Non-spiritual frauds

[Nara]

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Folks,

For all intents and purposes spirituality is a fraud by itself. Well, I know, that is probably a little too harsh. For it to be a fraud there must be intentionality, and spirituality is used only sometimes with intentionality to defraud, the rest of the time it is just our ancestral property, namely, delusion.

While spirituality offers fertile ground for frauds of all kind, non-spiritual areas are not devoid of its share of frauds. The systemic corruption in India, and other developing nations, is too well known to need any special comment.

But what about the so called developed nations? Well, there is an adage that says there is a sucker born every minute. So, as long as there are suckers around, there will always be frauds to take advantage. Caveat Emptor, they say. So, if you get duped, you have only yourself to blame.

But what about the frauds who defraud legally? You see, this happens only in the so called developed nations.

This City Manager finagled a job with a salary of nearly $800K managing a small and one of the poorest of California Cities called Bell City, population 30,000. For comparion, President Obama makes $400K managing the entire country. Click here for more details.

Since reports of this super exorbitant salary surfaced, the city manager was fired, but the city is still obligated by law to pay this weasel his last drawn salary as pension for the rest of his life.
What do you call this? Corruption? Legal fraud?

Then there is the merger of Merrill Lynch and Bank of America (BOA) of 2008. Part of the deal Merill executives negotiated with BOA was bonus payment of $5.8 billion. Merrill Lynch executives ran the company to ground and then, prodded by Bush Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, made a deal with BOA to take Merrill over, and in the bargain wrote into the contract a bonus payment of $5.8 billion to themselves, the very same Merrill executives who ran the company to ground in the first place. BOA was later charged by US Securties and Exchaneg Commission, the watchdog arm of the US government, but they paid a paltry $33 million fine without even admitting guilt. Everything is legal and dandy.

Perfectly legal corruption on a grand scale. MK and his family are just ammeters.

Cheers!

 

[anandb]

Dear Shri. Nara,

Good topic. While developing nations like India host with an array of man made problems like corruption which has its basis on "greed", in the developed nations these legal frauds are perpetrated on an institutional basis again based on "greed". Just talking about USA, you have Wall Street and the banking cartel hand in hand with government support, the oil industry and the government in collusion, the defense industry and the government in collusion, the pharma and the food industry and the FDA, the various political campaigns funded by the industry creating vested interests and the list goes on. So while we have this grass roots corruption going on in countries like India where one cannot lead a life without bribing for basic things, one finds this big institutionalized corruption going on in developed countries where the tag is still picked up by the hapless consumer. Indirectly, the aam janta still pays.

I think the worst offender right now is Wall Street. The below article details compares the stock markets to casinos.

How Financial Brokers Became Bookies: The Insidious Transformation of Markets Into Casinos

This is really scary. Greed is just spiraling out of control. Now I am really worried. For years, I have been saving like a sparrow on education and retirement funds and there is this fear building up inside me that everything will go down in smoke when I need it. Are these articles for real or just conspiracy theories? What do you think? Professor.

 

[anandb]

another article about rising economic insecurity in the USA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/opinion/27herbert.html?scp=4&sq=bob herbert&st=cse

Reading the above article, I think the author is being gentle by calling it "economic insecurity". If something similar happens in India, it will be called rising "poverty". With this brilliantly coined term "quantitative easing" (printing money) being practiced increasingly, what will be the value of the US dollar in future? Will a time come when it will start getting used as toilet paper?

 

[sangom]

Something which many people may not agree to today, but which I believe will happen. US will go down financially and also as a military power. Once that reaches certain critical level, the "sons of the soil" fanaticism will immediately raise its ugly head in the US and all the dreams of a glorious America and its culture will vanish as smoke. Indians there will have to bear this in mind and try to save something for the rainy days in India. Note: I am not a canvasser for NRI deposits!

 

[Nara]

Now I am really worried. For years, I have been saving like a sparrow on education and retirement funds and there is this fear building up inside me that everything will go down in smoke when I need it. Are these articles for real or just conspiracy theories? What do you think?

Dear Anand,

Reports of the dollar's demise are greatly exaggerated (h/t Mark Twain).

The national debt of USA stands at about $13 trillion. The GDP of USA is about $14.2 trillion. No debt is good, but, some economists like Paul Krugman say national debt in the range of up to 100% is manageable. The US is nearing the level that should give one pause. Any major disruption in dollar value will send the global economy into a tail spin. Therefore, there is self-interest on the part of the creditors to not disturb the apple cart. Nobody wants $ to fail, least of all the Chinese. So, I think your savings are reasonably safe.

Corruption comes in many different shades. Common folks, doing common activities face corruption in India and perhaps in many poor/developing countries. That is frustrating. But is corruption limited to petty bribe taking. I think corruption is dishonest use of a position of power. Members of the American establishment are pros at this.

Of the $13 trillion national debt, more than a $1 trillion is directly due to the two ongoing wars, of which at least the one in Iraq was sold on lies. Is this not corruption?

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimates long-term cost of the two wars to reach $2.4 trillion by the year 2017. Nobel prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has estimated the cost of the two wars to exceed $3 trillion. The same people who decry mounting national debt gladly fund hundreds of billions to the never ending wars, but stand firm and deny extending benefits to the unemployed. Is this not corruption of some sort?

Two Marine divisions went into Marja and got bogged down. The world's best trained soldiers with the world's most advanced weapons, got bogged down in a small town called Marja. The government-in-a-box never materialized. The "Mayor" was flown into Marja, held a couple of meetings, and flown back out to Kabul.

There are supposed to be between 50 and 100 Al Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan, according to the CIA chief Leon Panetta. The estimated strength of Taliban is 36,000. For this US has spent close to $300 billion in Afghanistan wars, not counting special ops and spending in Pakistan. The GDP of Afghanistan is less than $11 billion and we have already spent close to $300 billion there in military ops. Is this not corruption of something?

In India, the Parliament passes laws like TADA or POTA to expand the powers of the ruling establishment. In America we call the same kind of law, USA Patriot Act. It does the same thing, expand the police powers of the establishment. Now, who in their right mind be against being patriotic? This kind of dishonest corruption affects us all in ways that we cannot even recognize.

Then there is Wall Street corruption. They sold what they themselves were calling as "sh%tty" securities, to their clients, and at the same time shorting them with proprietary trading, i.e. with the deposits of their clients. For doing all this, they get bailed out, and they pay themselves billions of dollars in bonuses, they get to successfully block any meaningful regulation. All this is perfectly legal, legal corruption.

I don't know whether in India private companies can donate unlimited funds to political parties, US corporations can.

I don't know whether in India industry gets to write laws that regulate them, in the U.S. they can, through their vast lobbying network and the revolving door between industry and government.

Ok, let me stop with this, Cheers!

 

[tbs]

hi nara sir,
obama mamavum obami mamium koncham appadi thaan....neenga yanaiya or kudhrai partya?....i think neengal bobby jindal part enreu ninaikkaren...
ellathukkum bathil november election le therium.....

regards
tbs

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Sangom Ji,

May I ask on what basis you are saying that 'US will go down financially and also as a military poer"? And also on what basis you think that the 'sons of soil' fanaticism will immediately raise it's ugly head? I have been living in the US for the past 40 years and please tell me that you understand the American psyche and culture because you have experienced it or is your position derived from too many left wing magazines or being a leftist yourself? The topic of this thread has nothing to do with the American exceptionalism, yet you seem to attack my adopted country without any logic. May I ask you to enumerate?

Regards,
KRS

Something which many people may not agree to today, but which I believe will happen. US will go down financially and also as a military power. Once that reaches certain critical level, the "sons of the soil" fanaticism will immediately raise its ugly head in the US and all the dreams of a glorious America and its culture will vanish as smoke. Indians there will have to bear this in mind and try to save something for the rainy days in India. Note: I am not a canvasser for NRI deposits!

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri Sangom Ji,

May I ask on what basis you are saying that 'US will go down financially and also as a military poer"? And also on what basis you think that the 'sons of soil' fanaticism will immediately raise it's ugly head? I have been living in the US for the past 40 years and please tell me that you understand the American psyche and culture because you have experienced it or is your position derived from too many left wing magazines or being a leftist yourself? The topic of this thread has nothing to do with the American exceptionalism, yet you seem to attack my adopted country without any logic. May I ask you to enumerate?

Regards,
KRS

Dear Shri KRS,

A very pertinent question. My statement is based on two factors; the discussion - through phone talk and personal when he comes here from US - with my son who is there for nearly 19 years. When he said a few years ago that the banks and other financial institutions there (I don't have the names) were being grossly mismanaged and that the Fed was not like RBI in India (I was an employee of RBI and he knew somewhat about how RBI worked), even I did not completely believe him, but it came true. He is of the opinion that militarily US will decline (for reasons which he explained but I am not able to reproduce them now), though its arms industry may be the most advanced. Some of the posts about the present Afghan war and what happened long ago in Vietnam gives room for a person like me to subscribe to my son's view.

As for the US $, this is mostly my opinion. While the statement of Nara viz.,"Any major disruption in dollar value will send the global economy into a tail spin. Therefore, there is self-interest on the part of the creditors to not disturb the apple cart. Nobody wants $ to fail, least of all the Chinese. So, I think your savings are reasonably safe.", may hold good for some more time, it cannot continue for ever. As far as I was able to get data about the debt and surplus of US, it looks that the country is very, very deep down in debts and as a nation it does not have a saving habit, and now, even if some percentage of the populace (our Indians are good at this) saves, it will in all likelihood, go up in smoke because the derivative trading is still strong and the banks continue indisciplined, despite President Obama's sincere attempt. My rough estimate is even if the US reaches an export surplus of modest size say 5 percent of GDP - which will entail its people tightening their belts and saving like mad, it will take many years to repay all its debts. Also, Krugman's view of permissible debt-to-GDP is not seen applied to all countries uniformly and his words may therefore be to make the situation look less alarming for the insiders and so, patriotic. How the fall (tailspin) will start, what will trigger it and what all shapes it will take I cannot predict. I also saw that RBI purchased a good amount of gold from IMF.

As regards, "the sons of the soil theory", what I gathered from my son is that the White Americans are good and friendly and will be so, as long as they get their comfortable life - cheap fuel, cars, and all that goes with the middle class life style there. Inside, however, they are just like any other people and if they start facing shortages/high prices and similar disruption to the comforts they have been accustomed to for long, they will also most likely identify "others" as depriving them of their good life, which is the sons of the soil sentiment. In a way this is my son's assessment of their psyche.

Of course I concede that mine is not an expert's opinion but just as Krugman's pessimism proved right two years ago while others more authoritative quarters were only seeing bright sunshine, it is not improbable that my view may prove correct.

Perhaps if we can read the Chinese mind we will have a clearer answer.

I have no political leanings but I do find, in the Indian context, that the communists of old (not the present lot) had some desirable objectives and many of them sacrificed their lives for it.

I will be very grateful to know your views.

 

[RVR]

Sangom Sir,

My gut feeling is (Again I am not an expert) China will stop further accumulation of the US Dollars. But what is the alternate available for investment? Euro has its own problems but it may come out of woods soon. British economy is in doldrums and pound will not be preferred. Japanese yen seems to be a better alternative but how much yen one can accumulate?

May be physical Gold is another option but again there will limitations of the quantity a country like China hold.

It is a global problem for all the countries having foreign exchange holdings substantially.

For lack of alternatives, dollar may be prefered in the short term.

When India developed a new symbol for Indian Rupee, it is a signal that it is emerging as a reserve currency. Now one can carry Indian rupee to nearby countries like South East Asea, Gulf etc. Sooner it could be carried to other countries also.

China has to make its currency floating and Chinese Yuan will emerge as an alternate currency very soon. Lot of countries will prefer to hold Chinese Yuon to some extent and hungry for US $ and Euro will come down.

It is going to be a long drawn process.

All the best

 

[sangom]

Sangom Sir,

My gut feeling is (Again I am not an expert) China will stop further accumulation of the US Dollars. But what is the alternate available for investment? Euro has its own problems but it may come out of woods soon. British economy is in doldrums and pound will not be preferred. Japanese yen seems to be a better alternative but how much yen one can accumulate?

May be physical Gold is another option but again there will limitations of the quantity a country like China hold.

It is a global problem for all the countries having foreign exchange holdings substantially.

For lack of alternatives, dollar may be prefered in the short term.

When India developed a new symbol for Indian Rupee, it is a signal that it is emerging as a reserve currency. Now one can carry Indian rupee to nearby countries like South East Asea, Gulf etc. Sooner it could be carried to other countries also.

China has to make its currency floating and Chinese Yuan will emerge as an alternate currency very soon. Lot of countries will prefer to hold Chinese Yuon to some extent and hungry for US $ and Euro will come down.

It is going to be a long drawn process.

All the best

Dear RVR,

Please see my reply to KRS, above. The fact that RBI (that means with GOI consent) has gone for buying gold is a good indication. I read in the net some time back that the central reason for Bush going for Iraq was that Iraq had started steps to invoice its oil trade in Euros secretly and EU had also been supportive to it.

The Chinese mind is very very difficult to fathom. What if China turns around one day, revalues its Yuan on the condition that international trade will be transacted by it in Yuans only? Will US be able to do another Iraq with China? If it does, for prestige's sake, let us assume, what will be the result? Again a catastrophe for US and the $, will it not be? That is why I said we should read the Chinese mind.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

.........................................
For lack of alternatives, dollar may be prefered in the short term.

..............................
When India developed a new symbol for Indian Rupee, it is a signal that it is emerging as a reserve currency. Now one can carry Indian rupee to nearby countries like South East Asea, Gulf etc. Sooner it could be carried to other countries also.

All the best

Sri Sangom,Sri RVR,
I also envisage these possibilities.
But, priority is முதல்லே கோடு போட்டு அப்புறம் ரோடு போடறது .

American economy was in ascendant for many years.It is a natural logic that it has to take a retracing from now. World will look at India and China as far as they are growing, their markets are intact, and the cost of production is lesser than other countries. One of these two countries is going to call the shots in future. There is also a possibility that these two competitors may form partnership also.
The best bet for India is its political stability,with a working democracy, English language prevalent in its education system, prevalent and consistent savings habit.

China:
............."Second-quarter gross domestic product grew 10.3% over the same period a year earlier, slowing from the 11.9% annual growth recorded in the first quarter. The size of the nation's economy grew to 17.284 trillion yuan ($2.553 trillion) as a result, according to the National Bureau of Statistics of China."..

US
."Real gross domestic product -- the inflation-adjusted, seasonally adjusted value of all goods and services produced in the U.S. -- rose at a 2.4% annualized rate in the second quarter, well below the average 4.4% increase over the past six months.
The savings rate rose to 6.2%. The weak job market and the debt hangover from the recession are causing consumers to be thrifty, he said. There is also a lack of access to ready credit.."

Source: MarketWatch - Stock Market Quotes, Business News, Financial News

The protectionist policies and legislations in developed economies also point to the direction that these are in the slide and face threat from other economies.


But it will not be very easy for India to become top. Many challenges, inside and outside - in terms of policies, politics, diplomacy, political will, political goal and vision, necessity of a patriotic,India centric(India favouring) agenda in vision of stand in world arena -- all are to be fine tuned and implemented with a firm deadline.... Saying is so easy... But unless it is in drawing board first how can it go ahead?..

Let us hope that Rupee rules one day.

 

[kunjuppu]

for the ruppee or yuan to be considered a trading currency: someday? maybe

i think they should have sufficient strength and credibility endowed in them. i read the toronto globe and mail regularly, and it is always about china. very seldom is india mentioned in the business pages. that does not mean that the elephant does not exist in the room. maybe it is just not acknowledged.

at this point, i think, there is no alternate to the dolla. high value dolla, makes goods cheap for the american, who buys more on credit. hence china & japan accumulate more dolla. low value dolla, means china, japan lose billions of hard earned savings. they will manipulate their currencies and peg it to the dolla, so that their goods become even cheaper, and hence people buy even more.

the alternates, though unlikely to happen, is for china, japan to stop giving credit, stop buying american securities and find markets elsewhere in the world (???).

for the americans, increase savings, stop buying on credit, and revive their manufacturing sector based on the intent of competing with the world, and not feel that they are entitled to good life without hard work.

 

[nachi naga]

it's the american's who are having the last laugh and laughing still to the bank.india or china or japan...have no independent technology of t's own.they may have to some extent,but it's always americans who triumph thinking 10 steps ahead,with various permutation combination,of guranteed success,to maintain the global supremacy,just like how Russians were checkmated from their exalted position as USSR.even these two war's,are calculated risk's taken by President BUsh ,sooner or later,the investment on these two wars will start paying back interest in very long term.despite the momentum gained to bring back troop's,the cost of recovery from these two region's assets will be ensured.all in all,the chinese mind thus far exposed,opposing usa via north korea-opposing india via pakistan-opposing japan directly by infiltrating its domain of marketable goods-challenging usa as to become the biggest consumer of oil from gulf region-research & development on icbm to target nations like usa,russia,france,uk.china is the dark horse in the reckoning.not india,as indians are like the matsyam,slow & steady.

 

[Nara]

....at this point, i think, there is no alternate to the dolla.

K,

money, some say it is the root of all evil .....

cheers!

 

[Nara]

....neenga yanaiya or kudhrai partya?....

ஸார், நான் யானையும் இல்லை, கழுதையும் இல்லை. யானை, கழுதை, ரெண்டையுமே (குட்டி)சுவர் தெருதான் மேச்சிண்டிருக்கு, இதுல யானை என்ன, கழுதை என்ன, எல்லாம் ஒரே குட்டையில ஊறின மட்டைதான்.

நமக்கு அதைவிட்டா வேற போக்கிடம் இல்லைன்னு கழுதைக்கு திமிர். போன தேர்தல்ல நான் நேடருக்கு போட்டேன் என் ஓட்டை.

best wishes ...

 

[nachi naga]

ஸார், நான் யானையும் இல்லை, கழுதையும் இல்லை. யானை, கழுதை, ரெண்டையுமே (குட்டி)சுவர் தெருதான் மேச்சிண்டிருக்கு, இதுல யானை என்ன, கழுதை என்ன, எல்லாம் ஒரே குட்டையில ஊறின மட்டைதான்.

நமக்கு அதைவிட்டா வேற போக்கிடம் இல்லைன்னு கழுதைக்கு திமிர். போன தேர்தல்ல நான் நேடருக்கு போட்டேன் என் ஓட்டை.

best wishes ...

ha ha ha,good one

 

[Nara]

... He is of the opinion that militarily US will decline

Dear Shri sangom,

The world has seen many great empires rise and fall. As they say, what goes up, must come down. Whether it is going to be a soft landing or not is the question.

The most recent empires to come down are the British empire and the Spanish one. Both managed to come out with only their world dominance taken away from them -- though Spain had to suffer through Fascist Franco.

I hope the Americans manage a similar soft landing. They have some factors in their favor, the most important among them is the relatively free immigration policy. It provides rejuvenating new blood, and on the other, it helps dilute the long standing white establishment power structure, ever so slightly. Within a generation US will have more non-whites than whites. IMO, this will make the country more progressive and will help engineer a soft landing.

However, there are counter forces, a couple of them being their sense of American Exceptionalism, city on a hill attitude, and very short historical memory. Each generation has to reinvent the "wheel" so to speak. If you look at the Spanish-American war about 120 years ago, you will see eerie similarities with the Vietnam war and the Iraq war. All three wars were sold to the gullible American people with lies and a colluding and sometimes jingoistic press. If we can keep this tendency in check, USA could settle down to a nation like one of the progressive Western European countries, and let the Chinese rule the world.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Dear Nara,

I think yours is the most realistic expectation all of us can have especially because almost all TBs have one member of their family in the US, either as citizen or as GC holder.

 

[Nara]

Obama's point man to Islamic world, visiting India

Among all the non-spiritual frauds, the US effort to try to win the so called "hearts and minds" of the Islamic world must be the worst.

The very fact that they point to some economic bones they throw their way as deserving of their "hearts and minds" shows how clueless these US policy makers are. It is clear they think of the Islamic world as pesky children who can be mollified with a little lollipop.

This is illustrated by the pointed questioning Rashad Hussain (his parents are of Indian origin), Obama's face to the Mulsim world, was subjected to during his visit to Rizvi College in Bandra, Mumbai. Even more illustrative is Hussain's reaction, which was, get really really upset and then point to the many lollipops US has given.

For more click here.

 

[nachi naga]

Among all the non-spiritual frauds, the US effort to try to win the so called "hearts and minds" of the Islamic world must be the worst.

The very fact that they point to some economic bones they throw their way as deserving of their "hearts and minds" shows how clueless these US policy makers are. It is clear they think of the Islamic world as pesky children who can be mollified with a little lollipop.

This is illustrated by the pointed questioning Rashad Hussain (his parents are of Indian origin), Obama's face to the Mulsim world, was subjected to during his visit to Rizvi College in Bandra, Mumbai. Even more illustrative is Hussain's reaction, which was, get really really upset and then point to the many lollipops US has given.

For more click here.

nara,

from the link rovided,

Rizvi held America responsible for many woes in the Muslim world. "You supplied arms to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, then invaded Iraq in the name of searching for weapons of mass destruction. You created the Taliban with the help of Pakistan. You have been backing Israel ever since its creation. First, right the wrongs that you have created if you want to establish peace in the world,'' said Rizvi to applause from the students.

Read more: Anti-US 'tirade' upsets Obama man - Mumbai - City - The Times of India Anti-US 'tirade' upsets Obama man - Mumbai - City - The Times of India

assuming rizvi is kinda correct,if one analyses carefully,the usa team has been predominantly jesus christ/yahway/allah believers,who dealt with iraq ,pakistan,both these two countries are allah believers.so,if allah believers do not have any understanding amongst themselves,how anyone can blame jesus christ followers namely usa in this particular post and link.

 

[Nara]

While the west-propped Pakistani President Zardari is touring France and UK and his government unable or unwilling to do a whole lot, The Guardian is reporting that the terrorists are front and center extending help to the suffering people. If even the Pakisitani government cannot win the hearts and minds of these people what chance is there for its sponsor, the U.S. of A.

For more, click here.

Cheers!

 

[silverfox]

What I don't understand is that how is it that US Government with all the smart people they have cannot see the double-play of ISI and the Pakistani Army - while giving lip-service to fighting terror with the US and taking billions of dollars - at the same time helping and instigating the taliban and the terrorist organization, Lashkar-e Tayyiba (Army of the Righteous) (LT) (Muridke, Pakistan), to create trouble in Kashmir.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Kunjuppu

Any reason why you purposely spell Dollar as 'Dolla'? I am just curious!

Regarding your observation:
the alternates, though unlikely to happen, is for china, japan to stop giving credit, stop buying american securities and find markets elsewhere in the world (???).

Where can China sell its goods to the tune of billions of dollars? No economy is as big as the American economy. This is like the proverbial adage: 'புலி வாலை பிடித்த மாதிரி - பிடிக்கவும் முடியாது, விடவும் முடியாது!!

China has to keep its manufacturing going to keep those millions of Chinese employed - so they will continue to give credit to the US by buying the US Treasuries! No one knows where this all is going to end!

 

[Nara]

Dear sf, greetings!

.. cannot see the double-play of ISI and the Pakistani Army..

But they do! The problem is the புலி வால் you mention with respect to China parking their FE reserves. If the US presses ISI too much they will only drive them even further towards Taliban. It is a balancing act. The Americans are not very good at that.

... to create trouble in Kashmir.

Kashmir has become the power/control/honor battlefield between India and Pakistan, for which the only people who are paying the price are the Kasmiris. Now, the Indian Army is having to shoot at stone throwing protesters, reminiscent of Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinians.

Often the truth is the first casualty in these circumstances.

There are reports the police beat an 8 year old to death. For details, click here. Even if the police claim that the boy was killed in a stampede is true, it really does not matter -- the report of the police beating the boy to death will only get traction among the Kasahmiri population. This is because of the brutalizing of the population that is inevitable when half a million security personnel are deployed, clamping order over them.

I don't want to get into an argument with Indian patriots on who is right and who is wrong. The bottom line is, the innocent civilians are bearing the brunt of it. I wish the two armies, that of India and Paksitan, will go fight over Sir Creek in the moving marshes and leave poor Kashmiris alone.

Imagine a line cutting across Tamil Nadu, with one portion controlled by India and the other by Sri Lanka, and our families permanently divided. Further imagine Assamees saying India must never give in to Sri Lanka. This is what is happening to ordinary Kashmiris.

We Tamils have nothing to gain or lose from an equitable settlement for the Kashmiris with which the Kashmiris will be happy. Yet, most Tamils go into jingoistic stupor when it comes to Kashmir and Pakistan, egged on by movies like, I can't think of the name, but it is the movie with that asai song.

The Kashmiris blame both India and Pakistan for their situation. If India and Paksitan cannot figure it out, then, IMO, an international panel consisting of Brazil, South Africa, and Turkey, should develop a plan and shame India and Pakistan into accept it.

Jai Hind!!!!

 

[silverfox]

Thank you, Prof. Nara for your observations on Kashmir.

I have been meaning to ask this question but somehow keep forgetting!! I see the Indian-occupied Kashmiris are protesting the Indian 'occupation'. But what about the Kashmiris in the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir? Do they also protest against Pakistan occupying their land? Say, the Indian govt., says to hell with it and give away Kashmir to Kashmiris; will they join Pakistan? With Kashmir land-locked, how will they move about?

I read someplace sometime ago: During conversation with an Israeli General, he pointed out that the Indians were doing everything wrong in Kashmir (rightfully so!). He asked this question: If you say Kashmir is part of India, then why aren't you allowing other non-Kashmiri Indians buying properties and moving there? We would have silently moved Biharis, UPs, and other Indian population so quietly by now you can even ask for a plebiscite!!
In my view Nehru is responsible for all follies India has today in Kashmir; Article 370 should have been scrapped long time ago. It states:
Indian citizens from other states and Kashmiri women who marry men from other states can not purchase land or property in Jammu & Kashmir.[1]
Reference: Article 370 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia