Should we discuss EVR's diatribes against Brahmins in our forum

[vgane]

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As a member of this august forum I am pained & aghast at the kind of vitriol & diatribe that EVR has unleashed on the hapless & minuscule Tamil Brahmins..After reading 2 posts (Self Respect movement & Other side of Periyar) you feel helpless...I think the TB have other challenges to solve rather than discussing the vilification camapaign & hate speeches of EVR..He is an iconoclast and anti brahmin...So what is the point in discussing about him in this forum...Reading these posts:
1) Are we getting energised & motivated
2) Are we getting a new insight or a revelation to solve the problems being faced by Brahmins

My response to the above is a Big No...

As per my understanding, the objective of this forum to channelise the thoughts & disseminate positive aspects of the Brahminical culture, traditions , way of life and help Brahmins spread across the globe to face the challenges in the community (Merit being compromised, marrying outside community, dowry, effect of globalization, cross country migration etc)

In all fairness let the forum decide whether to continue such posts & focus our attention on other challenges...There are other magazines which are unmasking EVR -By magazines, portals such as Thuglaq, Tamil Hindu..By Hindu parties such as BJP, Hindu Munnani & RSS etc

Let us cleanse this forum of such obnoxious posts..I feel most of the members would agree..If required we can conduct an online poll to check this

 

[renuka]

As a member of this august forum I am pained & aghast at the kind of vitriol & diatribe that EVR has unleashed on the hapless & minuscule Tamil Brahmins..After reading 2 posts (Self Respect movement & Other side of Periyar) you feel helpless...I think the TB have other challenges to solve rather than discussing the vilification camapaign & hate speeches of EVR..He is an iconoclast and anti brahmin...So what is the point in discussing about him in this forum...Reading these posts:
1) Are we getting energised & motivated
2) Are we getting a new insight or a revelation to solve the problems being faced by Brahmins

My response to the above is a Big No...

As per my understanding, the objective of this forum to channelise the thoughts & disseminate positive aspects of the Brahminical culture, traditions , way of life and help Brahmins spread across the globe to face the challenges in the community (Merit becing compromised, marrying outside community, dowry, effect of globalization, cross country migration etc)

In all fairness let the forum decide whether to continue such posts & focus our attention on other challenges...There are other magazines which are unmasking EVR -By magazines, portals such as Thuglaq, Tamil Hindu..By Hindu parties such as BJP, Hindu Munnani & RSS etc

Let us cleanse this forum of such obnoxious posts..I feel most of the members would agree..If required we can conduct an online poll to check this

Dear sir,

I am not a Brahmin but I can understand that its sickening to read about a person who dislikes a particular community.

No one likes to be run down.So I am sure other members will surely agree.You should be able to win hands down in your poll.

In fact these days when I log in..its like am I in EVR.com or what?
Sometimes I feel Darth Vader is still around!!

 

[renuka]

Dear vgane ji,

I forgot to add an important point.
In Forum sometimes we have lots of members who are are offline members that means silent members who read the post here but do not take part in discussions.

So dont get disheartened if you see a poor turn out of supporters for your thread even though many might share the same sentiment as you.

 

[vgane]

Dear vgane ji,

I forgot to add an important point.
In Forum sometimes we have lots of members who are are offline members that means silent members who read the post here but do not take part in discussions.

So dont get disheartened if you see a poor turn out of supporters for your thread even though many might share the same sentiment as you.

I am sure the active forum members would stop this gibberish in the name of EVR...We are giving undue publicity to him which he does not deserve...Our community is at cross roads and we have more critical and urgent aspects that need discussion & active engagement.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

The poisonous seed sowed by EVR has now grown up to a big Tree. It has totally poisoned our Generation and even now the present generation Youngsters not only from Brahmin Community but also from all communities were denied jobs as they dont know HINDI.

Now the DK is almost gone. We need not bother about AIADMK as the Founder Shri MGR daringly went to MOOKAMBIKA TEMPLE and the present Supremo JJ also a stonch beliver of GOD.

The DMK is the only poisonous Branch from EVR yet to be thrown out6 of Politics.

As long as DMK is alive the Speach about EVR also will prevail in TN.

There is no harm in rethinking about the cruelty of EVR against our Community.

 

[renuka]

The poisonous seed sowed by EVR has now grown up to a big Tree. It has totally poisoned our Generation and even now the present generation Youngsters not only from Brahmin Community but also from all communities were denied jobs as they dont know HINDI.

Now the DK is almost gone. We need not bother about AIADMK as the Founder Shri MGR daringly went to MOOKAMBIKA TEMPLE and the present Supremo JJ also a stonch beliver of GOD.

The DMK is the only poisonous Branch from EVR yet to be thrown out6 of Politics.

As long as DMK is alive the Speach about EVR also will prevail in TN.

There is no harm in rethinking about the cruelty of EVR against our Community.

Dear sir,

But I must say this..the Auto Drivers in Chennai speak very fluent Hindi.
I have heard them speaking Hindi to my mum and when she replies them in Tamil their faces just light up to hear Tamil.
From where did these guys learn to speak such fluent Hindi?

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Vgane,
I agree with you. When I postulated that majority (on this site) does not want this kind of falsehood, I was told that I was wrong. The red ink follows my post. I understand we should hear other side but this constant "poke in the eye" is an irritation.
I hope we can motivate ourselves in the direction away from this hatred.
Thanks for reminding us of where we should be focussed.

Renuka, you may not be brahmin by birth, but you are a brahma rishi, with your knowledge and understanding you are far more evolved than me.

 

[renuka]

Renuka, you may not be brahmin by birth, but you are a brahma rishi, with your knowledge and understanding you are far more evolved than me.

OMG Prasad...If I were the moderator I would have edited this line of yours cos I am very very far from such a status in fact no where near that status at all.
I am just like anyone else with still lots of faults too.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Kind Attn Of Renuka Mam....

Auto Drivers and Cooley porters in Almost all important RAILWAY STATIONS will speak Hindi because of their livelihood.

At the same time Some about 45 to 50 years ago the Fresh Graduates who completed Degree in College and Trying for Job suffered a lot for their un awareness of Hindi except the dirty politicians of TN.

that is the very same Trend as of Now. At the same Time all others from other Non Hindi speaking States are racing faster by throwing us very far behind.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Vgane, Greetings.

Should we discuss or not? you are not very clear.....

I think the TB have other challenges to solve rather than discussing the vilification camapaign & hate speeches of EVR.

If you think Tamil Brahmins have other challenges, I agree with you there, why do you even think if we should spend the time to discuss that?

After reading 2 posts (Self Respect movement & Other side of Periyar) you feel helpless

That was the key. Most brahmin community could not take up those abusive gutter language. To start with they were/ are a single digit minority community who tried to runaway and hide. Nobody in those days ever thought of fighting back. This community lacks unity. I grew up in this community; I know. For some weird reasons, this community believes in logical arguments to prove their innocence. ( I just deleted few sentences I wrote). Softy softy approach will not work. If this community can't stand up and fight in unison, I am talking about real fight, then there is no point in complaining.

Discussion won't get the community very far.... I beleve in this ..... thalappavu cutted.3gp.flv - YouTube

I did that when I was young. I was a CITU member at one time. I had trouble with black shirts only once. His swollen face cautioned others. i never had any trouble after that. I have discussed with DK members; I used to deliberately remove my shirt so that they could watch my poonool.

I know, most if not all members would not welcome my views. But then again, I never looked for popularity.

Cheers!

 

[ShivKC]

Kind Attn Of Renuka Mam....

Auto Drivers and Cooley porters in Almost all important RAILWAY STATIONS will speak Hindi because of their livelihood.

At the same time Some about 45 to 50 years ago the Fresh Graduates who completed Degree in College and Trying for Job suffered a lot for their un awareness of Hindi except the dirty politicians of TN.

that is the very same Trend as of Now. At the same Time all others from other Non Hindi speaking States are racing faster by throwing us very far behind.

whether folks of TN learned Hindi or not, they moved a head of hindi belt. tamilnadu fares well in all social indexes. there were times its so difficult to get a ticket from chennai towards the bombay or delhi bound trains. but its the other way, trains to down south are fully crowded.

marina beach has lot of paani puri shops. tamilnadu is doing far far better , and its attracting job seekers from hindi belt.

no cry please

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Swami Vivekananda went to Chicago to draw attention of Indians on the glorious Hinduism because we were and continue to be, attracted by the West. In this case, I am getting the wisdom that Brahminism and anti-Brahminism are mutually dependent, if not for anything else, at least for "thinnai pEchchu" ​thanks to internet for taking over for "thinnais" are rare to be seen.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

whether folks of TN learned Hindi or not, they moved a head of hindi belt. tamilnadu fares well in all social indexes. there were times its so difficult to get a ticket from chennai towards the bombay or delhi bound trains. but its the other way, trains to down south are fully crowded.

marina beach has lot of paani puri shops. tamilnadu is doing far far better , and its attracting job seekers from hindi belt.

no cry please

Dear Shiv,

Only those who had to go out of their hometown for their livelihood will lament about lost opportunity to learn another language. Therefore, do not dismiss TSS' views as crying, whining etc.

TN may be one of the well developed states, but the social indices you are quoting can be taken into account in totality only in the absence of any communal discrimination. That is why even when you see migration into TN from hindi belt, some groups, including brahmins, continue to migrate out of TN!

 

[vgane]

Dear Sri Raghy,
Greetings to you...My response in Bold & Italics below yours:

Should we discuss or not? you are not very clear..... If you think Tamil Brahmins have other challenges, I agree with you there, why do you even think if we should spend the time to discuss that?

I think we have discussed enough...By such logical & elaborate discussion where are we going...We are good at giving advice and discussing issues thread bare...Where is the action...

That was the key. Most brahmin community could not take up those abusive gutter language. To start with they were/ are a single digit minority community who tried to runaway and hide. Nobody in those days ever thought of fighting back. This community lacks unity. I grew up in this community; I know. For some weird reasons, this community believes in logical arguments to prove their innocence. ( I just deleted few sentences I wrote). Softy softy approach will not work. If this community can't stand up and fight in unison, I am talking about real fight, then there is no point in complaining.

Next time a DK or DMK pours scorn on you are you supposed to act. In what form?? Hope the members of this forum who abjure violence in any form give a solution..My own solution is legal..In case you humiliate a SC or ST you can be charged under the legal umbrella (Prevention of SC/ST Atrocities act)...Similarly we need a similar act to protect Brahmins...Also we need to file an FIR against the specific persons who have poured scorn on the community. Our Brahmin associations in various localities can take the lead in case we do not want to act as an individual.

Discussion won't get the community very far.... I beleve in this ..... thalappavu cutted.3gp.flv - YouTube

Can we have a Tamil or English translation...Looks like the movie espouses the cause of Tit for Tat


I did that when I was young. I was a CITU member at one time. I had trouble with black shirts only once. His swollen face cautioned others. i never had any trouble after that. I have discussed with DK members; I used to deliberately remove my shirt so that they could watch my poonool.

We cannot expect all Brahmins to be like you..99.9% want to live peacefully, but respectfully...This is the main challenge in the Tamil nation

I know, most if not all members would not welcome my views. But then again, I never looked for popularity.

 

[Jaykay767]

Folks - first off, we need to get out of this anti someone mood !

It is totally unfair to blame today's brahmins for their ancestors fault. refer my earlier post - do anyone blame the germans today for the holocust ? So while I condemn untouchability & caste discrimination, it is time for DK/DMK to move on from this vitriolic hatred. & also for all those in this thread posting anti-bram hateful messages !!

as I said, we tam brams are prospering far more than others - any persecuted community will out perform - look at the jews !!

Having said all that, we (Brams) need to reach out to all other communities. In some of my interactions with other castes, I was surprised to learn that they have a perceived inferiority & hatred against us due to historical & cultural gaps etc..

The fools in DK & DMK movement have misunderstood our history & pouting this hatred. Caste system is first of all a dravidian origin (Megasthenes write about this in the Pandian Kingdom 2000+ yrs back at extreme length - he explains each caste in detail, says clearly that is because of the "work" they do. Marco Polo writes - for dravidians, Gods are Dark, Demons are White. Dark Rama wins against White Ravana - as per Ramayana!!!!). If caste system is dravidian, & read my earlier thread - Sanskrit is Dravidian origin, then Vedas, puranas, scriptures are dravidian - they come from the dravidian tribes of Nagas, Devas (Devas are a subtribe of Nagas), Aryas (again a dravidian sub tribe), Rakshasas, Asuras etc.. (PS: Nagas, Devas, Aryas, etc.. are sons of a Naga Queen & hence their lineage - Nagas are serpent worshipping people ) !! - where is this inferiority & hatred coming from ?? - simply because they dont understand their own proud history & culture. !!

Btn the so called common man Tamil (not the Brahmin Tamil) in TN is filled with 100s of sanskrit words, showing that they were joined at the root !!

Dravidians (both Brams & NBs) should be extremely proud of their culture & are the same people.

Refer my earlier thread - it is incidental that the Brahmins/Upper caste are a mix of dravidians & the Alexander Greeks who settled in Coorg Karnataka & ruled many parts of south as Kannada Kings !! But the language, Vedas, puranas, Sanskrit, Ramayana & Mahabarata - are all Dravidian Origin !! - there is NO such language like Sanskrit in Europe or anywhere, there are NO such scriptures like - Vedas, Puranas, Ramayana... in any other culture or country !! Some words from Greek/non-greek has been assimilated into Sanskrit - thats all.

thats why the fair skinned Brahmins worship the Dark Gods - Shiva, Vishnu, Rama, Krishna etc.. because we were dravidians to begin with !!

Btn, the Coorgi community talks a language called Koda - mix of Kannada, Malayalam & some Tamil.

English as a num of latin, Greek, German, Hindi, Sanskrit words - that does not make it a foreign origin. It originated in England !! Similary Sanskrit originated in the dravidian lands !!

So lets sink this divide & be proud of being dravidians & Brahmins - without any prejudice to any other dravidian castes !!

Cheers,
JK

 

[arjun]

Yes I fully agree.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

OMG Prasad...If I were the moderator I would have edited this line of yours cos I am very very far from such a status in fact no where near that status at all.
I am just like anyone else with still lots of faults too.

I will supplement Prasad's words by adding that you are far more balanced and more enlightened in your perspectives.

 

[vembu]

I agree with the op. it is sickening to see the nonsense of the hatemonger being given such a space in our tb forum.

 

[Raghy]

Sri. Vgane, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #14.

Next time a DK or DMK pours scorn on you are you supposed to act. In what form?? Hope the members of this forum who abjure violence in any form give a solution..My own solution is legal..In case you humiliate a SC or ST you can be charged under the legal umbrella (Prevention of SC/ST Atrocities act)...Similarly we need a similar act to protect Brahmins...Also we need to file an FIR against the specific persons who have poured scorn on the community. Our Brahmin associations in various localities can take the lead in case we do not want to act as an individual.

Good luck to you. a). most probably, the identity of the person will not be known. b) There may be a mob harressing you. c). The police constable usually won't be so eager to write a FIR. Chances are, you may find yourself in hot waters that too spending a lot of time frustrated.

( I had no such time to spend. I always knew, I was not popular anyway. So, just move in! That was my policy. Such policies can not be adopted overnight. I stood up for others even during my primary school years. " Step in with arms swinging" was my motto. Needless to say, I got into so much trouble too. I am not asking anyone to adopt such extreme methods though).

There has to be a resolve; a commitment; a preparedness not to give up until the demands are met.... that reminds me; "against an injustice, we shouldn't lodge complaints to the authorities or request for considerations.... we should ask questions, demand justice, cause unrest.... For a community that is weak and struggling in its last breath, if necessary be prepared to die or to kill".. that portion in the inverted commas are the gist of that Malayalam movie dialogue.

We cannot expect all Brahmins to be like you..99.9% want to live peacefully, but respectfully

Thay is the problem, is it not? Maintaining the self-respect.. is it not? Sometimes it takes a huge fight to get peace. In Tamil Nadu brahmin community is at that junction. In this same forum once someone said that brahmins should be happy they did not have to face physical voilence and a blood bath when D K party was very popular! But politicians knows when to stop... the idea was to put the fear in the minds of brahmin community. It still exists. Trust me, respect has to be earned; the method may not peaceful. Peace can prevail after earning the respect. Unfortunately, Brahmin community had not earned respect.

Now it is very easy for me to type all this sitting behind a computer... I know it is very different on the streets of Tamil Nadu. But I was there once... it is not hard to do.

Feedbacks are welcome.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Thay is the problem, is it not? Maintaining the self-respect.. is it not? Sometimes it takes a huge fight to get peace.
Cheers!

I agree with Raghy Ji.Why not? Why not stand up and fight if anyone feels they are being unfairly treated?

Any community who feels they are being unfairly treated have the right to stand up and demand justice.

We Hindus tend to be complacent and think too much of Dharma and Ahimsa all the while.

What is Ahimsa? Ahimsa is commonly thought as Non Violence in Thought,Word and Deed.
But Ahimsa is two way.
Any human being has the right to practice Ahimsa and also to make sure he receives Ahimsa too.

If some one is persecuting anyone for no valid reason and we just sit back and lament that amounts to causing Himsa to oneself.

So if you dont like something..get up and make yourself heard.
We should not think too much of reputation that "what will people think"?
No one is asking anyone to go on a killing spree but one can be firm without inflicting grievous injury.

Peace is the most abused word these days.Its reserved for those who feel helpless.

I personally feel if any opponent is not practising Dharma and Ahimsa he/she needs to be dealt the same way.
Why give any Adharmic individual the benefit of Dharma when he/she didnt earn it?

If only Parashurama thought like any helpless person he would never had the Prefix "Parashu" to his name.

 

[sudeshwer]

I agree with vgane. I am also pained to read about anti-brahmin terades in this so-called tamil-brahmin forum. let us cleanse it. I do not want this forum should be a platform to critisize other communities but aleast let this forum need not be an anti-brahmin forum. every brahmin family in Tamilnadu had undergone some humuliation sometime or other; one cannot forget. It becomes a fashion even for a brahmin to say that he has thrown his poonal. well, let us promote brahmin culture. thanks

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri. Vgane, Greetings.

I think we have discussed enough...By such logical & elaborate discussion where are we going...We are good at giving advice and discussing issues thread bare...Where is the action...

I refer to your message in post #14.

If we are serious about improving the brahmin community, for that matter any community, firstly we must empower the youngsters of that community.

The youngsters should be allowed freedom in choosing their future. They should be supported, because those youngsters future would ultimately become that communities future too. They should be able to comfortably discuss any issue or any half baked plan or work in progress with the parents/elders without fearing any criticism. We want them to excel in their chosen fields; they ought to excel in their life too.

The yesteryears generations did not allow such freedom to the youngsters. Most of the members were youngsters who went through regimentally controlled childhood. Personally my father wrote me off long back ...' சினிமா கொட்டாய்ல முறுக்கு விக்கத்தாண்டா நீ லாயக்கு " .. that was my father's prediction about my future career when I was young.

We expect way too much from our children. Not only that, if our relatives, friends or neighbours allow freedom to their children, we don't tolerate that. We pass comments like ..'என்னப்பா? மகனை தண்ணி தெளிச்சு உட்டுட்டயா?control பண்ணணும்பா!' we as a community should move away from such practices. Since we have been practicising this kind of controlling for many many generations, fear for elders and others is built in our system. I allowed my son to grow as he wished, just keeping my presence around to help/guide him if he required it. He knew he had full freedom to do anything legal and ethical. He is doing well with 6 digit annual salary and all... still he fears me! He agrees I never caused it but says it is kind of built in. I shall write about the youngsters I met duruing my recent trip to India later.

That is the difficulty in the brahmin community. There is a built in fear. Unless one overcomes fear, one can't really succeed.

More as we discuss further. Feedbacks are welcome, please.

Cheers!

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Sorry have to respectfully disagree with you !. Today the politcs is totally polarized against TBs because of the hatred etc..

In this situation, the best option for Brams is NOT to stand up & fight with these guys. It will only make the situation worse.

we need to do what exactly the jews have done - Unite, Organise, Money, Power - Leverage them & control all aspects of the society - banks, money markets, political funding, news, etc.. so that we can shut all these crapping mouths !!

Cheers,
JK
PS: I posted this earlier but somehow "got deleted" - atleast if it is going to be deleted, let me know the reason !!. Lets pl continue to keep the torch of freedom burning - and allow "voices that standup for Brahmins" to continue in this forum at least !! I mean you have named as TB.com !!

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

I just want our Friends and Well wishers of our Community to see my opinion 324 in Self Respect Moment Topic. The very same post may be applicable for this also.

The Torture,Hatred, aversion showed on us (Brahmins) by EVR,DK,DMK,Karunanithi on those days to till date is un forgetable.

Even today he uses to Point out Muppiri Nool in all his comment against Brahmins.

If a Corruption Charge is imposed on Him he immediately respond to it as It is the Charge framed against him by the Muppiri Nool and want to escape from those charges.

He is now 87 and EVR passed away at his 95th age.

Any one can imagine how our Community is Ill Treated by those 2 leaders. Nearly for a solid 100 years our community is particularly attacked purposely.

Hitler (mis) ruled for some few years against a Particular class of People.

Saddam particularly attacked a Particular class of people (Sunny Muslims) for just few years.

But we are Tortured for nearly 100 years. So the wound also will exist for some more years.

 

[ShivKC]

Hitler (mis) ruled for some few years against a Particular class of People.

Saddam particularly attacked a Particular class of people (Sunny Muslims) for just few years.

But we are Tortured for nearly 100 years. So the wound also will exist for some more years.

this is what NARA is also citing all along, asking people to do an introspection and find the answer to this Why? Why this century long hatred, and the graph is moving up tangentially, with no sign of plummeting?