Tamil Brahmins and Srilankan Tamils

[vsmuthu]

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I can relate the discrimination agains Brahmins (including Saiva pillai and saiva mudaliar and nattukottai chettiar) to the discrimination against Tamils in SriLanka, both are discriminated in their own lad.

And one lesson the rest of TN has to learn from Brahmins in TN and Srilankan Tamils is the more you compress a spring it is going to bounce hell of a lot.

I respect the Srilankan Tamils a lot as they are not influenced by the Stupid non-tamilian EVR's (who himself is a vadukar or northener) idealogies and they have a great respect for Brahmins. Especially in europe they are so keen to learn the carnatic music and vadhyams (seen as Brahmins stuff in TN), I can categorically say that atleast 90% people learning carnatic music in Europe are Srilankan Tamils.

One simple example, most of the Tamil Temples in Europe were established by Srilankan Tamils, so if they wanted they could have appointed one of their non-brahmin people as priests? did they? Still all the priests in Tamil Temples are from Brahmin community (SL and TN). They are more broad-minded than TN non-brahmin Tamils and they know appointing specialists for a job is always the correct thing.

This might sound silly, but remeber one dialogue from movie Madrassapattinam , where after independence the heroine tells her dad that "why should we leave the country we have made this our land" for that the dad replies "indians (he meant locals of madras at that time) are ungrateful people and we cannot stay". Excellent and True, I would say TN non-brahmin tamils are so ungrateful people who forget how brahmins have contributed to the development for Tamil language and literature and are stupidly influenced by the EVR and KK's idealogies, who both are non-tamilians. And one can tell that DMK Karunanidhi is NOT a tamilian because he did not care for the Tamils murdered or r**ed in SL during the recent war. I also have to agree that Vijakanth and Vaioko both Ethnic Telugu Naidu people supported Srilankan Tamils, may be for political benefits.

Btw Naidu's themself does not care about Periyar EVR as they come under FC category.

 

[pannvalan]

I share some of my views.

1. Except SC/ST and atheists of all castes, people from other communities like Pillais, Gounders, Chettiars and Naidus
respect Tamil Brahmins.

2. Mudaliars and Nadars have some grudge against TBs. But they do not want to physically harm TBs nor displace
them from their homeland.

3. Kailasanatha Gurukkal was a brahmin from Yazhppanam (Jaffna University) who has written "Vada Mozhi Ilakkiya
Varalaru" in Tamil.

4. It is quite true that many Tamil Sangams and Hindu temples abroad were established due to the initiative taken by
the Srilankan Tamils.

5. Srilankan Tamils are very intelligent, quick to adapt themselves to any situation or place. But, they are very
particular about retaining their cultural identity.

6. Srilankan Tamils never showed any interest in Tamilnadu politics, but were forced to seek asylum in Tamilnadu,
if the question of survival became foremost. This is only because of the geographical proximity and commonality of
language.

7. However, refugees from Sri Lanka settled in various parts of the state by T.N. government are over-exploited by the
local thugs and community leaders. Their living conditions are really deplorable.

8. Srilankan Tamils always love their motherland/place of birth.

9. Unfortunately, one section of Srilankan Tamil youth indulge in all white collar crimes like credit card/ATM card frauds,
drug trafficking and arms smuggling. They have lost their direction and driven to doom by various parties,
governments and agencies. Yet, none of their actions as described above can be justified or condoned.

10. Srilankan Tamils by nature are hard working, independent and hate doing menial jobs.

 

[happyhindu]

VS Muthu appears to be a new poster. The poster appears to be conveying his own views. No idea if the thread is like one of those intended to rake up rifts. Personally wud give such posts a skip.

Thanks.

 

[[email protected]]

To All: vsmuthu and pannvalan both postings is good, I wish to point out one thing that only srilankan Tamils require a registration at Police station and foreign national registration authority in india, but for Bangla dashies is not having this kind of registration, since they are pet votebank for communists in WB. Now slowely this Bangla deshies moved via Orrisa, Andhra,Karnataka and in Tamilnadu, this bangla dashies are danger to our nation since they are associated with Burma(Meyanmar)and china. Most of the Bamb Blastes by this labours and even Baberi masque demolisation by this bangla dashies on 6th dec., with the blessings from Jothi Basu.For Political gains all the parties play foul games. In tamilnadu polits no one is a true Tamilyan all leaders belong to Telugus. s.r.k.

 

[suraju06]

Eelam Tamils and Tambrams

//1. Except SC/ST and atheists of all castes, people from other communities like Pillais, Gounders, Chettiars and Naidus
respect Tamil Brahmins.

2. Mudaliars and Nadars have some grudge against TBs. But they do not want to physically harm TBs nor displace
them from their homeland.//

Dear Mr. Panvalan, SC/STs are not as much against brahmins as the BCs. Mudaliars and Pillais are certainly against Brahmins - may be to a lesser degree than the BC/OBC. It is just ennui and nothing else.Nadars just do not bother about brahmins. None of these castes have any respect for brahmins in Tamilnadu. They just tolerate brahmins and if they get an opportunity they would like to just get rid of them.

As far as EElam Tamils are concerned, they are a hard-working lot. Just like brahmins in Tamilnadu they were in powerful positions before the Sinhalese thought that their share of power was disproportionate to their numbers. Unlike Brahmins of Tamilnadu they resisted the Sinhalese attempt to cut them to size and we have the Eelam problem in hand. Eelam Tamils have no hatred for brahmins like the OBC/BC Tamils of Tamilnadu. They are also not very dogmatic about the Tamil Language. In Tamilnadu you will come across many second and third rung leaders in political parties who will swear by the Language saying" த்மில்(?) என் உயிர் மூச்சு!!!"

Now there is an interesting heated debate going on in the net about the proposal to include some grantha characters like ஷ, ஸ, ஹ, ஜ, க்ஷ in the proposed unicode standard for Tamil characters. You will be surprised to know that the Sri Lankan tamils participating in the discussion there are supportive of including the grantha characters in the unicode standard while many of the பச்சை தமிழர்கள் from the mainland are opposing it tooth and nail because of a perceived sanskrit domination. Because of pressure from the influential sections in Tamilnadu, The Chief Minister of Tamilnadu has also written to the Central Government that TN should be consulted before any recommendation is made in this regard. The Eelam Tamils are very accommodative of the need to include these characters at least for the archiving purposes because there are many literary gems in Tamil in மணிப்ரவாள நடை employing freely the grantha characters to represent some sounds which can not be represented in normal Tamil. They agree that the rich tradition and literature in the manipravaalam should not be lost/become inaccessible to the future generation of Tamils. Our mainland tamil fanatics will not have anything of that.

 

[Raghy]

Srilankan [COLOR=#DA7911 ! important][COLOR=#DA7911 ! important]Tamils[/COLOR][/COLOR]
by nature are hard working, independent and hate doing menial jobs.

Sri.Pannvalan Sir,

Greetings. Srilankan Tamils take up any available job. The first generation Srilankans had to take any job; but their children mostly study very well. So, the second generation onwards,, they are settled in professional jobs. For example, one Srilankan Tamil worked as a labourer in a biscuit factory; his first son studied medecine; second son studied Engineering. One more Srilankan Tamil who used to be a policeman worked as a labourer; his sons, one of them is a civil engineer, one of them is an architect..I can think of many examples. Then again, we are no different either.

Cheers!

 

[pannvalan]

By menial jobs I meant எடுபிடி வேலை. I know well that Srilankan Tamils will take up any lowly paid jobs but not those jobs which lower their dignity and pride. They hate slavery and servitude. They want freedom even in petty jobs so that they need not pledge their honour and pride.

 

[happyhindu]

Suraju has made some sweeping generalizations and assumptions.

Everyone of one 'caste' need not dislike an other person, especially on the basis of 'caste'. In general everyday interaction, who bothers about caste, religion and such things (or rather, who is 'able' to bother about such things). Love in innate in every human...and people by nature seek warmth and friendship. Sir, you are grossly mistaken in thinking that pillais, mudaliyars, and 'OBCs' dislike brahmins.

There are moderates and hardliners in every grouping. All srilankan tamils are not hardliners. Am not surprised they support inclusion of grantha characters. Srilankan Tamils worship Rama as much as we do. A good many associate with saiva siddhantam though, and their priests are usually gurukkals who by some of their accounts are considered native tamil priests. Generally priests across the very many hindu temples in srilanka are kapuralas (and by some accounts it does not take very long for a kapurala to transform himself into a gurukkal). The history of agamic religion (temple worship cult) is really interesting indeed. And i thot only the hawaians revered their kapu burial sites. But 'hindus' were far ahead in creating 'worship methodology' for their heroes and gods. Anyways, methinks it is very possible that these southies were the dasyus and temple priests (who were shunned) in the Manusmrithi. So perhaps what some consider 'anti-brahmanism' in the present times came about due to some unknown larger reason known only to the divine...perhaps it was intended by time and fate...

Regards.

 

[R. Ramanujan]

first of all tamil in Sri lanka have suffered so much at the hands of chavunists sinhalese so I sincerely pray for their well being.
The more u supress any particular group the more its zeal to succeed increases.
DMK has been running govt in a facist fashion. Though outer its shows as if it cares for all but inside its determined to isolate brahmins from every sphere of life. Be it business, Temple, Jobs. Its has used all its might with weapons like reservations etc etc.
I don't think it will be fair to blame the non brahmins coz they have been corrupted by DMK. They are no doubt successful monetarily but intellectually and morally bankrupt. They don't realise this. They have this impression among non brahmins that brahmins are our enemies and have discriminated us for centuries and its payback time. this is wrong way of running govt.

 

[happyhindu]

first of all tamil in Sri lanka have suffered so much at the hands of chavunists sinhalese so I sincerely pray for their well being.
The more u supress any particular group the more its zeal to succeed increases.
DMK has been running govt in a facist fashion. Though outer its shows as if it cares for all but inside its determined to isolate brahmins from every sphere of life. Be it business, Temple, Jobs. Its has used all its might with weapons like reservations etc etc.
I don't think it will be fair to blame the non brahmins coz they have been corrupted by DMK. They are no doubt successful monetarily but intellectually and morally bankrupt. They don't realise this. They have this impression among non brahmins that brahmins are our enemies and have discriminated us for centuries and its payback time. this is wrong way of running govt.

Dear Ramanujam,

Brahmins are not the only people who do not get reservations. So reservations are not weapons to 'isolate brahmins'.

It is a gross genralisation to say that NBs are corrupted by DMK and are intellectually and morally bankarupt.

The average person on the street hardly understand politics. S/he wud merely vote for a person who promises jobs, uninteruptted electricity, good water supply, good roads, etc.

People are sensible enuf to vote for good living conditions, rather than caste /religion issues today.

It is also true that people in general want equality. Therefore if DMK trains 'NB' people to become purohits, it is not opposed by the masses. In a way, i think this will actually be beneficial to hinduism as it will help retain people within 'hinduism'.

Regards.

 

[R. Ramanujan]

i agree that others also get reservations. but in perfect civil society democratic secular there is no place for reservations. lots of my fellow brahmin frnds not so good in studies and get disillusioned with so many reservations. they have great urge to serve their own people. but r helpless and powerless. its very diffcult to maintain composure in such cases.

i did not mean all non brahmins. but there r few who r. meaning they get power they get evil tendencies that they can do anything. now rest r at their mercy.

yes that is a point. but vote in india is predominantly on caste basis its bitter truth.perfect ex would be parliament where ppl from different regions come and they represent ppl. they won't accept others to represent them coz they don't trust them. the trust deficit is big thing. plus p2p contact esp other communities is lacking resulting in lack of understanding of their peculiar probs and living conditions and cultures. in North there is utmost ignorance about south and north east cultures.

in rural areas and semi rural areas which form majority vote is cast on caste basis. they c nothing else. in fact recently an MP from andhra was forced to resign after SC found out that he was a christian not a hindu from a particular clan. and he hide it. that is fact boss.

i never said the nb's can't read vedas or become purohits. i feel in every aspect their must be standardisation. i feel instead govt' schools must be compulsory to study vedas and upanishads apart from ramayana and mahabhrarata. Equality can only be achieved when every one thinks alike and no groupism.

tk cr boss.

 

[suraju06]

//People are sensible enuf to vote for good living conditions, rather than caste /religion issues today.//

Every political party and every candidate in an election promise exactly that. So that is not the issue at all. Every party evaluates the winning potential of a candidate in India on the basis of the dominant castes in the constituency.The candidate selected by a party invariably belongs to the majority caste in the constituency and people also vote on that basis only. People ignoring the caste
while voting is an utopian concept in India.

 

[happyhindu]

//People are sensible enuf to vote for good living conditions, rather than caste /religion issues today.//

Every political party and every candidate in an election promise exactly that. So that is not the issue at all. Every party evaluates the winning potential of a candidate in India on the basis of the dominant castes in the constituency.The candidate selected by a party invariably belongs to the majority caste in the constituency and people also vote on that basis only. People ignoring the caste
while voting is an utopian concept in India.

Well, atleast i personally do not know people who are voting on the basis of caste today. Some examples:
1) My mom still votes for jayalalitha (it is the effect of glamour and 'feminism' in this case, not caste).
2) In the last elections, a dmk candidate visited some houses and promised roads. Nobody asked the dmk guy's caste. People of that area voted for the dmk guy because he assured them good roads (no one seems to have voted for caste).
3) Same thing happened in bangalore. One bjp candidate not only promised roads buy also some other infrastructure works. Needless to say, people voted for him. No one knows the bjp candidate's caste. He spoke only kannada but people who voted for him were telugus.
4) I also heard people in ranipet, pudukottai, madurai, etc voted for candidates who promised jobs. Here too no one was interested in knowing the candidates' caste. They want more industries, better jobs and a better life. That's all.

Perhaps politicians imagine that people will vote for them on the basis of caste. Perhaps such politicians only lose elections. Because for people, it all about what benefit they get.

 

[suraju06]

Happy Hindu,

You are too simple and good and so have missed the obvious in the indian political scene today. God bless you.

 

[happyhindu]

Sri Raju,

Perhaps as an outsider i have understood the situation somewhat better...

Caste tends to be used by politicians truly.....but for people, it is indeed true that they are motivated either by their needs or by glamour.

Glamour and "fan-effect" have been deciding politics for a long time indeed. Fans can be so besotted with their idols that they fail to see anything negative in them.

Same is the case with women like my mom. They will blame sashikala and family for bringing disrepute of corruption to JJ.. But they cannot see anything wrong in JJ -- they are so blinded by glamour and the 'fan-effect'..

Which is perhaps why movie stars have always found it easy in politics.

But today in the present time, people do overlook glamour for their benefits.

If a man earns Rs.5000 in a factory he will naturally vote for a candidate who promises to bring a big factory like ford to his locality...because he feels the MNC will pay him atleast Rs.7000 for the same job.

Tomorrow if Rajanikant stands in elections, the whole of Tamilnadu will vote for him. Will any single such person vote on the basis of caste?

I too will vote for Rajanikanth...everyone knows he has the ability to do something positive for the masses. No caste factor here.

Regards.

 

[suraju06]

Sri Raju,

Perhaps as an outsider i have understood the situation somewhat better...

Caste tends to be used by politicians truly.....but for people, it is indeed true that they are motivated either by their needs or by glamour.

Glamour and "fan-effect" have been deciding politics for a long time indeed. Fans can be so besotted with their idols that they fail to see anything negative in them.

Same is the case with women like my mom. They will blame sashikala and family for bringing disrepute of corruption to JJ.. But they cannot see anything wrong in JJ -- they are so blinded by glamour and the 'fan-effect'..

Which is perhaps why movie stars have always found it easy in politics.

But today in the present time, people do overlook glamour for their benefits.

If a man earns Rs.5000 in a factory he will naturally vote for a candidate who promises to bring a big factory like ford to his locality...because he feels the MNC will pay him atleast Rs.7000 for the same job.

Tomorrow if Rajanikant stands in elections, the whole of Tamilnadu will vote for him. Will any single such person vote on the basis of caste?

I too will vote for Rajanikanth...everyone knows he has the ability to do something positive for the masses. No caste factor here.

Regards.

Dear HH,
Lo! How simple your world is. If Rajinikanth stands for election today and selects candidates belonging to minority caste in every constituency in Tamilnadu, he will be in for a surprise when the results come. In spite of his charisma he will loose the election miserably. MGR was well aware of this and he was careful to use caste as the factor for selection of winning candidates. The first candidate he fielded in Dindigul election was a Maya Thevar. He made it a point to publicise the Thevar suffix in every poster. Dear HH, ideals of every political party is different from the ground realities. No political party today is ready to even experiment with ideals. If you have some idea of who are the district and circle secretaries of the various political parties, it will be revealing. Please try to understand the reality. The only exception to this general rule of a chieftain being supported by various caste leaders for the purpose of dividing the spoils of power in an equitable way is the Communist parties. I am sure you know where the communist parties stand today in power sharing.Cheers.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear HH,
Lo! How simple your world is. If Rajinikanth stands for election today and selects candidates belonging to minority caste in every constituency in Tamilnadu, he will be in for a surprise when the results come. In spite of his charisma he will loose the election miserably. MGR was well aware of this and he was careful to use caste as the factor for selection of winning candidates. The first candidate he fielded in Dindigul election was a Maya Thevar. He made it a point to publicise the Thevar suffix in every poster. Dear HH, ideals of every political party is different from the ground realities. No political party today is ready to even experiment with ideals. If you have some idea of who are the district and circle secretaries of the various political parties, it will be revealing. Please try to understand the reality. The only exception to this general rule of a chieftain being supported by various caste leaders for the purpose of dividing the spoils of power in an equitable way is the Communist parties. I am sure you know where the communist parties stand today in power sharing.Cheers.

Perhaps you are right sir...and perhaps casteism is the reason why politics is so sullied.

But i wud not think the mgr situation wud exist today....people are definitely getting sensible...awareness level is also getting higher..

Btw, awareness also creates another kind of problems...ppl do not want to vote if they do not find a good candidate.

None of my cousins across tamilandu have cast their vote even once...only elderly people go and wait in the queue to vote..

This is what i seem to observe from my limited view.

Regards.

 

[R. Ramanujan]

well said.

Happy Hindu,

You are too simple and good and so have missed the obvious in the indian political scene today. God bless you.

i agree with u there. essentially DMK is a jackal in sheep's coat so it can't be trusted. thats it.

just can't be totally innocent and good in today's dynamic world.
they just post some puppet brahmin with strings attached and its nothing but symbolism. but i must say here that anbazhagan finance minister has high integrity.

There will come a time when it won't matter. But im optimistic that a time will come when people should reject this kind of symbolism. get the best man for job whose integrity and sincerity is unquestionable.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Election & Selection

i agree with u there. essentially DMK is a jackal in sheep's coat so it can't be trusted. thats it.

just can't be totally innocent and good in today's dynamic world.
they just post some puppet brahmin with strings attached and its nothing but symbolism. but i must say here that anbazhagan finance minister has high integrity.

There will come a time when it won't matter. But im optimistic that a time will come when people should reject this kind of symbolism. get the best man for job whose integrity and sincerity is unquestionable.

Whether it is cast-based selection or antibrahminic election The leader of the leading constituents cannot be a Tamilian, leave alone MK. It is really surprising why Tamilians do not like Tamilian to rule them?:suspicious:

 

[R. Ramanujan]

Whether it is cast-based selection or antibrahminic election The leader of the leading constituents cannot be a Tamilian, leave alone MK. It is really surprising why Tamilians do not like Tamilian to rule them?:suspicious:

according to me secular north indian brahmin dominated congress is much better than blood sucking, hypocrite and corrupt DMK. Only exception in DMK leadership was Arignar Anna. But current leadership lacks political neutrality.
DMK changes its color like chameleon. Earlier they used to preach rationality and atheism and now to please some sections who follow religion they indulge in hyphocricy. Its the same MK who said that Ram and Sita were Brothers and Sisters during Setu controversy. He can't be trusted. DMK's days are numbered. It very well knows. That's why now the atheists have started taking advice of Astrologers. The writing is on the wall. DMK has inbuilt hatred for TB's which is well known. They say no to rituals and now do homam.
Mark my words congress will be the single largest party in TN.

 

[pannvalan]

Even though Congress at the centre enjoyed power for over 50 years and is noted for its misrule and several blunders of Indian polity, it is a better choice than many other parties. BJP too is embroiled in neck deep controversies and internecine quarrels.

Turning to Tamilnadu, Congress is a bundle of incoherent mass and there is absolute lack of unity. Yet, they may be a safer bet than DMK.

If Congress aligns with AIADMK, I think it will win overwhelmingly.

 

[S.Chandrasekaran]

Dear All,
Namasthe. I bow to Srilangan Tamil peoples for their motherland affection, hard working and their real affection with our caste.
with love,
manushyan.

 

[R. Ramanujan]

reply

Even though Congress at the centre enjoyed power for over 50 years and is noted for its misrule and several blunders of Indian polity, it is a better choice than many other parties. BJP too is embroiled in neck deep controversies and internecine quarrels.

Turning to Tamilnadu, Congress is a bundle of incoherent mass and there is absolute lack of unity. Yet, they may be a safer bet than DMK.

If Congress aligns with AIADMK, I think it will win overwhelmingly.

SONIA JI is the binding factor among all congress workers. NO one dares to question her dictat. But sir BJP comes with another bundle "HINDI". BOTH congress and BJP are evils but congress is lesser evil. Plus BJP isolates NB's though it will never say openly. They will do the same thing if they come to power in TN which DMK has been doing against TB's. then whats the diff b/w BJP and DMK.
Congress is very clever. It tries to come independently but makr my words sir they think DMK as a political liability now. But not say it openly. They will play their cards carefully. Its like chess. Both congress and DMK are interdependent. but dmk knows that it can't go beyond a limit.

congress used RJD lalu when he had the numbers and when he didn't get the numbers congress dumped him. Its all in numbers ayya. and congress plays it smartly. as long as hen is giving gold eggs it will keep and when it stops giving it will be given to the butcher.

my views on sonia are very neutral. many say that she practices christinaty, eats beef, encourages import of beef, foreign origin but her integrity and her love for the nation can't be questioned. she learnt hindi also.
many members have extreme antipathy towards secularism, that it has eating into hinduism but i say its the way to go abt in today's world. Hindus should adapt to it. essentially all religions preach the same thing only diff religions perspectives abt world are different. if we think on those lines then we will never question who is hindu, muslim, sikh, christian.

 

[prasanth1]

I wish to contribute to the original topic rather than the secondary argument about TN caste..
Regarding sri lankan tamils,
I am currently in Toronto, Canada, studying in university. Soon I discovered most Tamils here are from Sri lanka. One thing I really must thank the SriLankan tamils for is their dedication to teaching their kids carnatic music / bharatanatyam so that there are so many events every month. I have also participated in some of these events, it was a great experience. They have a lot of courtesy for TBs especially musicians, they love to bring over TB musicians to accompany in TV programs or arangetrams, etc. Definitely they will play a large part in preserving classical music.

They are an interesting bunch.....Someone said earlier SL tamils are not so militant language. Well I think that is both true and false. They definitely really are strongly devoted to tamizh, there are dozens of schools dedicated to teaching children to retain their language here in toronto. however, they have no militancy, for example temple ceremonies are all conducted in sanskrit. In other words, they love their language but do not hate others, whereas sometimes in TN it feels like you must like only Tamil and despise all others.

 

[srikrish85]

I wish to contribute to the original topic rather than the secondary argument about TN caste..
Regarding sri lankan tamils,
I am currently in Toronto, Canada, studying in university. Soon I discovered most Tamils here are from Sri lanka. One thing I really must thank the SriLankan tamils for is their dedication to teaching their kids carnatic music / bharatanatyam so that there are so many events every month. I have also participated in some of these events, it was a great experience. They have a lot of courtesy for TBs especially musicians, they love to bring over TB musicians to accompany in TV programs or arangetrams, etc. Definitely they will play a large part in preserving classical music.

They are an interesting bunch.....Someone said earlier SL tamils are not so militant language. Well I think that is both true and false. They definitely really are strongly devoted to tamizh, there are dozens of schools dedicated to teaching children to retain their language here in toronto. however, they have no militancy, for example temple ceremonies are all conducted in sanskrit. In other words, they love their language but do not hate others, whereas sometimes in TN it feels like you must like only Tamil and despise all others.

Agreed 100 percent