True enemies of brahmins

[goundamani]

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Who are the true enemies of brahmins?

some brahmins themselves are real enemies of rest of brahmins.I prefer to call these enemies as Hindu mullahs.

Such elements constitute around 3 to 4% of brahmin population. Number of OBC mullahs and FC mullahs too will be similiar.(In my opinion). They bring disrepute and disgrace to the rest of brahmins, rest of hindu castes and entire hindu religion and India itself.

In my opinion such elements dont even qualify to be called as humans.These Hindu mullahs will say the follows

1. They will openly proclaim that brahmins are superior to rest of 3 varnas

2.will openly propogate varnashrama system
3.will call tamil as inferior to sanskrit
4.will say that people who did punya in previous birth are born as brahmins and sinners are born in other 3 varnas
5.will dream of bringing back old varnashrama
6.will openly propogate that people should go back to caste based jobs.
7.Will say that sathi and child marriage should be bought back
8.Will say that eating together with non-brahmins is "theettu"
9.will oppose intercaste marriages, love mariages and women going to work.

Hindu mullahs can be found in all hindu castes.Devar mullahs prevent dalits from pulling temple charriot in kandadevi.Vanniyar mullahs prevent dalits from going in procession in their streets even when they carry dead bodies.

Such enemies should be outcasted immediatly.They should be declared as racists and enemies of humanity and should be packed off to arabia. I would even encourage them to convert into christians or muslims where conservatism is welcomed. Please go and spoil those religions. Dont spoil my religion.

 

[tri_vikrama]

speechless

r u by any chance, were Ramanujacharya or Gandhiji or Annamayya in your previous birth.

Did u really meant it, I mean what u have written.

Anyway few other points that u might have left out:

Dowry
Priesthood
Slavery

I would like to be ur shisya, perhaps not, as I don't want to be a Senthil.

r u belongs to kaundinya gothram? no offence please

By the way I am probably 10% Hindu Mullah

 

[goundamani]

I dont need any sishyas or gurus.I need friends who can uplift the down trodden and build a new India.

BTW,Anybody can become Ramanujacharya or annamacharya.If they really want to become one, there is no reason as of why they cannot become one.

Do you seriously want to become one?

 

[maruti]

Sorry for the belated response, but I just joined and couldn't resist replying.ray:

2.will openly propogate varnashrama system
3.will call tamil as inferior to sanskrit

Which is correct. VD is part of Hinduism, and Samskrita is a divine language without equals.

7.Will say that sathi and child marriage should be bought back
8.Will say that eating together with non-brahmins is "theettu"
9.will oppose intercaste marriages, love mariages and women going to work.

Never heard anyone saying this.

Bottom line, we cannot change Hinduism, just because westerners (read christians) have defamed it. Today, they attack VD and you give it up. Tomorrow, they may attack Lord Krishna (they've already started doing this by calling Him a perv), will you give Him up, in order to fit into the western framework?

 

[hariharan1972]

With friends like these, who needs enemies ?


I want to share my perspective on how some times some brahmins are such poor advertisement for the community.

Last Friday, i had been to Tirupathi with another brahmin friend of mine, who is an Iyengar. We walked our way up & hit the 'Q' for the "Jeer Seva" or "Saathu marai" as it is well known. For those who don't know it, this is a seva where the "Iyengar Brahmins" who are present at the time of "Jeer's visit" to the temple are allowed direct entry along with the Jeer's entourge. This is not an official seva but short circuits the "Q" just like any other seva & it is free. Only conditions are the person should be a brahmin, wear the namam prominently, wear veshti/angavastaram & shave his side-locks & remove hair couple of inches above the ears.

Now when we hit the "Q" at 5.30 am on Saturday, there were about 40 persons ahead of us.

