the importance of lord indra

[shango]

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i have a question how comes indra was so important in the vedas and now is a minor god? does any group in india worship him?

 

[happyhindu]

Indra, who occupied a prime place in the vedic times, seems to have become a minor diety in the puranic times. Perhaps there was a shift in social thinking. Since indra was associated with sacrifices and sacrifices became less important in the puranic times, perhaps that in a way was linked to the scenario of Indra becoming a minor diety over time.

This is an interesting piece: Indian Myth and Legend: Chapter I. Indra, King of the Gods

Worship of Indra in the south: Indra Vizha, Festival of Sangam Age

 

[DURGADASAN]

Indra is supreme power of devas. He is an important god for rain and thunder. We all worship Indra during "Bhogi" festival. It refers Indra, who is actually the bhogi. But he is neither a minor deity nor a major too. Lord Krishna conquer his ahamkara and stopped indrapuja and instead, he started "Govarthana giri pooja". Indra is a symbol of "RAJAS or RAJO GUNA". Hence, he never paid proper salutations to sages and underestimates all. He has lot of lust also according to our myth. Then, for the good of devas, the thrimurthis or ambal will help indra to get rid from his problem. So, it is very clear even indra is dependent on some major gods.
Note: In madurai, there is a place called Anaimalai . A small hilly area. if a person do penance there for 41 days without eating anything, Indra will appear before him. It's a myth.

The gods of vedic times have been totally changed except few. Brihaspathi, Indra, Maruth, similar devathas doesn't have any worship nowadays. But we are still following vedic hymns and praise them. The supreme power is certainly not the Indra and so, the worship for him has been declined accordingly from age to age.

 

[akura]

In praise of Indra ......Rig Veda ..Please browse the following

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 3: HYMN XXXVII. Indra.

 

[pbkhema]

The devas headed by Indra was the foremost in Vedic times.Then in between the present status Brahmma as Prajapati became the supreme god.Later when the vedic people started moving eastwards and wetwards the puranic gods came into being.Maha Vishnu and Siva supplanting the vedic gods and later Brahmma too.
In later puransa, devi mahatmyam etc the devas led by indra have become powerless and led by Brhamma they seek the assistance of Vishnu Siva and Devi

 

[kganesa]

i have a question how comes indra was so important in the vedas and now is a minor god? does any group in india worship him?

He is the Head of all Indira Loga. He is the god for giving rain in the earth. in early periods all people are worship indira for rain. now also this type functions done in coimbatore side villages.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Whether importance should be given to indra???

I consider him as covart, jealous, lustful, joyous, selfish, egoish, irresponsible head who always needed wine and girls for bhoga. He independently doesn't have any power. He has the vajrayudha, given by thatheesi rishi, who sacrificed his life for welfare of devas. He has Airavatham and kalpakavrukhsham, which came by the united help of asuras, devas, snakes, and also mahavishnu. We cannot omit the help of parameswara also in this incident. He has the shakti of thunder, which is of no use to human society (For rain, the deva is varuna). He sometimes even lost his power to safeguard his own consort, indrani. And sometimes, even himself.

Whether such a god needs any kinda worship??? Hence, shri krishna stopped this indrapooja in brindavan too.

Pranams

 

[pannvalan]

Indra is the Lord of the senses. If one has kept his senses under his control, he is said to have conquered Indra.

 

[DURGADASAN]

The lord of senses himself does not have a control over senses and behaves totally nonsense and irritates his own guru. Good joke Pannvalan sir. Thanks for bringing me this new thing that indra is the lord of senses. Might be the position of indra has been kept for just enjoyment by the creator.

 

[pannvalan]

I do not visualise Indra as a separate person/devatha. He symbolically represents the
control or better still management of one's senses, mind and brain.

If we fail in this management and control, great humiliation and loss of reputation await us.

 

[Raghy]

I do not visualise Indra as a separate person/devatha. He symbolically represents the
control or better still management of one's senses, mind and brain.

If we fail in this management and control, great humiliation and loss of reputation await us.

Interesting topic. I thought 'Indra' was a position, not a person as such. Mahabali competed for that postion; I think, even Ravana competed at a different time.

I fully agree with the need for managing/controlling senses, mind and brain.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Yes I do agree with you sir, so only am asking if there is no such devatha, why there is a need of worship???

A person who lost his reputation needs only disgusting remarks and not a worship suppose to be...

If we consider, Indra as a position and not a person, it wont be fair. How you then consider Indrani. Her shakti is 'Aindri'. Is she too a position? But, myths are like that. Nagushan once became Indran and he needs indrani as his consort, which was stopped at proper time by agasthya. So, it is clear there is a person by Indra and might be the post is also indra. If the above statement can be consider, Indra's wife will become indrani automatically, I mean nagushan has himself consider his own wife as indrani. But, that does not happen. From this, Indra is a post and indran is a devatha having it. Both are correct.

The argument now is whether he needs any particular sort of worship???

Pranams

 

[vikrama]

Sri Aurobindo says that Indra represents the divine mind in each of us. I wish Sri Durgadasan studies the vedas without being shadowed by puranas and lets us all know his findings.

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Vikrama ji said it well.

A small addition:
Since the sense organs or indriyas are controlled by the mind, the desired goal is control of the senses, while succumbing to the wants of our indriyas is the undesirable side. It is usually better to seperate puranas from vedas esp when it comes to metaphorical explanations...

 

[DURGADASAN]

Does you people mean that puranic indra and vedic indra are two?? My query is if indra is a deva, whether he needs worship or not? Am not arguing whether indra is mind or indra is indriya or indra is power. What I actually need now is the metaphorical explanation only sirs. If these two are different, can you say always puranas contradict vedas?? Which we has to follow, vedas or puranas?? How can we part vedas and puranas? Does vedas have no puranic stories inside them? I mean by the hymns are they not conveying any stories???

I think the hymns on indra came out, just because he is the lord of devas. Might be a "MUGASTHUTHI" to pacify the king, though he is inefficient as we see in today's ministry... Please don't think that Iam against Indra or vedas. Iam asking out of curiosity whether the worship is needed or not? thats all.

There are many puranic stories related to indra, but none has described him as an hero. Whether all these puranas purposefully wanted to contradict a vedic hero?? Iam totally unaware of vedas and I dont even know the hymns that are in praise of indra. Since the topic turn towards the worship of indra, am asking these...

Pranams

 

[happyhindu]

Some answers:

Does you people mean that puranic indra and vedic indra are two??

Some quarters consider them the same. Some consider them are different. There were different Indras at different points of time. Some info on 14 Indras: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra

My query is if indra is a deva, whether he needs worship or not?

Vedic worship includes worship to Indra. Indra is considered a demon in the Zoarashtrian religion. Possibly the Yadu hordes of Krishna caused the cesation of Indra worship in India for a time period.

Am not arguing whether indra is mind or indra is indriya or indra is power. What I actually need now is the metaphorical explanation only sirs. If these two are different, can you say always puranas contradict vedas?? Which we has to follow, vedas or puranas?? How can we part vedas and puranas? Does vedas have no puranic stories inside them? I mean by the hymns are they not conveying any stories???

Not sure if the hymns might be conveying some story. Rigvedic hyms are mixed in nature, sometimes addressed to God, to Nature, to a nameless superpower and so on.

I think the hymns on indra came out, just because he is the lord of devas. Might be a "MUGASTHUTHI" to pacify the king, though he is inefficient as we see in today's ministry... Please don't think that Iam against Indra or vedas. Iam asking out of curiosity whether the worship is needed or not? thats all.

There are many puranic stories related to indra, but none has described him as an hero. Whether all these puranas purposefully wanted to contradict a vedic hero?? Iam totally unaware of vedas and I dont even know the hymns that are in praise of indra. Since the topic turn towards the worship of indra, am asking these...

Pranams

 

[DURGADASAN]

happy hindu ji

Really a big thanks... Somehow Iam bit clear now.

Pranams

 

[vikrama]

Hinduism of today is a product of evolution for thousands of years. It has undergone many many changes. Many deities were given up, new ones have come to be added. Perhaps this is the only religion where such changes have been permitted. பழையன கழிதலும் புதியன புகுதலும் வழுவல கால வகையினானே
Do you know that Vedic samhitas do not contain a deity called Siva. The hymn rudram, which is a very special prayer for Siva today is a praise for Rudra, who has more differences from Siva than similarities. Narayana gets first mention only in the Brahmanas and not in the earlier Samhitas. In our own times we have seen the images of Ayyappa getting recognition in Siva temples, just in a mater of 50 years. In a thousand years hence, a totally different set of deities will be worshipped and the present deities may meet the fate of Indra.
Hence, no use asking whether Indra should be worshipped or not. There exists one, scholars call it differently.एकं सत् विप्रा बहुधा वदन्ति Rik 1.164.46

 

[pbkhema]

Both the vedic and puranic Indras are one and the same,In vedic times he was the king od the denas.Then he became the supreme controller of the whether being the controller of Vayu Varuns etc.
During the course of the Puranic evolution he was given less importance and he and the other devas were made to seek the help of the post Vedic era Gods, Siva, Vishnu etc
His loss of importance (if I may so call it ) is due to evolution of the religion

 

[happyhindu]

Shri PBKHema,

Its an interesting thing you have written. If you have inferred this from some sources, please could you share them?

Also, there is this debate that

a) Shiva was pre-vedic and Vishnu was Vedic
b) Both Shiva and Vishnu were Vedic
c) Shiva was Vedic and Vishnu was Puranic

But you have mentioned both Shiva and Vishnu as post-vedic dieties. Is there any reason for it?

Also, is it possible that the same Indra lived from the vedic period of even as recent as 700 BC all the way to the puranic period of 300 to about 1500AD ?

Regards.

 

[pbkhema]

Shri PBKHema,

Its an interesting thing you have written. If you have inferred this from some sources, please could you share them?

Also, there is this debate that

a) Shiva was pre-vedic and Vishnu was Vedic
b) Both Shiva and Vishnu were Vedic
c) Shiva was Vedic and Vishnu was Puranic

But you have mentioned both Shiva and Vishnu as post-vedic dieties. Is there any reason for it?

Also, is it possible that the same Indra lived from the vedic period of even as recent as 700 BC all the way to the puranic period of 300 to about 1500AD ?

Regards.

THE FACT ABOUT INDRA i HAVE GATHERED FROM READING SEVERAL BOOKS ON HINDU mYTHOLOGY, THE PURANAS AND SEEING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE CULTURE IN A RATIONAL MANNER
Siva was definetely not a Vedic God.THe Rudras were there in the Vedic times and it evolved into Siva.
I feel that prioe to the vedic people there must have been some kind of phalic (linga worship) worship.This was nit liked by the Vedic people.In fact (I do not recollect correctly now who) Indra or one of the Vedic Devas were reerred to as sisira nasyahah meaning destroyer of lingas
The Dhasha Yanja episode itself is to bring Siva into the Vedic fold and give himea shre of the Havir
Vishnu as now we know was not in the Vedas.There is an indirect reference to the Vamana Avataram by the saying he measured the three worlds with his foot steps

 

[happyhindu]

Thankyou for the info Shri Pbkhema ji.

I too came across info of the destruction of Lingas a very long time back but cannot recollect it was mentioned in which veda or purana.

Possibly there was a section that followed idol worship with abhisekham for lingas and statues; and there was another section that followed the non-idol worship system of havans. Both these sections probably clashed and eventually merged later. So Rudra became merged with Shiva.

But i think Vishnu is mentioned in the vedas, albeit as a minor diety. Let me check.

 

[pannvalan]

I remember to have read that initially, in vedas, the word 'pasupathi' and 'rudra' were used at many times. Only later, Vishnu joined his friend Shiva. This point requires deeper study to pinpoint the exact period.

 

[anandb]

THE FACT ABOUT INDRA i HAVE GATHERED FROM READING SEVERAL BOOKS ON HINDU mYTHOLOGY, THE PURANAS AND SEEING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE CULTURE IN A RATIONAL MANNER
Siva was definetely not a Vedic God.THe Rudras were there in the Vedic times and it evolved into Siva.
I feel that prioe to the vedic people there must have been some kind of phalic (linga worship) worship.This was nit liked by the Vedic people.In fact (I do not recollect correctly now who) Indra or one of the Vedic Devas were reerred to as sisira nasyahah meaning destroyer of lingas
The Dhasha Yanja episode itself is to bring Siva into the Vedic fold and give himea shre of the Havir
Vishnu as now we know was not in the Vedas.There is an indirect reference to the Vamana Avataram by the saying he measured the three worlds with his foot steps

I don't think Rudra evolving into Shiva is true. In our tradition, every deity has two aspects - fierce and calm. While Rudra is the fierce aspect, Shiva is the calmer one. From the Krishna-Yajurveda, you chant the Sri Rudram to calm the fierce Rudra. After Rudra is calmed, you chant the Chamakam to appeal to Shiva and ask for boons.

Sri Periavaal says the very investigation into who precedes what and the origin of Vedas into Vedic, pre-vedic and all is a fruitless exercise as the Vedas are "anadi" and "apauresheya". It may all do good to satisfy our scientific temper but should not take precedence over the value that we may gain from the Vedas itself.

 

[pannvalan]

Maha Periyavaal's words are final.