Observing Rituals in Brahmin community

[krish44]

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I will give you three instances of what Happened to me in last one year due to Vadhyars.

1. Engagement for marriage- I could not get a prohithar -there is a south indian temple right opposite my home in delhi- to walk across the road and give me thirty minutes or so

to write and read out the engagement document six months back . I was forced to use TB forum member K.Gopalans draft and write out the same and get it

signed by those entering into engagement. I simply entered the sarva muhurtham for marriage from the net for marriage date.

2. Engagement for marriage -This time in bangalore . The vadhyar after making a commitment did not turn up because he simply forgot. This time , my sons

cook sent her brother in law and a contact of his to perform the role of vadhyar. The original one who made the commitment turned up after two hours after the

engagement was over.


3. Funeral Rites. - A relative passed away a day before. the brahmin priest refused to turn up at home saying it was too far from his location . Taxi fare extra

could not tempt him.He offered to perform the rites at a crematorium at the centre of the city provided it was after 11am for a huge amount. And then turned

up there half an hour

late keeping the dead body and a large number waiting for him. We were on the point of engaging a local pandit at the crematorium .with bad feelings the body

could be cremated, He kept on asking for various items not specified earlier for carryout the cremation. In delhi. crematorium are booked with strict timings

for cremation of bodies, we had to beg for extra time for this vadhyar to do his bit.

If this is the way ,vadhyar community operates [specially vaishnaite vadhyars who are in small number do this], who will call them for anything.

In younger days I have seen my parent who believed in performing rituals suffering due to irresponsible actions of this community '

Now I have little regard for this set of people and always look for alternatives or doing away with them if possible for conducting any event

 

[rishikesan]

Dear Mr.Krish 44, You are absolutely right. If these things occur even in these days of instant communication, Vadhyar or his 2nd assistant must have filled up the gap with no delay, even without the knowledge of Kartha That is how Vadhyars escape blame. In my case in Jabalpur in early Seventies the only Smartha Sastrigal ( an Arrogant- proved man ) did not turn- up till 3/30 PM. I had to drop theDevasam with a heavy Heart & recited peacefully Vishnu Sahasranamam in front of Srinivasa Portrait & then ate with Vadai/ Payasam prepared by my wife then.
I am sure many in remote cities make it a point to plan for such rites in advance & get it done in a place familiar to them for Years & known intimately.
Nenjil eerame Illada Vadyargal are there , I have seen They beget Shapam ?

A. Srinivasan ( Rishikesan )

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Mr.Krish 44, You are absolutely right. If these things occur even in these days of instant communication, Vadhyar or his 2nd assistant must have filled up the gap with no delay, even without the knowledge of Kartha That is how Vadhyars escape blame. In my case in Jabalpur in early Seventies the only Smartha Sastrigal ( an Arrogant- proved man ) did not turn- up till 3/30 PM. I had to drop theDevasam with a heavy Heart & recited peacefully Vishnu Sahasranamam in front of Srinivasa Portrait & then ate with Vadai/ Payasam prepared by my wife then.
I am sure many in remote cities make it a point to plan for such rites in advance & get it done in a place familiar to them for Years & known intimately.
Nenjil eerame Illada Vadyargal are there , I have seen They beget Shapam ?

A. Srinivasan ( Rishikesan )

If you are a Vaishnava, why did you call a Shastrigal and blame him later?

 

[mkrishna100]

.He offered to perform the rites at a crematorium at the centre of the city provided it was after 11am for a huge amount.

That's the key in current context .If you are not ready to spend the Huge amount before itself forget about the Vadhiyar turning for any event . What is that huge amount you may ask . It is for example if the normal assumed fees for any religious event is Rs.5000 , the huge amount is Rs15,000-Rs.20,000 ( i.e 3 to 4 times the normal assumed amount ) . Sometimes they deliberately quote this amount to avoid all those people who are not willing to pay more than Rs.5000 and who may with great reluctance hike up to Rs.7,500 . They( I mean bit competent Vadhyars who have spent around 10 years in this profession ) will make themselves available only for those people who are willing to give the Huge amount . Rest must be content with all the fly by night Vadhiayrs/ or Vadhiyars Assitant to Asssitant to Assistant for this normal fee .

In Current Context Competent Vadhiyars do not like to be treated like daily wage earners like Plumbers / Electricians and wanted to be treated the same way you treat a Lawyer ,Management Consultants.IT Consultants and want their fees also accordingly .
You can get some discount and proper service if you keep that Vadhiar as a family Vadhiyar i.e calling him for all your functions and also recommending him to your close family members .In this way the Vadhiar is also assured that he gets a decent pay and the new person to whom we refer also pays decently without the need to shock them with his Huge amount .

In the end this is also a profession and a dwindling profession and so there is a supply demand problem and only the higest bidder gets the service . Whether we like it or not this is the reality .
The other best option for people in North India is to engage Arya Samaj priests for the same .

 

[krish44]

Dear nkrishna

A vaishnavite vadhyar charges 30-40 percent more the saivite ones.

This one has aspirations of collecting 70-80 thousand for the funeral ceremony including cremation day .10th to 13th day.The price is elastic . It depend on his capacity

to decide how much he can extract from you and what alternate options he has for the day.

Most saivites types charge 35-45 K . some are very professional and business like which I prefer.

Left to myself, I try to do away with vadhyars if possible -like I did for engagement ceremony.I do not do any rituals for annual shraads I donate to various causes and pay for feeding

some poor or put money in temple hundis I have engaged local types in the past for funeral day when vadhyar act hard to get. they are readily available at

crematoriums. Even this time aat the funeral , I tried to tell my relative not to wait and go ahead without success

I cannot make relatives do the same as it is a matter of their faith..

It is easier to give up all together on rituals . Only in engagements or arranged marriages where two parties are involved, One has to agree to some rituals to make

possible alliances

 

[Raji Ram]

You have to update the rates paid by SmarthAs, in metro cities!

My maternal uncle passed away recently in a town in Kerala and since he doesn't have children, another uncle's son did the funeral rites.

Amount spent was around Rs. 8,000/. Later they wanted to shift the rituals (9th to 13th day) to Sing. Chennai and no where they could

spot one sAstrigaL who would perform them for less than Rs. 75,000/. Then the karthA had to avail leave and did the rites in Kerala.

Total amount came to nearly 27,000/ only.

 

[mkrishna100]

Dear Krish Sir

I have a family Vadhiyar for the last 16 years and he is on spot for all the events and we have a very healthy relationship .I pay him well and also respect him for his learning ( I am a Smartha and so is my Vadhyar ) and I also refered him to cousin of mine who moved from Delhi to Chennai few years back and he also has kept him as his family Vadhyar and like me pays him well and I do not recommend him to people who will be reluctant to pay the fees demanded by him but he does not over charge everyone and for one relative of mine who are not in good financial position he charged less on my request . When I first engaged him 16 years back after my father died ,I told him that I value these monthly ammavsaya tarpanam , annual sharddham and also other basic Vedic Ceremonies and I am willing to give generously for the same and the only condition is that he must only come and not send a proxy and he must also honor the time . Till date we have not had a problem as we both understand each other and also have mutual respect / understanding and willing to adapt , adjust , accomodate according to the situation . I have no objections against those who are not interested in doing these rituals or who have an alternate way to honor these monthly , annual events .

I feel that the problem comes mainly where there is no family Vadhiyar concept i.e not even for Annual sharddhams and how can you develop a good understanding with some one whom you call once in a while and that person will make all his best to extract the maximum amount for that one trip as he is unsure whether you will call him again . If you have the family vadhyar concept ( like you have a family Advocate , family Doctor etc ) then this problem can be addressed in a much better way .Of course these days when familes are themselves disintegrating where is the question of family Vadhiyar , family advocate etc etc .

In the end I feel that Vadhyar Profession is also coming down and the available competent Vadhiyars are only interested in offering their service for those events / families where they get a premium amount . For those who are serious in maintaining these rituals regularly better to have a family Vadhyar and pay him generouslyso that you at least have the satisfcation of the rituals being done properly .As I have not engaged any Vaishnavite Vadhyar ,I cannot comment on the same .I am talking about the general Vadhyar situation .

 

[mkrishna100]

Later they wanted to shift the rituals (9th to 13th day) to Sing. Chennai and no where they could

spot one sAstrigaL who would perform them for less than Rs. 75,000/.

True in Chennai for a death be prepared to keep Rs1 Lac for the first 13 days ( for Vadhyar Alone ) .

 

[krish44]

We too had a family vadhyar when my father was alive . He died in nineteen fiftees .His children received good english education and got away from family profession.

The vadhyar association also got disintegrated with a free for all situation. Now I neither wear a thread nor I care for the rituals unless it is forced on me due to marriage

or funeral of others which I happen to attend as a relative or friend.

 

[yesmohan]

At Chennai, many " Vadyars" earn more than software professionals.

 

[tbs]

I will give you three instances of what Happened to me in last one year due to Vadhyars.

1. Engagement for marriage- I could not get a prohithar -there is a south indian temple right opposite my home in delhi- to walk across the road and give me thirty minutes or so

to write and read out the engagement document six months back . I was forced to use TB forum member K.Gopalans draft and write out the same and get it

signed by those entering into engagement. I simply entered the sarva muhurtham for marriage from the net for marriage date.

2. Engagement for marriage -This time in bangalore . The vadhyar after making a commitment did not turn up because he simply forgot. This time , my sons

cook sent her brother in law and a contact of his to perform the role of vadhyar. The original one who made the commitment turned up after two hours after the

engagement was over.


3. Funeral Rites. - A relative passed away a day before. the brahmin priest refused to turn up at home saying it was too far from his location . Taxi fare extra

could not tempt him.He offered to perform the rites at a crematorium at the centre of the city provided it was after 11am for a huge amount. And then turned

up there half an hour

late keeping the dead body and a large number waiting for him. We were on the point of engaging a local pandit at the crematorium .with bad feelings the body

could be cremated, He kept on asking for various items not specified earlier for carryout the cremation. In delhi. crematorium are booked with strict timings

for cremation of bodies, we had to beg for extra time for this vadhyar to do his bit.

If this is the way ,vadhyar community operates [specially vaishnaite vadhyars who are in small number do this], who will call them for anything.

In younger days I have seen my parent who believed in performing rituals suffering due to irresponsible actions of this community '

Now I have little regard for this set of people and always look for alternatives or doing away with them if possible for conducting any event

hi sir,

my experiences of vadhyar in delhi.....my in laws are living in delhi more than 50 yrs....i myself in delhi more than 30 yrs in delhi...

we have AATHU VADHYAR ....so we never had problem...very prompt and sincere...i got married in delhi....we had 4 vadhyars for

my wedding...there is vaishnava vadhyar in sri ranganathar temple and sri venkateswara temple in RK puram....we have vadhyar

associations in sarojini nagar ganesh temple ....i had avani avittam there...the same way in east delhi ...mayir vihar phase 1 and

phase 3 ...a very vadhyar comunity ..readily available....just we need a link with vadhyar comminity....

 

[yesmohan]

In Chennai, "*******" (Regd.) has been distributing free "Panchangam" every year to their members. It contains a list Vadhyars available in the locality, with phone numbers.

 

[krish44]

hi tbsgaru
the ones in mayurvihar are saivite types -they appear to be ok.

the vaishnavite ones as you have mentioned are in south delhi temples.

My another relative told me she was charged 10000 rs for a shradham at one of the temples .you have mentioned. they were only six participants including 4 family

members and prohithar and cook.I do not know if this appears OK. Only I felt it could have been used for a better cause

 

[tbs]

hi tbsgaru
the ones in mayurvihar are saivite types -they appear to be ok.

the vaishnavite ones as you have mentioned are in south delhi temples.

My another relative told me she was charged 10000 rs for a shradham at one of the temples .you have mentioned. they were only six participants including 4 family

members and prohithar and cook.I do not know if this appears OK. Only I felt it could have been used for a better cause

hi

i know 1 vaishnava vadhyar in south delhi temple....i dont know much abt charges....OUR AATHU VADHYAR IN DELHI IS FROM

VIKAS PURI...he is very old man....i know him for more than 30 yrs...

 

[yesmohan]

I do hope some body is running it as a business. They may not offer not more than 3000 / 2500 to the Vadhyar.1500 for materials,1000 for the cook and the rest is their profit.

At GAYA the present charges for the Srarththam is Rs 7000/-

 

[mkrishna100]

My another relative told me she was charged 10000 rs for a shradham at one of the temples .you have mentioned. they were only six participants including 4 family

For a shraddam in an outside place we have to take in to account the following factors :
1) Rent for that place ( even if it is a small room ) - Rs,1,000
2) Lady Cook Labor - Rs.1,500
3) Cooking Materials ( Vegetbales , cooking vessels , Gas and excpet vegetables all other materials are taken on rent )
4) Shraddham Materials
5) Main Vadhyar + 2 extra Vadhyars for eating - Rs.3000 + Rs.2x500 = Rs.4,000
6) Labor for cleaning the place and the cooking vessels after use .

for 3, 4, 6 the cost is not revealed and this is done by a contractor on behalf of the Vadhyar and he charges for the actual cost + his own service charges .

And if you take the total cost for Shraddam as Rs10,000 then the amount for 3, 4, 6 comes to Rs.10,000- ( 1000+1500+4000) = Rs10,000-6,500= Rs.3,500

Actually the cost for 3,4,6 comes far less than Rs3,500 and the extra is pocketed by the Vadhyar & the contractor in case you hand over all the work to him and he treats it as his service charge ( though he does not mention the same ) .

In this process we do not have to strain much and just come to the spot for the Shraddam and leave after 2-3 hours after the rituals are over and after taking the food .

It may look expensive but that is the cost of outsourcing all aspects of the Shraddham to the Vadhyar and you need to just spend 2-3 hrs for doing the ritual .

This time for my father I did by the above method and I came to know from the Lady Cook that many NRIs prefer this method to do it and do not mind paying for the same as in Dollar terms it comes far less for them .

 

[krish44]

For a shraddam in an outside place we have to take in to account the following factors :
1) Rent for that place ( even if it is a small room ) - Rs,1,000
2) Lady Cook Labor - Rs.1,500
3) Cooking Materials ( Vegetbales , cooking vessels , Gas and excpet vegetables all other materials are taken on rent )
4) Shraddham Materials
5) Main Vadhyar + 2 extra Vadhyars for eating - Rs.3000 + Rs.2x500 = Rs.4,000
6) Labor for cleaning the place and the cooking vessels after use .

for 3, 4, 6 the cost is not revealed and this is done by a contractor on behalf of the Vadhyar and he charges for the actual cost + his own service charges .

And if you take the total cost for Shraddam as Rs10,000 then the amount for 3, 4, 6 comes to Rs.10,000- ( 1000+1500+4000) = Rs10,000-6,500= Rs.3,500

Actually the cost for 3,4,6 comes far less than Rs3,500 and the extra is pocketed by the Vadhyar & the contractor in case you hand over all the work to him and he treats it as his service charge ( though he does not mention the same ) .

In this process we do not have to strain much and just come to the spot for the Shraddam and leave after 2-3 hours after the rituals are over and after taking the food .

It may look expensive but that is the cost of outsourcing all aspects of the Shraddham to the Vadhyar and you need to just spend 2-3 hrs for doing the ritual .

This time for my father I did by the above method and I came to know from the Lady Cook that many NRIs prefer this method to do it and do not mind paying for the same as in Dollar terms it comes far less for them .

How it is done economically is that one room of a self occupied flat is made available for sradham. Lady of the house cooks and cleans. male of the house is the

vadhyar who performs the ceremony. Only 2 persons from family desiring shradham turn up and they take food if needed home in tiffin boxes.This is the most

commonly accepted practise in delhi by middle class in delhi

 

[mkrishna100]

This is the most commonly accepted practise in delhi by middle class in delhi

Krishji

There are various methods of doing the shraddham with various rates and what I am talking is one of the methods . There is an objection in many of the apartments for one of the apartments to be regularly used for Shraddam purpose and so this is usually done in Some Mutts / Temples that maintain a separate facility for the same and currently people make use of these outside facility .It is bit expensive but then the individual does not have to extert much strain apart from coming to the spot on time , finishing the rituals in 2-3 hrs and depart after taking lunch and take some shraddham sweets in tiffen box . If everything can be condensed in a small place like what you have mentioned ( instead of the need for outsourcing ) then the cost can come down a lot .

 

[krish44]

Krishji

There are various methods of doing the shraddham with various rates and what I am talking is one of the methods . There is an objection in many of the apartments for one of the apartments to be regularly used for Shraddam purpose and so this is usually done in Some Mutts / Temples that maintain a separate facility for the same and currently people make use of these outside facility .It is bit expensive but then the individual does not have to extert much strain apart from coming to the spot on time , finishing the rituals in 2-3 hrs and depart after taking lunch and take some shraddham sweets in tiffen box . If everything can be condensed in a small place like what you have mentioned ( instead of the need for outsourcing ) then the cost can come down a lot .

In outlying areas of delhi city, one follows the practice I have described . Mostly Rooms in govt run hostel ,one room tenements or Low income group flats of Delhi

development authority get used. delhi is such a place ,neighbours do not care about what happens next door.so no issue of objections.

In chennai I have seen separate houses or facilities in madipakkam and triplicane where shradhams are performed. more than one take place on the same day also

there. These are dedicated facilities, It is a business like any other in the city.

 

[vgane]

In Mumbai we had gone to Dombivili...The ceremony was in the Priests ground floor flat...They organized everything...Priests wife officiated as the cook

 

[yesmohan]

In chennai I have seen separate houses or facilities in madipakkam and triplicane where shradhams are performed. more than one take place on the same day also

In Chennai, in west Mambalam, Sankara madam is there. Nearly 10 small individual buildings each with a kitchen, bath room and a hall are available. On a day, 10 families could perform shraddams.
Totally they Charged me Rs. 2500/- in 2008. Now they may be charging around Rs. 5000/-. as Sankaramadam is not a profit making organisation. It is only 1/2 a KM from T.Nagar bus stand via Madley sub-way.

 

[mkrishna100]

Totally they Charged me Rs. 2500/- in 2008. Now they may be charging around Rs. 5000/-. as Sankaramadam is not a profit making organisation.

True at Sankara Madam , they charge less but then you need to book in advance and will never get in short notice .

 

[yesmohan]

In Sankara madam I booked only 4 days in advance.
One more advantage is they will arrange Vadhyar who knows prayohams our Soodhram.