Usually we say "if you were to take the medication..recovery should be soon enough and give yourself a few days to recover"

No doctor dare be too confident that patient will recover in 24 hours becos we need to see the progress of the disease too.

But have you seen quacks? If a patient asks them the same thing they will reply "You will recover in the next 1 hour itself..the medicine is so effective"

Due to his display of "confidence" many people fall prey to quacks!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

It is quite a obvious fact that the "lesser" the knowledge the "greater" the confidence.

I have seen this many times in life in most fields.

Those who are truly learned are seldom over confident becos they can sense that what they know is only the tip of the ice berg.

Does this "Less Is More" affect our religious understanding too?

Are we totally what we feel we are?

For example majority of humans who follow a religious path and very confident that they are in the right path and speak about it confidently enough to feel that another's way is not right.

Each person defends his/her own way as the Gospel/Geeta/Quran truth and is super confident.

Is this confidence just ignorance turned inside out?

Even when we say "we believe in God" are we actually only doubting ourselves?

Frankly speaking is there anything we can be 100% confident about?

Nothing?

Firm convictions only seem to re-enforce the "Less is More" effect of ignorance.

It just seems to that everything including ourselves is just plain Ignorance.

We delude ourselves into believing that confidence equals awareness without realizing that its actually like 'Mirror Mirror on the Wall..Who is the most Ignorant of all?"

We are confident when we see our image.

That is the only thing we can be 100% confident about..the Ignorant Image!

1. lesser and greater are terms used here by an observer who is a third party. We do not know what that individual concerned who is the subject of judgment, who is found to be lesser in knowledge and greater in confidence, has to say. For all this "great analysis" by others, he may even be unaware of somebody judging him this way. If you ask him, he may disarmingly tell you that he does not consider himself to be very learned/knowledgeable and not very confident either. He says what he says because he has only that to say. It may be as simple as that.

2.Those who are truly learned, if they keep just quiet, the world passes by happily unaware of them and they have never existed or they do not exist as far as the world is concerned. So we can not discuss about a nonexistent entity here. Like the black holes in the space let them be or not be there.

3.Whether it is religion or life in general, human mind works like this: Observe, assess and then try. There is a decision box in which there is a "if" sitting there convenient for you with two pathways branching off from there. It is like the algorithm of a computer program. In that "if" stage you are supposed to consider whether that experience was good or bad (pleasant or painful at a fundamental level) and if it was good go ahead for more of it and travel in that road further until you come across another "if" box. If bad you avoid that pathway and choose the other path and move. You have no freedom to stay for long at any point for it is a dynamic ever moving journey of life.

4. When we say we believe in god, we do not doubt ourselves. We just tell others the coordinates which will help them find us in the space. We have reached there and stay there because it is least painful from experience. And we keep travelling in that route until perhaps something happens because of which either we lose the faith and turn an atheist or die as a believer with faith in God and his ability and inclination to save us. We have passed through several decision boxes already each the result of an assessment and at every such stop we had options to quit or continue. We chose the "continue " option and have reached the present location. We have the freedom to quit any time.

5. Renukaji, you are walking on a path. You are midway between one decision box and another. Your time will come at the next junction when you will decide. You are only expressing your thought process now. Carry on with the journey.

Just from another drishti kone. LOL.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

You got my point totally wrong! By 'iLam kandru' I meant less experience and NOT the age!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

What you said happens not only in the medical field but in all the fields.

If we visit a half boiled astrologer, he will give the parihArams to become a multi-millionaire by next year !!

 

[Vaagmi]

I have come across great Doctors who had told me:

--you follow the course of treatment I have recommended strictly and you will be back in perfect health after 15 days of the treatment as prescribed.

--Considering the basic health of you and the stage of the ailment you are afflicted with, it will take 10 days for you to get back to your normal routine life. you will be alright by then.

And they are not fakes by any standard.

 

[renuka]

I have come across great Doctors who had told me:

--you follow the course of treatment I have recommended strictly and you will be back in perfect health after 15 days of the treatment as prescribed.

--Considering the basic health of you and the stage of the ailment you are afflicted with, it will take 10 days for you to get back to your normal routine life. you will be alright by then.

And they are not fakes by any standard.

I agree but for legal purposes I usually do not state the exact days of possible recovery.So I usually give a range.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

What you said happens not only in the medical field but in all the fields.

If we visit a half boiled astrologer, he will give the parihArams to become a multi-millionaire by next year !!

Dear RR ji,

Its marketing strategy I guess.

 

[renuka]

5. Renukaji, you are walking on a path. You are midway between one decision box and another. Your time will come at the next junction when you will decide. You are only expressing your thought process now. Carry on with the journey.

.

How far can anyone go? Finally we come back to where we were..we only walked in circles. The legs just needed the exercise...so happen the mind actually thought that it could also walk!LOL

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom ji,

I need to tell you something.

Sometime back I wrote in Forum that I shut down my house altar.

When I shut it down I stopped all formal worship and that included formal worship of Sathya Sai Baba/Shiridi Baba too. This upset my parents a lot becos they thought I had become an Atheist when the fact is I am NOT an Atheiest.

At present I do not want to lable anything as a folly or holy anymore.

I would rather call everything a process that I went through and thankful to everything I read from works of Sathya Sai Baba,Swami Vivekananda, Paramahansa Yogananda,Osho etc..

If I still want to hold on to any preferred method but yet write a thread about Less is More then for all practical purposes that makes me a hypocrite.

I hope you get a clearer picture of the state of my mind.

Smt. Renuka,

Sorry, I was not aware of these developments, and thought that there is no change because I observe that the "sai lives on thread" shows that you post in it off and on.

I can well understand - at least that is what I feel - your state of mind, because I have also been through a similar phase. I used to ponder over questions like 'what, after all is God?, Has God a form like elephant-headedness, half-man & half-lion, wild boar, monkey-like face (Hanuman), etc., or are all these just religions grand cheating scheme to lure people as their moronic customers? Has God ever come before Man and told him (the human) to do certain things and not to do certain things? Why should one god be anathema or a lesser god to some? Are there many different gods one in charge of hindu, muslim, christian? and so on." After quite some time of such deep introspection, one day something dawned on me. Ever since I am clear about god, religion, etc. I have made feeble attempts to explain, in this forum itself but later realized that there is no point in doing so and that each person has to traverse the path laid out for him/her, because it is also ordained by Karma.

Hence my suggestion to you would be to deeply ponder over any doubts, questions which you may have; answers will come eventually.

 

[JR]

There are several facets to feeling 'confident' about oneself. One can have knowledge about one's capacity or ability - one can be a bright person who does not feel intimidated to learn anything quickly and in such a case, such a person will exhibit confidence even when knowing less. When it comes to religion, listening to the discourses from the very learned gives one with a confidence that what he/she learnt is authentic and thus speak to others with confidence on such subjects. And besides, what really is 'less is more'? In any given field, what one comes to know is just few little things and not really a lot (as it is not possible) as the saying goes, 'Katradhu Kaimmannalavu Kallaadadhu Ulagalavu'.

For the benefit of everyone I give the following interesting story: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg04926.html

There is an interesting Upanishad story. The Rishi Bharadwaj wanted to study all the four Vedas and so he started Vedaadhyana and continued it for many
years, when he realized that his life may end, he Prayed for Indra. Indra
appeared before him and wanted know his wish. Rishi Bharadwaj asked for one
hundred years of more longevity. Indra before granting the wish wanted to know
what the Rishi would do with one hundred years of Ayush.

The Rishi replied that he would pursue Vedaadhyana. Indra disappeared and Rishi
continued with his Vedaadhyana and finally could realize that even extra one
hundred years were also coming to an end. So, he prayed for Indra. Indra again
appeared and the Rishi again wished for one more hundred years of longevity.
Indra again wanted to know what the Rishi would do with one more hundred years
of Ayush. The Rishi replied that his Vedaadhyana was incomplete and so would
pursue the Vedaadhyana and Indra again granted one more hundred years of Ayush
to the Rishi.