Just after us in the line were 4 iyengar brahins - 3 were in high 50s & one about 30+. What followed was such poor adverstisement to Brahmins & Brahmanism to say the least.

a) There was utter lack of discipline in forming the "Q".

b) While the original "Q" was like follows,

<Entrance>
-----------------
|
|
|
|

there was a section of the people who were trying to hang around the entrace & gain a direct entry avoiding the "Q" like below

<Entrance>
-----------------

| |
| |
| | (Persons trying direct entrance)
| |
| |

c) With the clear intention of avoiding the "Q" a fairly big section of people were hanging around the entrance awaiting "Jeer's" arrival.

d) Initially a senior person (who appeared to be a localite) tried to reason with them as to the need for maintaining the "Q" for trouble free darshan.

e) He made a valid point that while 50,000 pilgrims waited in "Q" for over 4 years, we were not ready to maintain a "Q" discipline for just the 100 of us.

f) He also added that while the 50,000 pilgrims got about couple of seconds to have a darshan of the lord that too from far, we who have the benefit of the jeer sevai could have the darshan of the lord from as near as 5 feet for over 10 minutes. Also we have the fortune of getting ‘theertham & sadari’ & hence it was in our interest that we avoided any trouble by maintaining discipline.

g) Just after this, the “mama’s” in the “Q” started making sarcastic remarks about the gentleman. The irritating part was that the initiators were the “elderly” gentlemen with the youngster making an occasional point. It was a clear case of “not wanting to assume a leadership role & whoever did it be damned”

h) 20 or so minutes rolled & people were getting impatient about the Jeer’s non arrival. Again the “leader mama” (I didn’t know any names) made a revisit to our part of the “Q” & repeated that we should be patient & realize the “bhagyam” we were in for in relation to the 50,000 daily pilgrims. Again this invited ‘sneering comments’ from the same group.

i) As more time went by, the mama group almost resembled a 2nd year medical college group & was solidly ragging any person who went by the side.

j) The “‘Q’ disrespecting group” got a little bigger & I was fearing the worst that it will result in canceling the darshan.

k) Just then a “Saviour mama” came to the forefront & started blasting the ‘disrespecters’ pulling them up for not having the patience & discipline even among a small group of 100 persons. He repeatedly shouted “we should be ashamed”, atleast about 10-15 times.

l) With lot of reluctance the ‘disrespecters’ stopped their “Parallel Queuing” & joined the regular line.

m) Ofcourse the “Saviour Mama” didn’t escape criticism & sneers by the “Q Mama’s group”

n) His Holiness “Jeer” we learnt was visiting some other place & hence the “Saathu marai” was getting delayed. This information was carried by the “leader mama” when he came for the 3rd time to our part of the “Q”. However my respect for the “leader mama” diminished considerably when he started poking fun at the Jeer saying that he had gone to the “other place” (I don’t know which but some place where Tiruppavai recital was organized that morning) since they serve “very good pongal”.

o) The ‘Q Mama’s group’ which was criticizing the “leader mama” until now, joined the chorus in poking fun at the Jeer. Wow, yenna ottrumai I thought.

p) His holiness Jeer arrived & we entered the temple & were in the sanctum sanctorum in 5 minutes. What followed was worse.

q) Since I was in the first 25 persons in the “Q”, I could go as near as 5-8 ft to the Idol of Sri Venkateswara.

r) The persons ahead of the “Q” did a complete blockade & started reciting from Tiruppavai or some such thing. (Since I am not an iyengar, I cannot exactly tell what it was).

s) I had such wonderful darshan of the lord that I didn’t mind dropping dead the next minute. After worshipping the lord to my heart’s content, I wished to turn back to give opportunity to those behind in the “Q” but I couldn’t turn an inch either back or front.

t) The “mama’s gumball” who were ahead were blocking view completely. I was on the “vayirpadi” & hence had a “headsup advantage” vis-à-vis others.

u) The blockade was so complete that even the “Gurukkals” couldn’t move around. After 5-8 mins of jostling which practically resulted in no one moving from his position (thankfully no mami’s are part of this sevai), a feeble attempt to restore order was made by bringing a rope in the middle to remove the “blockade”.

v) This also failed since the “blockaders” were unrelenting. This only ensured that the persons in the back were unable to move front.

w) After all attempts to restore order was foiled successfully, the screen was drawn & the darshan came to an abrupt end. Only 20% of the persons in the “Q” had darshan while other 80% couldn’t catch a glimpse of the lord.

x) After that we proceeded to get theertham, sadari, prasadam & came out of the temple after worshipping “Ramanujar”

y) The persons who were behind us in the “Q” were sorely disappointed & kept complaining about the “unruly & selfish” behaviour of the persons who were ahead in the “Q”.

z) I couldn’t agree more & came to the conclusion that unless we develop the mentality of “live & let live” among the community, we are in deep trouble.

aa) While I had a great darshan, I felt deeply depressed & disappointed about the behaviour of some members of the community.

