"Religions" against Rationalism?

[Siddhanta]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

In India only, this happens. Even telling "Om Namashivaya" or "Kanda Kadamba" could be termed as provoking "mada veri" in India. Anti Hindu forces are brainwashing and trying to find loopholes to put an end to Hinduism.

Here is an article about banning Thirukkural. First of all Thiruvalluvar was a secularist. He did not use our Gods names in his kurals.

1. Akara mutala eluttellam; Ati
   Pakavan mutarre ulaku.

The alphabet begins with A;
So does the Universe, with God.

Just as the letter 'A' begins and energises all other letters of the Alphabet, God is the origin and sustenance of the entire Universe. This is the first of the ten couplets in this chapter, all in praise of God. Parimelalagar would say that according to the custom of the day, the poet hails either his own favourite deity, or the deity appropriate to the theme, and concludes that virtue, wealth and love are connected with the three qualities, Satva, Rajas and Tamas, of primeval God as stated in the Gita (7,12), and that, therefore, Valluvar has sung this chapter as a general prayer of praise to the Hindu triad.

Though we may admit that the basis of the Poet's religious thought is Hindu and ethical philosophy is Tamil, this interpretation cannot be considered fully sound, in as much as Valluvar has so carefully and ingenuously worded these Kurals avoiding denominational names and exclusive doctrines, that every religionist all over the world is able to see the God of his own conception, in the references by the author. In fact, specifically, the Jains would claim 'Aadhibagavan' (Tamil word) as the first of their Thirthankaras. Some Christians would see Christ in the reference to 'Porivaayil aindhavithaan'. But running through the warp and woof of the entire work, we could see the basic Hindu doctrines of Karma, virtue and devotion to God superimposed upon the healthy rationality and social conscious of the Tamils of the Sangam age.

Yet anti Hindu forces want to ban it. Here is a humourous article that clearly exhibits the anger and foolishness of the anti-Hindu fools.

Thirukkural is Saffron RSS literature. Come, let us BAN it!

[FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva]In the past we have seen how the Dravidian ideology of the so called “saviors” of Tamil was at odds with the ones that embody the letter and spirit of St.Thiruvalluvar. In this episode we shall be seeing the strong adherence of St.Thiruvalluvar to the basic tenets of Hinduism and how he has exemplified the various facets of Hinduism in his Thirukkural. After looking at a sample, let us discuss about what we can do with Thirukkural.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva]As we are fortunate enough to have been ruled by atheists who swear unwavering adherence to the ‘anti-hindu-cum-rationalist’ ideology, it should have been ingrained in our minds that any relation what so ever with the Hindu theology and practice should be termed as against rationalism and hence against human kind (Hinduism preached “Caste Differences’ you see!!). We would probably have come to the conclusion that as idolatry is practiced in Hinduism, that too is against the modern rationalist thought and hence Hinduism and its antiques should be relegated to the garbage bin of history.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,geneva]If the above surmises are correct, then there is every reason for us to do away with Thirukkural too as we shall be seeing in the current article that there have many direct references in Thirukkural, to Hindu gods and values that are held in high esteem by the Hindu philosophy.[/FONT]

Thirukkural is Saffron RSS literature. Come, let us BAN it! | Amaruvi | Indiainteracts.in

 

[RVR]

Sri Siddhanta,

Our own Chief Minister has translated `Tirukkural' as `Nenjukku Needhi'.

Whatever said, he is one of the original architects of Dravidian Movement.

Let them talk to the Chief Minister instead of raising this issue.

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

nenjukku needhi brought kunjukku beedhi,as the younger generation of dmk,are very polite and god loving people,in private life.ammachi and sai baba,graced dmk chief and present cm,in a wonderful manner with kattu pidi vaithyam aka hugging saint,and magical manifestation of vibhuthi,rings,..etc aka siddic siddaigal of bhagavan.

 

[Nara]

..... Here is a humourous article that clearly exhibits the anger and foolishness of the anti-Hindu fools.

First of all Siddhanta, I sense a mix up here. But I will leave that for someone else to sort out. I want to address the article you have cited.

While Karunanidhi makes some outrageous interpretations to suit his theories, the author of this article is also guilty of skewing TK to suit his politics.

TK is amazingly free of any religious dogma. The very fact he left out Veedu, the explicitly religious aspect of human endeavors for Hindus, shows TV was not interested in religion.

Now about references to Hindu gods, you know Indra was a common god for everyone at that time. The rabid anti-Hindu, Seethalai Sarthanar, opens Manimekalai with a vivid account of festival for Indra. Similarly, another non-Hindu, Ilangovadigal, sings the praise of Lord Si Krishna in the most enthralling way that MS conveyed to us without missing any of the exquisite beauty -- Vadavariyai Maththaakki.

In that song, the best line is about Thiruvikkrama Avatharam -- இரண்டடியால் மூவுலகும் இருள் தீர நடந்தனையே. This line talks of the enlightening effect of the foot of Thirruvikraman covering the entire earth (see NN, flat earth getting covered). When you cover something darkness results, instead, Ilango says, when Thiruvikrama's foot covered the earth, darkness was removed -- இருள் தீர நடந்தனையே. Yet, Ilango was an avowed Jain.

So, the references to Hindu gods do not make TV a Hindu.

The same goes with the other points this RSS author makes. It is all motivated arguments devoid of any merit.

Cheers!

 

[Siddhanta]

First of all Siddhanta, I sense a mix up here. But I will leave that for someone else to sort out. I want to address the article you have cited.

While Karunanidhi makes some outrageous interpretations to suit his theories, the author of this article is also guilty of skewing TK to suit his politics.

TK is amazingly free of any religious dogma. The very fact he left out Veedu, the explicitly religious aspect of human endeavors for Hindus, shows TV was not interested in religion.

Now about references to Hindu gods, you know Indra was a common god for everyone at that time. The rabid anti-Hindu, Seethalai Sarthanar, opens Manimekalai with a vivid account of festival for Indra. Similarly, another non-Hindu, Ilangovadigal, sings the praise of Lord Si Krishna in the most enthralling way that MS conveyed to us without missing any of the exquisite beauty -- Vadavariyai Maththaakki.

In that song, the best line is about Thiruvikkrama Avatharam -- இரண்டடியால் மூவுலகும் இருள் தீர நடந்தனையே. This line talks of the enlightening effect of the foot of Thirruvikraman covering the entire earth (see NN, flat earth getting covered). When you cover something darkness results, instead, Ilango says, when Thiruvikrama's foot covered the earth, darkness was removed -- இருள் தீர நடந்தனையே. Yet, Ilango was an avowed Jain.

So, the references to Hindu gods do not make TV a Hindu.

The same goes with the other points this RSS author makes. It is all motivated arguments devoid of any merit.

Cheers!

Mr. Nara,

I dont understand what is there to sort out here?

I liked the way the article was designed in a funny and humorous manner giving a message to the "anti-Hindus" and "Pseudo-Secularists".

I do agree that TV is PURELY secular. I am not proving that he is a Hindu and he preached Hinduism in his kurals. I liked the way the article was written and i suppose the author of the article also knew this. It was like a "spoof" article and i dont take it seriously in view of politics or RSS.

In case TV was a Hindu, his first Kural, should have been dedicated in praise of Lord Ganapathi, instead of writting, "Adi Bhagawan".

From my perspective, Thirukkural symbolises the begginning of the secularist influence setting in after the beginning of Kali Yuga(followed by God men and God women and their preaching).

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Siddhanta Ji,

Not all Hindus worship Lord Ganesha. I think your views about our religion are not correct as well as about TV. Please understand first that the myriad of our 'Gods' are the representation of the 'Adi Bhagawan'. Terming TV as 'secular' is clearly ludicrous, as he was a Hindu.

I hope I am not offending you, but Sir, please first understand our religion and then what is 'secularism' before making assertions that are patently wrong.

Regards,
KRS

 

[RVR]

There is no proof that Thiruvalluvar was a Hindu.

There is a sub- caste known as `Valluvan' among Daliths. But this sub-caste still exists only in the Tanjore belt. But people claim that Thiruvalluvar was born in Mylapore.

The term Aadhi Baghavan as coined by Thiruvalluvar in his first couplet may also refer to Jain God `Aadhi Baghavan'

Tiruvalluvar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The exact period of Thiruvalluvar is also a mystery.

Hence time period of Thiruvalluvar, his religion/caste, place where he lived are all only imagination.

All the best

 

[KRS]

Yes, may be TV was not a 'Hindu' based on not knowing the exact history. Jainism sprung out of Hinduism as did Buddhism. The differences in the teachings only rest on accepting the Vedas as the final authority.

Regardless, when a Hindu reads Thirukkural, one can not but identify oneself with the philosoh and the approach to life espoused there as 'Hindu'.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Siddhanta]

Dear Sri Siddhanta Ji,

Not all Hindus worship Lord Ganesha. I think your views about our religion are not correct as well as about TV. Please understand first that the myriad of our 'Gods' are the representation of the 'Adi Bhagawan'. Terming TV as 'secular' is clearly ludicrous, as he was a Hindu.

I hope I am not offending you, but Sir, please first understand our religion and then what is 'secularism' before making assertions that are patently wrong.

Regards,
KRS

Mr. KRS,

I do know that all Hindus do not worship Ganesha i just gave an example. Previously in my first post i mentioned that he never mentioned any of the Hindu Gods names in his Kurals. Also i mentioned clearly that my point was not to prove that TV was not a Hindu. Kindly read my posts clearly before making any comments.

My point was TV's kurals were secular, because he did not use any of our God's names and i suppose there was no adherence to Vedas (Gods) in his writtings (kurals). Whether "he" is secular or he was a Hindu or Muslim or Christian that was not my concern. May be you understood my posts in a different meaning because in my first post i mentioned he was a secularist. I make apologies for that. What remains of him is only his kurals. His caste, creed, time are all unkown. So it is needless to argue on that. Hence when i said, he is "secular" i meant that his kurals were secular. Isnt this not correct?

I take no offence, it is good experience interacting with you but please read and understand my posts clearly before making any remarks. I agree that i do not know everything about Hinduism but i am learning the Vedas and it is an ongoing process.

 

[RVR]

Sri Siddhantha,

I fully endorse your view that Thiruvalluvar was highly secular.

Probably during his time there would have been fight between Jains/Buddhists vs Hindus. Thiruvalluvar cleverly avoided the conflict in his compositions.

His work is definitely a Jewel in the crown of Mother Tamil

All the best

 

[Siddhanta]

Sri Siddhantha,

I fully endorse your view that Thiruvalluvar was highly secular.

Probably during his time there would have been fight between Jains/Buddhists vs Hindus. Thiruvalluvar cleverly avoided the conflict in his compositions.

His work is definitely a Jewel in the crown of Mother Tamil

All the best

Mr. RVR Sir,

I am also wondering about this. His exact time is unknown, but the Cholas, Cheras and Pandyas were powerful during those times and may be he wanted to avoid the conflict between Shaivites and Vaishnavites possibly but i am not sure.

TK is good for promoting Tamil literature and it is a good work indeed.

I just observe the change in culture in those times where Tamils were worshipping the Vedic Gods and his kurals were secular(he is a learned scholar i suppose). May be if his exact time of living was known, it would throw some light upon this.

Thanks and Regards.

 

[RVR]

Court Pronounces `Maharishi Valmiki is not a decoit'

It is quite interesting. Haryana High court has pronounced `Maharishi Valmiki is not a decoit'

Maharishi Valmiki was never a dacoit: Punjab & Haryana HC - India - The Times of India

Let the rationalists stop talking non-sense about Valmiki Maharishi.

All the best

 

[Siddhanta]

People never talk nonsense about Thiruvalluvar but they talk about Maharishi Valmiki.

It is because thirukkural is secular but Valmiki's works on real history is termed "religious" and hence debunkers want to cast aspersions.

This is only a beginning. Then later they would come up with the theory if he is not what he was known to be, then his work is not real.

 

[Nara]

,,,,, Let the rationalists stop talking non-sense about Valmiki Maharishi.

That right belongs only to the non-rationalists

I read the cited article and I was struck by twilight-zone quality of the story, a kind of dual reality. In this dual reality, the final arbiter of historical research is a judge, not peer historians.

The most troubling part of the story was the judge's admonishment that TV channels must take into account the sensitivity of religious people. What a field day all religious puritans can have with this bit of jurisprudential wisdom.

Cheers!

 

[Siddhanta]

Here is a general issue about rationalists and secularists.

I bet most of them would be materialists.

Those people calling themselves secularists or rationalists mostly go to US, settle there nicely (not to mention they undergo terrible insults from the natives which they NEVER admit, for obvious reasons) and they cast aspersions about the locals of India and their culture. These people try to suppress anything that involves the names of our Gods(Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesh, etc) but they just promote, Bhaghavaan, Almighty God, etc.

 

[kunjuppu]

anti clericalism, of any religious denomination, is a significant group in any society dominated by a single religion.

one should only scan the surface of western culture to come up with the works of voltaire or hawkins or linus pauling.

there exists too in the muslim world a broad anti clerical writing of which not much voice is given in the western media. sufism, is after all, a protest against organized islam.

i think the presence of the anti clericals serve a useful purpose - ie to prevent excesses in the name of religion. the catholic church pinnacled in this process in the 15 through 17th centuries with the inquisition, which found its way even to portuguese goa.

western rationalists can be logical and polished. or they can be cruel and crude a la periyar or veeramani. that they present a constant thorn on the side of the religious establishment is a gift for all of us innocent God fearing people, who do not have any truck with the mutts and muttheads, of whom, in the interest of the society and religion at large, a constant audit need to be maintained. :clap2:

 

[Siddhanta]

Those people calling themselves secularists or rationalists mostly go to US, settle there nicely (not to mention they undergo terrible insults from the natives which they NEVER admit, for obvious reasons) and they cast aspersions about the locals of India and their culture. These people try to suppress anything that involves the names of our Gods(Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesh, etc) but they just promote, Bhaghavaan, Almighty God, etc.

Mr. KRS,

Why dont you throw some light upon this? I made this remark for you (though i did not mention your name). Your posts seem to reflect a typical person of this kind.

I apologize for the assumption if you are not a person(Hindu) living abroad. No offence intended otherwise, just only an observation.

 

[rcscwc]

It is quite interesting. Haryana High court has pronounced `Maharishi Valmiki is not a decoit'

Maharishi Valmiki was never a dacoit: Punjab & Haryana HC - India - The Times of India

Let the rationalists stop talking non-sense about Valmiki Maharishi.

All the best

Such matters are beyond the jurisdiction of courts of any level. Also beyond legislation. If Valmiki himself claims that he used to be a robber, that is enough evidence.

 

[nachi naga]

sage valmiki,before he became a sage was a robber.

later he became a sage and robbed peoples hearts,like he is doing today with all our hearts.i name him the greatest sage robber ever known.hail to sage valmiki and valmiki nagar @ thirvanmiyur,chennai,India

 

[rcscwc]

Right you are. He sure captivated the hearts and minds of people with his epic.

 

[Nara]

Right you are. He sure captivated the hearts and minds of people with his epic.

Whether or not his epic was a yarn, whether or not Rama is worthy of our reverence, there is no denying that Valmiki was a great bard. His contribution to Indian literature stands unsurpassed. Shri Sangom, who is no blind admirer of epics, can vouch for this, I hope.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Whether or not his epic was a yarn, whether or not Rama is worthy of our reverence, there is no denying that Valmiki was a great bard. His contribution to Indian literature stands unsurpassed. Shri Sangom, who is no blind admirer of epics, can vouch for this, I hope.

Cheers!

Shri Nara,

I agree. Valmiki got due credit for his "Adi kAvya" which itself shows; it was the first poem in the "anushTubh" metre. The irony, however, is that it is not Valmiki's rAma but that of adhyAtma raMayaNa in which an attempt has been made to deify the original, very human rAma to an avatAr. the results are somewhat unsatisfactory, but our people being congenitally gullible, our religion-makers of yore could succeed more easily than what the Nazis had to do for making people imbibe their ideology.