TB - Mid Life Crisis!

[tks]

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Midlife crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Definition:

Midlife crisis is a term coined in 1965 by Elliott Jaques and used in Western societies to describe a period of dramatic self-doubt that is felt by some individuals in the "middle years" or middle age of life, as a result of sensing the passing of their own youth and the imminence of their old age. Sometimes, a crisis can be triggered by transitions experienced in these years, such as extramarital affairs, andropause or menopause, the death of parents or other causes of grief, unemployment or underemployment, realizing that a job or career is hated but not knowing how else to earn an equivalent living, or children leaving home. The result may be a desire to make significant changes in core aspects of day-to-day life or situation, such as in career, work-life balance, marriage, romantic relationships, big-ticket expenditures, or physical appearance.

---

Having lived away from India after my teen years my primary exposure is only to people living in USA. I have come across few TB (first generation immigrants) displaying behaviors such as extramarital affairs possibly characterizing a midlife crisis. But by and large I have come across transformation in a few in the area of how they approach religious traditions.

• If someone was a-religious for most of their life, around 50+ age or so , I have seen few developing sudden interest in going to temples, doing all kinds of rituals, trying to learn some Vedanta, try to hang around by some swamijis, try to get their reluctant kids to get some cultural and religious instructions.
• If someone was raised in strict households where they are taught how to recite slokas etc with proper pronunciation, exposed to a whole lot of rituals but with limited big-picture of why what is done, I have seen a few take a 180 degrees change and become self proclaimed atheists or call themselves agnostics.

I am not sure if above changes in behaviors observed by me around 50-55 from my limited pool of contacts could really be called symptoms of midlife crisis.

I did not experience any crisis that I know of , neither did my wife. At least no one told me

Have you come across midlife crisis among TB types? Is this purely a western phenomena since they all believe in one life and hence they have to live it up even when things do not go their way in life.

Please share your views and experience.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear tks,

i am 61 (almost) and resided in canada for 37+ years.

while i have a set of long lasting white friends, from university days, the bulk of our friends are tambrams. of our age group.

i have not observed any radical changes like you did. but then, the tambrams who immigrated to canada during the 70s, wre not of the academic 'par excellence' like those who arrived on the shores of god's own country.

most immigrated through family connections, and did normal professions outside of the academia or medicine. hence, these were less inhibited, more into alcohol and disco, than rudram and bhajagovindam.

in fact, it has been our normal taunt, that our american cousins, are not only uptight, but tight on their keys to the bar, and their ba**s.

so, to answer your query, i have not noticed any noticeable change of behaviour of our 60 year olds towards religiosity, with fear of the drawing inevitable curtain of life.

but most tambrams here, of my age, live a comfortable self defined dwaita - poonal, amavasai, rudram (when warranted), elaborate altar and (ofcourse) navrathri. the other part of the dwaita is: alcohol, chicken (no beef, mutton, seafood), dancing to sheila ki jawani et al, and a faor amount of discomfort towards the new young tambram immigrants who come here via mideast, fired up with the zeal of hindutva, their antidote to the extreme wahabi islam of saudi and its cousins.

i also think, that many of these are tempered, by the gloriously independent free will and springlike thinking of their children - brought up in the most noble canadian tradition of tolerance tinged with the western respect for the individual.

when your child marries a punjabi, sikh, white, gujju, parsi, bengali etc.. your natural instinct is to search for common roots. we are indeed gifted with the concept that is india and we find not much discord except in the mind of the neanderthals, which is usually the stupid father of the tambram girl.

i do not know of any who married a christian indian. i know of one tambram girl who married a practising trinidadcolonial muslim ( a rarity) a few years her junior. the parents, incidentally, are among the most extreme practising brahmins, and when i met the father the last time, he was extolling the virtues of the universality of manhood & the commonality of human values , beyond faith, beyond the narrow confines of caste and creed, and the immense joys of a grandson. quite a change from what he espoused.. earlier, and for a long time, much to the discomfort of many.

yours truly has had some midlife crisis. all of a suddden, i threw out the habit of intense reading (5 or more books a week) to abandoning it altogether, and swapping it for bollywood/kollywood movies .

go figure this out!!

an explanation at some future post.

greetings, haveagoodday and bestwishes...

 

[renuka]

Mid life crisis is the most abused word after the word Love.

Its almost like this..when we cross 40 suddenly life appears a bit boring to many and we see lots of changes in the way we view things partly becos of experiences aquired and lots of adventures also are embarked around this time esp the Close Encounters of the Illicit Kind.

But what I want to highlight is..Is anyone really complaining of a Mid Life Crisis?
See its like this....only when one gets caught for some close encounters only then Mid Life Crisis comes into the picture till then everyone above 40 is singing "Its My Life".

YouTube - ‪Bon Jovi - It's My Life (Video Clip - RARE!!)‬‏

 

[tks]

Mid life crisis is the most abused word after the word Love.

Its almost like this..when we cross 40 suddenly life appears a bit boring to many and we see lots of changes in the way we view things partly becos of experiences aquired and lots of adventures also are embarked around this time esp the Close Encounters of the Illicit Kind.

But what I want to highlight is..Is anyone really complaining of a Mid Life Crisis?
See its like this....only when one gets caught for some close encounters only then Mid Life Crisis comes into the picture till then everyone above 40 is singing "Its My Life".

YouTube - ‪Bon Jovi - It's My Life (Video Clip - RARE!!)‬‏

Smt Renuka -

You are close to 40, and you are singing "its my life"

Keep doing that!

Joining this forum was your way was working out the crisis I guess,

just kidding of course !!

It is over used term perhaps but some western friends I know have made radical changes in their mid-50s - like quitting a nice job on their own, opening a Pizza place, get divorced, seek love over internet chat forums etc.

In my own neighborhood there was an American family - husband, wife and one child. Many years ago my parents-in-laws were visiting and met these people at our home around Navarathri time when my wife invites anyone that she knows. Around this time, the husband had his crisis and developed interest in what might be deemed perverted pleasures outside marriage. Anyway they split and my father in law could not understand this whole concept of mid-life crisis. When they went back to India they went to some temples on behalf of this couple to get together and sent Prasadams to be given to them. Anyway none of these helped!

So I have seen this kind of changes in people from the west.

I guess this term is non-existent in India..and perhaps in Malaysia too!

 

[renuka]

Smt Renuka -

You are close to 40, and you are singing "its my life"

Keep doing that!

Joining this forum was your way was working out the crisis I guess,

just kidding of course !!

It is over used term perhaps but some western friends I know have made radical changes in their mid-50s - like quitting a nice job on their own, opening a Pizza place, get divorced, seek love over internet chat forums etc.

In my own neighborhood there was an American family - husband, wife and one child. Many years ago my parents-in-laws were visiting and met these people at our home around Navarathri time when my wife invites anyone that she knows. Around this time, the husband had his crisis and developed interest in what might be deemed perverted pleasures outside marriage. Anyway they split and my father in law could not understand this whole concept of mid-life crisis. When they went back to India they went to some temples on behalf of this couple to get together and sent Prasadams to be given to them. Anyway none of these helped!

So I have seen this kind of changes in people from the west.

I guess this term is non-existent in India..and perhaps in Malaysia too!

Dear TKS,

I am not close to 40 but rather over 40!
You know my fav song is still "I want to break free" anyway believe me this Midlife Crisis syndrome is prevalent all over the world and I guess in Asia its just not as much as discussed and we Asians do a good cover up job becos we are supposed to be having "values".

I guess may be Indians who have been in the west for a long time are more open about their behaviour cos the Western Society there might not be too close nit and to a certain extent Westerners are less judgemental and owing to this we might find Indians there with MLC(Mid Life Crisis).

Out here in Malaysia its a very small country, you can take a drive from North Malaysia to South Malaysia in 6 hours on traffic free days.So believe me everyone would like the "behave" or cover up their tracks well cos News Travels.

 

[sravna]

Western notions are beginning to considerably influence our society in all spheres of life. We never had the concept of divorce, gay marriage, mid-life crisis etc before. While I agree we can learn ceratin things from the westerners, we should not totally ape them. We need to preserve our uniquness by practicing them. I am not talking of rituals, ceremonies or things like kudumi and therefore not our lifestyle but the philosophy of life as in the vedas. That is the what is relevant for all the times. The rest may or may not be in sync with the times.

Sorry about the digression. Coming to the mid-life crisis, I think it is experienced because that is the point you begin to take stock of what you have achieved and how successful you have been in life. People who experience that crisis may be the ones who think they have failed in their life. The western way of thinking accentuates this problem because success is measured by wordly achievements. Since we are beginning to adopt the western way of thinking and living we are seeing problems in our society that hitherto afflicted only the western societies.

 

[DrBarani]

I think some of you are still very young at 61, and the thoughts about "mid-life" should wait until well after you near 80...

 

[tks]

Western notions are beginning to considerably influence our society in all spheres of life. We never had the concept of divorce, gay marriage, mid-life crisis etc before. While I agree we can learn ceratin things from the westerners, we should not totally ape them. We need to preserve our uniquness by practicing them. I am not talking of rituals, ceremonies or things like kudumi and therefore not our lifestyle but the philosophy of life as in the vedas. That is the what is relevant for all the times. The rest may or may not be in sync with the times.

Sorry about the digression. Coming to the mid-life crisis, I think it is experienced because that is the point you begin to take stock of what you have achieved and how successful you have been in life. People who experience that crisis may be the ones who think they have failed in their life. The western way of thinking accentuates this problem because success is measured by wordly achievements. Since we are beginning to adopt the western way of thinking and living we are seeing problems in our society that hitherto afflicted only the western societies.

Sravana - Somehow up until 70s "Hinduism as a way of life" had survived. I remember while growing up that vacation meant going to a temple or a pilgrimage site or visiting relatives. Classical music or dance and cultural entertainment themes are based on Ramayana or some Puranas. The movies tended to reflect a value within the culture.

Today the western culture - mostly the bad aspects - is riding through the whole country completely truncated from the underlying traditions.
Not sure if Hinduism as it was known will survive this. People probably have less 'inner leisure' these days. Plus with so many in call center workers who pretend to be someone else with a different accent all day is going to have an effect on the whole society over time.

Unfortunately many people describe words like 'Maya' like Christians describe the Devil and its influence.

In the west people believe by and large that there is only one life. So when things begin to not work out in their mid life there is a possibility of a personal crisis.

Hindus still believe in a future birth and the stress may be less - I am only speculating and could be wrong.

 

[tbs]

hi,
everybody has to pass many crisis in life....life is not bed of roses always....if it is rose..then it has thorn too....so we human beings

has mainly three crisis......young age crisis.....mid life crisis....old age crisis....everybody has to through these passages....still

many are in mid life crisis....but never agree in reality......its kind of phobia or stress.....but our philosophy clearly mentioned

in vedas....when we follow ashrama dharmas...life will be less stress.....like brahmacharya/grihastha/vaanaprsstha/sanyasa dharmas...

but due western material thinking.....we are more stress than happiness,,.....we achieved/developed more worldly material prosperity...

but we are still very less achieved spiritually/philosophically.......LIKE INDIA IS RICH...BUT INDIANS ARE POOR....

regards
tbs

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Interesting thread. I recollect Madonna's song, "Life is a mystery....".

I think I am at the mid-age now (Early-40). Sometimes I feel this is the best part of my life. But some other times I have vagaries. In my case, the all-familiar problem of an NRI (whether to return to India and if yes, when?) adds another further dimension. But I would still not like to call it a crisis.

 

[kunjuppu]

Western notions are beginning to considerably influence our society in all spheres of life. We never had the concept of divorce, gay marriage, mid-life crisis etc before. While I agree we can learn ceratin things from the westerners, we should not totally ape them. We need to preserve our uniquness by practicing them. I am not talking of rituals, ceremonies or things like kudumi and therefore not our lifestyle but the philosophy of life as in the vedas. That is the what is relevant for all the times. The rest may or may not be in sync with the times. .

Sravana,

I don’t think it is fair to all of us, to be grouped as a tribe to ape the west. Barring a few, most of us are instinctly selective as to what is good for us, whether it be east or west.

As a corollary to be initial statement, I think we can also say, that we are getting more critical of our own practices, and have never given a second thought to discard what we consider cumbersome. (like kudumi ?)

Each one of us is unique. While as tambrams, we may have some more commonalities, it is not necessarily so. Of late I have been watching vijay tv neeyaa naanaa. Many of the shows are of current titillating topics, but the underlying value system, is much like ours. Believe it or not, a vanniar marrying a mudaliar, is as much intercaste, and causes just as much if not more angst, to both the groups (who will marry the sibling? Appears to be the primary query).

Re us not having the concept of mid-life before England ruled us – I think we simply don’t know. There is no record of tambram life, either during the millenniums before. After all ‘pratapa mudaliar charitram’ was the first play in tamil, and that too happened only late 1800s.

Even if we look up north, kalidasa’s plays cannot be considered a reflection of day to day lives. The closest that I know of ordinary life, is tenali raman stories, and raman definitely had his share of daily problems including a bossy wife, unsympathetic government and had to live by his wit to survive. Not quite different than today, in many respects.

Coming to the mid-life crisis, I think it is experienced because that is the point you begin to take stock of what you have achieved and how successful you have been in life. People who experience that crisis may be the ones who think they have failed in their life. The western way of thinking accentuates this problem because success is measured by wordly achievements. Since we are beginning to adopt the western way of thinking and living we are seeing problems in our society that hitherto afflicted only the western societies.

I think we all tend to introspect ever once in a while and take stock of our life. Around the 50s, 60s, there may be a feeling, to do certain things that we have been putting off. or a desire to pick up stuff, that we have been postponing.

This is not a western import. I am quite sure that if we look carefully into our own family, we may be able to detect similar gradual but certainly different change of attitude and practices, amongst our uncles, parents etc. my own dad, became an ayyappa bhaktha at 50, and enjoyed to the hilt, the backstabbing and plots in the samajam – the intrigues (per my mother) could rival indira gandhi’s cabinet.

The characteristic of western civilization, is starting definitely from the 1500s, everything has been recorded. We have records to just about the number of daily ablutions of queen Elizabeth I. too bad, in our culture, time is looked upon as timeless. What detailed records we have of india, is thanks to the british, through their observations, novels (yes there is a fair bit on british experience in india) and books.

Sir, I think, we too focus on worldly achievements. Our Indian kids today, do not have fun to grow up. They are inundated with tuition, music, dance, sports etc all organized, and not in the nonchalant casual way that I grew up. Is this western? No. white kids in the west, take life easy and grow up at their own pace. Their society lets them do it,and their intrinsic prosperity affords it.

India, like china, has a small pie, to be divided into a lot of pieces. Should we blame the west for our exploding population – caused mainly by western initiated ideas like improvement in public health, immunization etc?

So sum, I think ‘midlife crisis’ as we understand it, ie unexplained change of behaviour in a man, in his 50s to 60s, is a universal man ‘thing’. And leave it at that.

Perhaps, if it could be possible, you could ask some70 year olds that you know, and live in india, whether they too experienced ‘mid life’ crisis. And hope for a frank answer. might be fun too

 

[kunjuppu]

Interesting thread. I recollect Madonna's song, "Life is a mystery....".

I think I am at the mid-age now (Early-40). Sometimes I feel this is the best part of my life. But some other times I have vagaries. In my case, the all-familiar problem of an NRI (whether to return to India and if yes, when?) adds another further dimension. But I would still not like to call it a crisis.

siva,

you are not mid age under any definition. pre mid age? maybe

i think nowadays, you need to touch 55 (atleast 50) to qualify for this club. no rush

 

[sravna]

Sravana,

I don’t think it is fair to all of us, to be grouped as a tribe to ape the west. Barring a few, most of us are instinctly selective as to what is good for us, whether it be east or west.

As a corollary to be initial statement, I think we can also say, that we are getting more critical of our own practices, and have never given a second thought to discard what we consider cumbersome. (like kudumi ?)

Each one of us is unique. While as tambrams, we may have some more commonalities, it is not necessarily so. Of late I have been watching vijay tv neeyaa naanaa. Many of the shows are of current titillating topics, but the underlying value system, is much like ours. Believe it or not, a vanniar marrying a mudaliar, is as much intercaste, and causes just as much if not more angst, to both the groups (who will marry the sibling? Appears to be the primary query).

Re us not having the concept of mid-life before England ruled us – I think we simply don’t know. There is no record of tambram life, either during the millenniums before. After all ‘pratapa mudaliar charitram’ was the first play in tamil, and that too happened only late 1800s.

Even if we look up north, kalidasa’s plays cannot be considered a reflection of day to day lives. The closest that I know of ordinary life, is tenali raman stories, and raman definitely had his share of daily problems including a bossy wife, unsympathetic government and had to live by his wit to survive. Not quite different than today, in many respects.



I think we all tend to introspect ever once in a while and take stock of our life. Around the 50s, 60s, there may be a feeling, to do certain things that we have been putting off. or a desire to pick up stuff, that we have been postponing.

This is not a western import. I am quite sure that if we look carefully into our own family, we may be able to detect similar gradual but certainly different change of attitude and practices, amongst our uncles, parents etc. my own dad, became an ayyappa bhaktha at 50, and enjoyed to the hilt, the backstabbing and plots in the samajam – the intrigues (per my mother) could rival indira gandhi’s cabinet.

The characteristic of western civilization, is starting definitely from the 1500s, everything has been recorded. We have records to just about the number of daily ablutions of queen Elizabeth I. too bad, in our culture, time is looked upon as timeless. What detailed records we have of india, is thanks to the british, through their observations, novels (yes there is a fair bit on british experience in india) and books.

Sir, I think, we too focus on worldly achievements. Our Indian kids today, do not have fun to grow up. They are inundated with tuition, music, dance, sports etc all organized, and not in the nonchalant casual way that I grew up. Is this western? No. white kids in the west, take life easy and grow up at their own pace. Their society lets them do it,and their intrinsic prosperity affords it.

India, like china, has a small pie, to be divided into a lot of pieces. Should we blame the west for our exploding population – caused mainly by western initiated ideas like improvement in public health, immunization etc?

So sum, I think ‘midlife crisis’ as we understand it, ie unexplained change of behaviour in a man, in his 50s to 60s, is a universal man ‘thing’. And leave it at that.

Perhaps, if it could be possible, you could ask some70 year olds that you know, and live in india, whether they too experienced ‘mid life’ crisis. And hope for a frank answer. might be fun too

Well, You may be right. btw, you have a very smooth and suave way of expressing your thoughts.

 

[kunjuppu]

Well, You may be right. btw, you have a very smooth and suave way of expressing your thoughts.

complement?

insult?

neither?

 

[jaisiyaraam]

Well, You may be right. btw, you have a very smooth and suave way of expressing your thoughts.

complement?

insult?

neither?

Namaste Kunjuppuji,

I agree with sravnaji and I was thinking the same when I was reading your post(reply/response to sravna) and to pay compliments to you/your style of writing without hurting other person --- you are the best Sir !!! I wish, if not learn, atleast I can ape your writing style.

Western notions are beginning to considerably influence our society in all spheres of life. We never had the concept of divorce, gay marriage, mid-life crisis etc before...

...The western way of thinking accentuates this problem because success is measured by wordly achievements. Since we are beginning to adopt the western way of thinking and living we are seeing problems in our society that hitherto afflicted only the western societies.

Namaste Sravnaji,

I have come across one (there might be many more) WESTERN couple who never got married (Temple,Church or Mosque etc.,), never made any vows in public, never got register marriage, never even heard the word India and its great culture/heritage, never read/heard the word Veda/Vedas or its underlying philosophies, never believing in GOD, never affiliated to any religion, never even heard about Advaitam/Atma etc., but are still living together as loving couple ie wife & husband and are proud parents of their kid.

I have come across upteen married INDIAN couples (married in temples, married unders auspicious timings set by astrologers, married by the blessings of loving parents, family members, relatives & friends, following rituals to the mark) and still leading loveless(infidel)married/family life making & raising kids, quarrelling with each other all the times in even after arrival of DILs/SILs/Grand Kids, sitting together to perform poojas/rituals but not seeing each other eye-to-eye or on talking terms.

I hope you got the point Sir !!!

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

 

[biswa]

I have come across upteen married INDIAN couples (married in temples, married unders auspicious timings set by astrologers, married by the blessings of loving parents, family members, relatives & friends, following rituals to the mark) and still leading loveless(infidel)married/family life making & raising kids, quarrelling with each other all the times in even after arrival of DILs/SILs/Grand Kids, sitting together to perform poojas/rituals but not seeing each other eye-to-eye or on talking terms.

Jai Ho Mr. Kunjuppu ji! Now after that customary invocation, I would like to make a controversial proposition in response to JSR's comment above.

Is it possible that the marital discord, the not-seeing-eye-to-eye was always there, even in previous generations? Maybe it was dormant, or not publicly expressed until the modern woman picked up the courage to challenge the man?

Have we not seen Indian couples of the older generation where the husband totally dominates the wife and the wife responds only by under-the-breath remarks or complaints to the kids? It is just that it was fashionable in earlier times to protest or even go the extent of divorce. Now everything is done out in the open, perhaps for the better.

 

[sravna]

complement?

insult?

neither?

definitely a compliment!

 

[renuka]

Jai Ho Mr. Kunjuppu ji! Now after that customary invocation, I would like to make a controversial proposition in response to JSR's comment above.

Is it possible that the marital discord, the not-seeing-eye-to-eye was always there, even in previous generations? Maybe it was dormant, or not publicly expressed until the modern woman picked up the courage to challenge the man?

Have we not seen Indian couples of the older generation where the husband totally dominates the wife and the wife responds only by under-the-breath remarks or complaints to the kids? It is just that it was fashionable in earlier times to protest or even go the extent of divorce. Now everything is done out in the open, perhaps for the better.

I agree with Biswa, problems have been there even before and in those so called good old days, parents were not as supportive to daughters after they were married and any marital discord in daughters marriage will be only viewed as bringing shame to the family and the future of other unmarried daughters might be affected cos some how we Indians think that marriage is the most important event in a girls life.

I personally feel marriage is just a phase of life we all go thru and our Varnashrama systems also supports that otherwise it would just culminated in the Grhasta stage.

So I dont really think its western influence on our thinking otherwise I would have had Asian men holding the door for me.Yet to meet one who does this.

BTW why dont we Asians ever pick up any good habit from the Westerners like being less of a litter bug.
We revere Bhooma Devi but throw rubbish out of the window and the argue that by doing so the Sweeper gets to have a job etc.

May be we just revere ourselves more.

 

[sravna]

Sravana - Somehow up until 70s "Hinduism as a way of life" had survived. I remember while growing up that vacation meant going to a temple or a pilgrimage site or visiting relatives. Classical music or dance and cultural entertainment themes are based on Ramayana or some Puranas. The movies tended to reflect a value within the culture.

Today the western culture - mostly the bad aspects - is riding through the whole country completely truncated from the underlying traditions.
Not sure if Hinduism as it was known will survive this. People probably have less 'inner leisure' these days. Plus with so many in call center workers who pretend to be someone else with a different accent all day is going to have an effect on the whole society over time.

Unfortunately many people describe words like 'Maya' like Christians describe the Devil and its influence.

In the west people believe by and large that there is only one life. So when things begin to not work out in their mid life there is a possibility of a personal crisis.

Hindus still believe in a future birth and the stress may be less - I am only speculating and could be wrong.

Dear Shri TKS,

It is my view too that hindu philosophy of life could be the reason why we have not heard of mid life crisis in India. As you say, it could be wrong.

 

[tks]

Dear Shri TKS,

It is my view too that hindu philosophy of life could be the reason why we have not heard of mid life crisis in India. As you say, it could be wrong.

When someone has to work hard for a living, is around responsible people (unbroken family, friends) and is taught to respect everything around them (e.g., We have Ayudha pooja for example) then there is no room for crisis of the kind like midlife crisis.

Today with affluence comes too much leisure time. In India, in my limited observation, among upper middle class families people have too much leisure since labor is so cheap relatively speaking. That kind of living is a breeding ground for all kinds of mental ailments.

I once saw a show about a new syndrome that was prevalent among young entrepreneurs who had become rich very quickly during the dot com boom. It was called 'Sudden Wealth Syndrome - SWS' - people become restless, all aim in life lost and dont know what to do with all this money (and they are less than 30). The psychoanalysts made a killing - new syndrome and new opportunity to cure.

Hindus being poor predominantly do not have time for crisis of any kind like mid life crisis (and certainly not SWS).

 

[kunjuppu]

When someone has to work hard for a living, is around responsible people (unbroken family, friends) and is taught to respect everything around them (e.g., We have Ayudha pooja for example) then there is no room for crisis of the kind like midlife crisis.

Tks, query to you. I, for one, even in the midst of company, have felt alone, at times. is not loneliness, more a state of the mind, and not so much to do, with the presence of folks around us?

On the other hand, we can be alone, and still feel fulfilled. No?

I agree, in many an occasion, especially crisis times, the presence of others, ie loving others, is a source of comfort. but per se, can we say that the presence of others plus a respect to objects around us, will rid us of mid life crisis?

MLC is more, I think, a personal, situation, which a man (don’t know about women – they have a even bigger issue with menopause) feels, around 50s, more as a result of introspection of his past. Atleast, that is what I feel.

Today with affluence comes too much leisure time. In India, in my limited observation, among upper middle class families people have too much leisure since labor is so cheap relatively speaking. That kind of living is a breeding ground for all kinds of mental ailments.

Tks, I do not whether one needs a lot of time to experience MLC. To me it is not a function of ‘free time’ but more a function of one’s sensitivities and tendency to look inwards. Admittedly, there may be people who bypass the MLC stage, and there is nothing wrong (or right) in that.

like baldness or greying of hair, MLC is another of those things, that happens. All I can hope, is that it does not turn out to be a soul churning experience, to an extent, that it causes havoc to your near and dear. I know this has happened, where the man changed religions, went after saamiyars or (worse still) ran away with his secretary. All tambrams. All in Chennai.

I once saw a show about a new syndrome that was prevalent among young entrepreneurs who had become rich very quickly during the dot com boom. It was called 'Sudden Wealth Syndrome - SWS' - people become restless, all aim in life lost and dont know what to do with all this money (and they are less than 30). The psychoanalysts made a killing - new syndrome and new opportunity to cure.

Don’t know what this has to do with MLC. ‘nouveau riche’ have their own issues. Money is a blessing, but definitely not to the extent, it is praised to be. Still, if you are going to be miserable, better be rich and miserable. Poverty sucks.

Hindus being poor predominantly do not have time for crisis of any kind like mid life crisis (and certainly not SWS).

I think this generalization, like all generalizations, is flawed. India is a country of 1.2 b and let us say 48% are males, and 5% are in the MLC stage. That is 60 million folks, of which 45 million be hindus. None of these guys have MLC?

I agree, that in india, maybe it does not manifests itself so openly as in the west. Ours is a culture of secrets. We are more keen putting on a front – may have nothing to eat, but would boast of the ‘meal’ that we just had. So, many men, maybe do not openly confess to MLC? Is that possible?

 

[Yamaka]

Sir, I think, we too focus on worldly achievements. Our Indian kids today, do not have fun to grow up. They are inundated with tuition, music, [COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]dance[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR], sports etc all organized, and not in the nonchalant casual way that I grew up. Is this western? No. white kids in the west, take life easy and grow up at their own pace. Their society lets them do it,and their intrinsic prosperity affords it.

India, like china, has a small pie, to be divided into a lot of pieces. Should we blame the west for our exploding population – caused mainly by western initiated ideas like improvement in [COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]public [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]health[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR], immunization etc?

From post #11"...So sum, I think ‘midlife crisis’ as we understand it, ie unexplained change of behaviour in a man, in his 50s to 60s, is a universal man ‘thing’. And leave it at that.

Perhaps, if it could be possible, you could ask some70 year olds that you know, and live in india, whether they too experienced ‘mid life’ crisis. And hope for a frank answer. might be fun too" - Kunjuppu wrote.

Dear K:

I am very happy you wrote this here... because very many people in India believe "it's all coming from the West"!

I want to add one more issue here.

Many traditional Indians believe that the divorce rate is just about 5% in India, while it is about 50% in the West... therefore the West is rotting slowly and steadily! Alas, they forget

1. Most of the women in the West are well schooled and they hold their own jobs, bring a paycheck home every month, unlike in India, where even a girl working before marriage is asked to quit the jobs "to form a traditional family"!

2. Here women express their views fearlessly.. in many occasions this leads to " not reconcilable difference of opinions" on life and matters relating to the family. This leads to divorce, some very amicable and others not.

I know of two American couples who earn good living; they decided to go on "different paths", divorced in their early 50s, and still remain friends - they meet once or twice a year with their older kids to enjoy life together.. they seldom bad mouth about their former spouses. If anyone asks them why they divorced. Their answer is "Our perspectives changed, and we decided to go our own path, exploring life on our terms". Is this happening in India?

No, in most cases Indian family has not opened up.. it's rotting from the inside... women don't have free say on critical matters; invariably, the Man of the House takes the upper hand and her voices are shouted down.

The newer generation of educated young girls who bring a paycheck home, who demand their right place in the family will walk away from marriage if they change "their perspectives in life"; they will not put up with any crap in the name of family tradition.. This means the 5% divorce rate will not hold for too long.

Now, in large metropolitan centers like Delhi, Mumbai, B'lore and Chennai, the divorce rate is already inching up monthly.

Wait & watch.

Cheers.

 

[tks]

Tks, query to you. I, for one, even in the midst of company, have felt alone, at times. is not loneliness, more a state of the mind, and not so much to do, with the presence of folks around us?

On the other hand, we can be alone, and still feel fulfilled. No?

Feeling fulfilled has nothing to do with one being alone or with others from what I understand.

I agree, in many an occasion, especially crisis times, the presence of others, ie loving others, is a source of comfort. but per se, can we say that the presence of others plus a respect to objects around us, will rid us of mid life crisis?

MLC is more, I think, a personal, situation, which a man (don’t know about women – they have a even bigger issue with menopause) feels, around 50s, more as a result of introspection of his past. Atleast, that is what I feel.

MLC is a weakness arising out of insecurity in my understanding. Introspection with honesty is a positive trait in my view. MLC occurs when one feels they have not accomplished per own expectations and society's expectations. Those raised in biblical traditions, even if they call themselves Atheists still feel there is only one life and that adds to a pressure of losing it all if they have not fulfilled their key desires and dreams. My information is only based on talking to people I know, so it is not a scientific study. Introspection is likely to cure this problem, rather than create this problem, I think.

Tks, I do not whether one needs a lot of time to experience MLC. To me it is not a function of ‘free time’ but more a function of one’s sensitivities and tendency to look inwards. Admittedly, there may be people who bypass the MLC stage, and there is nothing wrong (or right) in that.

like baldness or greying of hair, MLC is another of those things, that happens. All I can hope, is that it does not turn out to be a soul churning experience, to an extent, that it causes havoc to your near and dear. I know this has happened, where the man changed religions, went after saamiyars or (worse still) ran away with his secretary. All tambrams. All in Chennai.

Based on my limited visit to Chennai, I am not sure I would want to live there. Of late, I have come into contact with a few too many duplicitous families and many narrow minded individuals. I am not generalizing at all when I say this. I can understand that upper middle class types are more likely to succumb to emotional issues including MLC. In my visits to villages in both northern and southern states I have come across more straightforward and likable people regardless of their social status.

If a person is sensitive and is able to look inwards that is a positive trait in my book. MLC is a problem arising out of negative emotions, being envious of others, being unfulfilled and generally feeling insecure about self. If someone is preoccupied with basic survival (usually those who are poor or middle class) they have limited time to have emotional problems of the kind that gives rise to MLC, in my view.

Don’t know what this has to do with MLC. ‘nouveau riche’ have their own issues. Money is a blessing, but definitely not to the extent, it is praised to be. Still, if you are going to be miserable, better be rich and miserable. Poverty sucks.

I mentioned about SWS (Sudden Wealth Syndrome) - such syndromes are diseases arising out of deep insecurity, sense of inadequacy and lack of clarity regarding purpose of life. MLC falls in the same category.

"Hindus being poor predominantly do not have time for crisis of any kind like mid life crisis (and certainly not SWS)."
Your response was: I think this generalization, like all generalizations, is flawed. India is a country of 1.2 b and let us say 48% are males, and 5% are in the MLC stage. That is 60 million folks, of which 45 million be hindus. None of these guys have MLC?

You are right - I cannot make a general statement. However, there are certain disorders that are born out of insecurity. The western world has specialized in leveraging human insecurity to open new markets around the world.

In USA, Hillary Clinton though she was 60+ cannot appear to be her age while campaigning. One of the right wing magazine published her real picture at the end of a long day when all her make up had smeared. I thought she looked mature and 60 years old. But in the campaign trail for most part she had to appear youthful to be accepted. The western world is lot more backward in expecting women to put up a show and appear young forever. That is cruel in my view. Many Indian women in villages, to the best I have known do not feel this insecurity and are accepted as they are.

The whole cosmetics industries and the lucrative fields of plastic surgery are sustained by making people feel insecure and unacceptable to themselves. I am yet to know of a Hindu women in India wanting to have breast implants or alter their body in a major manner.

When I came to USA in 1974, a fellow student on the day I landed told me to make sure I buy deodorant to put under my arm. I had no idea such a product existed and why! I thought I was clean with taking one to two showers a day

With constant messages of insecurity it is not surprising that people of the west with more time in their hand, worry a lot more about self image. Also if one believes one life is all there is, then the pressure to make the most out of life is also high.

In rural India this kind of insecurity has not caught on from what I have observed. So my conjuncture, not based on any scientific data, is that MLC is possible in places like Chennai where many 'ape the west' like Sravana says. But not across most of India , yet.

I agree, that in india, maybe it does not manifests itself so openly as in the west. Ours is a culture of secrets. We are more keen putting on a front – may have nothing to eat, but would boast of the ‘meal’ that we just had. So, many men, maybe do not openly confess to MLC? Is that possible?

Given my bias to places like Chennai, it is possible there but across India it is not probable in my view.

 

[kunjuppu]

thank you tks.

you have presented an amazingly different viewpoint re mid life crisis, and have, if i understand you correctly, cleanly interlinked it to culture, faith, profession (can i consider quick money making a profession?) and also place where one resides. a good combination of all these, might be factors, that might help one ward off mid life crisis.

i will have to give some thought to this. i have to confess till now, i considered MLC as a universal male 'thing', much equivalent to a 'male menopause', which spans caste, creed, nationality and continents.

i also believed that it may manifest in many ways, and here is where one's culture, place, profession etc. come into play.

i presume, you are in your late 50s or early 60s, and if i may intrude, are without any trace of MLC. i guess that would be the basis of your belief.

i always feel, there is more than one path to mount everest. or to put it simply, more than one way to skin the cat.

diversity flourishes