Who is Brahmin?

[Seshanu]

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In a recent discourse by Sri Uve. Velukkudi Krishnan, he was asking the above question. This gave many thoughts to me and I was wondering and agreed that no one can be a Brahmin just because by birth.
The Brahmin mentioned in Vedas are not the present day Brahmins.
Hope many will agree on this.

 

[renuka]

In a recent discourse by Sri Uve. Velukkudi Krishnan, he was asking the above question. This gave many thoughts to me and I was wondering and agreed that no one can be a Brahmin just because by birth.
The Brahmin mentioned in Vedas are not the present day Brahmins.
Hope many will agree on this.

Why no one wants to ask the following questions:

1)Who is a Kshatriya?
2)Who is a Vaishya?
3)Who is a Sudra.?

 

[prasad1]

In a recent discourse by Sri Uve. Velukkudi Krishnan, he was asking the above question. This gave many thoughts to me and I was wondering and agreed that no one can be a Brahmin just because by birth.
The Brahmin mentioned in Vedas are not the present day Brahmins.
Hope many will agree on this.

The top right most button called "search". Please use this button to search the archives for the key word, before posting your thread. We have discussed it so many times. Please review them, and if you have some thing original please add to the thread.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/rituals-ceremonies-pujas/7631-you-brahmin.html

 

[zebra16]

In a recent discourse by Sri Uve. Velukkudi Krishnan, he was asking the above question. This gave many thoughts to me and I was wondering and agreed that no one can be a Brahmin just because by birth.
The Brahmin mentioned in Vedas are not the present day Brahmins.
Hope many will agree on this.

When you have thought over and "agreed" that no one can be a brahmin just by birth and that brahmins mentioned in vedas are not the present day brahmins, why do you seek opinion of others? Are you seeking consensus?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Why no one wants to ask the following questions:

1)Who is a Kshatriya?
2)Who is a Vaishya?
3)Who is a Sudra.?

Dear Doc,
Eventhough this forum is open for all, because it carries the name "brahmins" in its URL, the question in OP pops up more often than others. But rest assured, the question of "who are the Kshatriyas" ( or more precisely, "who are the descendants of moovendhars"?) is a raging debate in TN among many caste groups. There is also a qualititative difference between the question raised here and the kshatriya debates. In the case of brahmin, in general, the attempt is to discredit (if one might say) one's brahminness on account of birth. In the case of kshatriyas, the attempt has always been to try and prove one's lineage from moovendhars or other chieftains!

There are also Vaishya discussions in other forums, wherein some claim there are no Vaishyas of tamil origin. As member Ozone brilliantly put here http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/sociology/9147-status-brahmins-global-scenario-reg-3.html, the doubt is always about others's brahminness not their own!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

When you have thought over and "agreed" that no one can be a brahmin just by birth and that brahmins mentioned in vedas are not the present day brahmins, why do you seek opinion of others? Are you seeking consensus?

To be fair, the purpose of this sub-forum is to "share one's knowledge". Therefore member Seshanu perhaps is only sharing his knowledge on what makes one a brahmin

 

[zebra16]

To be fair, the purpose of this sub-forum is to "share one's knowledge". Therefore member Seshanu perhaps is only sharing his knowledge on what makes one a brahmin

I tried for the knowledge in his message, but could not find any!! He said that he "wondered" (or thought over) and came to the conclusion that there were no brahmins in the present day and it appeared that he just wanted confirmation to his conclusion from "many" persons. He did not say how he arrived at the conclusion

 

[PANCHANATHAM CHANDRASEKAR]

Dear Sir,

It does not mean that one is not truly practicing the brahminical customs/rituals is not a brahmin. Though he does not practice the customs/rituals, a brahmin descendent is a brahmin only. The birth is inherited by our forefathers. We have to agree that our forefathers were practicing the true brahminical culture/traditions and customs. So naturally the descendents of their families are brahimins only. There is no question or doubt in that.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sir,

It does not mean that one is not truly practicing the brahminical customs/rituals is not a brahmin. Though he does not practice the customs/rituals, a brahmin descendent is a brahmin only. The birth is inherited by our forefathers. We have to agree that our forefathers were practicing the true brahminical culture/traditions and customs. So naturally the descendents of their families are brahimins only. There is no question or doubt in that.

I feel Brahmins who have not been following Brahmin lifestyle have been there even in the past.
It is not a recent phenomenon.

I remember reading about this in the conversation between Svetaketu and Uddalaka from Chandogya Upanishad..where Uddalaka tells Svetaketu that there are no namesake Brahmanas in their lineage.

The terminology used is BrahmaBandhu(one who does not have the conduct of a Brahmana but only points to Brahmanas as his relatives)

chhAndogya upaniShad 6.1.1 - 6.1.3

Om. shvetaketur hAruNeya Asa, taM ha pitovAca: shvetaketo,
vasa brahmacaryam, na vai, saumya, asmat-kulIno.ananUcya
brahma-bandhur iva bhavatIti 6.1.1

om
shvetaketu: shvetaketu, by name
AruNeya: the grandson of AruNa
Asa ha: there was (once upon a time)
taM: to him
pitA: (his) father
uvAca ha: said
shvetaketo: O shvetaketu
brahmacaryaM: the disciplined life of a celibate student
vasa: live
saumya: dear boy
asmatkulIno: anyone in our family
ananUcya: who does not study (the vedA-s)
brahmabanduH iva: like one who does not have the conduct of
brAhmaNa but only points to the brAhmaNA-s as his relations;
i.e. who is only a brAhmaNa for namesake
na vai: never was
bhavati: there is
iti: thus

Om. Once upon a time there was one Shvetaketu, the grandson
of AruNa. His father (UddAlaka) said to him, "O Shvetaketu,
live the life of a celibate student in the teacher's house.
Dear boy, there never is anyone in our family who does not
study (the vedA-s) and is only a namesake-brAhmaNa".

chhAndogya upaniShad 6.1.1 - 6.1.3

So sir..you are right..Brahmin is a Brahmin by birth no doubt but he might be classified as a BrahmaBandhu.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I feel Brahmins who have not been following Brahmin lifestyle have been there even in the past.
It is not a recent phenomenon.

I remember reading about this in the conversation between Svetaketu and Uddalaka from Chandogya Upanishad..where Uddalaka tells Svetaketu that there are no namesake Brahmanas in their lineage.

The terminology used is BrahmaBandhu(one who does not have the conduct of a Brahmana but only points to Brahmanas as his relatives)



So sir..you are right..Brahmin is a Brahmin by birth no doubt but he might be classified as a BrahmaBandhu.

I do not want to go into depth, if I am correct, this has been discussed earlier also.
Generally, Brahmana is a name generally used to denote a member of one of the four Varnas (Castes).
If one goes in detail - Brahman - refers to the Supreme Self
Brahmin or Brahmana - refers to an individual
Brahma - this refers to the creative aspects of the Universal Consciousness

Perhaps the terminology Brahmin is conceived in English from the Sanskrit termed for Brahmana.
If one goes through our earlier history, Brahmins are those who are engaged in attaining the highest
spiritual knowledge (called Brahma Vidya) through Vedic Studies and have adopted different Sakas
of Vedas. Incidentally, a question may arise, only Brahmins also should read Vedas. It is not so.
There is an exception i.e. Vishwamitra. Generally Brahmin is supposed to be thorough or well-versed
in Vedic facts and features and follow it in day to day practices too viz. Acharam, Anushtanam and
all Nithya Karma activities.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur