We are proud of you.

[suraju06]

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A culture which has come to lean heavily on the idiot box and the make believe world of cenema for its new cultural values, started shedding tears copiously and went on a chest beating competition when the actor Sanjay Dutt was condemned to cool his heals in the prison for another three and a half years for the offences he committed. From ministers (state and central) and political heavy-weights and their hangers-on to retired senior judges who have a penchant to somehow remain in the limelight saying the right thing or the wrong thing, every one came out loudly in support of the Actor. They pleaded and argued with the Government of the day for pardoning him and sparing him the punishment. For a moment I was also tempted to think that this poor soul deserves a pardon. That is the power of the media on impressible minds like mine. But later when I thought about it a little more, I found more and more reasons not to pardon this actor. He was not a child but a grown up individual when he committed the offence. And the crime was 1)hobnobbing with underworld elements 2)acquiring through illegal means dangerous weapons like AK56 Assault rifle and a few bombs and keeping them in his house hidden etc., The judicial system of the country had, through a transparent and thoroughly meticulous process, conducted the trial and had come to the conclusion that he was a culprit and gave him the punishment. He was given the opportunity to appeal and the appeal dragged on in the higher court. Meanwhile he was released on bail and enabled to earn a few millions by acting in films, which was his profession. Now when the judgment in the appeal confirmed his punishment there is a hue and cry and an orchestrated campaign is going on.

In the midst of this deafening cacophony of nay sayers, there is one voice which is clear and bold. That is of Mr. Subramanian Swamy. He says the Actor is eminently punishable and has to complete the sentence in prison. He has gone to the extent of saying that he will go to court if the actor is pardoned. That is bravery and valour. Boldly standing up to uphold what is right. Swamy, you have gone up several notches in my esteem for your courage. I am proud of you because I too am a brahmin.

Cheers.

 

[sangom]

I fully endorse your sentiments, Raju. In fact some others who had also kept deadly assault weapons as part of the Mumbai terror attack plan have received life imprisonment. Hence this Sanjay Dutt is being let off very lightly, may be because his father Sunil Dutt was a congressman and favourite of the Nehru-Gandhis household.

 

[prasad1]

The 1993 Mumbai serial blasts had a twin agenda — first, to rock India’s business capital; and second, to arm rioters to trigger communal violence.


Sanjay was found to be possessing a deadly AK-56 rifle and a 9mm pistol following the Mumbai blasts which snuffed out 257 lives and injured 713 others. It is pertinent to mention that the arms recovered from Dutt were a part of the consignment of weapons brought from Pakistan to execute the coordinated blasts. Sanjay Dutt was caught red-handed. Sanjay Dutt was even more involved in the procurement of these smuggled weapons. If he had collaborated with the good government officials, these criminals would have been apprehended, and these lives could have been saved. To convict him only for the possession of Arms was too lenient.


“Evidence and materials perused by TADA court in arriving at the decision against Dutt was correct. The circumstances and nature of offence was so serious that Dutt could not be released on probation,” the Supreme Court made it clear.

Should not the SC be hailed this time for its acute observations and a good judgement? Already, Sanjay has evaded harsh punishment in the case, thanks to political goodwill.


The SC judgement is a warning to those who think they can ride on their popularity and get away with the crimes they have committed. In a country where we are used to witnessing powerful men evade punishment, the judgement comes as a breather. From hunting blackbucks, drink-drive killings to hitting diners and slapping onlookers, why are the offences and crimes committed by the movie stars seen as just `errors`?

 

[sarang]

Terrorism related charges against sanjay dutt were withdrawn by the maharashtra government. He had a closed door meeting in nasik with some dubious characters.

The government and cbi and investigating agencies can dilute the charges at any time or even bury the investigation.

 

[Iyer@Infosys]

Sanjay Dutt may be a celebrity, but in the eyes of the law (and also in the eyes of the just and the sane) he is a criminal, a culprit who is guilty. Thanks to SC Verdict, we can repose some confidence in our law.

Whoever chose him to play the role of Gandhigiri has committed an even greater crime. It is identical to Osama Bin Laden playing the character of Gandhi.

 

[renuka]

I feel Sanjay Dutt should be pardoned..he has served his stint in prison before and I don't see any reason why he has to land in there again.

You can't hang a same person twice.


I don't see any reason why anyone need to say that they will go to court if Sanju is pardoned??


It is easy to talk when the court is dealing with a person like Sanjay Dutt who is basically harmless..I think no one dare make a statement like that if the case was dealing with some underworld don.

Anyway there is nothing to rejoice at the suffering of another.

Sanju has had his stint in prison.

Let's hope he is pardoned or given a lighter sentence.

BTW I am amazed to see some claiming proudly that Swamy is a Brahmin..once upon a time in forum this same personality was discussed many were saying he married a Parsi..his daughter became a muslim and many were singing not too nice tunes about him.

Suddenly he is being praised here.

Wow I guess its Yada Yada Tada Tada syndrome.

 

[tbs]

hi
if jesus was crucified......based on his conviction against jews/judaism......EACH AND EVEY ACTION HAS EQUAL AND OPPOSITE

REACTION....may be theory of cause and affect....may be theory of Newton's third law in physics....or may be theory of

karma according to hinduism....the weapons he kept was not toy gun....so he gets what he does.....so.he was not getting any

death sentence.....just imprisonment....

 

[renuka]

In the midst of this deafening cacophony of nay sayers, there is one voice which is clear and bold. That is of Mr. Subramanian Swamy. He says the Actor is eminently punishable and has to complete the sentence in prison. He has gone to the extent of saying that he will go to court if the actor is pardoned. That is bravery and valour. Boldly standing up to uphold what is right. Swamy, you have gone up several notches in my esteem for your courage. I am proud of you because I too am a brahmin.

Cheers.

I wonder sometimes why it is always a Brahmin that is after the neck of another Brahmin??

Sanjay Dutt is a Brahmin too.

 

[zebra16]

What I want to highlight is the baying for the blood by the media constantly 24 x 7.

As soon as a crime of higher heinous nature like rape or murder or terrorism is reported, the media jumps in and starts the media trial to persecute the family members of the accused, ropes in the family members of the victim to play the victimhood and starts chanting the mantra of JUSTICE, JUSTICE, JUSTICE ad infinitum. The same thing happened with Sanjay Dutt too and now everyone is shouting Hooray, Justice has been done.

Really? In case of death there can never be true justice. The slain or dead victim family members can only be compensated and the guilty punished. There is no way the dead can be brought back to life for meting out real justice.

 

[zebra16]

I feel Sanjay Dutt should be pardoned..he has served his stint in prison before and I don't see any reason why he has to land in there again.

You can't hang a same person twice.

There is a slight misunderstanding by you here. Sanjay Dutt has been awarded 5 years imprisonment and he has served only about 18 months of it as an undertrial. As per law he is
required to complete the full term, unless he is pardoned by some competent authority.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Zebra your post #9:,

What I want to highlight is the baying for the blood by the media constantly 24 x 7.
As soon as a crime of higher heinous nature like rape or murder or terrorism is reported, the media jumps in and starts the media trial to persecute the family members of the accused, ropes in the family members of the victim to play the victimhood and starts chanting the mantra of JUSTICE, JUSTICE, JUSTICE ad infinitum. The same thing happened with Sanjay Dutt too and now everyone is shouting Hooray, Justice has been done.
Really? In case of death there can never be true justice. The slain or dead victim family members can only be compensated and the guilty punished. There is no way the dead can be brought back to life for meting out real justice.

That is one way of looking at crime and punishment. In the case of pre-meditated crimes and the punishment as per law there is another better view. When a crime is committed knowing fully well its nature and consequences the offender does not deserve the treatment that is meted out to a criminal who commits a crime in the heat of the moment. Mr. Sanjay knew well what he was doing. Coming to the punishment, it is given for two reasons. 1. The offender should be corrected or should be removed from the society toprevent him from causing further damage to the society. 2. The society should know what will be the consequences of a criminal behavior so that people tending towards that hesitate or stay back from it. Now if Sanjay is to be pardoned it would send a signal that any one can smuggle weapons and bombs in collaboration with underworld, keep it for self-defence or for offence, and if caught can pay and engage powerful people to plead their case with the Govt. and go scot free in the name of executive pardon. If this were to happen the country will become a terribly unsafe place to live. If the Actor were a cadre belonging to the Maoists and had actually killed a few policemen with his AK 56 and had surrendered and was seeking pardon he will be eligible for pardon but not when he, sitting in the cool comforts of his Juhu Bungalow, coolly joins hands with dangerous elements and helps them smuggle weapons to burn Bombay, he deserves not only no sympathy, I would rather say he deserves a harsher punishment.

Dear Renuka your post #6:,

I feel Sanjay Dutt should be pardoned..he has served his stint in prison before and I don't see any reason why he has to land in there again.
You can't hang a same person twice.
I don't see any reason why anyone need to say that they will go to court if Sanju is pardoned??

Please refer to post #10 and what I have written above.

It is easy to talk when the court is dealing with a person like Sanjay Dutt who is basically harmless..I think no one dare make a statement like that if the case was dealing with some underworld don.

Sanjay has to explain why he possessed the weapons and why he did not account for them to the police voluntarily as per the law of the country. Then he will have to explain why he held back info from police about the smuggling of weapons into the country through the west coast.

Anyway there is nothing to rejoice at the suffering of another.

It is not the suffering of Sanju bhai that is rejoiced about. It is the escape from the law in the name of celebrity status that has to be mourned.

Sanju has had his stint in prison.

There is nothing great about a criminal having a stint in the prison.

BTW I am amazed to see some claiming proudly that Swamy is a Brahmin..once upon a time in forum this same personality was discussed many were saying he married a Parsi..his daughter became a muslim and many were singing not too nice tunes about him.

Swamy's father and mother were brahmins. Period.

Suddenly he is being praised here.
Wow I guess its Yada Yada Tada Tada syndrome.

He is praised here because he has opposed the "pardon him" chant. Sometimes doctor's diagnosis of a problem goes wrong like in this case.

Cheers.

 

[renuka]

Dear Zebra your post #9:,


That is one way of looking at crime and punishment. In the case of pre-meditated crimes and the punishment as per law there is another better view. When a crime is committed knowing fully well its nature and consequences the offender does not deserve the treatment that is meted out to a criminal who commits a crime in the heat of the moment. Mr. Sanjay knew well what he was doing. Coming to the punishment, it is given for two reasons. 1. The offender should be corrected or should be removed from the society toprevent him from causing further damage to the society. 2. The society should know what will be the consequences of a criminal behavior so that people tending towards that hesitate or stay back from it. Now if Sanjay is to be pardoned it would send a signal that any one can smuggle weapons and bombs in collaboration with underworld, keep it for self-defence or for offence, and if caught can pay and engage powerful people to plead their case with the Govt. and go scot free in the name of executive pardon. If this were to happen the country will become a terribly unsafe place to live. If the Actor were a cadre belonging to the Maoists and had actually killed a few policemen with his AK 56 and had surrendered and was seeking pardon he will be eligible for pardon but not when he, sitting in the cool comforts of his Juhu Bungalow, coolly joins hands with dangerous elements and helps them smuggle weapons to burn Bombay, he deserves not only no sympathy, I would rather say he deserves a harsher punishment.

Dear Renuka your post #6:,



Please refer to post #10 and what I have written above.



Sanjay has to explain why he possessed the weapons and why he did not account for them to the police voluntarily as per the law of the country. Then he will have to explain why he held back info from police about the smuggling of weapons into the country through the west coast.



It is not the suffering of Sanju bhai that is rejoiced about. It is the escape from the law in the name of celebrity status that has to be mourned.



There is nothing great about a criminal having a stint in the prison.



Swamy's father and mother were brahmins. Period.



He is praised here because he has opposed the "pardon him" chant. Sometimes doctor's diagnosis of a problem goes wrong like in this case.

Cheers.

Dear Suraju Ji,

On technical grounds you have almost all points right.

What I was surprised about in your original post #1 was the fact that you mentioned that you are proud of Swami cos he is a fellow Brahmin too.

What has caste got to do with this case?
If Swami's caste was worth a mention then the caste of Sanju is also worth a mention.
That is why I wrote that Sanju too is a Brahmin and why is one Brahmin after the neck of another Brahmin? (Swamy Vs Sanju)


What you wrote in your last line in post #1 did not make sense..you mean to say if it was someone else who was not a TB who said those same words like what Swami did..would you have also said you are proud of him??