 

[Shanti Brahm]

Misconceptions Cause Bigotry

Wow! I had a good laugh. Are you sure you are a brahmin ? Because you dont know too much about brahmins, everything you say is just stereotype

Such elements constitute around 3 to 4% of brahmin population.

And I imagine a very vocal population at that who must be publishing and declaring and shouting like all those mullahs and evangelical christians. Whewre have you seen this?

1. They will openly proclaim that brahmins are superior to rest of 3 varnas

Brahmins can't claim this because they don't believe it themselves. What traditional brahmins believe is that they hold the spiritual tradition but not in books, they hold the spiritual tradition in their bodies (more accurately, in their souls.) That is why so much rules on cleanliness. Not because they thought they were superior. But to keep the energy they were carrying to be pure.

The mantras are not the magic. The mantras are only the vehicles to the energy which uses the mantra as a means. Just as there is an ocean, the waves are not the water. Water is just a vehicle.

2.will openly propogate varnashrama system

Tradition has it that the energy stream was first carried by some Rishi. There are between 7 and 12 Rishis who brought in divine energy which they kept alive in verses called vedas. They passed this energy down their genetic code and through initiation of bodies within a genetic ray for the benefit of all mankind. The Gotras are the rays of theses rishis.

I personally see the varnashrama system as outdated and should be thown out. Yet, I believe it is the responsiblity of every brahmin of every particular gotra to keep the energy of his Gotra alive which means doing Sandhyavandanam at minimun but also learning his family lineage version of the veda.

3.will call tamil as inferior to sanskrit

I doubt any south Indian brahmin ever would say or even think that. How bizarre! All I can say is, ancient Sanskrt is a language of the veda that brahmins are supposed to memorise.

4.will say that people who did punya in previous birth are born as brahmins and sinners are born in other 3 varnas

Where did you get this, Manusmriti? There is nothing that practicing brahmins believe in that says that good punya will make you a brahmin. Tradition is, regular pitri tarpayam and shraddha will ensure your father or grandfather will be born again into the same family. Poor brahmin can't get out of his varna unless he stops being brahmin, renounces world and his cast to gain true enlightenment. It could be argued that kshatryas thought they were superior to brahmins. Anyway, all this silly talk of superiority, inferiority when we need all kinds of people in this world.

5.will dream of bringing back old varnashrama

Doubt it. Brahmins just want to survive. Some see it as a duty to keep their dharma alive as well. I doubt if they really care about keeping castism alive, though. Just leave us alone and all will be fine.

6.will openly propogate that people should go back to caste based jobs.
7.Will say that sathi and child marriage should be bought back

None of these things have anything to do with Brahminism. They are not even related or even remotely connected to brahmins.

8.Will say that eating together with non-brahmins is "theettu"

If a brahmin is trying to keep his vibration at a certain level, his food is important as the food carries vibrations. Hasidic jews do same with food and they call it kosher. The people one is surrounded with and the thoughts of those people has an affect on the spiritual energy as well (why else do we have satsang). That is why Hasidic jews have untouchability laws and so do Native American Indian Shamans, all of which the whole world respects due to their spiritual practice. For those groups it is understood it has nothing to do with superiority/inferiority.

9.will oppose intercaste marriages, love mariages and women going to work.

Brahmin women are probably the first woman to go to work in all of India. They are probably the first to have intercaste marriage and love marriage as well. Brahmin poets enjoy telling stories of love marriage as does Vyasa and Valmiki.

Hindu mullahs can be found in all hindu castes.Devar mullahs prevent dalits from pulling temple charriot in kandadevi.Vanniyar mullahs prevent dalits from going in procession in their streets even when they carry dead bodies.

Such enemies should be outcasted immediatly.They should be declared as racists and enemies of humanity and should be packed off to arabia. I would even encourage them to convert into christians or muslims where conservatism is welcomed. Please go and spoil those religions. Dont spoil my religion.

Let's make a deal. I won't spoil your religion if you leave us brahmins alone. Allow us to practice our traditions unfettered. We will be happy. We don't need to contol anybody or anything. We just want to be left be and given the same opportunities and protections as everybody else in Bharat.

 

[Shanti Brahm]

What I find outrageous about us Hindus is that when the bloodline of Christ and Mary Magdeline is all the rage among Da Vinci coders and modern Christians and the bloodline of Mohammed causes so many wars between Shia and Sunni Muslims, we still can't accept today that our ancient Rishis had a bloodline?

Though, I should add as long as it is not detrimental to our own survival, modern brahmins should go out and champion the rights and privaleges of Dalits, scheduled classes and other castes in a show for support of equal rights and opportunities of all people. Only then will India will once again be a great country where any individual can live a life of freedom and spiritual significance.

 

[GGR]

Nice topic!!, All I can say is, I agree with the views of Shanti.

Goundamani, u need to read Kautilya's Arthashastra (talks about inter-caste marriage, status of Brahmins and other varnas -- read about similarities between wages/priorities given to shudra and brahmin) and Manusmrithi.

Shanti, you seem to have good knowledge of gotrams, any good books u recomend?

-GGR
Rajiv G Gunja

 

[Brahmanyan]

Varnasrama

I have been going trough the discussions on this thread and found different views quite interesting. Here we should not forget that we are discussing about a Social Evolution which is taking place from time immemorial. Even though I do not subscribe to some of the views, I feel it is essential and healthy to discuss all facets of a subject. But my request is that we should not exhibit emotions in language, then the discussion will fall into arguement.


According to me Varnasrama is a social division on the basis of the duties performed by each group. If we read our Puranas like Mahabharata or Ramayana even though it is heriditary in nature, inter change among the Varnas are not uncommon. Sub division of the Varnas have taken roots in the form of Castes (jaathi), again on the basis of work. Social Divisions on the nature of work, always brings Hierarchy, a word derived from Greek word "hierosarkho" meaning sacred rule or ranking for organizing people and things. A social discipline that goes with the job, which is common to all Religions, Governments, Political Movements and security services like Armies. When some one enjoys Hierarchial priveleges once, he will never like to leave it even though he may not be performing that duty. Similarly clashes among the Castes in villages come only when the oppressed questions the hierarchial commands. This is nothing to do with brahmins. Nowadays there are no brahmins in villages.

If we look around we will find A Priest in Church, A Mulla in the Mosque, a Rabbai in a synagogue or the Vedic Scholar among the Hindus command certain respect among the members of the community because of their religious duties towards God. That does not mean one is superior or others inferior. If there were any wrongs done to any other community in the name of birth, it should be corrected by the Society. Brahmins have always stood in the forefront of reforms. This was what Sri Ramanujacharya did by giving the sacred Manthra to all the oppressed people (tirukkulathar) from the temple tower of Tirykottiyur. And Sri Chaithanya Maha Prbhu did in Bengal and many other reformers followed them later. I can quote a number of names from Brahmin Community who have done yeoman service in uplifting the oppressed. No doubt it will continue always.


Brahmanyan.

 

[Shanti Brahm]

Reply to Rajiv Gunja

I cannot think of any good books off hand but I do believe there are discrepencys between academic studies on the Gotra and the Gotra according to Brahmin and Vedic tradition. It is good to learn about your Gotra from an elder in your family. These days, fewer and fewer Brahmins know their tradition and it is getting lost or preserved by academics who are creating an Anthropological model to understand Brahminism by - and worse, Sociological models that fall far from their spiritual roots.

Try the following sites for now:

http://www.gsbkerala.com/gotra.htm

http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Mystica/html/gotra.htm

--------------------------------------

Another interesting tangent is that the Gotras of the Brahmins has translated into a New Age Teaching called the Doctrine of the 7 Rays. When the founder of the Theosophical movement, HP Blavatsky, wrote about the Gotras, she translated the word Gotra into Ray and then explained much of the esoteric meaning behind Gotra in her magna opus, The Secret Doctrine.

Eventually other New Age movements caught on and created there own version of what the Rays meant (though unlike HPB, they were not aware of the original Brahmin teachings and therefore created entire systems of their own.) So I highly recommend the Secret Doctrine for looking up old Brahmin concepts in general as it throws much light.

Also, the Giri Press may have books now on the subject and kanchipoorum may also have information. Remember that the subject of Gotra is still taboo outside of the academic study in the world at large so the best sources are elder brahmins who are still living their brahmin traditions.

 

[fire]

We have to be careful about betrayers

Hi,
I actually wanted to start such a topic but found this . The discussion is in a different angle. Here some philosophical thoughts/beliefs are discussed which might be outdated or still hold good depending on persons.Ofcourse there is positive and negatives on women going to work. Similarly many people wont do intercaste marriages but if others do they wont oppose.As far as I am concerned its their choice.
My intention here is to make a point related to the topic. We have to identify the people who backstab us and try to avoid them. If possible try to educate others including your family not to favour them. One may be a greate newspaper , if it is not reporting the atrocities against us and favouring the opposite ideology why the hell we keep on buying it??One may be great actor but if he turns to be betrayer and takes a position 'I wil favour a group which attacks temple,call us idiots , hate us, hurt the sentiments( I think its also an offence)' why should not we start a campaign or atleast make sure we and our family avoid him? Its not that he / news paper is going to loss because of it. But we have to show our legitimate protest and I strongly feel the act of supporting his act is like giving money to Pakistan when our soldiers are fighting against it.

 

[fire]

Identify backstabbers

I feel we have to identify backstabbers who blame us for false reasons and avoid them totally. Take an example of a newspaper who ignore us, not only brahmins but the religion also and favours the policies which will harm the nation itself. Still why the hell we buy that newspaper?A director , may be good at his profession takes films in such a way that creating sympathy on terror groups still you are applauding his work.Why? An actor again is completely and purposefully ignoring the plight of the brahmins and Hindus in TN and just spitting on their face again and again ....He never condemns the brutal attacks on temples and priests. He will never condemn the way politician use dirty words against our respectful Hindu leaders. I feel hurting sentiments of religious people itself a moral offense.THat doesnt mean u cannot argue on beliefs.But I feel hurt when one call 'who follows this is an idiot'.And some actors proclaim such things.And we celebrate them. Why????:flame:

 

[okonomi]

I see what you mean.....recently i was in a discussion of whether or not the most wealthy in Tamilnadu are Tamil brahmins. If not, why are they considered superior to the wealthy. In this discussion (of mostly western caucasian christians who like to visit India often) it was not clear who considered brahmins superior to any other groups. Noone could explain this. The confusion between "classes" and castes is also an issue. When internet postings talk about "other backward classes" that are given certain privileges in India, the word "class" and "caste" are used somewhat interchangeably. This is an interesting chain. @Shanti..Thanks for the links.

 

[kunjuppu]

okonomi,

can you please identify yourself to the admins. it is strange that a new comer, without even introducing himself, jumps into a most controversial topic last updated in 2006, and maybe you can identify @shanthi who has helped you identify this thread.

the reason being there are quite a few people, who come here out of the blue, and without establishing their bonafide. ie we have current avatars of naradar, and they appear to do a pretty good job, as many folks appear to be gullible here to such shenanigans.

so.. please contact admins, and if possible another member of good standing tp prove your sincerety in discussing this topc.

thank you.

 

[pannvalan]

Well said, Kunjuppu.

 

[S.Chandrasekaran]

Dear Sir,
Namasthe. I really agree with your statement.
with love,
manushyan.

 

[praveen]

the user seems like a valid one.. but not taking any chances. this thread is now closed.