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Miracles by the Departed Souls

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Miracles by the Departed Souls

Ramayana and Mahabharata are two great Hindu epics. They are treasure houses of Hindu Wisdom. The more you read them, the more meanings you get. The deeper you go, you come up with new interpretations. If you want to compare those incidents and anecdotes with Big bang theory or Theory of Evolution, Quasars or Quantum Physics, Theory of Relativity or highest philosophy it gives scope for all those things.


What happens to us after death? Where do we go from here if you believe in rebirth? Is there any place where you spend your time before rebirth?-- are few of the questions that come to our minds. Some people claim that they see the departed souls in their dreams and some others say that they saw great people who have died long ago. Can the departed souls come back to earth in the same form after some time?

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Picture of Ramayana painting in Thailand.

(It is true that great saints visit earth now and then. I myself had one such experience. When Swamiji Krishna of Ayakkudi, Tenkasi was doing Ganapathy Homa in one of the houses in Madurai, he suddenly asked everyone to prostrate in one particular direction showing a vacant space up above, near the roof. Later he told that one of the great souls who lived in the house came to bless everyone. Later the owners of the house took Swamiji upstairs and showed the picture of their great grandfather. He was a saint who died at least 50 or 60 years ago).


Two incidents in the Ramayana and Mahabharata give some interesting information about these things. Dasaratha came back in flesh and blood to earth and embraced Rama and Lakshmana long back after his death. In the Mahabharata Duryodhana, Bheeshma, Abimanyu and others came back to earth 15 years after their death in the battle and took some of the living people with them to the heaven! Read about these interesting things in more details below:


Dasaratha appears to Rama (chapter 121,Yudda Kanda, Valmiki Ramayana)

Dasaratha stood in his chariot. He came back from Indraloka. Rama and Lakshmana bowed before him who was standing in his aerial car in the sky. Dasaratha took Rama and Lakshmana and embraced them. They mutually praised each other. Dasaratha even told Sita not to mistake him for sending her to Agni pareeksha (Fire Test). After addressing all the three he ascended to Indraloka in his chariot. Mounted on his aerial car, full of majesty, his body blazing with effulgence, Dasaratha returned to the abode of the Sovereign of the Gods.
Before Dasaratha left, Rama requested him to forgive Kaikeyi and Bharatha and accept them as his wife and son. Dasaratha told Kaikeyi before dying that she was not his wife anymore and Bharatha was not his son.
Kuru-fam-tree.gif


Mahabharata Miracle

When Mahabharata was recited in the assembly of King Janamejaya he also did not believe that the dead came back to earth. He asked whether he could see his dad Pariksheet, immediately Vyasa brought him to earth.
Mahabharata gives more information about different levels of living places for the departed. In the Sthree Parva of the epic, there is a discussion about the people who died in the war. When Dhritarashtra asked about them, Yudhishtra told him those who fought valiantly and whole heartedly, they all went to Indraloka. Those who fought unwillingly, went to Gandarvaloka and those who fought and backed out or killed when begged for life, they all went to the place of Yakshas.

Bhagavad Gita and Tamil Sangam Anthology ‘Purananuru’ say in clear cut terms that those who are killed in war go to heaven.

Please read my Tamil articles on ‘Gita in Pura Nanuru’ Part 1 (புறனானுற்றில் பகவத் கீதை-பகுதி 1, பகுதி-2, வீரத்தாயும் வீர மாதாவும்)

Reappearance of those who died in the great Bharata war is narrated in chapter3 of Asramavasika Parva in Mahabharata. I summarise only the important points:


1. At the request of Gandhari, Dhritarashtra and Kunthi, the great Rishi of miraculous powers Vyasa did this. He asked everyone to assemble on the banks of Ganges.
2. When Vyasa called the names of the dead people, they all came out of Ganges water and appeared just above the water. The Pandava and Kaurava armies rose up with big uproar. Bheeshma and Drona came out first. Thousands of dead people appeared with them. Dhritarashtra’s sons, Pandava’s sons, army commanders from both the sides, all appeared in front of the assembled Rishis, general public and the royal families on the banks of River Ganga.
3. Dhritarashtra and Gandhari got divine vision by the grace of Vyasa. All of them spoke with the dead throughout night. Everyone was happy. There was no enmity.
4. Women who have lost their husbands and sons were happy to see them back alive. Vyasa told the Kshatriya ladies, they can accompany their husbands if they wanted to. Several women came forward and went to heaven with their husbands. They entered the Ganges water along with their husbands.
5. All of them disappeared in the water. Then Vyasa told Dhritarashtra that his sons are ever happy like he saw them today.
6. Three years after this incident Dhritarashtra, Gandhari, Kunthi – all died in a forest fire. In fact, they refused to move away from forest fire and sacrificed their lives voluntarily.

This narration proves that people live after their death in various planes till the time of their rebirth comes. They are happy and there is only love in the heaven and no hatred even between born enemies. Only great Rishis (seers) like Vyasa can bring the dead back to earth for a short period. In the Ramayana we heard about physical touch and embrace. Here no such embracing was reported. There was always a distance between the dead and the alive. Mahabharata has more on this topic of the departed souls in different places. Anyone interested can do a deeper study.


Departed Souls in Tamil Epic Silappadikaram

Tamil epic Silappadikaram also has one such story. Kovalan, the hero of the epic was sentenced to death by the Pandya king under the false accusation of stealing the queen’s anklet. Fourteen days after this execution, his wife Kannaki was standing under a tree and Kovalan came back to earth in an aerial car and took Kannaki to heaven. The tribal women in the hill watched this in awe. They praised her as goddess and reported the incident to the Chera King Senguttuvan. The story of what women had seen under the Venkai tree at the top of the hill Tiruchenkunru astonished all who heard it. The wonder struck king decided to erect a s temple for Kannaki and marched all the way to Himalayas with an army and brought back a holy stone from the Himalayas. He bathed the stone in the Ganges and made it holier. This episode shows that 2000 years ago the values and beliefs were same throughout India.
 
london swaminathan;18027 [B said:
Departed Souls in Tamil Epic Silappadikaram
[/B]
Tamil epic Silappadikaram also has one such story. Kovalan, the hero of the epic was sentenced to death by the Pandya king under the false accusation of stealing the queen’s anklet. Fourteen days after this execution, his wife Kannaki was standing under a tree and Kovalan came back to earth in an aerial car and took Kannaki to heaven.

LOL! Kovalan was in heaven??

I feel this must be just some story to glorify Kovalan.

Just imagine if a female had behaved like Kovalan and had a lover and made her husband carry her to her lover's house... I am sure the after death story would show her being dragged by a Yama Duta and tortured in hell!

So the moral of the story here shows that guys can be immoral and still get to heaven!

So guys..what are you all waiting for???..just do what you please..if Kovalan can get to heaven and that too have a private jet(aerial car)..I am sure anyone can get there!
 
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london swaminathan;180277
In the Ramayana we heard about physical touch and embrace. Here no such embracing was reported. There was always a distance between the dead and the alive.
Dear Sir,

There presumed distance between the dead and alive is not really a barrier but a difference of frequency.

The alive are in their Physical Body and the "Dead" are in their Subtle Bodies.

The Subtle Body is made up of much higher frequency than the Physical Body and the living usually can not feel this higher frequency..just like how we all sit in our rooms and are not able to feel our Wifi or radio/satellite waves frequency.

For examples we humans can not hear beyond a certain frequency but animals can and these makes animals being able to detect the presence of a Subtle Body(Ghost) easily compared to us.

In case of Ramayan where Dasharatha embraced Rama..yes its possible cos Rama was an Avatar and He is beyond Time and Space and there is nothing that is outside of Him hence He could feel the embrace of Dasharatha.

In the Mahabharat story..most of those left behind were just humans and NOT Avatar or anyone with a high Yogic/Siddhic ability to detect any touch by the departed.

All the frequencies of the Subtle Body and Physical Body usually co exist without any problems..but there are cases where there is Hacking into the frequencies by our own Subtle Bodies of the living during Astral Travel and this can make us pick up various experiences just like how if someone hacks into our email ID..he gets to know everything about us.
 
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Dear Renuka

KOVALAN

All miracle stories are only for believers. If you believe one and reject others, there is no reasoning there. Kovalan regretted his mistakes/blunders and came back to Kannaki. More over Hindu ethical books say once you undergo punishment all the sins are cancelled or nullified. So I wouldn't doubt that he came from heaven to pick up Kannaki. Above all, Hindus believe a chaste woman has miraculous powers. Even if you reject Kovalan as a bad guy, Kannaki's chastity would have sent him to heaven. Like Rama, she never deviated from her Dharmik path.

Regarding subtle body and other things, that is applicable even today for us. But the three incidents that were quoted in the post were unique, without any parallel in any literature. It can happen only rarely.It can be done by great people like Vyasa.

Last but not the least, even if we discard all the divine miracles in the anecdotes and treat them as simple historic events, we have to look at the times it happened. Women are always discriminated against and subjugated by men in all the cultures. This is because men were the only bread winners. Even today Muslim women have not got the rights which other women have got. Western countries turn a blind eye to lot of discrimination because they supply them petrol.
 
Even if you reject Kovalan as a bad guy, Kannaki's chastity would have sent him to heaven. Like Rama, she never deviated from her Dharmik path.

Dear Sir,

Wow..this is even worse..that means a guy just needs to get a chaste wife and do as he pleases and he has a seat in heaven!
No wonder I see some guys marry homely goody goody women and the guys have a nice time outside home..cos they know their seat to heaven is booked.

But these days of budget airlines..may be the aerial car they get might not be Pusphak Vimanam range.

BTW is the reverse also true??

Just say a woman is not chaste and has multiple lovers but her husband is a chaste person...will she get a seat in heaven??

We have no idea right??

So I guess Kovalan if at all he went to heaven would have been on account of some other birth Sanchita Karma and not becos of Kannaki's chastity.

May be the portion of his Sanchita Karma with regards to his immoral lifestyle would have kicked in much later..there might be a part 2 of the story..that Kovalan takes a suffering human birth or spent sometime in hell.


I feel such stories should NOT be glorified where it shows misbehavior on the part of the male still entitles them to heaven just becos their wife is chaste.

This does not make society improve..but it will only re enforce that fact that a man can misbehave and still get away with it.

Humans need to behave especially males..cos most of the wars/fights etc are caused by males.

BTW I don't think the comparison of Kannaki and Rama is apt cos Kannagi cursed an entire city of innocent people and caused them to die in flames that too for an immoral husband!LOL

Lord Rama had never cursed or killed any innocent person.
 
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I don't know how Shri Praveen views threads such as this one which serve only to create confusions such as gender discriminations (post #2) and superstitious beliefs.

According to the Rigveda, dead humans never would come back to the Earth; the rigvedic people, it seems, did not believe in rebirth. This was a later invention possibly when our people got contacts with more and more people both within the sub-continent as also outside, through trade and commerce. We do not have any clear evidence of any dead person having given a darsan to any living person. The Dharmasastras clearly say that Sraaddha offered to the pitrus alone without uttering their godly names vasu, rudra and aditya will be useless; the pitrus can come down to earth only if led (accompanied) by the visvedevas.

On the other side Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV-4-4 and Bhagavadgeetaa II-22 clearly state that the soul or spirit leaving one body enters another one.

It is thus clear that even our scriptures are possibly not sure as to what happens after death. Yama also succeeds in avoiding an answer to Nachiketa's query on this topic.

Hence, the stray references in Ramayana or Mahabharata are just what these are - just stray references which go to strengthen the lay people's belief in ancestor worship, performance of Sraaddha, Tarpana, etc., and nothing more.

IMHO, TBC should grow out of disseminating such superstitious stuff, if possible.
 
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Dear Renuka

Please read Silappadikaram in full and then read this again. It is available in English translation as well. Poets like Bharathy wouldn't have praised it sky high for no reason.

Regagrding Kannaki's burning Madurai. she requested God of Fire to spare Chaste women, Invalids, Brahmins, Cows, children and burn all the evil people.

Pasu/cow and Parpanar/brahmins stand for all good people and animals were spared.
This is a traditional greeting (Go Brahmanebya Subhamasthu Nithyam Loka Samastho Sukino Bhavanthu)

As I have mentioned earlier, it should be viewed in historical context. Nobody justified Kovalan going to Madhavi. But your question whether he went to heaven , whether he had the power to come back in aerial car, would a woman have got the same treatment cant be answered by me. Unless you believe in it, there is no epic. The epic came into existence only because of this miracle. By chance the tribal women witnessed this aerial car episode and reported to Cheran Chenguttuvan and his brother wrote the epic. Without this miracle, the incident would not have seen the light of the day in this form. As a Tamil you must read it in full. But accepting it or rejecting it in full or part--- is your own right.
 
Sri. Swaminathan, Greetings.

Usually I don't go through your messages in detail. But this unusual traffic in this thread attracted me.

I never considered Kovalan as a decent human being, leave alone a hero. I was only about 7 years old when I watched the movie " Poompugar". I felt miserable. There was no compelling reason for Kovalan to fall in love with Madhavi. Madhavi's mother encouraged Madhavi to go after Kovalan only because he was rich. But Kovalan had no excuse to fall in love with Madhavi when he had a loving wife at home.

I don't see any reason for glorifying such an immoral person. Secondly I don't see how Hinduism can be advanced by glorifying such an unethical person. I like to stop before I get carried away.

Cheers!
 
Dear Renuka

Please read Silappadikaram in full and then read this again. It is available in English translation as well. Poets like Bharathy wouldn't have praised it sky high for no reason.

Regagrding Kannaki's burning Madurai. she requested God of Fire to spare Chaste women, Invalids, Brahmins, Cows, children and burn all the evil people.

Pasu/cow and Parpanar/brahmins stand for all good people and animals were spared.
This is a traditional greeting (Go Brahmanebya Subhamasthu Nithyam Loka Samastho Sukino Bhavanthu)

Dear Sir,

I am still not impressed with Kannaki...she did not mind people dying.
Sparing a selected few does not make it any better.

We have no right even to wish ill for evil people..after all no evil person besides her own husband harmed her.
Her husband harmed her mentally.

Dying in fire is a very painful death..burns victim suffer and die..so I feel a right thinking person will never wish for the God of Fire to engulf all evil people.

Further more in Hinduism.. God is a silent witness..so no Deva or God is going to kill people for nothing at all..that is totally not the Hindu concept of religion.

Most probably Kannaki was depressed..she had to face all the mental torture staying with a husband who was immoral and then when Kovalan was rejected by Madhavi..he came back to Kannaki(if Madhavi was still paying Kovalan attention ..Kovalan would have never come back to Kannaki)

Now the rejected Kovalan would have been trying to make it up to Kannaki and showred her extra attention and she would have been stupid enough to fall for it and become dependent on him..so when he died..she could not take it and would have gone into a state of manic depression.

She could have set Madurai on fire herself and causing the death of many in that process.

BTW sparing Chaste woman only??

Unchaste women also have the right to live.Even great souls have reformed "fallen" women knowing that divinity lies deep in everyone.

Swami Vivekananda himself who had refused to sit in a Kings court to hear the singing of a courtesan eventually went up to her and called her Mother when she sang sadly knowing the Swami was not interested to hear her voice cos it is forbidden for a sanyasi to hear the voice of a courtesan.

She sang some couplet about how all rivers flow to Ganga or something like that which had Advaitic undertones and that made Swami Vivekananda address her as mother.

BTW why only Brahmins be spared?? What about other castes??

Why only cows? What about other animals??

BTW
Go Brahmanebya Subhamasthu Nithyam Loka Samastho Sukino Bhavanthu
...The last few words is Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu and that includes everyone and all forms of life in this world and universe..so in other words we are praying to God to bestow happiness unto the entire creation..and Kannaki was doing the exact opposite!
So it is not as if only Cows and Brahmins alone should be bestowed upon happiness to ensure World Peace.

It is just that cow/bull are needed for agriculture/mik and for Vedic rights..a Brahmin is needed for imparting religious knowledge to society.

Others too need to be well and alive to receive any religious knowledge.
So if everyone else perishes what will a Brahmin do with his cow??

Society is mutually interdependent..one can NOT stay without the other.
That's why even the Supreme Person is described as a head/mouth giving rise to Brahmanas, Arms/Shoulder to Kshatriyas,Abdomen/Thighs to Vaishyas and Feet to Sudras.

If only Brahmins and Cows were enough..the Supreme person would have been symbolized just a Cow like Head without a body.

So far the only Head without a Body we all know is Rahu!LOL

So that verse Go Brahmanebya Subhamasthu Nithyam Loka Samastho Sukino Bhavanthu is a describing society as a whole.


Basically all I can say is Kannaki was a person who did not have a stable mind and could have been an Arsonist.

BTW keep on writing..I do read all your works and it is nice to debate a differences of opinion.
 
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Dear all

Neither me nor Ilango, author of Silappadikaram, glorified Kovalan.But it glorified Kannaki.
But the miracle is the basis for the entire book. Some forest people watched Kovalan coming from heaven and picking up Kannaki. When they reported to King Chenguttuvan, who was casually on his way, made all the arrangements to go to Himalayas and install a statue. This is history, not myth.But the Kovalan coming from heaven and kannaki accompanying him to heaven is only for believers. people who obect to such miracles should read PERIAPURANAM and comment on each story.

No one can wipe out what is written in literature. It is up to the people to interpret it in the way they want. Lot of people have commented on Silappadikaram from 13th century. Nobody questioned or challenged Kovalan's travel from heaven. Probably they went with the trend of the age.

Moghul kings destroyed lot of Hindu temples. Geberal O Dwyre massacrd 400+ people in JALIANWALA BAGH in Amritsar in Punjab. When British PM visited Amritsar last week he refused to apologise for the British ''mistake''. But history is history. No one can say ,Dont talk about it, dont write about it. But if anyone fans hatred towards Muslims or the British for their past actions, I will also object to it.

Knowing what happened in the past or what were the views of our forefathers will put us in the proper place. Every one has freedom to choose what he/she wants. There should not be any control over in passing the past history. My son himself asked me lot of questions when I told him PERIAPURANAM stories.

I have given my views on it in the general section under STOPPING CERTAIN THREADS IS NOT GOOD.

Thanks for reading and commenting.
 
Society is mutually interdependent..one can NOT stay without the other.
That's why even the Supreme Person is described as a head/mouth giving rise to Brahmanas, Arms/Shoulder to Kshatriyas,Abdomen/Thighs to Vaishyas and Feet to Sudras.

If only Brahmins and Cows were enough..the Supreme person would have been symbolized just a Cow like Head without a body.

So far the only Head without a Body we all know is Rahu!LOL

So that verse Go Brahmanebya Subhamasthu Nithyam Loka Samastho Sukino Bhavanthu is a describing society as a whole.


Basically all I can say is Kannaki was a person who did not have a stable mind and could have been an Arsonist.

BTW keep on writing..I do read all your works and it is nice to debate a differences of opinion.

Smt. Renuka,

"GobraahmanebhyaH" in that verse means, as I have heard from elders, the brahmins of this world, because the earth was considered as the milch cow of kings and emperors; it has nothing to do with catttle. "lOkAH samastAH sukhinO bhavantu" is a marginal compliment to the rest of the populace.

BTW, I am under the impression that this "swastiprajjabhyaH..." is a benedictory coined by RKM, am I correct?
 
Shri London Swami,

Since Shri Praveen has closed the other thread of yours, titled "stopping-certain-threads-not-good", I am writing here my views.

I agree that you may be putting in a great lot of effort in preparing your threads which appear with predictable regularity. I do not comment, by and large, because most of your threads/posts do not interest me. But this particular thread which dishes out the fancy idea of dead persons visiting the living people just as accidentally as a long-separated acquaintance may be met in some place, and supported by evidence from Ramayana, Mahabharata and one Swami Krishnaji (?) etc., is, in my view, not at all helpful in the community's progress. It will only help some people, at least, to become more neurotic and then they will see their dead ancestors or even enemies/opponents/sisters-in-law (nAthanArs, I mean) coming and haunting them.

So, while you are at full liberty to do research on anything under the sun, my request to you is to use a little bit of discretion in what you dish out here as a routine. In case your aim is to score some points in this forum, you have many very illustrious examples (I need not mention the names) and you can jolly well follow their footsteps too.

My final point is whether you have yourself seen any of your dead ancestors come in front of you (in a chariot or posh car, etc.,) communicated to you where he/she is and then hugged you like Dasaratha reportedly did to his sons? If so kindly share your experience and what the psychiatrists had to say about that experience of yours.

In the name of starting threads many of us may have a very large store of information but people like me think twice or many times before starting a new thread; as the saying goes ஆற்றிலெ போட்டாலும் அளந்து போடு (even if you throw into the river, have an estimate of what you throw.) Just do not post whatever comes to your mind, in a routine and வழிபாடு manner.
 

Dear Sangom Sir,

Dr. Swaminathan is a scholar and has submitted many papers. He spends his precious time to share them with our forum

members. Those who have keen interest in reading, learn unknown facts from his papers. He has a group of ardent readers.

I don't think he ever aims at scoring points or any other award here. :)
 
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Thanks for all the constructive criticism and compliments.
It is not unusual for me to get complaint letters. As part of two mass media oraganisations we used to scrutinize the letters of complaints and compliments on day to day basis. Only when the Editor tells us to publish ''correction'', we do it. Otherwise we take it as another point of view.
I have not stopped writing for 42 years. It started on 1 February 1972 in Madurai Dinamani.
I have no intention of stopping writing. I contribute to various media.
But it is up to the readers to read it or reject it. Complaints are as welcome as compliments.

The Audience Research Bureau wing of the BBC World Service translate all our letters without our knowledge (confidentially). When it thinks it should come to our attention , my boss brings it to us.
Here there is no boss. Internet brings it. Thanks.
 
Every Religion has some Miracle Stories.

After three days in the grave, Jesus came back to life. Because of His resurrection nearly 2000 years ago, Easter is still celebrated today. When some of Jesus’ followers came to the tomb and found it empty they were afraid. Jesus then appeared to His followers outside the tomb.
Jesus lived on earth for fifty days after His resurrection from the dead. More than 500 people saw Him and witnessed the events. He ate with some of these witnesses. He let one of His disciples, Thomas, touch His wounds.

So it is up to the followers to believe it or leave it.
Jesus Saves - Jesus Christ and Salvation
 

Dear Sangom Sir,

Dr. Swaminathan is a scholar and has submitted many papers. He spends his precious time to share them with our forum

members. Those who have keen interest in reading, learn unknown facts from his papers. He has a group of ardent readers.

I don't think he ever aims at scoring points or any other award here. :)

Smt. Raji,

I am not aware that Swaminathan is a "scholar" but had read that he had a long career in the media, starting from Dinamani and now in BBC.

If he is a scholar, then I feel his responsibility is all the more and that he should be more careful in what type/s of "unknown facts" he should bring out in a common forum such as this. Simply finding out another avenue for his already "submitted" (but not published anywhere? is that what you meant to convey?) papers is not a welcome idea, according to me.

Thank you for being one of his "ardent readers", and clarifying that he has no aim to score points; I don't know whether there is any "award" being given in tbf, do you know, by any chance?
 

Dear Sangom Sir,

I did not declare that I am an ardent reader but I know that a few of our members are regular readers of Swami Sir's posts.

I am surprised to know that you
are not aware of awards given by our forum! Please keep your eyes open and try to find out!! :)
 
Dear Raji Ram

Thanks for pointing it out to Mr P J.
My articles are published in various sites simultaneously.
Speaking Tree is Times of India site.
Sometimes they feature my article , then I get 4000 hits in a day or two!!
Am amazing site with a big readership.

South Indian Society, UK has another site where my articles are featured.
 
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