What we need to learn from the west..

[kunjuppu]

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I am not saying this ie the title of this thread. i am sure to get brick bats and red letters.

but this is from narayna murthy of infosys. coming from him i bet, it carries some weight. he is a man to be admired, as one of the few, who put india's name on the commerce and business field worldwide... and thus come up with one industry which even the might USA views as a 'threat'

i find it preachy, but i think we need some preachy speeches, and maybe a fraction of an iota, may seep through our psyche and promote behaviour change.

to me, the most telling part of the speech is this... i have pasted it below for the benefit of the public:

Indians become intimate even without being friendly. They ask favors of strangers without any hesitation. For instance, the other day, while I was traveling from " Bangalore " to Mantralaya, I met a fellow traveler on the train. Hardly 5 minutes into the conversation, he requested me to speak to his MD about removing him from the bottom 10% list in his company, earmarked for disciplinary action. I was reminded of what Rudyard Kipling once said: A westerner can be friendly without being intimate while an easterner tends to be intimate without being friendly.[/URL]

i have lost count of times, when i have sat inbetween flights in indian airports, and some stranger comes and enquires about my most intimate family details. i know how to handle this. but to teach defence of such types of assaults, to my children, who essentially are trusting and open...is an almost impossible task..how to self defend, without villifying a whole society?

for those still interested in reading the full speech, here is the url

narayana murthy speech

 

[sangom]

I am not saying this ie the title of this thread. i am sure to get brick bats and red letters.

but this is from narayna murthy of infosys. coming from him i bet, it carries some weight. he is a man to be admired, as one of the few, who put india's name on the commerce and business field worldwide... and thus come up with one industry which even the might USA views as a 'threat'

i find it preachy, but i think we need some preachy speeches, and maybe a fraction of an iota, may seep through our psyche and promote behaviour change.

to me, the most telling part of the speech is this... i have pasted it below for the benefit of the public:

Indians become intimate even without being friendly. They ask favors of strangers without any hesitation. For instance, the other day, while I was traveling from " Bangalore " to Mantralaya, I met a fellow traveler on the train. Hardly 5 minutes into the conversation, he requested me to speak to his MD about removing him from the bottom 10% list in his company, earmarked for disciplinary action. I was reminded of what Rudyard Kipling once said: A westerner can be friendly without being intimate while an easterner tends to be intimate without being friendly.[/URL]

i have lost count of times, when i have sat inbetween flights in indian airports, and some stranger comes and enquires about my most intimate family details. i know how to handle this. but to teach defence of such types of assaults, to my children, who essentially are trusting and open...is an almost impossible task..how to self defend, without villifying a whole society?

for those still interested in reading the full speech, here is the url

narayana murthy speech

Dear Kunjuppu,

I do not consider that Narayanamurthy can admonish or tender moral advice to Indians. He has been one of the major causes for importing western values into Indian society in a very pernicious way by "motivating" his software employees to ape everything that is western and now that his company is on its setting course, he probably tries to call out like the village boy in the fable, "All those afraid of the tiger, fall on me!"புலிக்குப் பயந்தவர் என்மேலெ வீழுங்கோ!".

And, as to your anxiety about your kids, I feel it is misplaced because the people in general will be selfish enough to know when someone tries to become too intimate even without having been even a friend. Plus, the western tourists are generally found to be stingy and probing, possibly because they feel there is lot of cheating going on in India.

I agree that we Indians are far from perfect and should improve, but Narayanamurthy philosophising on it is like Nitty waxing eloquent on Brahmacharyam!!

The saddest part is he (Narayana murthy) gave his speech on the occasion of getting the LBS award; LBS epitomized much of the best traditions of India, but Murthy did not have even a word in appreciation of Shastri.

 

[amala]

Strangers have even asked salaries sitting in airports lol!! How much more intimate can one get. I think Indians are generally nosy (i mean this in a nice way), I am aware that I may have this trait as well. Its probably a cultural thing. But then again I've observed that they are mostly curious only when they are the same heritage as you or close. Till date I haven't been interrogated by Punjabi/Gujarati/northies mamis/mamas in the airport yet!

 

[kunjuppu]

yes amala, usually it starts from 'where are you from?' or 'where are you going', then moves on to what are you doing, and then about marriage status, children, and so on..with the level of intimacy increasing.

usually, i try to ignore or just nod in a stupid way, as if i did not understand the implication.

on one occassion, there was this bangla deshi guy, who did not know whether i truly was from timbuktoo. now a days my preferred land of origin is guyana.

when i first came to canada, the local canadians, especially those who immigrated from england, used to ask me, almost the first time they met me, 'are you going back to your country', to which i cheerfully i would reply, 'i dont know'. stupid answer. but i used to think that was appropriate to a stupid question.

having been at the receiving end of so much wanton query, i make it very much a point, not to probe anyone about their antecedents, even over a few drinks while travelling on a plane. many occassions, we have chatted for hours, and parted, not knowing either our names or place of domicile

 

[prasad1]

Strangers have even asked salaries sitting in airports lol!! How much more intimate can one get. I think Indians are generally nosy (i mean this in a nice way), I am aware that I may have this trait as well. Its probably a cultural thing. But then again I've observed that they are mostly curious only when they are the same heritage as you or close. Till date I haven't been interrogated by Punjabi/Gujarati/northies mamis/mamas in the airport yet!

Yes each culture has its own traits. Sometimes we have changed, and things that were accepted as normal suddenly becomes nosy. It is not necessarily wrong or right. The noisiness sometimes helps, as there is a tendency to intervene. In the west and to an extent in metro cities of India, we insulate ourselves and bottle our problems. People in the west die lonely. There was a case here of a person dyeing and no body noticing it for 30 days. Finally the postman got worried because the mail was not being picked up and alerted the authorities. I am sure this would not happen in small town in India.

In last 30 years the customs in India too has changed. My sister's marriage was arranged in train while travelling from Calcutta to Madras. That kind of intimacy was possible in those days.

 

[renuka]

When I travel invariably someone will start talking...I don't mind cos at least it won't be boring.
The last time I traveled to India the guy sitting next to me was telling me all about his family,his wife and his 6 months old baby girl for which he had not chosen a name yet cos his wife and he can't yet decide on it.

So I asked him what he calls the baby?

He said he calls the baby "Baby".

Then he asked me if I knew some good names...starting from the word Ha.

So I suggested some names and he wrote it down.

But I told him dont tell your wife that you asked a stranger these names...tell her you got it from internet.

Then one 12 year old boy also was chatting away with me and he was telling me all about his school.

During the flight the plane went through an air pocket where it suddenly dropped real low..it was scary and many people screamed.

Then the 12 year old boy told me and the guy next to me "It feels like a spiritual experience where you feel the soul being detached from the body"

I was thinking "wow..a 12 year old was describing zero gravity situation in spiritual terms"

So you see..for a few hours while travelling..we get to meet many people.

Even while waiting in the air port to board flight to India one ex Indian air force Punjabi gentleman was talking away about his stay in Msia and also all his experiences in air force in India.

So its no big deal..I dont mind hearing anything during travel.

But somehow I feel Punjabis/Sardars are friendly and start talking easily to anyone.
Then when they get to know that you are Tamilian they start praising Tamilians.

South Indians are reserved and do not start talking unless spoken too.

 

[prasad1]

Some Indians have changed their values, culture, traits etc. Then they criticize the same old traits as nosey. We have to accept others as they are, and if we don not want to share, we can politely shift the topic. That does not mean we have to be rude. If we have not learned and inculcated in our children it is our fault. In India people give you less physical space, that too bothers them. I tell my friends that it is cultural, and even American understand that.

 

[sangom]

Strangers have even asked salaries sitting in airports lol!! How much more intimate can one get. I think Indians are generally nosy (i mean this in a nice way), I am aware that I may have this trait as well. Its probably a cultural thing. But then again I've observed that they are mostly curious only when they are the same heritage as you or close. Till date I haven't been interrogated by Punjabi/Gujarati/northies mamis/mamas in the airport yet!

Kum. amala,

As some members have already stated, telling one's problems and woes to others, including co-passengers whom you have met just minutes or half an hour back only, is a culture or tradition in much of India. Both the tellers and the listeners usually take it as perfectly normal; the sufferers also do not expect any immediate or even delayed comforts coming from the people to whom they tell their sad plight.

In this case (i.e., OP) Shri Narayanamurthy (NM) being a well-known person whose face is familiar to many and especially to a man working in some company might have thought that NM might be inclined to help him out, especially since both were travelling to the holy place of Mantralaya. I will like to remind Shri NM that he also used to go from company to company and from one firm to another, once not very long back to persuade them to buy some shares of his company. In fact my brother-in-law is lucky to have decided, after repeated pestering by NM, to buy some few hundred shares of Infosys which has given him (my BIL) a pile of money.

NM should not forget his roots and imagine as though he is a westerner who has descended into India.

Shri Prasad has referred to his sister's marriage having been arranged during a train journey. I know of one divorcee remarriage which was mostly finalized during a short bus journey of some 20 kms distance. That is India and we should, in our brahmin satviki way, neglect advices coming from pseudo-well-wishers like NM, I feel.

 

[prasad1]

I am disappointed with the view expressed in OP. The culture or art of communicating is unique to each culture. There are no right or wrong way. If one does not want to hear others, they can always pretend to have a hearing problem. If you feel compassion for fellow human being, you may listen and share your experiences. After all we are here in this site anonymously sharing our personal details with strangers.

 

[renuka]

If you feel compassion for fellow human being, you may listen and share your experiences.

Dear Prasad ji,

I agree..we do not lose anything by being compassionate...as a doctor I have seen cases of where people with intentions of committing suicide changed their minds cos some stranger heard their problems.

After all a journey does not last too long in train or plane etc.

We do not have to get too personal with anyone but just think of it as a friendly chat which ends when the journey ends.

 

[amala]

I agree to an extent that yes when random strangers in confined spaces probe. they are also more than likely to go out of their way tobe of assistance should one require. But OTOH its all very well in theory to say that if we don't like answering their questions we can politely change the topic. There are many many people who just do not get it, even when spelt out to let it go. They do not get the hint ever an keep at it. Short of being extremely rude, cut and dry one has wince (grinning is the last thing one would do! lol) and bear it. This reminds of a Steve Martin's film, Planes, Trains and Automobiles

Having said that, I have actually made some wonderful friends on trips and met some lovely people.

 

[prasad1]

In the west you pay a therapist to listen to your problems. They too generally do not provide any assistance, they allow you to pour out your problems and sometimes find your own solution. We did not therapist, strangers acted as one. The neighbors would look after your child. In the small town that I grew up in India, there was not much of secrets. Some body some where will notice and the words would get back to your parents before you returned home. It may be construed as invasion of privacy, but was also the invisible hand of help. In east we have closeness of family and friends. We bring that culture to west.
In the west they may have their privacy, but are lonely too. An American friend of mine would always say that the Prasad Hilton is always open, as various cars would be parked in our driveway every weekend. The same friend had a child and his parents would come from out of town and stay in Hilton nearby and come and visit the baby during day time. So they can have their culture and I would rather have mine.

Having said that, there are a lot of practices we can borrow from west, and similarly people in West have a lot to learn from people in the East.

 

[kunjuppu]

I am disappointed with the view expressed in OP. The culture or art of communicating is unique to each culture. There are no right or wrong way. If one does not want to hear others, they can always pretend to have a hearing problem. If you feel compassion for fellow human being, you may listen and share your experiences. After all we are here in this site anonymously sharing our personal details with strangers.

in the context of prasad's feedback, i read my OP again. and do wish to qualify my statement..

it all depends....

it all depends on who it is who sits next to me and engages in a conversation. it is a vibe that emanates from both and should sync. that is all i am able to say, for i too have met people in trains and planes, and have exchanged life stories.

i think it is of late, that i am more reticient ...no i cannot even say that, for during my recent trip to chennai, i was sitting next to a naicker soft ware engineer unmarried mid twenties pretty young girl, whose big issue in life now, was to find a spouse, before her parents forced one on her. she was comfortably single in the u.k. and by the end, even though we did not exchange name or address, were on sufficient chummy to share the pain-in-the-butt behaviour of a young muslim wife who was going on and on about the in laws, and the poor hubby quiet and patient. all over 3000 ruppees and not even pounds.

which is why, i say now, it depends.

hope this explanation is somewhat more detailed enough for prasad to see my pov; necessarily to appreciate it

 

[prasad1]

Mr. K,
I was more disappointed by Mr. Murty's comments.

There is a fine line between camaraderie and invasion of privacy. We swing from one to other depending on the vibe.
You are right there is a lot of give and take.