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Medicine admissions in India = donation

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Hi all,
Some may remember when I raised this question and was wondering how much doctors make & ROI - there were some surprised responses (also helpful ones). I saw this artcile today in TOI and thought the information may be useful. For UG, the donation requested was 20 lakhs. Now, I find out that to get a PG seat you may have to fork out 1.5 to 2 crores. Based on a projected income of 15lakhs/annum, it seems you can get the money back in 12 - 15 years - which is not great??
Your thoughts?
In Navi Mumbai, a PG med seat costs Rs 1.7cr - The Times of India
reproduced below for easy reference:
=====================================================================================================
MUMBAI: A postgraduate radiology seat in a private medical college in Navi Mumbai has sold for Rs 1.7 crore. The capitation fee is a 40% increase over last year and indicates a shift in the preferences of medical students, with subjects like radiology and orthopaedics overtaking favourites like paediatrics and gynaecology. While the medical fraternity is shocked at the transaction, and also concerned about the quality of doctors emerging from such deals, it feels helpless in the face of private colleges' autonomy.

Doctors said the sale, along with another of Rs 1.3 crore, indicated a trend that medical students want to earn a quick buck-a radiologist starts in practice with earnings ranging from Rs 1-15 lakh a month, depending on the location of his or her diagnostic centre, equipment and clientele.

Also, demand clearly outstrips supply by a huge number.

In the Mumbai-Navi Mumbai belt, there are just 22 radiology seats in government medical colleges and half that in private colleges for thousands of aspirants. In orthopaedics and gynaecology, the numbers of government seats are 36 and 26.

The scarcity is pervasive, with over 10,000 postgraduate aspirants fighting for little over 1,100 government seats across the state. Of these, only 250 seats belong to trendy subjects. "The dearth of postgraduate government seats is mainly to blame for seat sale by private colleges," said Dr Farhan Hamid, general secretary, Maharashtra Association of Resident Doctors.

Pravin Shingare of the Directorate of Medical Education and Research (DMER) denied knowledge of the seat sale. Nevertheless, he said the demand for private seats had skyrocketed because of a dearth of government seats. "Government colleges are losing out on postgraduate seats for want of teachers (a decade ago, the state had 1,900 postgraduate seats). We are looking at the problem."

He said subjects like radiology and orthopaedics were the most preferred because "medical practice today is strictly evidence-based as opposed to being clinical-based till a few years ago".

Kishor Taori, a former president of the All India Radiological and Imaging Association, said radiology is the youngest branch of medicine and also the most advanced. "Radiology has gone to the level of becoming an industry. Today, several radiologists are coming together to start their own diagnostic centres to compete with corporate hospitals."

A doctor said that with interventional radiology replacing many conventional surgical approaches, radiologists could soon become primary clinicians.

Over the years, subjects like general medicine and surgery have gone down the ladder of preferences also because these branches need further specialization for doctors to make the most of them. It all came to a head recently, when a student of anaesthesiology at the civic-run Sion Hospital committed suicide after failing to get a seat in paediatrics.

"The competition is more ruthless when it comes to super-specialty seats," said a senior state official. Medical students say the price tag of private seats in courses like neurology, gastroenterology, cardiology and nephrology is as much as Rs 2 crore.

To curb this grey area in medical education, a single entrance test can go a long way, said Dr KS Sharma, a member of the board of governors of the Medical Council of India (MCI). "Donations could be a reality, but as regulators, there is little we can do. The commercial exploitation of medical education is a fallout of awarding private licences or deemed university status to several colleges. They are autonomous and have their own strategies."

Medical college professors say it is high time the government stopped the sale of seats. A senior professor from JJ Hospital said: "It is scary to think of the means a doctor would adopt to recover the donation amount from society."
 
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The problem in Maharashtra is that the private medical colleges are owned by ministers/politicians, So, no action whatsoever will be taken. The very same politicians do not allow increase of medical seats in government-run colleges. I think it is high time Anna Hazare turned his attention to this malpractice. Incidentally the cost of medical treatment in Mumbai is very high.
 
Actually the sheer population is presenting the problem. If you go round the student communities you will hardly find takers for medicine. To be frank, the medical profession itself is sulking at its prospects. The population has become health conscious and dread to go to doctor for fear of being 'machined'. It maybe different in rural areas, but the "Red Cross" boards puts off people.
 
studying abroad is a bood option provided one has the capacity to do so and spend the required time for the paperwork and other formalities. it is not as easy as one thinks but the results are usually near to a 100 times more fruitful
i am a recently graduated mbbs students. i got in through merit seat yet had to pay close to 20 lakhs to complete my mbbs because i studied at a private medical college in Kerala. i am now preparing to write MRCPCH and USMLE exams. if successful, i can complete PG training for almost less than half the amount i spent for mbbs.
people in india with queries regarding usmle can contact me if needed.
 
studying abroad is a bood option provided one has the capacity to do so and spend the required time for the paperwork and other formalities. it is not as easy as one thinks but the results are usually near to a 100 times more fruitful
i am a recently graduated mbbs students. i got in through merit seat yet had to pay close to 20 lakhs to complete my mbbs because i studied at a private medical college in Kerala. i am now preparing to write MRCPCH and USMLE exams. if successful, i can complete PG training for almost less than half the amount i spent for mbbs.
people in india with queries regarding usmle can contact me if needed.

congrats and best wishes venks.

i was told that if you get admitted in sri ramachandra medical college in chennai, you need to have a car/driver standby.

i dont know how much of it is true, but then my contact gave me the figures - same as yours - if you can afford 20 lakhs for mbbs, you can certainly afford another 2 lakhs for the car.

the car standby is to ensure students are present at the odd hours when medical emergencies apparently arise. and long hours of classes :)

no parties.
 
studying abroad is a bood option provided one has the capacity to do so and spend the required time for the paperwork and other formalities. it is not as easy as one thinks but the results are usually near to a 100 times more fruitful
i am a recently graduated mbbs students. i got in through merit seat yet had to pay close to 20 lakhs to complete my mbbs because i studied at a private medical college in Kerala. i am now preparing to write MRCPCH and USMLE exams. if successful, i can complete PG training for almost less than half the amount i spent for mbbs.
people in india with queries regarding usmle can contact me if needed.
hi
my daughter got amission MD/MS programme purely on merit without a single penny expenditure...its prestigious university in

USA....its USMD dual programme...even MD/PhD programme is penniless expenditure...if you are bright/US citizen....many asian

students studying including chineese.....thank GOD ...no SC/ST reservation policy in USA.....only good scores in GPA/MCAT

are eligible.....but its tough and stressful programmes....many tambrams children are doing good in USMD programmes...


regards
tbs
 
hi
my daughter got amission MD/MS programme purely on merit without a single penny expenditure...its prestigious university in

USA....its USMD dual programme...even MD/PhD programme is penniless expenditure...if you are bright/US citizen....many asian

students studying including chineese.....thank GOD ...no SC/ST reservation policy in USA.....only good scores in GPA/MCAT

are eligible.....but its tough and stressful programmes....many tambrams children are doing good in USMD programmes...


regards
tbs

tbs,

while i am very happy for your daughter's achievements, i was dismayed by your '.thank .....'GOD ...no SC/ST reservation policy in USA...

with this type of exclusivity, as i see it, compounded by not one iota of introspection of the injustices perpetrated in the name of sanatana dharma (which i think should read adharma as that has been practised by upper castes including tambrams), i did not feel there was any hope or future for hinduism or for india.

personally, i think, and have mentioned long ago, usa or singapore is the best place for current day tambrams, especially with attitudes like yours. the only redeeming feature of migrating to usa, is that our children see through the hypocracy of us tambrams, and do not subscribe to it under any duress. our leverage over our children in the usa is zero, and when we talk nonsense like superiority of the brahmins or '.thank GOD ...no SC/ST reservation policy in USA.....' they can see through our double standards and hypocracy.

but guess what? almost immediately i received another email. this from a childhood friend in chennai. her only child and daughter, a tambram, is marrying a chettiar. that cheered me up, and made me rethink - there is hope after all, to india, to hinduism, once folks with rigid caste attitudes especially tambrams all emigrate.

maybe our single tambram girls know a thing or two, which they can teach their parents or the bachelor boys.
 
tbs,

while i am very happy for your daughter's achievements, i was dismayed by your '.thank .....'GOD ...no SC/ST reservation policy in USA...

with this type of exclusivity, as i see it, compounded by not one iota of introspection of the injustices perpetrated in the name of sanatana dharma (which i think should read adharma as that has been practised by upper castes including tambrams), i did not feel there was any hope or future for hinduism or for india.

personally, i think, and have mentioned long ago, usa or singapore is the best place for current day tambrams, especially with attitudes like yours. the only redeeming feature of migrating to usa, is that our children see through the hypocracy of us tambrams, and do not subscribe to it under any duress. our leverage over our children in the usa is zero, and when we talk nonsense like superiority of the brahmins or '.thank GOD ...no SC/ST reservation policy in USA.....' they can see through our double standards and hypocracy.

but guess what? almost immediately i received another email. this from a childhood friend in chennai. her only child and daughter, a tambram, is marrying a chettiar. that cheered me up, and made me rethink - there is hope after all, to india, to hinduism, once folks with rigid caste attitudes especially tambrams all emigrate.

maybe our single tambram girls know a thing or two, which they can teach their parents or the bachelor boys.
hi K sir,
thank u for ur compliments....anyway im a consevative tambram...may not be liberal like u or others...but i dont have any problen..

i like sowbhagyavathi Renu's interest in hinduism....even though she is not tambram....but she is more than a tambram....i disagree

with her many things......i dont like certain system...i adopted USA..becoz it gives me freedom of my religion/conservative

tambram in my personal.....here ONLY MERIT SPEAKS......not my religion/caste....so i said THANK GOD....NO SC/ST RESERVATION

POLICY IN USA......my 2 cents....


regards
tbs
 
hi
my daughter got amission MD/MS programme purely on merit without a single penny expenditure...its prestigious university in

USA....its USMD dual programme...
Congratulations! What is USMD programme?

thank GOD ...no reservation policy in USA....
I support a "reservation" policy as long as the total reservation quota is less than 25%. I do not support reservation based on caste/religion/gender etc. I support reservation for children of defence service personnel (specifically to those who got injured or gave up their lives), sports etc.
 
tbs,

thank you for your honest and frank reply.

to confess, even though you term me as 'liberal', i do not have any label on myself. just maybe, prone to introspection, and to think in terms
of absolutes, especially when it comes to injustices.

many a times, i try to reverse the roles, of folks in india, whose birth may not be as fortunate as mine - castewise, socio economic wise and
above all a fond family.

spending summers in north malabar, i had a taste of the intensity of the cruelties of caste systems, including the sight of beautiful thotti
women picking up feces buckets from our household, their hands covered with rag cloth - no gloves or such. my grandma used to let
the coins drop from atleast a foot, which used to be gratefully accepted, and always a pleasant smile for me, a 6 year old youngster from
the city!

also i happen to grow up in a catholic neighbourhood, the majority being anglo indians. i accepted them as they are, and when during my
iit days, when we went on a bus trip, my north indian colleagues, shouted 'dingo dingo' epithets at the anglo indian girls, and while many
of them just smiled, the others had a flash of anger. i did not know such insults against my growing up friends, and later on when i
learnt about insults to tambrams in tamilnadu, or indians in canada, i am prone to see that our own hands and hearts are soiled too.

i speak this with more sorrow than any guilt. personally i may be absolve myself, but i think, we all are inheritors of traditions with long
racial memories. hence my intense reactions at certain topics and posts.

so, i hope you forgive me for that.

once again, i wish your daughter the best in her MDPhd program. these are not easy to get, and that is putting it mildly. for our indian
members, MDPhD is more difficult to get than in IITs, and the intensity and demand is about 100 times higher - this coming from an
IITian and whose sons went to Univ of Chicago, MDPhD.

