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Who decided that our gods and goddess should look like what we see now?

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sunita

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This question has always intrigued me.
Who decided that our gods should like how we see them today? Did an individual or a group of people sit down and figured that Hanuman should like what we see now? Ganesha should be like this, Murugan should be like this etc...

Any insight would be welcome.

/* topic purely for knowledge purpose and for no other motive */
 
Good question!

Its an artist impression.

It also depends one the race of the artist.

Chinese artist depict a very Chinese looking Lord Buddha.

The Indian artist depict an Indian looking Lord Buddha.

So I guess we will never know!
 
Hinduism is the dominant religion of the Indian subcontinent. It comprises three major traditions, Shaivism, Vaishnavism and Shaktism, whose followers considered Shiva, Vishnu and Shakti (also called as Devi) to be the supreme deity respectively. Most of the other deities were either related to them or different forms (incarnations) of these deities.

Hinduism has been called the "oldest religion" in the world, and many practitioners refer to Hinduism as "the eternal law". (Sanātana Dharma). Given below is a list of the chief Hindu deities followed by a list of Hindu deities (including demi-gods).

Within Hinduism, a large number of personal gods (Ishvaras) are worshipped as murtis. These beings are significantly powerful entities known as devas. The exact nature of belief in regard to each deity varies between differing Hindu denominations and philosophies.

Often these beings are depicted in humanoid or partially humanoid forms, complete with a set of unique and complex iconography in each case. The devas are expansions of Brahman into various forms, each with a certain quality.





Hindu deities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HISTORY OF HINDUISM
Tripura, the land of fourteen gods and million statues
 
Kisne Jani teri surat Kaun banete teri Murat.
Like Others said it is all artist and story writer's imagination.
But in todays Hindutva charged India, the story and artist's images are considered "facts" and science books are changed.
Even Mr. Mody thinks that Ganesha story of elephant head transplant on human being is possible. We are in fantasy land, and fairy tales are real.
 
Some representations of deities are from mythology: For instance, "Mariamman".

Mariamman is believed to have been incarnated as Renuka Devi, mother of Parasurama. Since Parasurama severed her head and then her lifeless body got fixed with another woman's head, Mariamman is represented with a head in front of her vigraha.
 
And before him there are thousands of moolavar and vigrahams, in open temples, cave temples and enormous literature on the roopam and lavanyam of all 'gods'. Vaduvur raman is quite different from ravivarma's painting.

At least some pictures of Goddesses such as lakshmi, saraswathi etc are based on Raja ravi varmas paintings
 
We are in fantasy land, and fairy tales are real.
Some have neither imagination, nor respect nor masala required to visualize, feel and experience. Sad, they miss a lot. Bharat, the land of continuous civilization, culture, tradition and achievements in all spheres has eluded some. Continuous repeating of received ignorance is getting worse day by day.
 
Many have requested Modi to take up the issue of revival of worship, prayers and rituals in the hindu temple at Angkor Wat temple built by suryavarman in the 12th century. India has helped in renovating the heritage temple. Hope cambodia agrees.
 
I liked the TITLE.

Most of what is said is too much for my STUPID mind.

My comments:

Giving importance to Religion by saying Hinduism is a dominant religion and not to individual gods and godesses will only confuse the topic.
 
A 4 year old child may not understand the concept of Brahman, so we invented all these "god forms", but some never grew up, they still believe in that fantasy.
 
This question has always intrigued me.
Who decided that our gods should like how we see them today? Did an individual or a group of people sit down and figured that Hanuman should like what we see now? Ganesha should be like this, Murugan should be like this etc...

Any insight would be welcome.

/* topic purely for knowledge purpose and for no other motive */

Sunitaji,

In hinduism we have had two distinct phases. The first one was when people (belonging to the three higher castes only) worshipped the sacred fire and through that sacred fire made offerings such as cooked rice/grains, meat, ghee, the famous "soma" drink, etc., to the many devas who constituted their (the completely vedic people, that is) pantheon. The veda contains some descriptions of each of these deities but in almost all cases such details are only about the outstanding qualities/characteristics of the deva concerned. No idol worship was done in those days and the Yajurveda 32-3 contains a mantra, न तस्य प्रतिमा अस्ति यस्य नाम महाद्यश: (na tasya pratimā asti yasya nāma mahādyaśa:) meaning "there is no idol (likeness) of THAT whose name is infinite glory/fame". The same mantra (sentence) appears in the Svetasvataropanishad (aasociated with Yajurveda) also.

At a later date when vedic scholars met to determine the correct pronunciation and meaning, import, etc., of the vedas during the Vijayanagar empire, this sentence was, reportedly, sought to be explained away by many of those scholars as
नतस्य प्रतिमा अस्ति यस्य नाम महाद्यश: (natasya pratimā asti yasya nāma mahādyaśa:) changing na tasya into natasya which means 'one who bows his head down' and giving very convoluting explanations in order not to go against idol worship which had, by then, become the sine qua non of hinduism. However, our ancient people had devised an elaborate system to iddentify and correct such mistakes creeping in into vedic chanting and by making use of that system (known as "vikruti") the council could assess the correct rendering to be na tasya and not natasya. Even so, nothing could be done to direct hindu religion to forsake idol worship.

When we say "idol worship" it includes worship of not only idols (made of stone, wood, etc.) but also any kind of worship of 'god with a form'. From the vedic period which was free from idol worship, how we, as a people, moved on to so complete idol worship is mired in mystery and scholars give many views for this phenomenon. What appears to me most plausible is that those vedic people had increase in their population and so they were compelled to spread in their search for more and more farmlands; when they so branched out, they came in contact with castes/tribes/groups which possibly worshipped animals like the elephant, wild boar, lion, monkey, tortoise, fish and so on and so forth, and it became a matter of necessity to adopt and adapt the vedic people's belief system to include all these caste-/tribal-/group- beliefs. Accordingly they (the vedic followers) wrote down different "puranas" and incorporated many divinities through this device, and this gave a great fillip to idol-worship in hinduism which was further promoted by different rulers at different times of history as their favourite god/religion. In all cases, there was an anthropomorphic side and we never borrowed any practice of worshipping an animal in its entire animal form; hence we have so many "gods" with different animal faces.

As regards number of hands/shoulders and faces, many of our gods have more than one. But today's science tells that two hands and one face is the most viable; all the rest are mere poetic exaggerations and all those gods will not be able to move even an inch since they have to balance their whole crude upper torso on their two legs only. The enigma is "why could not our ancient rishis bestow the gods with more than one pair of legs also?"!
 
Sangomji,
Very well written explanation. Why such "gods" happen in Hinduism, greek and Roman mythology? Did it also happen in Zoroastrian, which is somewhat akin to Vedic religion?
 
Sunitaji,

Presuming that you are seriously looking for an answer to this question I am trying here to give my views about this. If you are so modern that you find this to be steeped in superstition or too specious/flawed an understanding, so be it, because I am a vaishnavite and as the alwar said "the worm that lives in a neem tree knows no other taste than that of the neem tree"--வேம்பின் புழு வேம்பன்றி வேறு அறியாது.


How does a God look like?

The very god principle is such that no human being will ever be able to answer this with any authority and authenticity and we are all human beings who are going into this enterprise here.

“Vedas” , or "eternal knowledge" have admitted this by "YathA vacO nivarthanthE, aprApya manasA sahA". Yes, the mind goes to the frontier trying to answer this question and returns unsuccessful.

If that be so what are these anthropomorphous forms of God in Idols -there is a legion of them-Rama, Krishna, Nrisimha, Srivaraha, Srinivasa, Hayavadana, Ganapthy, Subramanya etc., etc.,?

This is a fundamental question about idol worship and can be formulated this way:

when God is an entity who is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient and who pervades the universe and beyond he is just formless and limitless and incomprehensible in a form. So worshiping him in the form of an idol is not appropriate. It is a better way to worship God as just space because he pervades it.

This question has been answered beautifully in Tamil by Pillailokacharya as given below:

He says “பூகத ஜலம்போலே அந்தர்யாமித்வம்; ஆவரண ஜலம்போலே பரத்துவம்; பாற்கடல் போலே வியூகம்; பெருக்காறு போலே விபவம்; அதில் தேங்கின மடுக்கள் போலே அர்ச்சாவதாரம்”. Here பூகத means underground.

An average human being needs an object to represent God if that God is to be denigrated, worshipped, prayed to, exploited by using its name, loved whole-heartedly because It is the ultimate aim of human being’s treasure-hunt in a lifetime etc.,

To think about the God entity as one with a form, with sterling qualities, with the power to eliminate all evils, with the ability to grant wishes, with the ability to save from dangers and finally the ability to grant moksha is a matter of convenience as well as necessity.

It may be possible for some human beings who are highly evolved to understand the impossibility of holding God in a form and they may be able to imagine Him in a formless form. But this is not for all human beings.

So a Godhead becomes necessary as an object to pray to for the humans.

What better form can suit other than a human form because it appears to be the most powerful, successful, intelligent etc., among all the life forms on earth. So highly successful kings, beautiful queens, powerful animals etc., have been accepted as the forms for worshipping God. A lion with human features, a Turtle with human features, a wild boar with human features etc., thus became Godheads. And they serve the purpose very well. Add to this the fact that God had come down in avatars in these forms. You have there the most beautiful system of form worship with its own logic and strength.

Hope my views make sense.
 
I was reading some Zen article which said that eventually one has to even "forget" God.

We cant hold on to anything forever..only he who "forgets" God really knows.
 
I was reading some Zen article which said that eventually one has to even "forget" God.

We cant hold on to anything forever..only he who "forgets" God really knows.

We cannot hold on to anything forever. True. But that is not the point under scrutiny here.

Even in a free fall situation from 100' the hands instinctively clutch the air as if there is something there to arrest the fall. we are discussing about that need and about that nature of human mind.
 
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We cannot hold on to anything forever. True. But that is not the point under scrutiny here.

Even in a free fall situation from 100' the hands instinctively clutches the air as if there is something there to arrest the fall. we are discussing about that need and about that nature of human mind.

Dear Vaagmi ji

I found your earlier post very interesting and informative. But speaking of holding on to god's forms, one can very well do that until the very end, atleast according to Vaishnavite thinking, is it not? As per our Vaishnava understanding, we can pray to Archavataras as much as we want as Archavataras maintain their murti-form well into liberated state, that is, they are available to us for worship, for example, as Ranganatha in Vaikuntha.
 
Sangomji,
Very well written explanation. Why such "gods" happen in Hinduism, greek and Roman mythology? Did it also happen in Zoroastrian, which is somewhat akin to Vedic religion?

Dear Shri Prasad,

IMHO the original people of the rigveda were once part and parcel of the same society from which zoroastrians also come; the former came over to the east of Indus thousands of years earlier than the later zoroastrians. I once read a sufficiently persuasive account of why the vedists split from the rest and had to flee east. It said that the vedists tended to make their "fire-sacrifices" more and more elaborate and complex until it came to the point where the vedists started making different shapes and heights for the sacrificial poles to which the sacrificial animals to different deities were tied. This became a point of dispute between the two groups and since the vedists lived towards the eastern areas they had to flee further east only.

The very close resemblance between the zend avesta and the rigveda, the 'role reversal' of many deities, as also the unique position of Yama/Yima in the two systems of beliefs besides many other aspects, point to the feasibility of the above theory.
 
Dear Vaagmi ji

I found your earlier post very interesting and informative. But speaking of holding on to god's forms, one can very well do that until the very end, atleast according to Vaishnavite thinking, is it not? As per our Vaishnava understanding, we can pray to Archavataras as much as we want as Archavataras maintain their murti-form well into liberated state, that is, they are available to us for worship, for example, as Ranganatha in Vaikuntha.

Dear JRji,

I am happy that that post turned out to be informative. Yes according to vaishnava faith we hold on to Srimannarayana with total faith until the end. But my earlier post is at a different level. It is about people who use their intellect to question everything, who rather believe in the formless existence of God principle. To them I said idol worship is not a stupid ritualistic form of paganism. It has a logic and a strength of its own which is far more matured than those religions where idol worship is blasphemy.

It is a belief in vaishnavism that in the Vaikuntha the muktha jivatma worships srimannarayana in the form in which it wants to worship him. Thus if you as a muktatma wants to worship Him as Sri Ranganatha you will find him that way. It is God's grace that helps you comprehend Him that way. To stress this point you will find that alwar has sung: பச்சைமாமலை போல் மேனி, பவளவாய் கமலச்செங்கண், அச்சுதா! அமரர் ஏரே!! ஆயர்தம் கொழுந்தே!!! என்னும் இச்சுவைத் தவிர யான் போய் இந்திரலோகம் ஆளும் அச்சுவை பெரினும் வேண்டேன் அரங்கமாநகருளானே. Alwar was sure that he would have his Rangan in Vaikuntham when eventually he reached there. LOL.
 
Very well said, Vaagmi ji. Yes, it is true god is available in that form in which the aspirant chooses to worship him.
 
The books that mention these gods also give an idea..

I have been interested in the reverse. By going through the representation of Gods / goddesses in pictures / sculptures etc we can get an idea of how our ancestors of that period used to dress..
 
For Parvati devi, it is said 'Sri Soundarya Lahari' written by Sri Adi Sankara gives a description in detail of how the goddess looks. (But strangely, we find no picture for Parvati devi but we find all pictures for other gods).
 
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Namaste Prasadji

Those are wonderful pictures of Shiva-Parvathi. However have you ever come across a picture of Parvati devi as in holding weapons, seated on an asana by herself? (Such as how Meenakshi/Kamakshi/Lakshmi et al are represented)? There are no details about a worship-able form of Ma Parvathi all by herself.
 
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