Portuguese Rule in India.

[Brahmanyan]

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GOA a daughter's story.
Ms. Maria Aurora Couto, recipient of Padma Shri in 2010, is a writer and an educationist. Her book "Goa: A Daughter's Story", an Autobiographical book weaves through the cultural and religious history of Goa, analyses the state of the tiny state from pre-liberation Portuguese regime till date. In her book the author investigates "historical crises of migration, invasion, conversion and flight. With her, we trace the gradual assimilation of the Catholic Saraswat Brahmin into the Portuguese language and European world-view"

Here is a piece of information copied from this extraordinary story:

Pensao de Shendy - Tax on Tuft of hair.
"The contradictions and paradoxes of Portuguese policies in Goa seem incomprehensible given the authorities taxed and repressed the very community on whom they depended for economic and political support. For instance a capitation tax was levied on the Hindus until the late 18th century. It was called Pensao de Shendy. The community was penalized for the traditional male custom of sporting a tuft of hair (the shendy) on an otherwise bald head.
This tuft, a long braid of hair, in fact became the distinguishing mark of the community after the divisions in society created by conversion."

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[sarang]

What other atrocities committed on brahmins?

 

[kunjuppu]

the portuguese and the spaniards of the era from columbus (1492) till about 1800s when the spanish empire declined, have been the most cruel, racist, mass murderers in history.

all this, they did, under the aegis of the catholic church of those times. it is estimated that half the population of philipines died, (muslims), while the other half converted to catholicism. the entire caribbean races were wiped out through slavery and diseases. as were most south american natives.

it is not fair to blame today's portugal or spain or today's catholic church for those crimes. all the three, have apologized. this can be compared to the brahminism of the till recent. except brahmins even today feel, that no wrong was done by our ancestors. as was loudly and solidly propounded in this very forum.

so let us not get worked up over crimes that happened centuries ago. when we as a community cannot understand the crimes done in the name of manu and brahminism, till a few years ago.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Sri Sarang,

"GOA a daughter's story" is a very well researched book on the trials and tribulations the Hindu Community
have to face during the Portuguese rule in Goa. The author herself belongs to Saraswath Brahmin linage of Roman Catholic Converts. She has given an honest account of historical compulsions that the agrarian Brahmin Community had to undergo during the onslaught of Portuguese from fifteenth century on the Konkan coast.
The Review of the book by The Hindu is available in the following weblink:
The Hindu : Apparent divide, actual bridges

In fact I am reading the book for the second time now.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Sri Sarang,

"GOA a daughter's story" is a very well researched book on the trials and tribulations the Hindu Community
have to face during the Portuguese rule in Goa. The author herself belongs to Saraswath Brahmin linage of Roman Catholic Converts. She has given an honest account of historical compulsions that the agrarian Brahmin Community had to undergo during the onslaught of Portuguese from fifteenth century on the Konkan coast.
The Review of the book by The Hindu is available in the following weblink:
The Hindu : Apparent divide, actual bridges

In fact I am reading the book for the second time now.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

dear brahmanyan,

there is an interesting footnote to this conversion. even today, goanese brahmins have castes. not loudly proclaimed. the brahmins catholics only marry among themselves. ... and so on.

i dont know how far this is kept up in this day and age. but was, until 1960s, very much in vogue. is this addressed in this book?

 

[amala]

This is a genre close to my heart while choosing reading material. Many many people think the British are awful, they haven't experienced anything like the Spanish or the Catholic (as i like to call it) Inquisition! The conquistadors, the witchhunting where millions of women were killed for just disliking your neighbour and so on! You could just be dragged to be tortured (eventually dead/burnt at the stake) simply because your relative/neighbour can't stand you.

Re goans having castes, even the Maharashtrian East Indians (they are nothing but Marathi Catholics wanting to differentiate themselves from Goan Catholics) have castes, despite being Catholic and looking down on Hindus, they are proud to be Brahmins! Its still very much in vogue with the crowd I know personally in London (Who never fail to remind me that they only bestow their company on me due to my caste...in jest! naturally)

 

[amala]

it is not fair to blame today's portugal or spain or today's catholic church for those crimes. all the three, have apologized. this can be compared to the brahminism of the till recent. except brahmins even today feel, that no wrong was done by our ancestors. as was loudly and solidly propounded in this very forum.

so let us not get worked up over crimes that happened centuries ago. when we as a community cannot understand the crimes done in the name of manu and brahminism, till a few years ago.

Can I just add that nothing has changed much in todays Spain and Portugal. They are still far more racist than Western Europe. I speak to Latin American immigrants pretty often and when i ask why are you here instead of Spain/Portugal (their "mother" country) they tell me about how racist the Southern Europeans can be to Latin/South Americans, especially the mestizo/mullato types. You'd think same language no issues...but reality is way different. If one follows football (soccer) its very obvious how black/coloured players are treated in Southern Europe by the spectators!

 

[kunjuppu]

This is a genre close to my heart while choosing reading material. Many many people think the British are awful, they haven't experienced anything like the Spanish or the Catholic (as i like to call it) Inquisition! The conquistadors, the witchhunting where millions of women were killed for just disliking your neighbour and so on! You could just be dragged to be tortured (eventually dead/burnt at the stake) simply because your relative/neighbour can't stand you.

Re goans having castes, even the Maharashtrian East Indians (they are nothing but Marathi Catholics wanting to differentiate themselves from Goan Catholics) have castes, despite being Catholic and looking down on Hindus, they are proud to be Brahmins! Its still very much in vogue with the crowd I know personally in London (Who never fail to remind me that they only bestow their company on me due to my caste...in jest! naturally)

the english were the bulwark against the domination/spred of papism and inquisition. england under henry VIII provided the lead, and queen elizabeth I took the lead against philip of spain, starting the eventual but long (2 centuries) decline of the spanish empire. while england ascended into the british empire.

england was also, along with luther, the cause of the reformation in europe which was protestant. only a century later, the catholic church loosened its clutch and the counter reformation started in italy.

both islam and christianity battled their worst, not in south/western europe, but in the east, against russia & the cossacks. those wars, unfortunately, are not well known inthe english speaking world. in those wars, there were no prisoners. everyone fought to death.

eventually this blocked the spread of islam in armenia, georgia, the caucasus..all of which even now, fear turkey, and have grateful to slav russia. same goes for eastern europe including romania, bulgaria and the balkans. pockets of europe like the bosnians as a whole, converted to islam, to protect themselves from the serbs by the turks. which is the seed for the current bosnian kosovo troubles. ethnically bosnians serbs slovenians macedonians are all the same. anyway i can go on and on..

 

[amala]

Henry had an agenda...remarriage, divorce, Anne Boleyn. All for the best really. I love reformation! You know where I'm from and even in Science stream History was a must, compulsory subject and most of it was boringgg Islamic history, so the bits of reformation, renaissance were like a drop of water (not even an oasis!) for the lost parched dying of thirst traveller! Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli....oh those were the days! Mann Kunjuppu mama you've made me nostalgic about my schooling days.

You say Islam fought its worst in South Europe, I suppose you mean the moors and then the crusade. They may have lost but they have left a mark and their culture and cuisine behind with those racist Portuguese/Spaniards which always amuses me. You never know which one of em has moorish blood! Pointing it out is all the more fun. All I can say about Islam is, where I'm from it was spread very very very peacefully mostly through traders and all. We cannot relate to the northern Indian Muslim colonisation as it were.

My last word on this would be "protestant", because they protested against the corruption, immorality, nastiness of the Catholic church at the time, and rightly so. I should imagine Protestants would be very proud to be called so.

 

[amala]

ethnically bosnians serbs slovenians macedonians are all the same. a

So Just like the Punjabi Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims! Not very different from the Cypriot Greeks and the Cypriot Turks I meet, yet sooo much enmity. I don't want to get started on Armenia. People know all about the Jews massacre but how many know about the Armenian millions killed by the Turks or even care? If it weren't for Kim Kardashian, how many of the vox populi/ or the hoi polloi even heard of the term Armenian?