Like this Rishi Bharadwaj continued Vedaadhyana for three hundred years. But
yet the Rishi was not content with Vedaadhyana and was unhappy. Indra appeared
before him without praying and enquired why the Rishi was unhappy, even after
300 years of Vedaadhyana. The Rishi informed Indra, he could not complete

Vedaadhyana, despite deeply studying them. Then Indra created three great
mountains in front of him and enquired whether the Rishi knew anything about
them. The Rishi pleaded his ignorance.

Then Indra told him that they are the symbolic representation of Knowledge
contained in three Vedas. Indra took one fistful of sand from each one of the
mountains and explained to the Rishi that after three hundred years of
strenuous efforts the Rishi could attain only fistful of knowledge out of great
mountains of Knowledge from Vedas. Then Rishi Bharadwaj realized that it was
totally impossible to completely study the Vedas and assimilate them. For a
Rishi like Bharadwaj after three hundred years of strenuous efforts, he could
attain only very little of knowledge, then what of common man.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

Sorry, I was not aware of these developments, and thought that there is no change because I observe that the "sai lives on thread" shows that you post in it off and on.

I can well understand - at least that is what I feel - your state of mind, because I have also been through a similar phase. I used to ponder over questions like 'what, after all is God?, Has God a form like elephant-headedness, half-man & half-lion, wild boar, monkey-like face (Hanuman), etc., or are all these just religions grand cheating scheme to lure people as their moronic customers? Has God ever come before Man and told him (the human) to do certain things and not to do certain things? Why should one god be anathema or a lesser god to some? Are there many different gods one in charge of hindu, muslim, christian? and so on." After quite some time of such deep introspection, one day something dawned on me. Ever since I am clear about god, religion, etc. I have made feeble attempts to explain, in this forum itself but later realized that there is no point in doing so and that each person has to traverse the path laid out for him/her, because it is also ordained by Karma.

Hence my suggestion to you would be to deeply ponder over any doubts, questions which you may have; answers will come eventually.

Dear Sangom ji,

I post daily in Sai Thread becos I started that thread and I take it as my responsibility to post there daily.....previously it was a "temple" but now its a duty.

At present when I do not hold on to any method anymore I feel more free to indulge in anything yet do not get overly attached to anything but to do that was not easy..enough times I felt guilty of being "ungrateful" to God but yet a feeling in me felt if my body was feeling differently..it is surely a plunge I need to take.

May be that is how its meant for me.

I dont mind even being wrong but at least I tried..and I feel free...becos there is also no guarantee that there is a right or wrong.

But yet I am still learning becos even though I shut my prayer room and feel the "freedom" to be or not to be but this whole new feeling came crashing down yesterday becos I realized that I was attached to my TV channel!

Really...my satellite TV removed Fox channel from my current subscription and I need to upgrade my channel in order to get Fox channel again.

I was what? Oh No! I wont get to see NCIS and Sleepy Hollow till this upgrade process is over.

So that means no big deal...I can shut my prayer room but yet get attached to my TV channel.

So I began to think..may be I just detached myself from the idea of a personal God and a prayer room but go attached to a TV channel instead!LOL

It's a good eye opener for me that the human mind just latches to what ever it can but yet we feel we can be detached and move beyond.

So I am still learning to get a grip in life with regards to religion and its application in life.

But for now..I need to understand why I was so attached to Fox channel!

 

[krish44]

renukaji
you are excellent material for indoctrination.

your beliefs are changing fast.

you cannot hold on to anything as a human being due to a fine intellect and capacity to analyse everything threadbare and suffer more in the bargain

it would be a good idea not to think too deeply about anything if one were to be happy and find life enjoyable.

the objective of life is to be happy . if you need to be ignorant for that ,let us be so.less you know ,perhaps better if that makes you happy.

one cannot escape some bonds as they get tied to duties . you are person with a higher sense of duty than most . so you cannot help bonding.

so do not torture yourself for no reason . one has to evolve a philosophy of life suiting oneself best depending on situation one is in

so no one help . you have to help yourself

 

[renuka]

renukaji
you are excellent material for indoctrination.

your beliefs are changing fast.

you cannot hold on to anything as a human being due to a fine intellect and capacity to analyse everything threadbare and suffer more in the bargain

it would be a good idea not to think too deeply about anything if one were to be happy and find life enjoyable.

the objective of life is to be happy . if you need to be ignorant for that ,let us be so.less you know ,perhaps better if that makes you happy.

one cannot escape some bonds as they get tied to duties . you are person with a higher sense of duty than most . so you cannot help bonding.

so do not torture yourself for no reason . one has to evolve a philosophy of life suiting oneself best depending on situation one is in

so no one help . you have to help yourself

Dear Krish ji,

I wonder where is the "torture"?

Sometimes what seems like "torture" is actually "pleasure".

Even when we eat..cells in our oral cavity get sloughed off as we chew the food.

So the act of eating might seem like a "torture" to the cells of the oral cavity but these are the finer "tortures" in life that nourish the body via eating.

But I have to agree that my beliefs are fast changing..sometime back my father wanted me to write a chapter or two in his book(his 3rd book) which he is writing.

So I thought Ok..let me write on the given topic...so I wrote a some 3 short chapters and by the time I finished the 3rd chapter I did not agree with my 1st chapter! My opinion had changed.

So I told my dad its not possible for me to write becos I keep changing my beliefs.If one wants to write a book he/she cant change his beliefs in between and that is not easy.

Coming back to the "torture' story..not everyone appreciates S&M!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

How far can anyone go? Finally we come back to where we were..we only walked in circles. The legs just needed the exercise...so happen the mind actually thought that it could also walk!LOL

I observe an obsession with single point, single consciousness, unity ( sAyujyam?), circles which again be reductionist in that they reduce to a single point idea etc., in your posts. May be due to the influence of a certain ism which you were clutching with a lot of hopes.

Look at the universe as made of multiple points-each independent of other, multiple existence with all ups and downs with all good and bad among them like the colors of a rainbow -there are millions of those colors, is'nt it?- that all single points are in fact micro circles etc.,

Mind, walking the distance, is a good figure of speech.

Keep walking untill you visit each color combination of the rainbow-there are trillions-and get tired of the colors. then you will find yourself still walking-yes, past just one of those mile stones. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Keep walking untill you visit each color combination of the rainbow-there are trillions-and get tired of the colors. then you will find yourself still walking-yes, past just one of those mile stones. LOL.

One keeps walking thinking he will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and it will be Pongalo Pongal in terms of gold..little he realized that the rainbow was just a colorful mirage..that deluded him to take the first step..upon reaching..there were never colors and neither was there gold.

All that was is only himself...that never moved when the legs walked!

 

[Vaagmi]

One keeps walking thinking he will find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and it will be Pongalo Pongal in terms of gold..little he realized that the rainbow was just a colorful mirage..that deluded him to take the first step..upon reaching..there were never colors and neither was there gold.

All that was is only himself...that never moved when the legs walked!

No way you will learn to walk away from the current viewing angle.

Yes there was no color, no rainbow, no pot, no gold, no legs, no walking. But there was this Pongal in tact. I ate it and wow! what a pongal. Thanks for the pongal. You are good at making pongal. Make a lot of it and distribute it. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Yes there was no color, no rainbow, no pot, no gold, no legs, no walking. But there was this Pongal in tact. I ate it and wow! what a pongal. Thanks for the pongal. You are good at making pongal. Make a lot of it and distribute it. LOL.

Now I have become "realized"..I feel like Lord Krishna...I have given Vaagmi ji the Akshaya Patra for a continuous supply of Pongal!

One Pot and a lifetime supply of Pongal...Less is Indeed More!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

Now I have become "realized"..I feel like Lord Krishna...I have given Vaagmi ji the Akshaya Patra for a continuous supply of Pongal!

One Pot and a lifetime supply of Pongal...Less is Indeed More!LOL

You should have asked me before sending that pot. I would have preferred puliyotharai. A life time supply of puliyodarai is quite enticing for a vaishnavite and not pongal. Are you aware that there is a saying that advaitam is like pongal without "sarkarai/vellam". LOL. Thanks for sending me only the pongal with sarkarai knowing me well, while retaining the "no sweettness' pongal for yourself. LOL. And how much sweet pongal can I eat? I like things sizzling, hot and spicy. Puliyodarai is far better. Can you send a fresh pot?