The Dravidian Origins of Hinduism

[Malayalakara]

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Ellavarkum Vanakkam.

Kindly read this important paper from the year 1990:

THE DRAVIDIAN CONTRIBUTION TO THE
DEVELOPMENT OF INDIAN CIVILIZATION

by ANDREE F. SJOBERG, University of Texas

It is available in google.

What you will learn is the truth about the Aryan-Dravidian divide.
This paper was a milestone for reinterpreting Indian and world history.

It should be clear now, that in the past certain Brahmins tried to plague India with fake history of mystical "great Aryan race", just to conform Western racial ideas and to become friends of their British landlords.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Malayalakara Ji

Thanks for the lead. I personally wouldn't go that far as to make any such gross inference
based just on Andreef F.Sjoberg's work - 'a milestone', maybe. That's about it.

Over time, many historians have worked on the subject and each has made valuable
contributions. The works of Sri T.R.Shesha Iyengar and Ms Romila Thapar too are brilliant
and eye-openers.

There still are too many questions un-answered such as the discovery of engravings in
Harappa & Mohenjedaro that bear similarities to the Tamil script and the Aborigines of
Australia communicating in a language that bears similarities to Tamil phonetics.

As you would already know, Harappa & Mohenjedaro, were part of the Indus Valley Civilisation
and were flourishing, prosperous metropolises. The Aryans then were still supposed to be
hunter-gatherers who moved to centuries later towards the Gangetic Plain from Asia Minor.

There have been many hypotheses in the past, but I am not aware of any conclusive theory
substantiated with solid evidence, this was or that.

Thanks for the lead to Andreef F Sjobergs's work.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[Malayalakara]

Dear Malayalakara Ji

Thanks for the lead. I personally wouldn't go that far as to make any such gross inference
based just on Andreef F.Sjoberg's work - 'a milestone', maybe. That's about it.

Over time, many historians have worked on the subject and each has made valuable
contributions. The works of Sri T.R.Shesha Iyengar and Ms Romila Thapar too are brilliant
and eye-openers.

There still are too many questions un-answered such as the discovery of engravings in
Harappa & Mohenjedaro that bear similarities to the Tamil script and the Aborigines of
Australia communicating in a language that bears similarities to Tamil phonetics.

As you would already know, Harappa & Mohenjedaro, were part of the Indus Valley Civilisation
and were flourishing, prosperous metropolises. The Aryans then were still supposed to be
hunter-gatherers who moved to centuries later towards the Gangetic Plain from Asia Minor.

There have been many hypotheses in the past, but I am not aware of any conclusive theory
substantiated with solid evidence, this was or that.

Thanks for the lead to Andreef F Sjobergs's work.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

Am pleased that you have read the paper and found it helpful. My intention by calling it a milestone was to show people, that Sjoberg was one of the first, who explicitly encouraged western universities to study Dravidians. I have found out, that in Germany there is a university, which dropped Sanskrit studies completely and instead started Tamil studies. The ignorance of racist western scholars towards Dravidians was broken.

 

[prasad1]

Aryan Invasion Theory, Vedas and Dravidian Discourse | The Chakra News
Conclusion: From this small attempt to put things in perspective, it is very easy to understand that the AIT/IAM (Aryan Invasion Theory), based on Rig Veda and the premier Tamil Sangam literary works is a farce. If anything, it is easy to see that this great land has been inhabited by people that belong to the same Vedic family. Differences based on linguistics, skin color, local culture, cuisines etc are being played up by vested interests today, as it were done 150 years ago. To repeat it, this land was inhabited by followers of the same Vedic Dharma until the early part of last millennium.

 

[Malayalakara]

Conclusion: From this small attempt to put things in perspective, it is very easy to understand that the AIT/IAM (Aryan Invasion Theory), based on Rig Veda and the premier Tamil Sangam literary works is a farce. If anything, it is easy to see that this great land has been inhabited by people that belong to the same Vedic family. Differences based on linguistics, skin color, local culture, cuisines etc are being played up by vested interests today, as it were done 150 years ago. To repeat it, this land was inhabited by followers of the same Vedic Dharma until the early part of last millennium.

I prefer well recognized academic works. I'm aware of Hindu nationalist circles, who propagate a unity between Indo-Europeans and Dravidians and that Indo-European Sanskrit is older than Dravidian Tamil, but nobody really takes notice of this theory in the academic world. It is now a common academic opinion, that the Dravidians civilized the incoming "barbarian" Indo-Aryan speakers, and that Indo-Aryan contribution to Hindu culture is "insignificant", primarily appearing in the form of the Sanskrit language.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Prasad Ji

I am not sure of the 'Aryan Invasion Theory'. But what has been established beyond doubt is that
the Indus Valley Civilisation [ between 2500 - 1500 BC ] was a civilised and sophisticated
civilisation. There is sufficient evidence of an advanced society, with a language [ read script ]
city building [ read engineering ] and trade links [ read economics ] through the port of Lohar
in present day Gujarat agriculture and animal husbandry. The 'script' found has innumerable similarities
to Tamil - not Devanagari or the Egyptian Hieroglyph or Cuneiform script of Mesopotamia.

During this period, the Aryans were known to still be in that stage of human development when
they were violent nomadic hunter-gatherers, who had not yet entered into the Indian sub-continent
through present day Afghanistan and NWFP. How and why the Indus Valley Civilisation just
vanished is a mystery - many theories propounded, and one such is the Aryan Invasion.

The original inhabitants of the land gave refuge to the new comers after a "Great Deluge".
- as I had mentioned earlier in this thread the works of Sri T.R. Shesha Iyengar and
Ms Romila Thapar can throw more light on the subject.

Giving allowances for sectarian biases, ethnic one up-manship, linguistic jingoism etc. the book
"The Lost Land of Lemuria" deals pretty much in depth on the subject.

Sorry Sir. The Chakra News referred to by you, by itself is nothing to form a " conclusion " by.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[prasad1]

Aryan Invasion — History or Politics? By Dr. N.S. Rajaram
By Dr. N.S. Rajaram

Aryans: race or culture?


The evidence of science now points to two basic conclusions: first, there was no Aryan invasion, and second, the Rigvedic people were already established in India no later than 4000 BCE. How are we then to account for the continued presence of the Aryan invasion version of history in history books and encyclopedias even today?


Some of the results - like Jha's decipherment of the Indus script - are relatively recent, and it is probably unrealistic to expect history books to reflect all the latest findings. But unfortunately, influential Indian historians and educators continue to resist all revisions and hold on to this racist creation - the Aryan invasion theory. Though there is now a tendency to treat the Aryan-Dravidian division as a linguistic phenomenon, its roots are decidedly racial and political, as we shall soon discover.


If Indologist do not dispute this mythe, who else will do it.

Is only a "vallkaran" can produce credible proof?

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/solid_evidence_debunking_aryan_invasion.htm

A number of participants in the Aryan invasion debate as relayed in the fall/winter 2002 issue of the Journal for Indo-European Studies have alluded to the role of political predilections in influencing and distorting the argument. In particular, Aryan invasion skepticism, presented there by Prof. Nikolas Kazanas, is painted by some of its critics as essentially a political ploy by Hindu nationalist (or "Hindutva") forces. In India, apolitical scholars known to have crossed over to this position, most notably archaeologist B.B. Lal, have been accused of political motives for doing so.

"The only inference that can be drawn from the anthropological and linguistic evidences... is that the Harappan population in the Indus Valley and Gujarat in 2000 BC was composed of two or more groups, the more dominant among them having very close ethnic affinities with the present day Indo-Aryan speaking population of India.
In other words there is no racial evidence of any such Indo-Aryan invasion of India but only of a continuity of the same group of people who traditionally considered themselves to be Aryans"


(The Myth of the Aryan Invasion of India, by David Fawley).

http://www.vedanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Dear Prasad Ji

I am not sure of the 'Aryan Invasion Theory'. But what has been established beyond doubt is that
the Indus Valley Civilisation [ between 2500 - 1500 BC ] was a civilised and sophisticated
civilisation. There is sufficient evidence of an advanced society, with a language [ read script ]
city building [ read engineering ] and trade links [ read economics ] through the port of Lohar
in present day Gujarat agriculture and animal husbandry. The 'script' found has innumerable similarities
to Tamil - not Devanagari or the Egyptian Hieroglyph or Cuneiform script of Mesopotamia.

During this period, the Aryans were known to still be in that stage of human development when
they were violent nomadic hunter-gatherers, who had not yet entered into the Indian sub-continent
through present day Afghanistan and NWFP. How and why the Indus Valley Civilisation just
vanished is a mystery - many theories propounded, and one such is the Aryan Invasion.

Dear AM, As you mentioned, there is on-going research on this area and new theories are propounded by the day! Please refer to this paper, when you get a chance - Origin of Indo-European languages and farming: Evidence from Human, Animal and plant DNAs and from linguistics

Recent archaeo-linguistic studies point out that the Indo-European languages originated at a place which had agriculture. Evidence further indicates that this place was no farther than the place of evolution of Austro-Asiatic languages and Dravidian languages, because words from these latter languages are found in the oldest core vocabulary of the Proto-Indo-European language. Coupled with this, recent archaeo-genetic studies of rice, barley, cow,pig, buffalo and mice prove their origin in India. This supports an Indian origin of farming,and subsequent spread to the east and west of India. These studies reject the theory of Aryan arrival to India from Central Asia (or West Asia), Dravidian arrival from the West Asiaand Austro-Asiatic arrival from the Southeast Asia (or China). Finally human DNA studies rule out any migration to India from Central Asia or West Asia. On the other hand there is DNA evidence of human migration from India to Central Asia, Europe, West Asia and Southeast Asia.

 

[prasad1]

Controversies in History: THE MYTH OF THE ARYAN INVASION OF INDIA

"In short, the compelling reasons for the Aryan invasion theory were neither literary nor archeological but political and religious - that is to say, not scholarship but prejudice. Such prejudice may not have been intentional but deep-seated political and religious views easily cloud and blur our thinking.


It is unfortunate that this this approach has not been questioned more, particularly by Hindus. Even though Indian Vedic scholars like Dayananda saraswati, Bal Gangadhar Tilak and Arobindo rejected it, most Hindus today passively accept it. They allow Western, generally Christian, scholars to interpret their history for them and quite naturally Hinduism is kept in a reduced role. Many Hindus still accept, read or even honor the translations of the 'Vedas' done by such Christian missionary scholars as Max Muller, Griffith, Monier- Williams and H. H. Wilson. Would modern Christians accept an interpretation of the Bible or Biblical history done by Hindus aimed
at converting them to Hinduism? Universities in India also use the Western history books and Western Vedic translations that propound such views that denigrate their own culture and country.
Tolerance is not in allowing a false view of one's own culture and religion to be propagated without question. That is merely self-betrayal."

New research debunks Aryan invasion theory - India - DNA
In what could be a major setback to Dravidian parties in Tamil Nadu, an inter-continental research in cellular molecular biology has debunked the Aryan invasion theory.


“We have conclusively proved that there never existed any Aryans or Dravidians in the Indian sub continent. The Aryan-Dravidian classification was nothing but a misinformation campaign carried out by people with vested interests,” Prof Lalji Singh, vice-chancellor, Banaras Hindu University, told DNA.


The findings of a three-year research by a team of scientists, including Prof Singh and others from various countries, has been published by American Journal of Human Genetics in its issue dated December 9.


“The study effectively puts to rest the argument that south Indians are Dravidians and were driven to the peninsula by Aryans who invaded North India,” said Prof Singh, a molecular biologist and former chief of Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad.

.......

“Africans came to India through Central Asia during 80,000 to 60,000 BCE and they moved to Europe sometime around 30,000 BCE. The Indian Vedic literature and the epics are all silent about the Aryan-Dravidian conflict,” said Dr S Kalyanaraman, a proponent of the Saraswathi civilization which developed along the banks of the now defunct River Saraswathi.

 

[prasad1]

Dear AM, As you mentioned, there is on-going research on this area and new theories are propounded by the day! Please refer to this paper, when you get a chance - Origin of Indo-European languages and farming: Evidence from Human, Animal and plant DNAs and from linguistics

Good post Mr. Bhiravan.

 

[Malayalakara]

I'm fascinated, when Brahmins say, there is no genetic difference among Indians or castes. It's pretty obvious to anyone. It's better to ignore such ridiculous political essays and go the professional scientists way. Satyameva Jayathe.

 

[prasad1]

I'm fascinated, when Brahmins say, there is no genetic difference among Indians or castes. It's pretty obvious to anyone. It's better to ignore such ridiculous political essays and go the professional scientists way. Satyameva Jayathe.

Sir,
You wrote

my background is Malayalee Christian, but I am not Anti-Hindu.

And here you are sowing the seed of hatred among Hindus. I think you are being ingenuous.
If you read about Caste and what Krishna said in Gita, you will not be perpetuating the Christian mythe, to divide Indian by birth based caste system.

 

[Malayalakara]

Sir,
You wrote


And here you are sowing the seed of hatred among Hindus. I think you are being ingenuous.
If you read about Caste and what Krishna said in Gita, you will not be perpetuating the Christian mythe, to divide Indian by birth based caste system.

It is the Brahmins who conspirated with the British "Aryan cousins" against all Indians particularly Dravidians and Dalits. Nobody in India will forget this, and rightly so. Don't drag innocent Indian Christians to this. We have been or converted in Kerala longer than many of your Brahmins arrived in Tamil Nadu. Again you have proven to be an insensible, ahistorical type of fake Hindu.

 

[prasad1]

It is the Brahmins who conspirated with the British "Aryan cousins" against all Indians particularly Dravidians and Dalits. Nobody in India will forget this, and rightly so. Don't drag innocent Indian Christians to this. We have been or converted in Kerala longer than many of your Brahmins arrived in Tamil Nadu. Again you have proven to be an insensible, ahistorical type of fake Hindu.

Anti-brahminism in a Brahmin site, is not a good idea.
You gave up the right to Hindu way of life when your forefathers converted to get special privileges.
Please do not lecture Us. I can see you are getting upset that Hindus might be uniting.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear All

I don't think this discussion is about Anti-Brahminism and Brahminism. We need to remain un-attached, un-biased
objective and scientific in approach.

To those who are not already aware, recent excavations at various locations in the Indus Valler Civilisation
[IVC] have discovered human skeletons scattered about in the cities, many holding hands and sprawling on the
streets as if some instant horrible doom had taken place. People lying un-buried on the streets of the city.

These skeletons are about the most radioactive ever found and on par with those in Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Sovies Researchers found a skeleton that had radioactive level over 50 times the normal - during the
Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Further, 1000s of lumps [ christened black stones ] have been found. These appear to be clay vessels
melted together in extreme heat.

The soil itself is suggestive of having suffered great shock, abrupt and intense heat - as indicated in the
basalt glass pherules. Huge masses of walls and foundations are found fused together. Such mass
destruction / annihilation, with the residual radiation levels can be caused only by a Nuclear Weapon.

Scientific study of the irradiated skeletons have resulted in the previously suggested time period
[of 2500 BC to 1500 BC] be grossly revised, and we now we are looking at a time period, something like
12,000 BC - 10,000 BC when the IVC flourished!

These evidences are found buried below thick layers of river sand - probably due to flooding. Early researchers
went until these layers, logged-in, and documented it as the history of the IVC.

The Lomar Crater - approx 450km north-east of Mumbai, which was till recently thought of to be caused by
a meteor, has now thrown up new, startling evidence. There is no suggestion of meteorite activity here,
however here too the soil seems to have undergone shock, abrupt and intense heat - something typical
of Nuclear test sites. Radiation studies more-or-less conform to the IVC time period.

Whether such mass scale destruction in the IVC occurred due an 'attack' from outside or due to their
own flawed nuclear research going wrong is a mystery.

This now throws to the winds the Aryan Invasion Theory. The Aryans in this period were at best cavemen
clubbing each-other in battle.

Yay Yem

 

[vgane]

It is the Brahmins who conspirated with the British "Aryan cousins" against all Indians particularly Dravidians and Dalits. Nobody in India will forget this, and rightly so. Don't drag innocent Indian Christians to this. We have been or converted in Kerala longer than many of your Brahmins arrived in Tamil Nadu. Again you have proven to be an insensible, ahistorical type of fake Hindu.

But the fact of matter is your forefathers in Kerala are the Namboodiri brahmins who got converted at Kothamangalam,Muvattupuzha etc by Saint Thomas...Do not try to divide the Hindus...You guys sowed the seeds of division by collaborating with the British against the Hindus