Protests in Karnataka over visit of American Evangelist

[vgane]

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We have discussed about conversion..Why are these foreign evangelists allowed entry into India..Only to proselytize?

We need a proper mechanism to control the flow of money from foreign NGO's with hidden agenda

VHP protests visit of American evangelist to Bangalore

 

[vgane]

The Evangelist finally decides not to come to India after the protests...Good riddance!

Source:Rediff

American Evangelist Benny Hinn cancels proposed visit to Bangalore following protests from Saffron groups.

The protests come in the wake of miracle healing sessions by Hinn during his last visit to the IT city nine years back, in 2005.

Right-wing groups claim that the self-proclaimed miracle healer was using this as a tool to convert people to Christianity, and that his prayer conference next week too would be a forum for conversion.

 

[vgane]

Dear Vgane,

When we do the above, I trust we dont need any mechanism to prevent these guys from invading our shores. On understanding the greatness of hinduism, the mother of all religions, they themselves will cease their visits to our great nation.

Our people are given a carrot to convert....And create the seeds of secession aka North East..We know what these guys are up to..Do not fall into their sinister propaganda

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Followers of Islam and Christianity have excelled the art of internationalizing any trivial issue.,while the followers of Sanatana Dharma
consider everyone as equal and UNIVERSAL in Nature.People from other Faiths can also follow the principles of Sanatana Dharma without changing their Faith.
Christian missionary Schools have no doubt spread Education in India.Because of British Rule in India,all Christian institutions got
prime land for Schools.
After independence,Hindus have started Schools and they will catch up with Christian Missionary Schools over a Period of time.
I myself studied in St.Joseph's Tiruchirapalli when a German Jesuit Father Mr.Erhart was the Principal.At that time we were not given a copy of Bible and made to read compulsorily The german Principal was loved and liked by one and all.
The present Principal an indian of the same great institution had brought down the reputation of that great institution by his moral misbehaviour with a NUN.
What I am not able to understand is (as to) why a christian Missionary School(St.Carmel in New Delhi) insists that all students mostly from Hindu family should have a copy of Bible and made to read compulsorily.No Hindu Scriptures like Bhagvad Gita is given to Students along with a copy of Bible.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Just before Tsunami struck Tamilnadu,Ceylon etc,an Evangelist came from USA to Bangalore.Lot of Publicity was given in TV Channels.
It appears that he had spent crores of Rupees in his own Security by bringing his personal guards from USA.
He never donated any amount for Tsunami Victims,where as Amirtanandamayi of Kerala donated 100 crores for relief.

 

[sarang]

Pope has signed a deal with the rabbis that he or his followers will not convert jews to christians. This was revealed by jayendra saraswati in a press conference after an inter religious meet. When the bishop present in the press conference was asked to comment, he agreed that an agreement exists, but refused to elaborate.

QUOTE=vgane;225495]Our people are given a carrot to convert....And create the seeds of secession aka North East..We know what these guys are up to..Do not fall into their sinister propaganda[/QUOTE]

 

[sarang]

Because west and europe are now saturated and perhaps facing resistance, the addition to the flock has to be done from asia, and mainly from india. Who said this is not a secret. One pope.

What is the hidden agenda?

 

[sarang]

Prevention is better than cure. When a person's antecedents are known, his activities in his previous visit and elsewhere, isn't it wise to be prepared and alert. Feeding the athithi is definitely welcome, but one must ensure that that the hand that feeds is not bitten.

Too late to teach. There are enough documentary evidence available to guess their mission.

Dearest Vgane,

Why not you and I invite this american evangelist to our house, treat him with the most delicious of our dishes, show him from our scriptures that our scriptures say more about AGAPE, STORGE, PHILEO than his bible and that his bible is no match for our scriptures when it comes to Love of God?

And prior to that please search our scriptures, the vedas, upanishads, pramanas, gita etc etc and keep stock of all the verses which preach God's Love, God's willingness to pardon sins for mere repentance, salvation by mere Grace of God which does not require any works, karma from our part. We will teach these guys what our scriptures are so that they learn a lesson once and for all, hang their heads in shame and never even dream of evangelizing.

 

[sarang]

He can be arrested in maharashtra under the newly enacted 'prevention of superstitious practices'; a similar act is under considration in karnataka too. Unfortunately, the law will be applied selectively.

The protests come in the wake of miracle healing sessions by Hinn during his last visit to the IT city nine years back, in 2005.

Right-wing groups claim that the self-proclaimed miracle healer was using this as a tool to convert people to Christianity, and that his prayer conference next week too would be a forum for conversion.

 

[Vaagmi]

Kuvalaya's #2:

Why does VHP get jitters whenever this evangelist visits India!!!! The VHP has not done anything [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]for the cause[/COLOR] of the so-called Dalits who are alleged to be converted.
"Aadu nanaigiradhu endru onai azhudhadham"

So you know how many members are there subscribed to VHP who are dalits. And when you say VHP has done nothing to dalits we have all to come and prove that something has been done. Because you are a know all and say all Gnani of this forum. Please do your home work properly and then come here. Please visit the site of VHP and its organizations and get an idea of what they are doing. We know which is the AAdu and which is the Onai and also what is azhugai. Paralokaththilirukkum engal pithavE-please give good sense to this sheep which has strayed.

Kuvalaya's #4:

Dearest Vgane,

Why not you and I invite this american evangelist to our house, treat him with the most delicious of our dishes, show him from our scriptures that our scriptures say more about AGAPE, STORGE, PHILEO than his bible and that his bible is no match for our scriptures when it comes to Love of God?

What is this AGAPE, STORGE, PHILEO? Latin? Please give the meaning. We will react. It is audacious to expect that the people in this forum will be aware of such words. We are not people who sold ourselves for the milk powder.

And prior to that please search our scriptures, the vedas, upanishads, pramanas, gita etc etc and keep stock of all the verses which preach God's Love, God's willingness to pardon sins for mere repentance, salvation by mere Grace of God which does not require any works, karma from our part. We will teach these guys what our scriptures are so that they learn a lesson once and for all, hang their heads in shame and never even dream of evangelizing.

Why left out Willingness to die at the cross to items listed and highlighted above? We are able to see everything that is there. The cloak is too thin. LOL.

Kuvalaya's #5:

I am sorry I forgot one more thing. Also take stock of the philanthropists in our country to prove to this guy [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]benny hinn

that their mother teresa is absolutely no match for any of ours

It is not her father's property that Teresa is spending. It is money contributed by those who vaporised innocent Japanese citizens(children included) in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, by those who killed more than a million jews in pogroms and holocaust (by innovative methods of taking life), who killed their own brothers and sisters on burning stakes for differing from them on some silly stupid religious detail, by those who created the AIDS virus, let it out of the bottle and now struggle with the after math. They have a collective mammoth troubled conscience which never lets them in piece for a moment. They try to buy peace by contributing dollars (again taking advantage of the skewed international monetary system which gives a far higher exchange value to their currencies than what they deserve). It is a heady mixture marijuana mixed with snake's poison which they take in by those contributions. LOL. And finally have you heard of that wonderful community called Parsis? Their charity is well known in India for its true value. Their Cancer Hospitals and great Scientific institutions built by them-you may not know. Please brush up your knowledge and get back. There are any number Hindu philanthropists and charitable trusts which you may not be knowing. poonai kannai moodinaal ulakam asththamippathillai.

Kuvalaya's #6:

I also request you to gather information about Hindu Educational Institutions which are far better than and are sought after more than the Loyolas, St Stephens', St Xaviers', Good Shepherd convents, Presentation Convents, Stella Maris, Holy Angels convents, Avila Convents, Don Bosco, Sacred Hearts, Bishop Heber, St Josephs', St Michaels' Academy, St Patrick's, St Johns' and all those endless schools with their names prefixed with St and suffixed with convents, etc.​

Already answered by someone else above. They had a headstart because of the british rule. Have you heard of Vivekananda and Ramakrishna mutt institutions? They are sought after. Have you heard of PSBB institutions? They too are sought after in Chennai. I know couples who look for rented accommodation in KK Nagar, Mambalam just to put their children in PSBB leaving their more comfortable homes in other suburbs. Please make enquiries and you will find that these Christian institutions are just perungayam vaiththa paandam today. Are you aware that the faculty of Loyola is virtically split on the lines of Vanniya Christians and other Christians and there is a running feud there? Are you aware that the member of faculty of St. Josephs was in the thick of a sexual abuse scandal involving a nun? We would have nothing to do with such institutions.

Also, I will be most obliged if you will join with me in collecting information about personalities of Indian origin who have done far greater works than their Ida Scudders', Amy Carmichaels', William Careys' etc who left their shores and landed in India and executed their mission suffering numerous insults, persecution, tribulation, afflictions, reproaches etc.

Have you heard of Mahatma Gandhi and his work in Africa? Are you aware that Madiba took Gandhi to be his role model? Amy Carmichael who? and William Carey who? They may be some one great for you. Without knowing them I am happy.

I trust this information will help in arresting further conversions to christianity. Furthermore it will help a counter-conversion and return back to hindu fold of all those who converted to christianity

No. You have misunderstood. We do not want them back at any cost. If they come back they are welcome. If they do not good riddance. Let them be happy where they are. Sarve jana sukhino bhavanthu..

Best wishes.




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[auh]

Why do the christians seek to convert to shower love and kindness? Isnt it something that should be common amongst us in order to survive, irrespective of religion? What is the purpose by claiming that some carpenter is a saviour when he himself could not save his fate?

Moreover there is a theory that a certain person got enlightened by the yogis of India, and went to his people and spread the message and got elevated to the status of a messenger of God. Also that he did not die at the cross but was barely alive when his few followers rescued him ( this is the claim of the resurrection! ) and he travelled back to (present day) India, married, and beget children and lived till his old age. Intrestengly, they say that the life of Jesus is shrouded from around the ages of 11 till 30 (which time he was probably under his Gurus in India).

Some interesting links:

Paul Davids: Jesus' Lost Years May Finally Have Been Found

Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In effect, this proves that perhaps Hinduism (as it is called) and Christianity have much in common. And hence the pull towards India ! Who knows perhaps, there would be a day when the Pope declares Christianity to be a subsect of Hinduism.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Why do the christians seek to convert to shower love and kindness? Isnt it something that should be common amongst us in order to survive, irrespective of religion? What is the purpose by claiming that some carpenter is a saviour when he himself could not save his fate?

Moreover there is a theory that a certain person got enlightened by the yogis of India, and went to his people and spread the message and got elevated to the status of a messenger of God. Also that he did not die at the cross but was barely alive when his few followers rescued him ( this is the claim of the resurrection! ) and he travelled back to (present day) India, married, and beget children and lived till his old age. Intrestengly, they say that the life of Jesus is shrouded from around the ages of 11 till 30 (which time he was probably under his Gurus in India).

Some interesting links:

Paul Davids: Jesus' Lost Years May Finally Have Been Found

Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In effect, this proves that perhaps Hinduism (as it is called) and Christianity have much in common. And hence the pull towards India ! Who knows perhaps, there would be a day when the Pope declares Christianity to be a subsect of Hinduism.

Yeah right. Two links, and suddenly Hinduism has lots in common with Christianity. In fact, Atheism has too much in common with Christianity since more X-ians are leaving the flock than joining. See worldwide church attendance figures, only dirt-poor countries like Sub-saharan African ones, India, East Timor and some others have growing numbers of 'faithful'. Most rich countries have informally abrogated religion, or in the process of doing so.

I can't comment about Hinduism since it encompasses the extremely faithful, agnostics like me, and the completely atheistic ones too.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Please read my post #110 in 'Religious Conversion' thread.

 

[biswa]

In answer to Ms K's posts about conversion, why should there exist evangelists (of any religion). How can they claim that their God is better than another God? Are there really multiple Gods who rule this world by divide and conquer?

That's why this desire to convert makes no sense. One can object to social practices whether they are blood sacrifices, circumcision or dunking somebody's head in water. None of these practices make any difference in the spiritual plane. People who are converting are just moving from one room to another of the same house.

 

[auh]

Yeah right. Two links, and suddenly Hinduism has lots in common with Christianity. In fact, Atheism has too much in common with Christianity since more X-ians are leaving the flock than joining. See worldwide church attendance figures, only dirt-poor countries like Sub-saharan African ones, India, East Timor and some others have growing numbers of 'faithful'. Most rich countries have informally abrogated religion, or in the process of doing so.

I can't comment about Hinduism since it encompasses the extremely faithful, agnostics like me, and the completely atheistic ones too.

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, Hinduism and Christianity have some commonalities (particularly with Vaishnavism):

1) Saranagati and Moksham is similar to repentence (confession)
2) Concept of a ever Merciful Lord
3) The concept of a christian God is similar to Dwaitam
4) Incarnation

On the other hand, I wouldn't say that Hinduism includes atheists... as they do not subscribe to any school of thought (albeit diverse) within the myriad folds of Hinduism.

 

[auh]

Please read my post #110 in 'Religious Conversion' thread.

Post #110 is by Shri Vaagmi; can you point to yours please?

 

[ashwin_ash]

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, Hinduism and Christianity have some commonalities (particularly with Vaishnavism):

1) Saranagati and Moksham is similar to repentence (confession)
2) Concept of a ever Merciful Lord
3) The concept of a christian God is similar to Dwaitam
4) Incarnation

On the other hand, I wouldn't say that Hinduism includes atheists... as they do not subscribe to any school of thought (albeit diverse) within the myriad folds of Hinduism.

Samkhya, Nyaya, Jaina, Carvaka/Lokayata, Mimamsa are all atheistic. Even advaita is properly neither atheism nor theism, but transtheism where emphasis may fall on either nontheistic view/practice or theistic view/practice, and may express itself cataphatically, apophatically, or both.

Transtheism means that one is concerned not with God as a supreme being, a creature; but rather the ground of being itself, that which all partite identities take their basis on - including a hypothetical supreme being.

However, some will take the doctrine of ajativada (often taken as the apex teaching), as an extension of vivartavada, itself a branch of satkaryavada, as stating that the effect is pre-existent, in subtle form, in the cause; that is to say, that Ishvara is as much the source of Brahman (insofar as the two can even be divided; which is only at a lowly conceptual level), as Brahman is the source of Ishvara, neither being the source of the other but the same reality expressed in two modes, there being no actual process of divergence or projection.

If we take Ishvara to be an effect of Brahman's transaction with maya. Moreover, many of our traditions emphasize a balance between self-identification with nirguna and saguna forms of brahman as parabrahman. We are not just impersonalists.

Some of us choose to set the nirguna over the saguna. Others don't. And we all find adequate basis in scripture and tradition. The most important factor is one's own realizations on the matter, which is given equal weight by Shankaracharya to shruti itself.

Objects and perceptions are as real as their infusion with the nondual awareness of brahman. Ishvara, and perception of Ishvara, insofar as it is emersed in the nondual awareness of Brahman, is 'real,' as are any other objects which seem to be discrete things to the discursive awareness which uses object as a means of seeming to change its subjective nature.

As Brahman's consciousness can never actually be transfused, remaining everywhere full at all times, there is no actual infusion, no actual emersion into Brahman, and no actual unreality. Illusion itself a symptom of transaction.

The ink and paper advaita is basically a paper tiger incapable of supporting the weight of the inaccessible one, particularly where secondary sources are relied on rather than shruti & bhasya in conjunction with yukti. Such secondary sources give rise to divisive viewpoints which do not accurately represent the primary texts of the tradition.

Yes, properly read shruti alone gives rise to brahmajnana, but truthful words - even those not subject to stultifying translations - do not make for a true reading unless the applicant is prepared, and this almost always requires proper guidance and, far more importantly, initiation . Otherwise only the grossest level of meaning is understood without empowerment in the more subtle levels of speech and meaning.

Our parampara comes from Siva as adi-guru and acknowledges the Vedas as divinely revealed. In our lineages, worship of the Gods plays a key role whether we take it as a means, an end, or both.

A question I think is more relevant however is: does a higher level of formed reality exist which is eternal in nature, and not subject to subject-object-mode distinction? Ie, is there a saguna brahman (parabrahman) beyond this transient and projected subreality.

Advaita doesn't much comment on this and leaves it open for personal realization. Paradvaita (Trika) posits this as Parashiva, although to say "this" is still a misnomer.

This is Idam (Maha), and Shiva (or, if you prefer, Shakti in the mode of Samrasa) is Aham. However, at the Parashakti/Parashiva level - beyond all other levels yet pervading and constituting them, there is neither "I am" nor "this is" so to speak Parashiva as a 'this' or an 'a,' encounterable object among other objects is incorrect.

 

[auh]

Samkhya, Nyaya, Jaina, Carvaka/Lokayata, Mimamsa are all atheistic.

Samkhya and Nyaya are not atheistic.

Mimimsa is an inquiry and is in two parts, the purva and uttara. Orthodox brahmins include Mimamsa as an essential part of our scriptures.

Jainism is a separate religion.

Only Charvaka is atheistic and they are not a religious order.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Post #110 is by Shri Vaagmi; can you point to yours please?

That post was removed and replaced by Vaagmi's. Honoring the Moderators, I decline to repeat it here.

 

[renuka]

In answer to Ms K's posts about conversion, why should there exist evangelists (of any religion). How can they claim that their God is better than another God? Are there really multiple Gods who rule this world by divide and conquer?

That's why this desire to convert makes no sense. One can object to social practices whether they are blood sacrifices, circumcision or dunking somebody's head in water. None of these practices make any difference in the spiritual plane. People who are converting are just moving from one room to another of the same house.

Biswa,

You see I call it the Amazing Grace Syndrome.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

It happens among Hindus itself when they embrace a new form of prayer.

I personally knew a person who was a corrupt official and then the family migrated and became ISKCON devotees and act freaking innocent now and keep saying Hare Krishna Hare Krishna non stop holding a Japa Mala in their hands..having a nice life with all corrupt money.
900 chuhe khake billi ISCKON ko chali!LOL


So you see "conversion" also takes place among Hindus..some "convert" from Normal Hindu to Spiritually High Hindu..than act freaking innocent and Holier Than Thou..each one with some skeletons in their closets.

BTW I have no idea how Christians missionaries can fake a smile 24/7.

I dont know yaar..I think one needs to be in Mania 24/7 to do this.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Biswa,

You see I call it the Amazing Grace Syndrome.






It happens among Hindus itself when they embrace a new form of prayer.

I personally knew a person who was a corrupt official and then the family migrated and became ISKCON devotees and act freaking innocent now and keep saying Hare Krishna Hare Krishna non stop holding a Japa Mala in their hands..having a nice life with all corrupt money.
900 chuhe khake billi ISCKON ko chali!LOL


So you see "conversion" also takes place among Hindus..some "convert" from Normal Hindu to Spiritually High Hindu..than act freaking innocent and Holier Than Thou..each one with some skeletons in their closets.

BTW I have no idea how Christians missionaries can fake a smile 24/7.

I dont know yaar..I think one needs to be in Mania 24/7 to do this.

Or Botox.

 

[sarang]

Evolving, not converting. Our religion allows prayaschitham for sins and indiscretions committed; one has to lead a purer life he has chosen, and there is a possibility he may revert to his old ways. Many rishis, azhwars and nayanmars have have gone through this evolution.

So you see "conversion" also takes place among Hindus..some "convert" from Normal Hindu to Spiritually High Hindu..than act freaking innocent and Holier Than Thou..each one with some skeletons in their closets.

 

[renuka]

Evolving, not converting. Our religion allows prayaschitham for sins and indiscretions committed; one has to lead a purer life he has chosen, and there is a possibility he may revert to his old ways. Many rishis, azhwars and nayanmars have have gone through this evolution.

But you see the problem with those who have adopted a so called purer life..they want to make a show of it..a new broom sweeps clean and act holy.
Once I had a medical representative who had learned some meditation and was acting holy!

He claimed that he could astral travel and he said that "even if I tell you Doc you can never understand cos you can never imagine my level of spirituality".

So one day when he came to my clinic..I did not open my room door to see him.

He then asked my nurse..why is doc not seeing me.

Then he knocked the door and I told him "I did not open the door cos I thought at your level of spirituality you should be able to walk through a closed door"

After that he never acted holy again!LOL

 

[ashwin_ash]

But you see the problem with those who have adopted a so called purer life..they want to make a show of it..a new broom sweeps clean and act holy.
Once I had a medical representative who had learned some meditation and was acting holy!

He claimed that he could astral travel and he said that "even if I tell you Doc you can never understand cos you can never imagine my level of spirituality".

So one day when he came to my clinic..I did not open my room door to see him.

He then asked my nurse..why is doc not seeing me.

Then he knocked the door and I told him "I did not open the door cos I thought at your level of spirituality you should be able to walk through a closed door"

After that he never acted holy again!LOL

This sounds very similar to the incident at SSB's ashram where someone asked him why he didn't simply teleport himself or fly away or walk through the walls, but instead chose to press the panic button when people came to attack him. He had no answer and shooed the person away.