Medicine as a career choice for TB

[kiruku]

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Hi,
I saw in another thread a mention that "our boys" do not choose medicine as a career anymore (from India).
Things are not very clear to me in this area.
I know it is easy to get into IT by doing anything and you can make a lot of money in India compared to medicine. But then, I see a lot of people prepared to pay Rs. 20 lakhs + to get admission in to a medical college. In my last trip, I met a retired medical professor, who said that he was commericaly hopeless - yet he seemed to have a thriving a practice and his son & daughter-in-law were working with him and he had knocked down the waiting room to build a car port. His complaint seemed to be that his colleagues were buying towns when he could buy only houses!
In US, I think medicine is very much in demand and pays very well.
Interested in kowning your thoughts on the topic.
Should our children pursue medicine - is it a commercialy viable option?
I also understand that it is a family business. For those, whose parents are not doctors, is it still an attractive option?
Cheers

 

[RVR]

Hi,
I saw in another thread a mention that "our boys" do not choose medicine as a career anymore (from India).
Things are not very clear to me in this area.
I know it is easy to get into IT by doing anything and you can make a lot of money in India compared to medicine. But then, I see a lot of people prepared to pay Rs. 20 lakhs + to get admission in to a medical college. In my last trip, I met a retired medical professor, who said that he was commericaly hopeless - yet he seemed to have a thriving a practice and his son & daughter-in-law were working with him and he had knocked down the waiting room to build a car port. His complaint seemed to be that his colleagues were buying towns when he could buy only houses!
In US, I think medicine is very much in demand and pays very well.
Interested in kowning your thoughts on the topic.
Should our children pursue medicine - is it a commercialy viable option?
I also understand that it is a family business. For those, whose parents are not doctors, is it still an attractive option?
Cheers

First of all basic medical degree ( MBBS) takes almost six and half years including one year house surgeon training.

Getting admission to MBBS through open quota is not a problem.

But just MBBS is not sufficient nowadays. One has to do post graduation to succeed in the profession

Availability of seats in PG courses is next to impossible as the number of seats available is very low.

Our community candidates are invariably denied surgery courses (MS) and are forced to take up physician level courses(MD) only. Even here they are pushed to some periphery courses which are less lucrative.

This has resulted in our boys and girls avoiding medical courses completely.

Information Technology, BPO, Call centers, Financial services are attracting our younger generation more. They avoid reservations completely both at education and employment fields. Chances of migrating to foreign countries are also high in these field.

Our mind set is basically "avoid conflicts and grab opportunities".

Except few students whose parents are medical professionals, rest are avoiding it completely.

This is the ground situation in Tamilnadu

All the best

 

[sangom]

I fully agree with RVR's observations. In addition to all those, a person has to prove his or her கைராசி if some good earnings are to flow in. Then comes the unholy nexus between medicine companies on the one side and laboratories/scan centres on the other. If one is not skilful in handling these two major accomplices, or is principled enough not to tread the somewhat adharmic path, his career will get doomed. The last straw is the threat of legal proceedings for mistakes and perceived mistakes.

And you cannot normally correct corrupt nurses or attendants in a govt. hospital because of their strong trade unions and the backing from politicians.

Who will then take up medicine as career when one can get established in IT sector with a reasonably high salary (and family) and a lot of peace of mind, without practically any danger of legal proceedings being filed against him, even if one has to work really hard and meet the ever-recurring deadlines in the IT sector?

 

[kunjuppu]

i thought going to medicine was a matter of vocation and interest, either or both.

it is surprising, and i do not mean it in a bad way, talking of studying medicine regarded as a commercial proposition.

to be true, it is also the same in the canada, where medicine is highly coveted, but the admission process is still transparent on the whole.

a surprising number of TBs youths i know here have gone for medicine. ofcourse, the corollary also appears true. do indeed move upto a specialist degree.

of late, due to paucity of medical seats in canada, a significant number of desi parents send their children to desi managed medical schools in the caribbean. these have 4 year programs, with two years in the island, and the balance 2 years already set up in the u.s.a. so the kids not only get a medical degree, but also a straight entry to u.s.

desi parents interested, can google, under, medical schools in caribbean, and come up with several hits. the old soviet bloc countries and phillipines also have medical schools for north americans.