 

[kunjuppu]

You say Islam fought its worst in South Europe, I suppose you mean the moors and then the crusade.

...

dear amala,

no. i mean in the 1400s to 1700s when the turkish empire was spreading westwards, gobbling up southern europe and the caucasus. at the same time the tsarist russian empire waas moving westward and south - gobbling up most of kazakhstan turkmenistan uzbekstan ie all muslim central asian tribes, vast in size and thinly populated. armenia georgia were small xtian state scared of turks and appealed to mother russia to protect them.

probably taught only in russia and turkey these days

 

[krish44]

great lessons from kunjuppuji and amalaji on european history over the centuries on a post on portuguese rule in india.
somewhere there is a comment about islam brought by traders from arab countries was spread peacefully in south of india.- how far is it correct. in maldives the country of malayali,lankan settlers originally with malayali script in vogue until a couple of centuries back became totally muslim with arabic script not by choice alone. there were muslim kings in south who forced their religion on the masses. in north the spread of muslim was by harsh methods.no conversion takes place by free choice alone. the degree of force/coersion varies.
as for sarswath brahmins getting converted to christianity, it is interesting that they could change their religion and yet preferred to keep their hindu caste preferences intact since they were brahmins. dalits are also unable to get rid of their caste on the other hand by conversion to other religions.

 

[Brahmanyan]

dear brahmanyan,

there is an interesting footnote to this conversion. even today, goanese brahmins have castes. not loudly proclaimed. the brahmins catholics only marry among themselves. ... and so on.

i dont know how far this is kept up in this day and age. but was, until 1960s, very much in vogue. is this addressed in this book?

Dear Sri Kunjuppu,

Yes, the author of this book describes the Social History of Goa in all its aspects. I like her unbiased approach to the subject. I wish you should read the book when you have time.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[tbs]

hi
the kerala christian/goan christians are tradionally brahmins/ hindus...still many follows hindu wedding systems....mainly namboothiris/

saraswat brahmins were earlier christians in india.....so they have very bind with hinduism....i heard somewhere....even christian

churches followed KODIYETTRAM TO KODI IRAKKAM IN CHURCH FESTIVALS....EVEN SYSTEM OF THIRU BALI IN CHURCHES...

 

[sarang]

Brahmins are angels by any standard; they have allowed everybody to live and practice their dharma, even when they were victims of attack, slaughter, forced conversion and what not. So modern BBs cannot achieve even a bit of their evil designs despite the support of modern apologists. Brahmins have done nothing to apologize for. It is like asking jews to apologize to their tormentors.

The event of massacre of brahmins in goa (and in kerala, tamilnadu, karnataka) is recent and cannot be wished away.

 

[amala]

Father Russia you mean, like Germany, Russia I thought, is the Fatherland! Anyway I recommend Toby Green's The Inquisition : Reign of Fear to everyone interested. It was a very very difficult read. I had to literally throw up, dry my tears etc to continue, and the only time I've been emotionally challenged reading is Pearl S Buck's God's Men. Nothing else comes close. I would never ever, ever wish the Catholic Inquisition upon anyone, ever, not even my worst enemy, not even the vainest, superficial, superfluous person on this site or anywhere else (although it would do em good to go through this for some time, not naming any names)

 

[munsaamy]

Father Russia you mean, like Germany, Russia I thought, is the Fatherland! Anyway I recommend Toby Green's The Inquisition : Reign of Fear to everyone interested. It was a very very difficult read. I had to literally throw up, dry my tears etc to continue, and the only time I've been emotionally challenged reading is Pearl S Buck's God's Men. Nothing else comes close. I would never ever, ever wish the Catholic Inquisition upon anyone, ever, not even my worst enemy, not even the vainest, superficial, superfluous person on this site or anywhere else (although it would do em good to go through this for some time, not naming any names)

patchavanga itha pathi maanavariyaa solli keeraanga. kolaveri putcha kolakaarana vuda mosamaa andha saamiyaarungo irndhu keeraanunga. oru vaatti goa poyirnthappo romba bejaara irundhuchi. verum 200 varsham kooda illa, jananga ellam marndhu pootchi.

 

[renuka]

I would never ever, ever wish the Catholic Inquisition upon anyone, ever, not even my worst enemy, not even the vainest, superficial, superfluous person on this site or anywhere else (although it would do em good to go through this for some time, not naming any names)

Is this supposed to be a partial blessing or a partial 'curse'??.....that is you wish no one goes thru this but at the same time feel that it would do them 'good' to go thru this for a stipulated period of time...like Purgatory it seems to be.

Well something new..... a semi cursed blessing...You might confuse even Durvasa!LOL

 

[renuka]

. Brahmins have done nothing to apologize for.

Gibb's rule No 6.

 

[sarang]

brahmins are not captain haddock, who is always ready to 'apologize on demand'.

Gibb's rule No 6.

 

[renuka]

brahmins are not captain haddock, who is always ready to 'apologize on demand'.

There is no Captain Haddock..there is only Leroy Jethro Gibbs and his rules.

"Rule 6: "Never say you're sorry. It's a sign of weakness." - This rule has been mentioned throughout the series, but it given a specific number until Flesh and Blood (episode). The rule is also a direct reference to John Wayne's catch phrase in She Wore A Yellow Ribbon (John Ford, Director). Wayne said: "Never apologize, mister, it's a sign of weakness." to subordinates in a military situation

BTW I am somewhat surprised that you actually feel that there are humans in this world who are entirely faultless on all accounts.

How can you be so sure? Do you really feel there is anyone in this world who is spotless and has never committed a mistake?

Just a reminder ..most mistakes are committed in the mind..only those who act on impulse carry out their thoughts..the rest just do not carry out their thoughts either due to fear,lack of strength/support or becos of some amount of judicious use of their Viveka.
But this does not equal to being innocent.


Note: My statement is a general statement for entire mankind and not directed to any one single community.

 

[sarang]

So gibbs law is universal valid for all at all times and in all situations; a pramana to be accepted by all. What a joke?

The chorus from some groups is for brahmins to apologise for ill tratemnt of dalits and harijans (names coined by ambedkar and gandhi), a wild claim. Brahmins need not apologize for this foisted accusation. That is all. Haddock makes this issue simple and comical.

Generalizing always leads to confusion and masala.

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue.

So gibbs law is universal valid for all at all times and in all situations; a pramana to be accepted by all. What a joke?

Its not a joke..Gibbs is GOD!LOL

The chorus from some groups is for brahmins to apologise for ill tratemnt of dalits and harijans (names coined by ambedkar and gandhi), a wild claim. Brahmins need not apologize for this foisted accusation. That is all. Haddock makes this issue simple and comical.

I am not talking about Brahmins in specific..there is no one in this world who is 100% innocent..thats all.Anyone can blame anyone for anything..its up to us to realize that no one is perfect and stop harping on it and move on! Who is blaming Brahmins? Its imaginary to blame anyone for mistakes of the past.Just like when the son of King Parikshit got pissed with Takshak for killing his father he went on a snake killing spree and was stopped from doing so cos its not fair to kill all snakes when it was only one snake that killed Pariskhit.

So if we believe in the law of cause and effect which some call Karma...then accept everything that comes our way as what was destined to be. So no need to apologize but that does not mean we are perfect either.So in this situation Gibbs rule 6 is correct.

Generalizing always leads to confusion and masala.

Exactly! That is why we can not generalize that one particular community is spotless.Majority might be good but not everyone can be good.

.

 

[biswa]

Brahmins are angels by any standard; they have allowed everybody to live and practice their dharma,

I thought Brahmins defined the Sanatana Dharma. I am not sure everybody else had much of a choice, unless they were Muslims or Christians.