Maya - Captivating Power

[sravna]

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In this thread I am giving a radical interpretation of maya, but one which I believe is logical. Members may test my logic and put forth their views.

Those who were reading my recent thread in the chit chat section and my arguments with Renuka, have been introduced to my concept of maya.

Maya to me is the equivalent of saguna brahman. When they coexist as a whole is the reality of nirguna brahman. Maya represents the analytic aspect and saguna brahman the holistic aspect though maya just like someone who analyses and sees the whole instantly, is also holistic and similarly saguna brahman is also analytic.

In the reality of nirguna brahman therefore they are one but in the projection of nirguna brahman, these two aspects separate.

To create the physical reality, the whole veils itself and turns into a number parts and gets discretized. We can infer this ability of maya to veil because in a step by step analytic process the whole is seen only finally. So in a sense the holistic nature of saguna brahman is cut and discreteness projected.

But the discreteness is an illusion as the whole is eventually revealed.

Renuka and others your views please.

 

[sravna]

Maya represents the feminine aspect and saguna brahman the masculine aspect. Feminine aspect because it has creative power.

But in a nice twist I believe maya is more prevalent among males and the saguna brahman aspect among females. My reason is since maya represents feminine aspect in the spiritual reality to assert equivalence maya is preponderant among the males and vice versa.

Maya and saguna brahman are equivalent in the spiritual reality but maya is the queen of physical reality as maya prevails till the very end. At best saguna brahman can become one with maya but never prevails.

 

[sravna]

Constancy and change both characterize physical reality. The evolution is from change to constancy. If one were to use the concepts of science, maya represents waves of energy in perfect harmony giving rise to a constant energy. Saguna brahman represents constant energy which has as its equivalent waves of energy in perfect harmony. So we can see both maya and saguna brahman are interchangeable though in the projected reality they separate as two aspects with maya representing change and saguna brahman representing constancy.

The two energies superimpose to produce all combinations of energy which unfold as space, time and their energies. The unfolding occurs I believe in accordance with what is explained in the scriptures.

Since constancy is the ultimate essence of both that becomes the ultimate reality. But the specific essence of maya which is change is reflected as the feature of physical reality and can be considered as illusory or relative with respect to the ultimate reality.

 

[Mohan Parasuram]

Constancy and change both characterize physical reality. The evolution is from change to constancy. If one were to use the concepts of science, maya represents waves of energy in perfect harmony giving rise to a constant energy. Saguna brahman represents constant energy which has as its equivalent waves of energy in perfect harmony. So we can see both maya and saguna brahman are interchangeable though in the projected reality they separate as two aspects with maya representing change and saguna brahman representing constancy.

The two energies superimpose to produce all combinations of energy which unfold as space, time and their energies. The unfolding occurs I believe in accordance with what is explained in the scriptures.

Since constancy is the ultimate essence of both that becomes the ultimate reality. But the specific essence of maya which is change is reflected as the feature of physical reality and can be considered as illusory or relative with respect to the ultimate reality.

Maya is the deluding factor. Under mayas influence one is deluded To think everything in the world as real and prevents from realising the ultimate truth the ananda which is with in oneself

 

[renuka]

In this thread I am giving a radical interpretation of maya, but one which I believe is logical. Members may test my logic and put forth their views.

Those who were reading my recent thread in the chit chat section and my arguments with Renuka, have been introduced to my concept of maya.

Maya to me is the equivalent of saguna brahman. When they coexist as a whole is the reality of nirguna brahman. Maya represents the analytic aspect and saguna brahman the holistic aspect though maya just like someone who analyses and sees the whole instantly, is also holistic and similarly saguna brahman is also analytic.

In the reality of nirguna brahman therefore they are one but in the projection of nirguna brahman, these two aspects separate.

To create the physical reality, the whole veils itself and turns into a number parts and gets discretized. We can infer this ability of maya to veil because in a step by step analytic process the whole is seen only finally. So in a sense the holistic nature of saguna brahman is cut and discreteness projected.

But the discreteness is an illusion as the whole is eventually revealed.

Renuka and others your views please.

Sravna, I prefer to adhere with the Vedantic concept of Maya.
That is Nirguna Brahman is the Unmanifest and manifest existence comes into being through its inherent power Maya Shakti.

As I said earlier in the Chit Chat thread..the anology of Brahman and Maya is like Fire and heat( burning capacity)

If Brahman is fire, Maya is its burning capacity.

Even in a normal gas stove fire itself I wont be able to seperate fire from its heat as to understand its mechanics..all I would know is Fire exists and its heat too exists..beyond that I dont think I would know more.

Btw what has Maya got to do with analysis?
Maya means that which is not.
Its just a projectile power that brought about manifestation of the phenomenal world.

The analysis is Atma Vichara yet even then one would not be able to know Maya but one can finally find the answer to " Naan Yaar?"( Ko' ham).

Maya though its the ultimate veil but we do have to ponder about it because in no way its aids the seeker to seek answers.

For me I rather focus on God then to think of Maya.
Maya need not be deciphered..just set Her aside.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

I offered a logical argument. There is no way you can talk of nirguna brahman and maya together without giving maya equality, actually it has to be equivalence. Think of any other way of reconciling nirguna brahman with maya. I will find a contradiction. This challenge is open to all. If Sankara were alive today I would challenge him too.

 

[sravna]

If spiritual energy has to be of practical utility maya has to be decoded. Maya also has to be decoded to aid in our day to day actions. However let me add that maya cannot be decoded in entirety except at nirguna brahman reality. But we are decoding maya constantly through science and logic but only to the extent of the scope of space and time. So I believe decoding to that extent is possible.

Spiritual energy of saguna brahman essence I believe does not have as much practical utility as spiritual energy of the essence of maya. If someday we use spiritual technology it would be because of decoding maya.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

I offered a logical argument. There is no way you can talk of nirguna brahman and maya together without giving maya equality, actually it has to be equivalence. Think of any other way of reconciling nirguna brahman with maya. I will find a contradiction. This challenge is open to all. If Sankara were alive today I would challenge him too.

Sravna,
There is an equality..The Fire and its heat analogy.

We cant talk of Nirguna Brahman because that is unmanifest.

Wow, you would want to challenge Adi Shankara if he were alive today?

 

[renuka]

Btw Sravna, what makes you think there is Nirguna/Saguna Brahman and Maya to start with?

What if its just us humans who have a limited perception and could not go beyond a certain level of awareness and then thought " there must be a veil blocking my perception"


* Note: personally I dont give importance to Maya concept cos it drags you away from God if you pay it attention.
Honestly this is where Advaitins waste their time!
The Dvaitins and Vishisthadvaitins spend their time focussing on God only but Advaitins keep pondering on Maya( Mayavadin)

Do you see how futile it is to keep talking about Maya?
What do you gain from this?

Life is short Sravna..Nahi Nahi Rakshatin Dukren Karane.

Give it up! Give up all this Maya talk.
Sync yourself with Reality.
There is none but It.

 

[renuka]

Maya panchakam does explaim the functions and futility of Maya.

Maya Panchakam

Maya which is skilful in accomplishing the impossible brings about the distinctions of the world Euvara, and jeva in my consciousness, which is unique and eternal, partless and impartite, and which is free from all distinctions

www.kamakoti.org

 

[sravna]

Renuka

Maya should be the real focus because the world is due to maya. So we have to decode maya to understand the world. Don't you spend all your time and energy on causes of a problem and how to solve it. The fundamental cause is maya and so one needs to decode it to the extent and scope of space and time.

We cannot wish maya away. She is behind everything in this world. So we better give her the preeminent place that she deserves.

 

[renuka]

Renuka

Maya should be the real focus because the world is due to maya. So we have to decode maya to understand the world. Don't you spend all your time and energy on causes of a problem and how to solve it. The fundamental cause is maya and so one needs to decode it to the extent and scope of space and time.

We cannot wish maya away. She is behind everything in this world. So we better give her the preeminent place that she deserves.

Yes, you can go beyond Maya.
When we focus on God we develop Eka Gratha( Mindfulness- Oneness).
Then the whole system starts to get rewired and auto correction takes place within us.

Eventually we start to sync with the Divine and we function in the " I am not the doer mode"which spells loss of free will and no accumulation of new Karma.
Only the prarabdha functions till it exhaust itself.

The whole sync didnt need even any knowledge about Maya.
Maya is the veil that prevents us from syncing as in surrendering to.God.

So personally I do understand that Maya is the creative power of Brahman that made existence manifest.
On its own it does not have a separate existence..its merely a projection of a movie from Brahman...illusion is when the mind is attached to the movie and gets conditioned by it instead of being a mere witness who experiences the movie yet does not get affected by it knowing its transient and subject to change.

So why would I want to waste time on a transient movie..instead I can get to know the Director who is the ONLY unchanging Reality.

Giving Maya Her preeminent place is the actual name of the Game of Ilusion.

 

[sravna]

Renuka

Answer me this question? If maya is to be ignored what is the purpose of the force in reality? Why does God use maya as you put it? God uses anything only for begetting good sooner or later. Don't you think so? In that case don't you think the purpose of maya is also eventually doing good? God needs that power. How did saguna brahman get maya from. The only reality before Him is nirguna brahman. So Maya has to be inhering in nirguna brahman but in a compatible way and in an experience of oneness.

Able to see Renuka?

 

[sravna]

Yes, you can go beyond Maya.
When we focus on God we develop Eka Gratha( Mindfulness- Oneness).
Then the whole system starts to get rewired and auto correction takes place within us.

Eventually we start to sync with the Divine and we function in the " I am not the doer mode"which spells loss of free will and no accumulation of new Karma.
Only the prarabdha functions till it exhaust itself.

The whole sync didnt need even any knowledge about Maya.
Maya is the veil that prevents us from syncing as in surrendering to.God.

So personally I do understand that Maya is the creative power of Brahman that made existence manifest.
On its own it does not have a separate existence..its merely a projection of a movie from Brahman...illusion is when the mind is attached to the movie and gets conditioned by it instead of being a mere witness who experiences the movie yet does not get affected by it knowing its transient and subject to change.

So why would I want to waste time on a transient movie..instead I can get to know the Director who is the ONLY unchanging Reality.

Giving Maya Her preeminent place is the actual name of the Game of Ilusion.

Renuka

You are making assertions even if it is from vedanta. I am talking logic. Think about it

 

[renuka]

Renuka

Answer me this question? If maya is to be ignored what is the purpose of the force in reality? Why does God use maya as you put it? God uses anything only for begetting good sooner or later. Don't you think so? In that case don't you think the purpose of maya is also eventually doing good? God needs that power. How did saguna brahman get maya from. The only reality before Him is nirguna brahman. So Maya has to be inhering in nirguna brahman but in a compatible way and in an experience of oneness.

Able to see Renuka?

I had used the word " go beyond Maya"
When we ignore something we actually subconsciously focus on it.

Maya isnt bad,its the power of manifesting existence...but its this very enchanting existence which tosses us up and down in the ocean of existence.

Its like an amusement park which has house of fun games and house of horrors and you get addicted to it.

Btw Sravna, Maya is the projection of Nirguna Brahman and not Saguna Brahman.

Will give an example, gravity exists..do I know much about it?
Nope!
But knowing it or not knowing it does not mean it wont work on me and let me walk on the earth.

A person who has Diabetes need not go to medical school to attain a good glycemic control.
All he has to do is adhere to the advise of the doctor,make lifestyle changes, take his meds etc.

Likewise..why do I need to know about Maya?
All I know is its exists and I too am under its spell and my Sadhana is my medication to go beyond its spell.

 

[renuka]

Renuka

You are making assertions even if it is from vedanta. I am talking logic. Think about it

So Vedanta isnt logic?

 

[sravna]

I had used the word " go beyond Maya"
When we ignore something we actually subconsciously focus on it.

Maya isnt bad,its the power of manifesting existence...but its this very enchanting existence which tosses us up and down in the ocean of existence.

Its like an amusement park which has house of fun games and house of horrors and you get addicted to it.

Btw Sravna, Maya is the projection of Nirguna Brahman and not Saguna Brahman.

Will give an example, gravity exists..do I know much about it?
Nope!
But knowing it or not knowing it does not mean it wont work on me and let me walk on the earth.

A person who has Diabetes need not go to medical school to attain a good glycemic control.
All he has to do is adhere to the advise of the doctor,make lifestyle changes, take his meds etc.

Likewise..why do I need to know about Maya?
All I know is its exists and I too am under its spell and my Sadhana is my medication to go beyond its spell.

Ok you agree it a spell and you need to overcome it. What happens after you come out of it? A better and wiser person? Yes I would think. So wasn't maya actually helping you learn by making you come under its spell? That is the point I am trying to make.

 

[sravna]

So Vedanta isnt logic?

It is but is very subtle logic. You need to read a lot between lines and is open to many interpretations. I try to piece it together in the most consistent way.

 

[sravna]

One more point. The very fact you are learning and evolving means you are decoding maya.

 

[renuka]

Ok you agree it a spell and you need to overcome it. What happens after you come out of it? A better and wiser person? Yes I would think. So wasn't maya actually helping you learn by making you come under its spell? That is the point I am trying to make.

What happens if I ever go beyond it is UNKNOWN.
But it doesnt bother me because in the Gita itself Krishna says clearly to surrender to.Him and He will deliver you from everything.

So why do we have to mentally drown in Maya when the Lord is giving a hand to guide us.

Maya is the obstacle..we learn how to get out of it but we need not elevate the obstacle beyond it.

For eg a person with Dementia is not easy to handle, one needs to be patient and not be in the picture and just focus on helping the person with Dementia.

What do we learn from this? To be patient, detached and compassionate etc.
So Dementia became a " teacher" here but would I say " O Dementia, Thou art illuminator of the minds of those who care for the people affected by it..I need to give you Your due respect and place you on a pedestal"

Same with Maya..No need to Glorify it.
Its just a shadow of Brahman, Why glorify a shadow when I have the option to Glorify God.
Maya wont deliver me from anything.

Sravna, its a dangerous path to thread if one want to decode Maya.
I wont want to go down that path.

 

[renuka]

One more point. The very fact you are learning and evolving means you are decoding maya.

I dont evolve.
None of us do in terms of spirituality.
Its just that we gain clarity.

 

[renuka]

It is but is very subtle logic. You need to read a lot between lines and is open to many interpretations. I try to piece it together in the most consistent way.

I dont subscribe to Vedanta as my Sadhana.
I do like the philosophy though but beyond that I dont subscribe to it.
My focus is God and just Be!

 

[sravna]

Ok. Vices are considered immoral. But in the right context they are to be enacted just as Krishna did. They are greater than even virtuous acts.

In a similar way maya seems to be an obstacle to our straightforward vision. But the real purpose of the obstacle is to make you rise. So in the higher scheme of things it is actually a facilitator.

 

[sravna]

I dont evolve.
None of us do in terms of spirituality.
Its just that we gain clarity.

Ok. I agree

 

[sravna]

I dont subscribe to Vedanta as my Sadhana.
I do like the philosophy though but beyond that I dont subscribe to it.
My focus is God and just Be!

But Renuka you mainly quote Vedanta to make your points.