costwise i am told, taking all sorts of fees into account, they are comparable to medical colleges in india. the good ones.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Medicine as a carrier is difficult path to tread compared to Software specially for TB. With this policy of reservation most of us will not get into MBBS in Government colleges The current seat in Private colleges invites between 25 to 30 lakhs capitation and with MBBS you cannot stop. You have to go for PG. My sisters grand daughter was Olympiad Bronze Medalist in Biology But could not get into medicine though she was very much interested. She was called for counseling in CMC vellore But the date clashed with Olympiad and she had to go to Russia on that day which she opted for. With this medal in her pocket she can pursue Biology any where in the world with full fee waiver and scholarship She jointed BITS Pilani dual degree with biology and now doing PhD. in US with full assistance she is around 24.Compare this with another Girl Who could get in to Government Medical in the Backward List She has finished MBBS 2 year ago But could not get into PG because there is one more Quota reservation for PG. 60% of seats for Service candidates and only 40 % is available for others. Rate (Capitation) for PG in Private Medical colleges is still higher around 80 Lakhs So this Girl is again preparing for PG entrance even after completing MBBS 2 years ago. If she had chosen Software probably she would be now with Infosys or Wipro directly from the Campus This exactly is the reason You have more than 6 Medical colleges in a small place like Pondichery One of my class mate who teaches in one of this college tells me that the administration pays for the patients to be admitted in their hospital for case demonstration. since there is no clinical material.Actually there are more students than patients! The same patient goes about being admitted in all these medical one by one and earns his livelihood. Like Blood donors doing that in Blood Bank in my college days

This year the first medical seat went to a girl who got a medal in Karate and the 2nd to her relative for the same reason in sports quota . Do you want a doctor who gets into the profession because of Karate or one with medal in Olympiad? Olympiad is not a sport but for academic excellence Jambu:mad2:

 

[RVR]

DR Jambu sir,

I was expecting your reply like this. Since you have first hand experience, you know better than all of us.

But quality of the profession is going down very badly.

I am seeing at Sundaram Medical Foundation (TVS group hospital) most of the specilists are from Mangalore side. Sankara Nethralaya has mostly bengalis.

Since local talent is not available, they are going for other states.

I am unable to imagine the situation in Govt hospitals.

God alone can save this state.

All the best

 

[kiruku]

The current seat in Private colleges invites between 25 to 30 lakhs capitation and with MBBS you cannot stop. You have to go for PG. Rate (Capitation) for PG in Private Medical colleges is still higher around 80 Lakhs

Thanks for your response. So, that is an investment of Rs. 110 lakhs. My question is that unless the people are getting more than sufficient returns for that investment (I am ignoring all other costs & time invested), why would anyone be prepared (& I am hearing people are) to pay that kind of money?
I was discussing this topic with my close friend's wife (from India) over the phone. Their daughter wants to do medicine and she was baulking at the amount (she told me that they are demanding Rs. 80 lakhs for a very repuable college). I told her that may be they will get a good return after graduating or am alternative could be to do it overseas for that kind of money (where she can choose to settle down later if she wants). I am waiting to see what their decision was.

 

[kiruku]

i thought going to medicine was a matter of vocation and interest, either or both.

it is surprising, and i do not mean it in a bad way, talking of studying medicine regarded as a commercial proposition.

Sir, I hope the amount of money being discussed here answers your question as to why the commercial angle can not be ignored.

to be true, it is also the same in the canada, where medicine is highly coveted, but the admission process is still transparent on the whole.

a surprising number of TBs youths i know here have gone for medicine. ofcourse, the corollary also appears true. do indeed move upto a specialist degree.

In Australia, the specialist is mandatory and so, it may take a person a minimum of 13 years to specialise from the time one starts their MBBS. Getting into very lucrative specialities is difficult not impossible. And it is a very coveted profession here.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

A family of Canadian (Sri Lanaka Tamil origin Mother and 3 children ) are my neighbors They are here for the education. Children are in schools. The eldest could not make the grades in 10th and was not happy continuing here He went back last here itself The father is in Canada The second finished his 10th this April and she is not happy about the out come of her living here for the past 5years and they have gone back They left on June 1. Her sisters children one girl and one boy are in Medicals here The Girl is in Salem in private medical college after paying the Capitation of 30 lakhs paid in dollars (Non residents quota where rupee payment not accepted) and her brother joined this year in a medical collage in Trichy and he is not happy and he is back now in Canada I am sure these fellows would not have repaid even a fraction of the money they got from him. Avoid this this situation like Plague .கனி is in contact with us and we communicate.இக்கரைக்கு அக்கரை பச்சை .

About this I was talking to my friend who teaches in one of the medical colleges in Pondicherry. What he told me was really shocking . The administration will handle this & can manipulate this beautifully. It is all for money He can come for the examintion pass the exam with high grades and go back with out attending the collage! Has this really happened I asked? I do not know But the possibility could not be ruled out is his answer. You must have seen in yesterdays news crores of rupees found in various places of பங்காரு அடிகள் who runs medical institution. This is all because of parental anxieties to see their children through Medical college some how.Jambu:attention:

 

[srikrish85]

Well... what about Homoeopathy and other forms of medicinal courses... Why our people are not choosing them? I see only a few persons in the Homoeopathy and others... I think the English Medicine has a great fad...

Why I am saying this is... because my dad got cured of migraine completely in Homeo when the English doc... said to him, "You have to live with that"...!!!

My bro got cured of cervical disk prolapse thro' homeo and varmakkalai, which the English medicine couldn't accomplish.

 

[RVR]

Alternative systems of medicine like Homeo, Ayurvedam, unani etc are not that much popular and hence the attraction is less

All the best

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Well... what about Homoeopathy and other forms of medicinal courses... Why our people are not choosing them? I see only a few persons in the Homoeopathy and others... I think the English Medicine has a great fad...

Why I am saying this is... because my dad got cured of migraine completely in Homeo when the English doc... said to him, "You have to live with that"...!!!

My bro got cured of cervical disk prolapse thro' homeo and varmakkalai, which the English medicine couldn't accomplish.

This is all fine. Tell me honestly How many of us cosult Homeopaths at the first instance? When you are faced with a situation when you have no improvement with steroid and antibiotics you consult them Sort of எத்த தின்னா பித்தம் தெளியும் attempt . Suggest these courses to any aspiring student to become doctor and see their reactions Jambu:boink:

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Kiruku,

Some points reg medical admissions based on caste:

a) Separate categories based on caste exist, but there is hardly any diff in the cut-off marks for each of them. Ex: In 1992, the cut-off marks required for MBBS admission in Agricultural Uni, Coimbatore was 95.22% for open competition and 93.18% for Backward Castes (BCs). Over the years the cut-off marks for both categories have been similarly comparable. I do not think the so-called BCs wud be affected if their “BC category” was removed. In fact they wud have benefitted.

b) Nadars (wisely) asked to be removed from reservations list because with caste-reservations they can only get limited seats. These seats are not enuf for the large number of their well-scoring candidates. By removing reservations, they are able to compete for more number of seats in the open category.

c) If reservations are required, then it is for SCs and STs; and that also based on annual income. Apart from the annual income scenario, i do not think anyone else requires reservations. Imo, reservation lists for BC, MBC, OBC are useless and only help those who manipulate the system from the management quota arena.

The largest (sometimes 50% seats) is allotted to the management quota. Admission depends on the discretion of the management committee of that particular institution. I always found this quota dubious. A tiny group gets to decide admissions; and their system is not transparent. See some management quota allotments here: THE GREAT QUOTA DEBATE: Management quota - official facts which you must know.

In 1995, I remember someone got 72% in the tamilnadu entrance, and yet got MBBS admission in the management category bcoz she belonged to the MBC category. In my time, these management quota guys used to manipulate the system badly. They claimed admission depends on caste (they are supposed to give admission based on minority status and all that, with some on merit and some on donations), but all the management quota seats are given to those who can pay massive donations (to ppl from certain caste groups and minority groups).

So to get admision in management quota, you must belong to a particular caste (which is listed as BC, MBC, OBC, and so on in the reservations list), plus pay donations and higher fees. These are the guys who actually used to cause the caste angst and donations angst. Am told all private colleges today run on this scenario. Ony thing is they now do not care about reservations. Only money speaks. If you have money, you pay and study, that's all.

Ridiculously, seats are limited and Institutions have high amount of fees / donations. Wonder why they do not invest in larger facilities, increase number of seats and reduce the amount of fees. This is where government policies should come in.