That was my doubt in my mind.

Anyway Swami is a well known personality who is vocal and admirable for his thoughts too which I had written before in forum praising him stance on some well known controversial issue before.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Renuka,

What I was surprised about in your original post #1 was the fact that you mentioned that you are proud of Swami cos he is a fellow Brahmin too.

It requires extraordinary courage to speak the truth and fight for that when the overwhelming crowd around you is vociferously supporting the opposite. Swamy has that courage and he is a brahmin. I am proud of that courageous individual and I am again proud that he is a brahmin just as I am.

What has caste got to do with this case?
If Swami's caste was worth a mention then the caste of Sanju is also worth a mention.
That is why I wrote that Sanju too is a Brahmin and why is one Brahmin after the neck of another Brahmin? (Swamy Vs Sanju)
What you wrote in your last line in post #1 did not make sense..you mean to say if it was someone else who was not a TB who said those same words like what Swami did..would you have also said you are proud of him??That was my doubt in my mind.

I have answered this already. I quote this from Rudyard Kipling:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream -and not make dreams your master:
If you can think-and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you have spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings;
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the will which says to them; 'Hold on!'

I you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

And Swamy is a Man indeed.

Anyway Swami is a well known personality who is vocal and admirable for his thoughts too which I hadwritten before in forum praising him stance on some well known controversial issue before.

If any one else had said this I would have still been proud of him if there is common denominator--like being an Indian, a Tamil, A native of my village, A relative of mine etc., Here Swamy is a Tamil, an Indian and a brahmin like me and I am proud.

Cheers.

 

[renuka]

Dear Suraju ji,

God Bless you.

Take care.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Suraju ji,

God Bless you.

Take care.

dear Renuka,

I am blessed. Period.

Cheers.

 

[sarang]

I agree.

If any one else had said this I would have still been proud of him if there is common denominator--like being an Indian, a Tamil, A native of my village, A relative of mine etc., Here Swamy is a Tamil, an Indian and a brahmin like me and I am proud.

Cheers.

 

[P.J.]

Here is a small letter from an Indian Citizen who...
Posted: Mar 31, 2013 (08:40:42 PM) | Updated: Mar 31, 2013 (09:44:44 PM)
Here is a small letter from an Indian Citizen who is fed up with Media and their breaking news

Do not make Sanjay Dutt into a Hero as he is already one. He possessed weapons that citizens are not supposed to and is paying a price for the same

Don’t speak on your talk shows about his contribution to Bollywood and Films as by that Logic Big B should be allowed to massacre atleast 5000 Indians

Also he is not the only man in India who is being sent to Jail with a wife and small kids, many prisoners have wives and kids. Infact once they go to jail the family starves whereas the Dutt family will still continue to stay at Pali Hill and travel in luxury cars

Oh Media also do throw some light on how Sanjay Dutt was associated with the Congress and S.P.

More importantly stop interviewing bollywood stars and speak to those who lost their loved ones in the blast of 1993 and air their views as that will be the Truth

Warm Regards,
An Indian Citizen fed up with Media

Top tada hero News
​

 

[venkat2206]

Dear Suraju ji,

God Bless you.

Take care.

Dear Renuka Madam,

After more than a month today I am visiting the site and very glad and surprised to note that the views expressed by you are same as mine.

Why this extra attention towards this person - because he is a celebrity. Had it been a normal person no body would have bothered to start a thread for this case. As an under trial, he has already spent 18 months in prison. By serving the remaining 42 months, in what way the society is going to be benefitted ? No way. Rather than doing this, he can be asked to pay a very hefty fine which can be used very well for the victims of 1993 blasts. Recently, I cam across an article about a person (sorry not able to remember his name) who is living with the glass pieces and still waiting for the grant on 1 Lakhs announced by Government in 1993.

Request to all members - please do not bounce on me stating that if some one can pay the fine, can they be allowed to commit any crime. He has already tasted the worst life of a prison and some more period in prison may not make any much difference in his life - but much more useful things can be done with the amount collected by way of fine.

Today, he might have already realized his mistake committed 20 years back - he can further prolong this by filing some appeals - but he is ready to face the prison. 20 years of time might have brought so many changes in a person's mind and why not give him a chance.

In any case, whoever has written their views in this thread has no capacity whatsoever to change his fate. It is only a place where we can place our views.

God bless all of us.

Venkat K

 

[prasad1]

A crime against humanity is a CRIME irrespective of the caste. It should be condemned by everyone.
We are not naive to expect that all are going to be treated equally, ideally we would expect that,

The rich and famous have various means at their disposal to get off lightly, if at all. The average takes their chances with the legal system. The poor has no means and is at the mercy of the judicial system, and gets the worst treatment.

Does the common people's sentiment count? Sometime it does, even judiciary is subject to public pressure.
In this case judiciary came down on the right side, the Executive branch can pardon, and that too is their prerogative.
The family and friends of the accused must do everything in their power, and so must the victims family.

 

[biswa]

The caste issue brought into this thread is completely bogus. A crime is a crime is a crime. Has got nothing to do with who is defending whom. The IPC does not mention caste. Thankfully.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

I found the following post elsewhere by Priya Kale |March 25, 2013 Click here

( Priya Kale , a graduate from the London School ofEconomics, is a research analyst in Singapore. )

…Justice (Katju)… state(s) that since Dutt’s crime is less serious than that of murder (as in Commander Nanavati’s case), a pardon should be considered. ……the two cases do not even begin to compare. Cdr Kawas Manekshaw Nanavati was a naval officer who, in April 1959, shot dead his friend Prem Ahuja after he found out that he had been having an affair with his wife, Sylvia Nanavati. But it wasn’t as simple as that. Apparently, Cdr Nanavati wanted to shoot himself. However, he first asked Ahuja whether or not he was willing to accept Sylvia and his children. After Ahuja supposedly said, “Do I have to marry every woman that I sleep with…Get the hell out of here…” a scuffle ensued, in which it is claimed Cdr Nanavati shot his friend. The prosecution argued though that it was premeditated murder. …Cdr Nanavati was found not guilty of murder by a jury.The judge found it to be a miscarriage of justice and the case went to re-trialwhere the prosecution’s version was upheld, he was found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment. After serving three years of his sentence, he waspardoned by the then-Governor of Maharashtra, Vijaylakshmi Pandit. …..there is one crucial difference between Cdr Nanavati’sand Dutt’s case – Cdr Nanavati voluntarily surrendered to the Provost Marshall of the Western Naval Commandand confessed to the murder. Moreover, …..the Commander was granted a pardononly after Ahuja’s sister granted thepermission to do so. This is an important detail because it showsthat the Nanavati case was between two individuals and the law. Ultimately, it was Ahuja’s next of kin who suffered the most and whose prerogative it was togrant that permission. Sanjay Dutt’s conviction is between a man, the law and society. In such a scenario, who has the prerogative to give such a permission?

Justice Katju has waxed eloquent on how 90% of Indians are idiots and we are a poverty-stricken nation because we are unscientific, believe in astrology and pay way too much attention to filmstars. Yet, that does not explain why the United States, a nation where Kim Kardashian is famous for being famous and where the creationism v/s evolution debate gets serious attention, is so much more developed than India. A better explanation is that the United States has better institutions than India. Acemoglu and Robinson have written an entire book on the subject (Why Nations Fail)and have talked about how equality before the law (among other things) ensures that a larger chunk of a nation’s citizens can access the means to prosperity and economic success.

Let’s be clear about one thing. Sanjay Dutt has been convicted of a serious crime. The consequences of hobnobbing with gangsters, procuring AK 56 rifles and grenades and then trying to destroy them would have much graver consequences for the rest of us than they have had for Sanjay Dutt. Though in all fairness it may be disingenuous to accuse Justice Katju of being in awe of Dutt’s celebrity, such a pardon will reinforce the notion that there is a separate law for the rich and the famous.

If the good Justice does want to genuinely see the development of India, he would agree that Dutt’s case is a good motif to illustrate that everyone faces the same economic incentives and punitive deterrents under a genuinely democratic system. This opportunity must not be squandered. ………………