God Bless.
 
dear K sir,
thank u for ur kind words.....even i brought up in palakkad gramam and lived with santhome /mylapore area.....i used to go to

santhome church for christmas/new year mass too in my child hood...even i attended mid night new year mass in santhome church/

early morning new year pooja in kapaleeshwarar temple in mylapore....still i feel im more conservative....sorry for that...

im not eligible to forgive u....just my views....i like vaadam very much....like naiyayikas...means logicians....but i hate vidanta

vaadam in the name god/religion/caste.......i like thayir saadam very much.....it may not like many ppl....but i cant change others...

even i cant change my thayir saadam for others....my 2 cents....


regards
tbs
 
Congratulations! What is USMD programme?


I support a "reservation" policy as long as the total reservation quota is less than 25%. I do not support reservation based on caste/religion/gender etc. I support reservation for children of defence service personnel (specifically to those who got injured or gave up their lives), sports etc.
hi sir,
USMD means....MD programme of USA...in the field of medicine.....im an ex service man....retired defence service personnel too...

just for ur info


regards
tbs
 
USMD means....MD programme of USA...in the field of medicine....
Very difficult to get in. I don't understand why they make it so difficult.
My son is doing medicine in Oz. Comparatively, easier to get in (for undergraduate programs - most competitive - come within the top 0.2% of the state/national rank & do well in interviews)
im an ex service man....retired defence service personnel too...
Sir,
Good to know that & also that some ex service men still like thair sadham (like most TB).
Regards
 
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kirukku,

most medical schools are 'easy' to get in.

there are certain schools in the usa which have a prestige and more students apply.

the MD PhD program is a medical doctor doctorate programe. at the end of 8 years or so, of intense study and research, you get your phd along with your medical degree.

it is attuned more towards medical research, than making money. atleast that's what i know, and i live in canada, not in the usa.

others in the usa may give a better explanation.
 
I thank the people who contributed posts 5, 7 and 15. Informative and eye-opening.

Selling education is a shame. One pays the party leader to get a seat to contest election with the hope that one can "make" it during one's tenure. Should the same be applied to education? Sad state of affairs.
 
hi
my daughter got amission MD/MS programme purely on merit without a single penny expenditure...its prestigious university in

USA....its USMD dual programme...even MD/PhD programme is penniless expenditure...if you are bright/US citizen....many asian

students studying including chineese.....thank GOD ...no SC/ST reservation policy in USA.....only good scores in GPA/MCAT

are eligible.....but its tough and stressful programmes....many tambrams children are doing good in USMD programmes...


regards
tbs

I broadly agree. However there is affirmative action. What do you think of affirmative action, I am curious?

Also, after MD admission don't you have to pay > $150K in tution fees? An honest question from my side.
 
hi b sir,
yes there is an affirmative action...but some private universities like harward/yale and other ivy league.... the rules are very common to

all....i saw in MD/ph.d the whole tution fees are waived in some cases......$150K for some colleges without waiver.....depends upon

income/other criterias....like FAFSA/ and other grants hepful for students....MCAT/other GPA merits are very important...


regards
tbs
 
hi b sir,
yes there is an affirmative action...but some private universities like harward/yale and other ivy league.... the rules are very common to

all....i saw in MD/ph.d the whole tution fees are waived in some cases......$150K for some colleges without waiver.....depends upon

income/other criterias....like FAFSA/ and other grants hepful for students....MCAT/other GPA merits are very important...


regards
tbs

Hello tbs sir,

I see your daughter has got into a very good college on the basis of her strong merit. Congratulations!

Biswa
 
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