Caste and Management quota apart, you have ‘handicapped quota’ for handicapped people, sports quota for sportsmen (usually those who represent their state at national level competitions), defense quota for children of parent(s) who serve in defense establishments, and so on. But all these are very small quotas, usually about 1 or 2 seats under each category.

Quotas apart, the main point i think is the finance. In my students days, most parents wud tell their kids ‘if u cannot get admission in open category forget it’. Middle class parents wud rather buy a house and invest in something with better returns. That holds true even today.

Please note 80 lakhs for a reputed private college is a good deal. About 15-20 years back it was about 40-60 lakhs. And even then, i know a guy who paid 70 lakhs for a MBBS admission (his dad owns a large hospital, that’s why). He was no good in school, but put in solid effort in MBBS and later studied cleared PLAB to study in the UK.

There are separate quotas / reservations in almost all institutions (including top ones like AIIMS) for Residents and NR Indians. Fees in medical schools can vary across states. Fees for NRI quota varies across institutions within the same state. The latest I hear is of ppl who go to the US to do medicine since they found NRI fees in India is higher!

And ofcourse MBBS is not enuf. For MD / MS, number of seats are extremely limited. For MD cardiology I remember there were (and still are) just 2 seats in one reputed medical college in Chennai. Often those who complete post-graduation go overseas. I think this is true of everyone irrespective of tamil, telugu, malayalam, etc. Practically everyone I know who did post-graduation in the past 10 years have either cleared PLAB (for UK) or USMLE (for USA) to study and work there, or have gone to the gulf. There sure is a big dearth of local doctors. Ever since the option to complete UK degrees like MRCP, FRCS, in select fields are now available in India itself, cometition for them has increased. Indians clear this and yet they go to USA, european countries, Australia, Malaysia, etc. So you see Indian doctors are not all that incompetant.

If you are specifically looking for admission for someone known, getting info over forums may not be the right thing to do. A member here is a specialist at portraying a victimized attitude of our people not getting stuff (when it comes to reservations, please note its the same story for everyone who does not get reservations and does not have money to study). This member also gets to decide what are ‘relevant’ topics and non-relevant ones; who is a fraud and who is not; choosing if certain institutions are powerful or powerlessness and so on….Imo, chatting up on a media that encourages selective type of info is great for chatting, getting a feel of community opinion versus public opinion and so on….however for actual info on admission you need to search online yourself, or have local contacts to proceed.

Each state has its own separate entrance test for MBBS, such as Maharastra CET, Karnataka CET, Andhra Pradesh EAMCET, Delhi University DUMET, Punjab PMET, and so on. Candidates can also appear for a separate exam conducted by AIIMS if s/he wants to study there. In addition, each individual institution (like CMC-Vellore, CMC-Ludhiana, Pondicherry JIPMER, etc) also have their own individual entrance exams. You will need to search online for admission details for each of these colleges. Example for AIIMS: http://www.aiimsexams.org/AIIMS Prospectus final.pdf Or you can get one-stop info on medical entrance to various institutions from commercial websites such as: Medindia - Education - Medical Admissions in India - Online Payment (in USD) and this: Medindia - Education - Medical Admissions in India - Online Payment (in INR).

You may also check the colleges in this lists - do take note of the MCI recognition - not all are recognized by the Medical Council of India (MCI): http://www.medindia.net/education/PGDegree.asp

This is my 2nd last post on this forum. I will not be logging in here from tonight. So there won't be further replies from me. I made this post coz it caught my eye and thot it better that you get the right leads for seeking admission (for your wife's friend's daughter as you have mentioned). I have requested Praveen to delete all my posts which will be done soon. So if you wish please save the hyperlinks now itself for future use.


Regards.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Here is an interesting situation about the caste based reservation. In my posting I have mentioned about the girl who got into MBBS on BC list but could not get into the PG for the past 2 years. While seeking admission for MBBS in the general merit list her rank was about 750 & In BC list her rank was 420 Had there been no reservation she would have got it since there were about 1200 seats were available. But see how this gets distorted with these quotas !! OG (open General) was about 300 hence no chance for her in that. BC quota was about 375 and again she is out of that ! Finally she got it in 2 or 3 list and was given a seat in Thoothukudi Medical college. Unfortunate again. Though this is recognized by Indian Medical Council is not there in the list prepared by WHO and hence could not apply in other countries say UK though her father is a consultant Anesthetist in London Jamb:faint2:

 

[happyhindu]

