The Pandavas of Mahabharats ware not Ksatriyas

[prasad1]

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The underlying thought of almost every warrior participating in the war was that they are Kshatriya. At least for majority of them or you can say the central figures--the Pandavas and the Kauravas. But were they really Kshatriyas? It's this point that we are going to discuss here.

Dhritrashtra and Pandu:
They both were sons of Veda Vyasa and the queens Ambika and Ambalika. They were Brahmins from father's side.

Kauravas and Pandavas:
Kauravas would be Brahmins if patriarchal system is considered. Then there is the inconvenient truth about carrying 100 sons for one mother.
Pandavas were sons of gods, not mortals altogether, if father's side is considered.

Bheeshma:
He was a Kshatriya from father's side and goddess-son from mother's side. Though we know that both his parents were cursed from heaven so actually he was a Kshatriya according to the worldly norms.
The main characters of the war were not Kshatriyas if we consider their birth.

The point is that the fundamental belief of Kaurvas and Pandavas that they are Kshatriyas is questionable. Actually, they were Brahmins or we have to change the system we adopt while marking the clan of any child.

So was Krishna wrong when he says
Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 2.31


sva-dharmam api cāvekṣya
na vikampitum arhasi
dharmyād dhi yuddhāc chreyo 'nyat
kṣatriyasya na vidyate.

Even if you consider your own duty, you should not hesitate because there is nothing better for a Kshatriya than a righteous war. (Bhagavad Gita 2.31)


Happy are the Kshatriyas, O Arjuna, who are called upon to fight in such a battle that comes of itself as an open door to heaven! (2.32)

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prasad Sir,

In Rajaji's 'Vyaasar virundhu', the Tamil version of Mahabharat, there is NO mention about the real father of Dhritrashtra and Pandu!

 

[renuka]

Dear Prasad ji,

I think I did mention some time ago in Forum about the caste breakdown of the Kauravas and Pandavas that technically no one was a full blooded Kshatriya.

Ok lets start with Veda Vyasa..Brahmin Father..Shudra Mother..

Then he proxy fathers Pandu,Dhritarasthra and Vidura .


So that makes Pandu and Dhrists 25% Brahmin,25% Shudra and 50% Kshatriya.

Vidura is 25% Brahmin and 75% Shudra.


Ok now the Kauravas..their mum is Kshatriya..

So that makes the Kauravas 12.5% Brahmin,12.5% Shudra and 75% Kshatriya.

OK now Pandavas..they were Demi Gods..half Deva and Half Human..so I wonder how much of the Varna system actually applies to them...technically 50% Kshatriya and 50% Deva.


So?? Who is a Kshatriya??

Why were they considered Kshatriyas even though any Varna admixture even of the Anuloma kind has its own classification but yet all of them got classified as Kshatriyas.

So was the Varna system as rigid as we thought it was? Was there any other criteria like occupation based ..in this case all of them were royals and hence considered Kshatriyas based on their royal heritage or no one dared mess with the royals?

And this also questions the credibility of Gunas predominance of a particular Varna cos the Kauravas had Brahmin blood but the Pandavas did not have Brahmin blood and the "trouble" seemed to be caused by the Kauravas more in comparison with the Pandavas...So how did so called Sattva nature of Brahmin blood did not display Sattva Guna?

Is Sattva Guna of the "Vaagmi Gene"(LOL) a recessive one that it failed to show up in the Kauravas?

I dont like to use the word Guna Varna cos I personally feel the Varna system was always birth based to a great extent as it seems here that the occupation and position in society as royals made them all be classified as Kshatriyas even though genetically they were the classical example of a Varna Sankar Scandal!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

We know the parentage of Dhritrashtra, Pandu and their children only because Vyasa explains in his story! May be the citizens

knew them as the descendants of Shantanu, a Kuru king of Hastinapura and the varNa of the father was only considered!

Those days people were MCPs!! :lol:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

We know the parentage of Dhritrashtra, Pandu and their children only because Vyasa explains in his story! May be the citizens

knew them as the descendants of Shantanu, a Kuru king of Hastinapura and the varNa of the father was only considered!

Those days people were MCPs!! :lol:

YES! YES! YES! Cos no one knew the Scandal!LOL

Just one correction to your post..Even these days people are MCPs..its just that their Modus Operandi has changed!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,
But...... there exist some modern girls who can subdue the MCPs!! :moony:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,
But...... there exist some modern girls who can subdue the MCPs!! :moony:

Dear RR ji,

MCPs can never be subdued..they can only be sedated!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

Renukaji in post #3:

I personally feel the Varna system was always birth based to a great extent as it seems here that the occupation and position in society as royals made them all be classified as Kshatriyas even though genetically they were the classical example of a Varna Sankar Scandal!

Realization of the "Vaagmi truth" after deep meditation? LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear RR ji,

MCPs can never be subdued..they can only be sedated!LOL

Every family is a long story of MCP Vs FCS dual? LOL.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Prasad ji,

I dont like to use the word Guna Varna cos I personally feel the Varna system was always birth based to a great extent as it seems here that the occupation and position in society as royals made them all be classified as Kshatriyas even though genetically they were the classical example of a Varna Sankar Scandal!

What is Varna Sankar Scandal? Can u please explain?

 

[renuka]

What is Varna Sankar Scandal? Can u please explain?

Chandru ji,

Varna Sankar is the most loved word by those who want to hold on tight to lineage purity.

In fact most people do not remember most verses of the Bhagavad Geeta or remember what Lord Krishna said but somehow they only remember the 1st Chapter of Bhagavad Geeta Stanza 40,41 and 42 where Arjuna laments about ill effects of destruction of dynasty which might lead to the destruction of family lineage where there is intermingling of castes which produce unwanted progeny after the females have been rendered impure.

Now intermingling of castes which produce cross breeds are called Varna Sankar.

It's a famous stanza in Geeta my dear..to which Lord Krishna does not say anything to Arjuna with regards to that and starts off His reply to Arjuna by saying KASMALAM! (really! no joke..)

Lord Krishna says :

Kutas Tva Kasmalam Idam
Visame etc etc...

Now coming to the scandal meaning here.

You see you know what happened in Mahabharat isnt it..I had given the caste break down in my post No 3..so the "scandal" is in Mega serial proportions of the Varna kind.

Imagine a Kaurava is actually 12.5% Brahmin,12.5% Shudra and 75% Kshatriya!LOL

BTW Chandru ji...I am surprised why you chose to ask me the Varna Sankar Scandal in my post instead of the Vaagmi gene?

 

[renuka]

Renukaji in post #3:



Realization of the "Vaagmi truth" after deep meditation? LOL.

Vaagmi ji,

I have always believed that the Varna system is birth based.You can check any of my old post.I am never in support of any Guna Varna theory.

 

[prasad1]

The OP is also based on the Birth based and Patriarchal system of Caste.
Renukaji is diluting it by including the Caste of mother. In the Patriarchal system mother's caste or Gothram does not figure at all.

 

[renuka]

The OP is also based on the Birth based and Patriarchal system of Caste.
Renukaji is diluting it by including the Caste of mother. In the Patriarchal system mother's caste or Gothram does not figure at all.

Dear Prasad ji,

In that case why the question "Why are they Kshatriyas"?

All I can think of is since Vyasa was a proxy father so its as if he is not "lending' his Gotra and for all practical purposes they are sons of Kshatriya kings and also the Devas who fathered the Pandavas were also proxy fathers and hence they were sons of Pandu and technically Kshatriyas.

So then why the OP? What is the debate then?

But what makes you wonder..if Vyasa was acting on behalf of a Kshatriya King to father kids..then Vidura too would be considered a Kshatriya isnt it?

But he was considered a Shudra..why??? So do you really think mothers caste did not matter?

 

[prasad1]

The DNA is part of lineage. the gothram and Caste is directly linked to the fathers (Actual).
I personally do not believe that individual's behavior is based on his birth alone. So birth based caste system is obsolete. But going by the Hindu traditions prevalent at that time, most of the characters were of dubious Caste at best. They were not pure born kshatriays.

 

[renuka]

The DNA is part of lineage. the gothram and Caste is directly linked to the fathers (Actual).
I personally do not believe that individual's behavior is based on his birth alone. So birth based caste system is obsolete. But going by the Hindu traditions prevalent at that time, most of the characters were of dubious Caste at best. They were not pure born kshatriays.

Dear Prasad ji,

Is anyone pure for that matter?

Men of the past could have just married the females of a region and took on their mother's language and father's Gotra and lo behold we have all sorts of people today.

So I feel its really no big deal who is which Varna.

Since Pandavas and Kauravas lived like Royals/Kings..hence for all practical purposes they can be considered Kshatriyas ..even if you want to go by Guna Varna(which I do not believe in)..they still behaved very much like Kshatriyas.