Pleasure, Happiness, Bliss

[sravna]

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The three types of positive feelings of pleasure, happiness and bliss correspond to the physical, mental and spiritual feelings respectively. Pleasure , happiness and bliss are all due to positive experiences but the duration of such feelings because of the experiences vary dramatically. It is shortest in the case of pleasure which lasts only during the actual experience itself, and longest in the case of bliss which is permanent. Happiness comes in between.

Pleasure is because of the physical stimuli and so once those stimuli are removed it ceases. Unlike pleasure, happiness is due to intangible stimuli and lasts longer as the effects of the stimuli stay longer. But happiness depends considerably on the personality of the person. If the person is selfish there is a constant need for such stimuli unlike in the case of a less selfish person who can do with less of such stimuli.

Bliss is something that happens when you do not need any external stimuli. You are totally self sufficient and so nothing external can take away your peace unlike in the case of happiness and pleasure. The more a person is spiritual in nature, the more the positive feelings of happiness and pleasure is built-in in the feelings of the person which you experience as bliss.

 

[prasad1]

The nature of Brahman is "SAT CHIT ANANDA" or satchidananda.
True Knowledge is bliss.

 

[renuka]

The three types of positive feelings of pleasure, happiness and bliss correspond to the physical, mental and spiritual feelings respectively. Pleasure , happiness and bliss are all due to positive experiences but the duration of such feelings because of the experiences vary dramatically. It is shortest in the case of pleasure which lasts only during the actual experience itself, and longest in the case of bliss which is permanent. Happiness comes in between.

Pleasure is because of the physical stimuli and so once those stimuli are removed it ceases. Unlike pleasure, happiness is due to intangible stimuli and lasts longer as the effects of the stimuli stay longer. But happiness depends considerably on the personality of the person. If the person is selfish there is a constant need for such stimuli unlike in the case of a less selfish person who can do with less of such stimuli.

Bliss is something that happens when you do not need any external stimuli. You are totally self sufficient and so nothing external can take away your peace unlike in the case of happiness and pleasure. The more a person is spiritual in nature, the more the positive feelings of happiness and pleasure is built-in in the feelings of the person which you experience as bliss.

Dear Sravna,

I agree to a certain extent on what you wrote with a just a bit modifications here and there.

We need examples:

Ok Pleasure..you are right..you need a stimuli..not always physical but even a mental stimuli will give immense pleasure.

Examples of Physical Stimuli.

1)Sexual Relationships
2)Self Gratification
3)Watching Uncensored Videos
4)Reading "juicy" stories
5)Hearing suggestive stuff.
6)Taking Morphine/Marijuana
7)Taking Alcohol

Mental Stimuli

1)Imagining something with someone..where imagination runs wild.

When Pleasure is felt..it releases Endorphins..body's feel good hormones and then everyone feels as if they are in cloud 9/Seventh Heaven etc..at that time the body experiences immense "high" feeling before coming down to ground level.

Ok next is Happiness.

Happiness is the innate state of all human beings.
People only ask us "Why are you sad"
No one asks us "Why are you happy" unless someone is Euphoric!LOL

Happiness in this mundane world is to a certain extent dependent on intrinsic and extrinsic factors.

The Happiness Index is largely influenced by the following:

1)Good health
2)Steady income
3)Happy marriage/relationships
4)Some amount of wealth.

Now coming to Bliss..this is a most commonly abused word cos it is really hard to define Bliss.

What exactly is Bliss?

Bliss is a component of Sat Cit Ananda as we all know but how does it actually feel?
I do not agree that Bliss is Positive feelings cos when there is Positive there is bound to be Negative and as long as duality persists Bliss as in Ananda is not felt.

In this world what we really feel is Relative Happiness or Relative Sadness cos there is always a comparison with a previous incident.

There is a saying in Sanskrit that goes "Even water tastes sweet after a person has taken bitter astringent medication and even a a little happiness feels like bliss after an episode of sorrow"

So that only goes to show that every feeling of happiness or sadness is relatively speaking.

So Bliss has to be a state where Duality and Relativity ceases to exists and that feeling can ONLY be felt when one verily becomes Brahman.

Till then I guess none of us really knows Bliss.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I agree to a certain extent on what you wrote with a just a bit modifications here and there.

We need examples:

Ok Pleasure..you are right..you need a stimuli..not always physical but even a mental stimuli will give immense pleasure.

Examples of Physical Stimuli.

1)Sexual Relationships
2)Self Gratification
3)Watching Uncensored Videos
4)Reading "juicy" stories
5)Hearing suggestive stuff.
6)Taking Morphine/Marijuana
7)Taking Alcohol

Mental Stimuli

1)Imagining something with someone..where imagination runs wild.

When Pleasure is felt..it releases Endorphins..body's feel good hormones and then everyone feels as if they are in cloud 9/Seventh Heaven etc..at that time the body experiences immense "high" feeling before coming down to ground level.

Ok next is Happiness.

Happiness is the innate state of all human beings.
People only ask us "Why are you sad"
No one asks us "Why are you happy" unless someone is Euphoric!LOL

Happiness in this mundane world is to a certain extent dependent on intrinsic and extrinsic factors.

The Happiness Index is largely influenced by the following:

1)Good health
2)Steady income
3)Happy marriage/relationships
4)Some amount of wealth.

Now coming to Bliss..this is a most commonly abused word cos it is really hard to define Bliss.

What exactly is Bliss?

Bliss is a component of Sat Cit Ananda as we all know but how does it actually feel?
I do not agree that Bliss is Positive feelings cos when there is Positive there is bound to be Negative and as long as duality persists Bliss as in Ananda is not felt.

In this world what we really feel is Relative Happiness or Relative Sadness cos there is always a comparison with a previous incident.

There is a saying in Sanskrit that goes "Even water tastes sweet after a person has taken bitter astringent medication and even a a little happiness feels like bliss after an episode of sorrow"

So that only goes to show that every feeling of happiness or sadness is relatively speaking.

So Bliss has to be a state where Duality and Relativity ceases to exists and that feeling can ONLY be felt when one verily becomes Brahman.

Till then I guess none of us really knows Bliss.

Dear Renuka,

Good analysis.

Now in the case of mental stimuli giving rise to pleasure, it happens only because the mental stimuli play the role of the physical stimuli. So the duration of the positive feelings is only the duration the stimulus.

May be I used the term positive in the case of bliss a bit loosely. But what I meant was desirable feelings.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Good analysis.

Now in the case of mental stimuli giving rise to pleasure, it happens only because the mental stimuli play the role of the physical stimuli. So the duration of the positive feelings is only the duration the stimulus.

May be I used the term positive in the case of bliss a bit loosely. But what I meant was desirable feelings.

Dear Sravna,

Actually it is practically impossible to concentrate or think without having a mental impression.

In cases of normal persons with all senses intact..when we think it is most of the while a visual impression.

Even in those who swear that they are 100% praying to the formless aspect of God..they are actually focusing on a mental impression of something or the other.

In those who are visually impaired..an auditory or tactile stimuli forms a mental impression.

Now coming to DESIRABLE feelings??

What exactly is Desirable feelings?

Won't it differ from person to person? So here again we have a relatively speaking situation.

At the stage of Bliss there should not be anymore desire isn't it?

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Let me elaborate on what I meant. In the case of bliss you are insured against sorrow as bliss is something that lasts forever. Only realized souls can achieve that state. As you go from pleasure to bliss, the intensity of the feelings come down but the duration of the feelings increase and the in these extreme cases of pleasure and bliss duration is from only at that instant to eternal respectively.

 

[sravna]

The difference is the difference between the feeling of an orgasm and the feeling that comes when being totally unmoved by sexual stimuli. The difficulty of the latter is exemplified in the case where even the venerable Vishwamitra fell to that allurement

 

[tks]

This is a comment for those casual readers who are mildly curious about basis of Hindu thoughts.

The OP is an expression of a belief system appropriate for preaching and hence outside the purview of reason, reasonableness and teaching. Also this has nothing to do with what is taught in our root scriptures which is about knowledge.

My comment is not meant to stifle discussions since forum such as this enables sharing each others belief system. So I hope many participate and express their views just like I did mine.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Let me elaborate on what I meant. In the case of bliss you are insured against sorrow as bliss is something that lasts forever. Only realized souls can achieve that state. As you go from pleasure to bliss, the intensity of the feelings come down but the duration of the feelings increase and the in these extreme cases of pleasure and bliss duration is from only at that instant to eternal respectively.

Objection your Honour!

You see Sravna, Sorrow is Absence of Happiness just like how Darkness is the Absence of Light.

Sorrow on its own does not exists and it is the absence of Happiness that makes us experience Sorrow.
As I said earlier Happiness is our Innate nature.
I hope you get what I am trying to say here.

So there is no such thing as Bliss insures you against Sorrow.
Bliss is Bliss on it's own accord.

 

[renuka]

The difference is the difference between the feeling of an orgasm and the feeling that comes when being totally unmoved by sexual stimuli. The difficulty of the latter is exemplified in the case where even the venerable Vishwamitra fell to that allurement

Dear Sravna,

In the 1st case..orgasm happened and the high feeling is experienced.

In the 2nd case where one is unmoved by sexual stimuli these are the possible reasons:

1)The seducer is not attractive
2)The person concerned has just finished one act and is in plateau phase so not keen to be seduced again.
3)Fear of STD/HIV
4)A married person might fear if his/her spouse finds out
5)Impotency/Frigidity

So a person resisting sexual stimuli might appear unmoved but he/she might actually have any of the above reasons.

Now.. very few people are JITENDRIYA ..who have gone beyond senses and sensual pleasure means nothing to them.These people are rare to find.

Hey BTW poor Vishwamitra yaar..for one episode in his life till now people hammer him for this.
Don't forget that it is him who coined the Gayatri Mantra.

He showed the world that at anytime in any stage of spiritual realization..one can succumb to temptations.
So that way we can salute him for showing us the way to overcome temptations.

If tempted by anything..stop..take a break..and then continue your pursuit in self realization.

 

[tbs]

hi
five karmendriya sugam....pleasure

five jnanendriya sugam....happiness....

sugamapi swapsam na kinchit vedisham.....bliss

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

I am sure you understood what I meant by being unmoved by sexual stimuli. Why bring in the other reasons.

Renuka, I am not trying to play with semantics here. When I say that bliss insures you against sorrow , I mean when you reach that stage you are unmoved by anything and only a feeling of tranquility always exists. You may argue with me if I call that state as positive or desirable but the larger point that I wanted to make is, it is something that is analogous to pleasure and happiness

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I am sure you understood what I meant by being unmoved by sexual stimuli. Why bring in the other reasons.

Renuka, I am not trying to play with semantics here. When I say that bliss insures you against sorrow , I mean when you reach that stage you are unmoved by anything and only a feeling of tranquility always exists. You may argue with me if I call that state as positive or desirable but the larger point that I wanted to make is, it is something that is analogous to pleasure and happiness

Dear Sravna,

Don't get me wrong..when it comes to discussing religious matters one has to be very specific and we can not afford to beat around the bush.

Unmoved by sexual stimuli has many reasons and stages.
No one is born a Jitendriya over night hence I wrote many reasons where a person could remain apparently unmoved.

Yes I still object to the usage of the word insures against sorrow cos by saying so we are giving sorrow an existence when in reality sorrow is just absence of happiness.

I do not blame you for the usage of the term insures against sorrow cos we Indians tend to view some situations as bad luck where we believe that bad luck jumps on us for sometime and we do pariharams to ward it off..so we have been trained to think that bad luck/sorrow is lurking out there waiting to jump on us.

But from an Advaitic point of view..you very well know this is not true and everything in this world is just experiences of various facets of duality till we free ourselves from it and become verily One.

Sravna..now you are using a new term.."analogous to pleasure and happiness"..that means we are yet creating and creating terminologies.

 

[sangom]

I have no comments on pleasure and happiness, because almost all human beings will have experienced both, even during a short life time. (They need not have even become major, to understand these, imo.) Circumstances/reasons for a person feeling pleasure or happiness also will vary immensely I suppose and it may not be fully correct to codify those as based purely on physical stimulii, mental stimulii, etc.

IMO, what the OP tries to project is the usual triad of satva-rajas-tamas but here as topsy turvy; pleasure is sought to correspond with tamas, happiness to rajas and so, by elimination, bliss is satva!
Now, bliss, as Smt. Renuka correctly said, is the elusive "golden deer" of our vedanta or, more properly, Uttarameemaamsa. In the rigveda the rishis of yore did not talk about bliss; they were more earthy and practical and so they did not have the concept of "bliss". "bliss" came into hindu philosophy along with the concept of 'Brahman'. Brahman being the root cause of everything including the human self, an experience of that Brahman had naturally to be the most rewarding experience one can have; so our later day composers of Upanishads picked up the word "aanandam" to describe this. This word is said to be from the root 'nad'=sound, and aananda means in Sanskrit, happiness, joy, enjoyment, sexual pleasure, etc. When we read Upanishadic statements such as "आनन्दो ब्रह्मेतिव्यजानात् । आनन्दाद्येव खलु इमानि भूतानि जायन्ते । आनन्देन जातानि जीवन्ति । आनन्दं प्रयन्ति अभिसंविशन्तीति । (ānando brahmetivyajānāt | ānandādyeva khalu imāni bhūtāni jāyante | ānandena jātāni jīvanti | ānandaṃ prayanti abhisaṃviśantīti |)" etc., we get an impression that the sage was perhaps not differentiating aanandam from the usual kind of happiness and pleasure experienced by different kinds of living beings. (though orthodox interpretation of these lines try to say that Brahmaanandam is the underlying layer on which the entire universe is.)

You will thus see that happiness, pleasure, bliss, aananda are all one and the same but, because of our ignorance, we continue to believe that the box of Brahman or Aatmajnaana (whatever that means, because I personally believe that this is an impossibility) has some as yet unknown kind of happiness in it.

Buddha possibly was reluctant to dwell on such topics but buddhists in a subsequent period, the Maadhyamaka Buddhism, developed "Soonyavaada" according to which the Ultimate Truth is nothing but a void, emptiness, etc. IMO, this may be an off-shoot of Upanishadic Vedanta, but if we assume advaita as our basis, it stands to reason that a Brahman which is devoid of all and any qualities, (absolutely nirguna) has to be more in the nature of a void than of an as yet unexperienced bliss or aananda. The reason why our vedantic acharyas preferred the concept of aananda may be that the promise of "sunyata" or voidness to be achieved, will be simply unattractive to any person and will naturally repel him/her from trying to attain that stage.

It looks to me therefore, that any attempt at gradation of human happiness or pleasure merely on the basis of such synonymous words will be a futile exercise. It may be more worthwhile to classify human happiness/pleasure on the basis of the causes thereof and also bear in mind that any opinion about "bliss" or Brahmaananda is only speculative and hence it will be wiser not to include that in our mundane discussions.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Pleasure is something which cannot be sustained without an external stimulus. But anything external is not always under our control. You need to have the means to create pleasure for yourself. That is where the mind comes in. You use it to get the physical comforts that you desire and the physical gratifications that you want to have. If you do that in addition to making it possible to have pleasure for yourself, you derive happiness too.

But happiness derived out of satisfying one's material aspirations is a primitive one and needs the constant presence of the external stimuli to last. There is an evolved happiness which is derived out of performing actions that are morally desirable. This one lasts longer but still has the possibility of being smothered if people are being mean and wicked to you in spite of being good to them.

Bliss is one when you have transcended the above stages and nothing affects you and this gives a feeling of tranquility. It is a feeling that arises because of your ability to rise above the temporal matters and see only the enduring.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sravna Sir,

The topic is quite interesting to me. And, I experience all the three while teaching music.

1. It is a pleasure to receive my students and teach them.

2. I feel happy when I sing and when my students are able to repeat what I teach.

3. Very rarely I get the near-God-feeling while singing some lines and I consider that feeling as bliss!

It is as simple as that.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna Sir,

The topic is quite interesting to me. And, I experience all the three while teaching music.

1. It is a pleasure to receive my students and teach them.

2. I feel happy when I sing and when my students are able to repeat what I teach.

3. Very rarely I get the near-God-feeling while singing some lines and I consider that feeling as bliss!

It is as simple as that.

Dear Smt.RR,

I think it is a touch of the divine that causes bliss.You are indeed blessed

 

[sangom]

Objection your Honour!

You see Sravna, Sorrow is Absence of Happiness just like how Darkness is the Absence of Light.

Sorrow on its own does not exists and it is the absence of Happiness that makes us experience Sorrow.
As I said earlier Happiness is our Innate nature.
I hope you get what I am trying to say here.

So there is no such thing as Bliss insures you against Sorrow.
Bliss is Bliss on it's own accord.

If "Happiness is our Innate nature", sorrow has to be something imposed upon this innate nature.

 

[prasad1]

It looks to me therefore, that any attempt at gradation of human happiness or pleasure merely on the basis of such synonymous words will be a futile exercise. It may be more worthwhile to classify human happiness/pleasure on the basis of the causes thereof and also bear in mind that any opinion about "bliss" or Brahmaananda is only speculative and hence it will be wiser not to include that in our mundane discussions.

Very well said.
But without the promise of Bliss, it seems the path of self realization leads us nowhere.

 

[sangom]

Very well said.
But without the promise of Bliss, it seems the path of self realization leads us nowhere.

My dear Prasad,

Whenever we say "self-realization", I think it refers to realizing the Brahman as the underlying principle in every living being, and not about realizing the self as depicted by our feeling of "I" ness, such as 'I am so-and-so', etc. If once we keep aside all the statements of our scriptures and imagine a universal Field which manifests as "Life" (and I think this should be possible for anyone who has passed the +2 class in India today) we come to the intellectual understanding of this Field; by continuous deep contemplation of such a Field which provides the "Life" alone in our body, and not the "I"ness even, it is possible to get momentary flashes of that Field. I tend to believe that, that state should correspond more to the sunyata of Maadhyamika Buddhism coupled with the peacefulness coming out of such a feeling of complete void, rather than any state of bliss as promised by our religious lore.

Thus, even without a reward of some notional bliss, the path of self-realization can be a valid incentive for people to venture into, if they are told that all sufferings (and happinesses) in this world can be ended by such an adventure successfully completed. This is the Truth, but how many will like to forgo the pleasures of this world? Hence it is very very difficult to end "samsaara", imho.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Pratibha, Sahaja and Samarasa which are related even in meaning, interlocking with each other and together form the 'Holy Trinity' of liberation.

That is what we should aim for.

 

[prasad1]

My dear Prasad,

Whenever we say "self-realization", I think it refers to realizing the Brahman as the underlying principle in every living being,

That is what I meant. Sorry if that message did not come through.

 

[Raghy]

The three types of positive feelings of pleasure, happiness and bliss correspond to the physical, mental and spiritual feelings respectively. Pleasure , happiness and bliss are all due to positive experiences but the duration of such feelings because of the experiences vary dramatically. It is shortest in the case of pleasure which lasts only during the actual experience itself, and longest in the case of bliss which is permanent. Happiness comes in between.

Pleasure is because of the physical stimuli and so once those stimuli are removed it ceases. Unlike pleasure, happiness is due to intangible stimuli and lasts longer as the effects of the stimuli stay longer. But happiness depends considerably on the personality of the person. If the person is selfish there is a constant need for such stimuli unlike in the case of a less selfish person who can do with less of such stimuli.

Bliss is something that happens when you do not need any external stimuli. You are totally self sufficient and so nothing external can take away your peace unlike in the case of happiness and pleasure. The more a person is spiritual in nature, the more the positive feelings of happiness and pleasure is built-in in the feelings of the person which you experience as bliss.

Dear Sri. Sravna, Greetings.

Personally, I am not able to accept the OP. In my opinion, pleasure, happiness and bliss are one and the same with different names. I can't differentiate bewtween them. I never got the true meaning of the word 'spiritual'.... Instead of physical, mental and spiritual, I would like to look at physical, psychological and emotional.

Listening is one of the physical senses. There are songs I listened to that were just bliss...... So nice, they would just bring tears while I am listening to those songs. Although it may be just a physical sense, those songs bring bliss when I listen to them.

I feel sexual pleasure is underrated in this thread. Sexual pleasure is not just coupulating.... with the right partner, it is much more than that. There are huge psychological and emotional elements attached to the act of sex. That is in the case of just simple straight forward sexual act between the right couple..... for some couple, such act can be much more than that.

Positive feeling and negative feelings are subjective. Pain sometimes means pleasure; height of pleasure can very well be pain! For example, if one touches the nerve endings on a body ( there are parts with bundles of nerve endings... as much as 8,000 nerve endings at one point!) with an ice cube, he/she would just jump! hot and cold leaves the same feeling on the skin.... cold is but temporary.. in that situation in a controlled setting, pain applied transforms into pleasure.... on the other hand, he/she after the pleasure ready to peak... but held at that point denying the peaking..... to make it worst, external stimuli is applied to increase the pleasure... that is really pain! ( by the way holding at that point is the sense control. Not refusing to have pleasure! Anyone can do that... That's just child's play, really. Holding at the peak and denying the body that satisfaction at that unstoppable point is the real control).

I could be wrong, but we don't do anything unless we get physical, psychological and emotional satisfaction. I don't see any difference between pleasure, happiness or bliss... they are the one and the same.

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Raghy,

There may be a number of ways to classify feelings. But what I am saying is , based on the permanence of the feelings, we can classify it as pleasure, happiness and bliss. This simply corresponds to our common sense experience except of course when we talk of bliss, which in the true sense is very very rare.

 

[renuka]

If "Happiness is our Innate nature", sorrow has to be something imposed upon this innate nature.

Dear Sangom ji,

The Sun can be veiled by a cloud and we do not feel the sunlight.

So the cloud of experiences in the world can veil our true innate nature of happiness and we feel the pangs of sorrow
Sorrow is not superimposed..and neither is sorrow the cloud.

I think I am starting to sound confusing..that's a good sign to be a Mataji soon.
The best Gurujis are those who keep their Bhaktas in a confused state of mind!LOL