Jambunathan sir,

I know of 5 ppl who completed post-graduation in the past 4-5 years. Interestingly only 1 is male, the remaining 4 are females. Of these, 3 have gone to western countries to work, and only 2 remain in India (they are planning to move overseas as well). All are NBs and all studied on merit. Only 2 got admission in the first attempt itself. And only 1 of them took a bank loan bcoz her parents passed away when she was doing MBBS and she did not want to depend on financial help from anyone. She worked for 8 years and got MD admission in 2006. She remains unmarried and wedded to her profession. With grit and determination, i think, anyone can make it.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

This is exactly the idea when there is almost sure way to success why tread a carrier
in this Medicals? That is one of the line of thinking among bright TB boys and girls No botheration about PG. Campus to Carrier at about 22 after some earnings with sufficient saving MS or MBA in Global Universities .As Thiagraja puts it சக்கனி ராஜனி மார்க்கமு உண்டக Jambu:amen:

 

[sangom]

This is my 2nd last post on this forum. I will not be logging in here from tonight. So there won't be further replies from me. I made this post coz it caught my eye and thot it better that you get the right leads for seeking admission (for your wife's friend's daughter as you have mentioned). I have requested Praveen to delete all my posts which will be done soon. So if you wish please save the hyperlinks now itself for future use. Regards.

HH,

As you know I also thought of withdrawing completely from this forum, but on second thoughts I felt that I need not take a decision based on some "faceless" comments. Each one of us represents one facet of humanity; we have something to give to the society and also learn many thins from it. With that intent I am continuing. And I urge you to do the same.

 

[nachi naga]

i also wonder ,why ladies scoot away from here.renu,amala,hh,ladies from bangalore,chennai,...looks like we men are disgusting here

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

i also wonder ,why ladies scoot away from here.renu,amala,hh,ladies from bangalore,chennai,...looks like we men are disgusting here

I fell this question is to be discussed by bright TB Boys girls about their choice of carrier- Medicine or software or finance and Management or any thing else? instead of us doing it. My posting were the outcome of the discussion I had with my children at the time of their college admission Jambu

 

[RVR]

Dr Jambu Sir,

You know much better than me about medical profession and education in India.

Whatever I wrote here is from information I gathered from the parents of students who joined MBBS recently. I am not an expert on medical education.

Certain elements are unnecessarily provoking me and I am ignoring all these postings.

I am reading your postings and request you to enlighten all of us on this subject.

All the best

 

[Nara]

Well... what about Homoeopathy

From Homeopathy: The Ultimate Fake

Homeopathic products are made from minerals, botanical substances, and several other sources.

One part of the diluted medicine is then further diluted, and the process is repeated until the desired concentration is reached.

Dilutions of 1 to 10 are designated by the Roman numeral X (1X = 1/10, 3X = 1/1,000, 6X = 1/1,000,000). Similarly, dilutions of 1 to 100 are designated by the Roman numeral C (1C = 1/100, 3C = 1/1,000,000, and so on). Most remedies today range from 6X to 30X, but products of 30C or more are marketed.

A 30X dilution means that the original substance has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times. Assuming that a cubic centimeter of water contains 15 drops, this number is greater than the number of drops of water that would fill a container more than 50 times the size of the Earth.

Oscillococcinum, [is] a 200C product "for the relief of colds and flu-like symptoms. Its "active ingredient" is prepared by incubating small amounts of a freshly killed duck's liver and heart for 40 days. If a single molecule of the duck's heart or liver were to survive the dilution, its concentration would be 1 in 100200. This huge number, which has 400 zeroes, is vastly greater than the estimated number of molecules in the universe (about one googol, which is a 1 followed by 100 zeroes).


In 1995, Prescrire International, a French journal that evaluates pharmaceutical products, published a literature review that concluded:

As homeopathic treatments are generally used in conditions with variable outcome or showing spontaneous recovery (hence their placebo-responsiveness), these treatments are widely considered to have an effect in some patients. However, despite the large number of comparative trials carried out to date there is no evidence that homeopathy is any more effective than placebo therapy given in identical conditions.
​

