Michael Jackson or the inflluence of pop music on our life

[kunjuppu]

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i would like michael's name as an euphemism for this thread.

i wish to discuss the impact of popular music (filmi geet) on today's folks.

to put this in perspective, in the 1700s, 1800s, from what i could gather, bach beethoven mendelssohn the european trinity, were the pop stars of the day. not sure, how much of the pop meant permeating to the plebians!

our own carnatic equivalent is our famous trinity ie muthuswamy thyagaraja and syama. i have a gut feeling that they were not popular as today's musicians, but do not know, how much their music permeated across the masses.

myself, born post independence, grew up quite different from my parents and ancestors. we got our first radio 1957, and during the wednesday nights 8 - 8:30 presentation of binaca geeth mala by amin sayani, was curfew time in terms of behaviour in my household. be seen. not heard.

the only equivalent i can relate to is my sister's family to the screening of buniyaad, in the early 1980s.

i grew up in what is considered (atleast i think so ) the golden age of tamil film music - starting from 1959 or so, with paava mannippu, paasa malar and thaai sollai thattathey releases - jewels of music creation from those 'twins' .. viswanathan ramamurthy..

but before that, 1930s movies like kismet, with duets sung by m.s. subbalakshmi and g.n. balasubraminian (yes THE GNB)...

i don't want to bore the public with either my reminiscences, or put out another boring thread.

thodarum?

in all good faith, i will leave the public to carry this thread, till i feel there is a market of more than one. otherwise, i would feel like the proverbial 'oldest member' of p.g.wodehouse's drone's club

thank you.

thank yo.

 

[tbs]

i would like michael's name as an euphemism for this thread.

i wish to discuss the impact of popular music (filmi geet) on today's folks.

to put this in perspective, in the 1700s, 1800s, from what i could gather, bach beethoven mendelssohn the european trinity, were the pop stars of the day. not sure, how much of the pop meant permeating to the plebians!

our own carnatic equivalent is our famous trinity ie muthuswamy thyagaraja and syama. i have a gut feeling that they were not popular as today's musicians, but do not know, how much their music permeated across the masses.

myself, born post independence, grew up quite different from my parents and ancestors. we got our first radio 1957, and during the wednesday nights 8 - 8:30 presentation of binaca geeth mala by amin sayani, was curfew time in terms of behaviour in my household. be seen. not heard.

the only equivalent i can relate to is my sister's family to the screening of buniyaad, in the early 1980s.

i grew up in what is considered (atleast i think so ) the golden age of tamil film music - starting from 1959 or so, with paava mannippu, paasa malar and thaai sollai thattathey releases - jewels of music creation from those 'twins' .. viswanathan ramamurthy..

but before that, 1930s movies like kismet, with duets sung by m.s. subbalakshmi and g.n. balasubraminian (yes THE GNB)...

i don't want to bore the public with either my reminiscences, or put out another boring thread.

thodarum?

in all good faith, i will leave the public to carry this thread, till i feel there is a market of more than one. otherwise, i would feel like the proverbial 'oldest member' of p.g.wodehouse's drone's club

thank you.

thank yo.

Dear Kunjappu,
i agree with u...the evergreen tamil movies are called PAA VARISAI..
from 50s/60s even 70s...like paasa malar/paava manniippu/parthal
pasi theerum /pachai vilakku etc...parasakthi was a beautuful
social evolution movie.........kalyana parissu was a normal
middleclass social theme still valid in modern days...like
abhimaan/kabhi kabhi in hindi movies......evergreen in hindi
movies...........IDHUVUM KADANTHU POGUM...MJ' ERA..

regards

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri kunjuppu Ji,

I also grew up with the Binaca Geet Mala (though I did not and still do not know Hindi), and love the Hindi tunes to this day. Love both western classical and Indian classical too.

But I have found out several years ago when my children were reaching teenage years that 'pop' music is generational. They could not identify with my 'golden years' of pop music, be it Indian or American. Their stars were groups whose music I considered to be noise.

Classical music, be it western or oriental was developed with a strict parameters of musical grammer and so even today it is followed, practiced and appreciated only by a select few. Classical western music was never 'popular', and if it gained any foothold in the west it was because it was propagated through Operas which were then viewed by the then middle class as 'culture'.

It is no accident that the 'pop' music in India came about because of the movies. Most of the 'pop' music in India have catchy tunes based on classical ragas.

But in the west, where they try to always search for originality in creativity, we have the pop music (and arts) develop in to a different kind of discipline.

My two cents.

Regards,
KRS

 

[arunshanker]

I grew up listening to Binaca Geeth mala as well and loved Sayani's " Bhayaon and Bhenon" and Saalana paydan". All along K.S.Raja ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.S.Raja) In Ceylon radio and tamil songs in it was a treat
Jaymala was never missed
Vishesh Jaymala on Sat evening were as treat as well and then there was
Bhule misre geeth - Aap ki framaish and of course vanna chudar and any chance anyone remembers " Suchitra vin Kudumban and Bournvita Quiz"
Regarding Carnatic I have gone to Katcheries by Sembai in B'lore when I was a small kid then I grew up in Camp Road Selaiyur Madras and we had an yearly feast of carnatic vocalists during Ramanavami
Classical western
Vivaldi is one my best later in school days we saw and heard "Yanni" ( does any one remember) and of course in POp Ossibisa visited madras once!
My father used to take me along
When I was in 10 std Boney M and Abba Cropped up and Madras 2 at late nights was great with Beegees etc
In college things toppled
I went heads on into Heavy metal and Classic ROck and still my favs are
Deep Purple, Led zep, Megadeth, Osborne ,Frant zappa and eagles
pop too was in there too but I guess I was a snob and snubbed pop MJ was sure there so was Prince , Gloria Estaphas, Lura Branigan, Springsteen, REO, and several others
Now I dont have time to listen to anything

Actually MJ touched the hearts of many young children with his Music and also various other parts ..... of children
But again one shoudl not speak ill of the dead
Says I guess I was a little up set when I put on the songs as soon as I reached home yesterday After all all thru my college days I have prbly enjoyed his songs and had good time listening to them There is one video I would recommend all of you to see to know the real MJ Please do watch this you may forgive him for all he the bad he had done latter Such innocence, candor, unstained purity, adolescent enthusiasm.
Alas he lost all of it later.
Note his voice it was still same all the way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6nVLkw5GP8
Note the "Thank you I'll be happy to do that"
You comments on the youtube link is welcome
"Child in Time" by Deep purple is my all time best
Thanks
Arun

 

[happyhindu]

i do not remember binaca geetmala. i was born in the tv era i think, because i got to see tv around 4 or 5 (??). i remember buniyaad, the name very vaguely.

micheal jackson, just the name, i think was known to even to villagers in godforsaken places. such was the popularity.

we kids used to do break dance, like 'mikel jackson ishtyle' and wud compete abt who cud imitate him the best.

and thriller was such a thrill among teenagers. boys always imagined girls wud come running into their arms, with no such luck they still loved making monstrous faces to scare the girlies..

the king of pop sure he was, until his kingdom lasted. he sure will be remembered for a very long time to come for his new music style, eccentrities, controversies, and sheer talent.

 

[arunshanker]

Dear Sri kunjuppu Ji,

Their stars were groups whose music I considered to be noise.


KRS

Spot on
if you think it is noise and they think it is music it is your prob not theirs (please take it in the lighter spirit)
In fact I used to listen to a lot of music in the late 80s which my parents considered as noise viz., Deep Purple, Led Zep, Iron Maiden etc., later in 90s it was GunsNRoses ...
Now my daughter listens to "Linking Park" I find that interesting and in fact like their music which actually surprises her because not all her classmates' fathers' like that kind of music!
anyway Rock has evolved and the basic remains the same

 

[happyhindu]

Well, i don't think anyone sees anything as a prob in the first place. Its just an expression. Kunjuppuji and KRS-ji are easy going ppl. I think i was lucky my father is ok with heavy metal, but only as long as the volume is kept low and for a time period. But he does like slow rock and springsteen kind of pop. Classical music puts him to sleep and he does not understand the lyrics in carnatic and that inability sorta turns him off. He tends to keep up with the latest releases, of even ppl like britney spears (whose music i don't seem to like), so he gets along very well with his grandchildren and the very-young generation in that aspect. I on the other hand prefer carnatic anyday, though am also hung up on songs by diff bands.

 

[kunjuppu]

... till recently, most tamil film music directors were brahmins, all of them with deep foundations in carnatic music.

again, it was only in the mid 50s, that the concept of music director became accepted in the tamil cinema. till then, each studio had its own orchestra and in the credits for music, no individual name was given prominence.

while MS, MLV and GNB's film songs have disappeared, i hope one can still hear some golden tunes of MKT in all india radio?

i do not know hindi. the concept of hindi film music pervading to all corners of the country and susbsequently providing impetus to regional film music is a unique indian situation.

i do not know of any other society, where the music beat has been popularized and in the process became a levelling influence on an entire society as indian film music. in the west music is separate from the films as a rule. i have watched the occassional chinese movie on local television and again i did not find any song and dance sequence.

what the pop music did to me, was that i could walk through the nearby slums, and pick up the tune, that i left at home. the maadi veedu and the cheri were attuned to the same medium of influence.

perhaps, this very phenomenon, especially among the youth of the 60s (for with the advent of transistors, there was no need for electricity for the valve radio), must have sent shivers down the spine of the older brahmin generation.

i know of, then several of my family households were listening to radio, other than news or classical music was discouraged.

don't even go near english music. i remember listening to the english listener's choice programmed every saturday around 9 pm, under the covers of bed, with the transistor volume, just loud enough to satisfy me. even then, dad in the next room, probably could hear some strains floating through, and before long, would amble along, and snatch away the offending source of cacophony, and would urge me to seek my further musical solace in my dreams.

thodarum...

thank you

 

[sapr333]

Music is all about just 7 notes and with that frame of mind, I cultivated myself to enjoy any kind/age/genre of musics like Mc Hammers Rap,Spirogyra Jazz, Linkin Park,Carnatic, or the age olds like Doris Day, Que sera sera,Kunnakudi & kids jingles..

Inspite, I certainly have a problem in enjoying hindi songs!! Unlike classics compositions of Sant.Thiagaraja(keerthanai) or Bach/Mozart, new generation wants a '3 in 1 music'.. Iyal-Isai-Nadagam..(Lyics-Music-Drama)..Yes, ears are mute to Lyrics in Hindi songs.. I miss Drama/Lyrics in carnatic.. This blend of all 3 arts, were first initiated only in the Indian movie screen, and I think, that's why the Indian film music has made so much influnce on our society. Music videos/MTV followed the suit..

As Shri.KRS rightly said, the growth of western classic is mainly due to the intense promotion though Opera,.... I would add,they also promoted it through free demo songs in 'Window Media Player, Mobile Ring tones, movie back ground score etc. And some 70's artists like ELP (my fav is manticore)/beach boys used(copied) Bach's classics,added their own lyrics,hit the top charts, while subtly promoting classics.Grammy also did its role.

Btw,there is a classic song in Tamil sung by a female tamil artist,possibly around 50's, a 100% copy cat of 'Que Sera Sera' starts like Vennila Nila.

Regarding the thread's core topic, 'Influence of Pop Music & Mijac', will post soon an essay out of my life experience...

 

[sapr333]

"Child in Time" by Deep purple is my all time best
Thanks
Arun

Dear Arun,

it took me back by a decade..Thats 10 min long, 'Sweet Child In Time', number is indeed the best of 'DeepPurple" & my fav too.. A decade ago, I was literally stuggling in vain, to try that opening Organ lead by Jon Lord, in my guitar. Btw, my all time favourite is, that, dread full ballad 'Soldier of Fortune'..And also some of those albums, came in their later stage(early 90's) esp "Slaves & Masters"

In 2001, I got a chance to see their 'live show',standing on the very front seat, just 3 ft away from stage.. .Thanks to the 'Press culb' pass,which my loved one gifted.Electric,sweating,thirsty surrounded by 100KW(PMPO) powerful audio systems.

At the end of the show, Ian Paice threw all his drum sticks to the crowd, one of which hit my head and dropped down to my feet. Squeezed down,grabbed the tip of it, only to find, another tattoed junky fan, snatching it away from me, and sneaked out through the crowd mercilessly..

Kaikku Vanthathu Vaikku Yettama Poittu!! Felt as if I've lost a million dollar in a day!!

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri arunshanker Ji,

Just because I did not like the taste of my sons' music, does not mean that I am in a way 'not communicating' with them.

I even took them to the local 'lala palooza' events, if you know what they are.

We just knew that our musical tastes were different and it never came as an issue between us. Even today, when I visit them, they play my favourites for me and when they come home I play theirs.

But when playing their favourites, I shut off my ear and I suspect they do the same when I am in their universe, listening to my favourrtes!

Is this not what is called as a civilized behaviour?

Regards,
KRS

 

[sapr333]

Dear Sri arunshanker Ji,

Just because I did not like the taste of my sons' music, does not mean that I am in a way 'not communicating' with them.

I even took them to the local 'lala palooza' events, if you know what they are.

KRS

Shri.KRS, I think the taste of music changes like a cycle which goes ups n downs..

When we were young, dad used to play his Vinyl LP, those James Last Band,Bach in piano,Christopher Cross,Beatles,Elvis,stevie wonder,Sound of Music,Doris day,Bobby,Sholay(hindi),VeeraPandiya Kattabomman etc etc.. But we as children were only angry with his taste..And once in a while,(very rarely) our tastes were satisfied by him, bringing home a carefully chosen(censored) songs of Shivaji,Kamal songs.

Now,a cycle of change, after retirement, his tastes changed.. He enjoyed watching tamil movie songs,Sops,action movies in HBO,Cartoons,(and) myself gone in to his shoes, and myslef enjoying the meticulous cleaning his old Vinyl Records with Iso Propyl alcholhol,and playing them at 33 RPM. Now a days,he never likes himself to play them, but loves when I play them..May be once children cross 30's, they would develop a liking for fathers taste,and when fathers touch 60, they tend to follow what their childrens' days

Btw, since ages,my long term wish was to attend "Wood Stock festival'', still pending.... Thanks for info on Lala Palooza, hit wiki, and ,something I learned new today..

 

[kunjuppu]

over 30 years ago, we used have a sikh family as our friends. the lady used to encourage her three children to watch indian movies,as she reasoned 'how else will they ever know indian culture'.

i responded that if the kids had to learn indian culture to bollwood, it is a guaranteed destiny to kuttichevaru. i was only 66 2/3%, one of the three turned out well.

but what is surprising, is that today bollywood influence even in our weddings. the past three weddings in chennai, we have had the mehndi function, one with an open bar(!), the jacks and jills frolicking to the beat of the latest bollywood hit or bhangra, with the odd tamil dappaankuthu thrown in.

the public might say the mehndi is an age old function. i wish to respond, that this was a northern phenomenon, and we have caught on to this only recently and would not have known what to do, had we not seen this in hindi movies. i think so anyway.

currently, in the mixed marriage (north south) dominant in north america, it is more often common to see scenes snatched out of bollywood for such functions as baraat, the groom entering the hall (the maids swing to a dance from the latest aishwarya group hit) etc etc. the youngsters appear to mimic the words, even though many of them do not know hindi. the canned naadaswaram is heard only during the maangalya dhaaranam.

about 35 years ago, at a family wedding, we youngsters requested the naadhaswaram guy to play nalanthaana from thillaana mohanaambaL. one elderly gent came rushing, and gave this guy a good tongue lash for having the audacity to play such a song at a wedding. nowadays, i hear this song regularly in all the recent weddings i have attended in chennai.

i think our attitudes have changed. we no longer look upon pop culture with the disdain of our highbrows. i think we have always had a weakness for the filmi music, but my father's generation hid it under the garb of open praise for the godly carnatic music. the current generation, i think, has shed themselves of this hypocracy and are more honest about it.

my early years were spent in thiruvallikkeNi, close to a shia and marwari neighbourhoods. both these communities, on certain nights, the loudspeakers used to blare out hindi filmi music. my mother would tell me, that there was a wedding celebrated.

thank you.