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

The medical profession has changed a lot in the last 15 to 20 years No more G.P.s The art of clinical medicine is almost lost The skill of dianosis clinically now is questioned It is no more nursing homes It is Multidisciplinary Hospitals and corporate Hospitals. whose shares are listed There are certain ethics prescribed for us including the dimension of our sign boards! Now it is all brand building William Osler" s idea of a doctor with eye of an Hawk heart of a lion fingers of lady are not necessary.The diagnosis is computer aided you are to be visible perennially in the media It is a matter of investment and returns I think TB lack these business skill traditionally Unless you are absolutely missionary mad about this profession you may be frustrated in the end. I did discuss with my 2 sons when they were to go to college. Medicine Never they said .They even avoided Biology Elder was keen on IIT only What If you do not get? I will not join any college But do B.Com in distant education mode and do CA. But by Gods grace he got into IIT Madras The second son was only for commerce and no science He did his CA & ICWA. What about IAS Never a Bureaucrat- Cannot think of entering Government Services Under these Political system as it prevails. They are all highly focused about their carriers .Let them decide do not spend sleepless nights on this issue You may land up with Hypertension I think it is for young TB entering the college have to decide. Jambu:decision: .

 

[RVR]

The medical profession has changed a lot in the last 15 to 20 years No more G.P.s The art of clinical medicine is almost lost The skill of dianosis clinically now is questioned It is no more nursing homes It is Multidisciplinary Hospitals and corporate Hospitals. whose shares are listed There are certain ethics prescribed for us including the dimension of our sign boards! Now it is all brand building William Osler" s idea of a doctor with eye of an Hawk heart of a lion fingers of lady are not necessary.The diagnosis is computer aided you are to be visible perennially in the media It is a matter of investment and returns I think TB lack these business skill traditionally Unless you are absolutely missionary mad about this profession you may be frustrated in the end. I did discuss with my 2 sons when they were to go to college. Medicine Never they said .They even avoided Biology Elder was keen on IIT only What If you do not get? I will not join any college But do B.Com in distant education mode and do CA. But by Gods grace he got into IIT Madras The second son was only for commerce and no science He did his CA & ICWA. What about IAS Never a Bureaucrat- Cannot think of entering Government Services Under these Political system as it prevails. They are all highly focused about their carriers .Let them decide do not spend sleepless nights on this issue You may land up with Hypertension I think it is for young TB entering the college have to decide. Jambu:decision: .

Accountants are in short supply globally. Income Tax department has become corrupt and one need not master the law to practice successfully. So our community members avoid CA/ICWA nowadays. However there is great demand in the employment side for accountants.It is a cost effective career and our boys and girls should take up CA, ICWA and ACS courses for their career.

ICWA is more integrated with global Management accounting bodies like CIMA, CMA (USA) and one can get global qualifications through it.

Global accountancy bodies like ACCA, CIMA conduct their exams in important cities in India and one can pursue the same also for global migration.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

HH,

As you know I also thought of withdrawing completely from this forum, but on second thoughts I felt that I need not take a decision based on some "faceless" comments. Each one of us represents one facet of humanity; we have something to give to the society and also learn many thins from it. With that intent I am continuing. And I urge you to do the same.

sangom,

you could not have put it better. if we leave, it should be of our own voliation - most probably boredom.

but, i have repeatedly urged through private mail, to anyone who feels that he/she is chased away from this forum - DO NOT GIVE IN.

stay behind. stand up. let your voice be heard. if some do not like your voice, let you be heard even louder, and be a constant thorn on the side of the wrong heads.

never be cowed down.

also, learn to have a thicker skin. do not be too sensitive, for people's behaviour is a reflection of that moment in time. i have quarelled to the hilt with some, and bumchums with the same folks a few posts later.

nothing is permanent, except death and taxes.

 

[nachi naga]

sangom,

you could not have put it better. if we leave, it should be of our own voliation - most probably boredom.

but, i have repeatedly urged through private mail, to anyone who feels that he/she is chased away from this forum - DO NOT GIVE IN.

stay behind. stand up. let your voice be heard. if some do not like your voice, let you be heard even louder, and be a constant thorn on the side of the wrong heads.

never be cowed down.

also, learn to have a thicker skin. do not be too sensitive, for people's behaviour is a reflection of that moment in time. i have quarelled to the hilt with some, and bumchums with the same folks a few posts later.

nothing is permanent, except death and taxes.

kunjuppu

i like this attitude of yours.

even when one is banned,then what does one do?

i like especially your last sentence,butthen death is for body not athma,as for taxes lesser i write about it better for my partners and myself :washing: