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Why many IITians fail to cope with the curriculum after clearing entrance

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mkrishna100

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Why many IITians fail to cope with the curriculum after clearing entrance

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...get&utm_medium=Int_Ref&utm_campaign=TOI_AShow


NEW DELHI: The exit of 73 students from the Indian Institute of Technology at Roorkee because of poor grades has come as a rude shock, contrasting sharply with the typically celebratory narrative around the country's premier engineering schools. But IITs across the country point out that this is merely reflective of a bigger problem that's been building up over the past few years —increasing number of students unable to cope with the curriculum.

The coaching factories are prime suspects for the drop in quality but exhaustion and family pressure also play key roles. IITs take series of steps to help the struggling students.

Despite these efforts, almost all of them are forced to nudge poor performers out of the system.

IITs, both old and new, blame much of this on the cram schools that prepare students for the admission test, such as those in Kota, Rajasthan. "The average standard of students is going down," said Manindra Agrawal, dean of faculty affairs at IIT-Kanpur, one of the older schools. "Primarily, it is due to the spoon-feeding by the coaching institutes to crack the entrance exam."

COACHING PRACTICES


To be sure, IIT-Roorkee's faculty is still trying to understand why the number of expulsions shot up to this extent—an 18-fold jump from four last year. But director Pradipta Banerji feels it would be wrong to put the onus of responsibility on the students.

"The students are not to be blamed as they have been coached by the coaching institutes just to crack the JEE (joint entrance exam) rather than focusing on knowledge," said director Pradipta Banerji.

Akash Keshav Singh, now at IITGandhinagar, went to Kota to prepare for the entrance exam. The Rajasthan town has become famous for being home to dozens of coaching schools dedicated to this. The prevailing environment is intense, he said.

"We were expected to study for about 15 hours a day," Singh said. "There was always a fear of losing the seat at this institute (the coaching school) if we did not fare well in the assessments. There was always constant pressure from the institute and society to perform. But I am glad now that I could crack the exam." Does this drop in quality mean that the selection system needs to be changed? While the process has undergone several changes in the past few years, more needs to be done, said Rohin Kapoor, education practice director at Deloitte India.

"The entrance exam system followed by the IITs is old and archaic," he said. "It is high time that this system should evolve and broaden to include subjective questioning, psychometric tests and case study evaluation."

WHAT IITS ARE DOING


Are the IITs doing enough to make sure weak students don't fall through the cracks? The schools say they are. Expulsions are the last resort after a series of interventions aimed at trying to get poor performers to improve. These include warnings, getting parents involved, peer group counselling and special assistance. "There are enormous efforts made and help provided by IITs before terminating these students," said Rajendra Singh, dean, undergraduate studies, IIT-Kharagpur. "We even tell our students to take a break for a year and then come back to join the course." The school asked four students to leave last year for poor grades. IIT-Kanpur has also been weeding out students who don't make the cut. "Despite bringing the minimum requirement to pass further down, we still land up expelling about 10 students every year," Agrawal said.

IIT-Delhi sees seven-eight students exiting every year. "With the number of IITs going up and the old IITs expanding more seats, there is a huge gap in the merit of the top students compared to the students at the bottom," said Anurag Sharma, dean of academics at IIT-Delhi.

PRESSURE TACTICS

Family and peer pressure also play in role in forcing students with little aptitude to join the IITs. "There are many such students who have entered the IITs with zero interest in engineering. This is another category of students that quickly exits," said IIT-Gandhinagar director Sudhir Jain. One such person left after being pressured by his family to enter the school. He's now looking to pursue an acting career.

Stress and mental exhaustion are other reasons why some students can't cope. After two-three years of relentless studying to get into an IIT, many just don't have the energy to handle studies. "The students are almost burnt out when they enter IITs," said IIT-Roorkee's Banerji.

"They have been coached and pushed by parents even though they may not have the aptitude for engineering. As a result of rote learning, the analytical skills of these students have drastically fallen."

RL Trikha, director of FIITJEE, said his entrance coaching schools impart a holistic education, but admitted that some coaching institutes aren't following this method.

"There are many coaching institutes that literally lock up students for months," he said. "It is a process of cramming that is followed there. This results in wrong students getting selected. These students are trained only to crack the exam." FIITJEE has 25,000 on its rolls, he said.
 
Ultimately students failing to perform at IITs is traced to coaching institutes,Poor quality of students entering IITs with no aptitude for engg and parental pressures.

No IIT admits that their teaching staff is worthless and most do not have competent professor on their rolls.

Who enters the academic profession in india? mostly rejects who are not wanted by industry and who have nowhere to go.

After post graduation which they do due to failure in campus job placements ,they end up as research types and then become lecturers ending up as professors after

ten or fifteen years. There are many who are first generation learners in their families and are also quota students and job seekers.

What type of students are these likely to produce with their background and knowledge.?

No sense in blaming students. Get rid of the academic dead wood in Top IITs . Things might improve
 
Ultimately students failing to perform at IITs is traced to coaching institutes,Poor quality of students entering IITs with no aptitude for engg and parental pressures.

No IIT admits that their teaching staff is worthless and most do not have competent professor on their rolls.

Who enters the academic profession in india? mostly rejects who are not wanted by industry and who have nowhere to go.

After post graduation which they do due to failure in campus job placements ,they end up as research types and then become lecturers ending up as professors after

ten or fifteen years.
There are many who are first generation learners in their families and are also quota students and job seekers.

What type of students are these likely to produce with their background and knowledge.?

No sense in blaming students. Get rid of the academic dead wood in Top IITs . Things might improve

I have bold faced a few sentences by Shri Krish44-ji
It is easier to blame the teachers (I was one in one of the IIT's (K) many years ago - I have taught (or still teaching) for the last forty two years) - We (those who decide to go for an academic profession) are easy targets of ridicule.

Instead of blaming any one, what needs to be done is how to inculcate learning methods to students at IIT's - if they are not already done so, Teaching freshmen to plan their time, setting aside a time to study, study in groups, seek help if one is lost. Freshmen are still young (17, 18 years old and living in a dorm for the first time) . Many can survive - but a few need some extra help Even with this, many may fail. But at least everything has been done to reduce the pressure faced by students. ( example at MIT http://web.mit.edu/firstyear/2019/advising/roles.html https://deans.caltech.edu/Services/AcademicSupport
http://alac.rpi.edu/update.do?catcenterkey=3 - One need not follow/ape what other universities do - but help the students try to reach their potential).
 
Krishji, everything said and done, the IIT teachers are still the best in the country. That is because the teachers in other engg colleges are even more worthless. What you have said is actually true of most unis in India, but the cream of the crop who choose to become teachers in India go to IIT. Where else would they go? I personally know a few IIT professors who have become IIT toppers themselves.

In any case, the teacher quality does not explain the ongoing deterioration of student performance. Note that teacher tenure is much longer than student tenure.
 
Attracting the best as faculty is on the rise in IIT's with increase in remuneration compared to Government colleges...I have known many such lodestars in IIT's who are a source of inspiration to students...Especially those with a stint in the Industry or those who have worked in major research projects are always in demand!
 
Most students face problems in the first year.

In the first year , many courses are of non engg faculty such as maths,basics like workshop practice ,basics of electrical,electronics or civil engg with lots of tutorials.

The academics who conduct these courses are lecturers who are fresh inductees or those considered not good enough to take better courses ,research scholars[mostly these are incharge of tutorials etc if the course is by chance

senior faculty]. Most seniors would like to take specialised high level courses in third or final year. For first two years, students are on their own learn enough to get

by.Most celebrate their freedom from rigorous school and coaching classes and live it up. most IITs are located in metros which have their own attractions for

youngsters away from home.In fact , I cannot remember the any outstanding person who taught me in engg program in first two years in elite institution I attended.

I do remember all the films I saw bunking many of them which were more interesting than the classes conducted by these persons. I can think of only three or four

who did justice to the courses they conducted. These are even after their retirement fondly remembered
 
I have an IITian in my family. Just a decade before, he did got his post graduation in IIT Chennai.
Now,he excels in his area of research with a couple innovative findings leading to obtaining pattern for his company. In his view the climate within IITs have had a much change within the past one decade with the arrival of a section of students with affiliation to caste. religion and politics. This has polluted the atmosphere which was conducive for study and research,hitherto been.
 
hi

see more details in tamil.......

[h=1]மன அழுத்தம் காரணமாக படிப்பை பாதியில் நிறுத்திய 4,400 ஐ.ஐ.டி, என்.ஐ.டி மாணவர்கள்[/h]




[h=1]dinamani.....[/h]
 
I have an IITian in my family. Just a decade before, he did got his post graduation in IIT Chennai.
Now,he excels in his area of research with a couple innovative findings leading to obtaining pattern for his company. In his view the climate within IITs have had a much change within the past one decade with the arrival of a section of students with affiliation to caste. religion and politics. This has polluted the atmosphere which was conducive for study and research,hitherto been.
hi

yes ...this is true....this is the situation in all major universities/reputed institutions......i did my ph.d from delhi university some 2 decades ago....

admission to PG/Ph,d always tough in delhi university...now more politically corrupted...
 
Why stress on IITs only? In many educational institutions - engineering colleges, management institutes and career oriented institutes too, students drop out, roughly 3 to 5%. For IITs. admission by a tough, competitive entrance test; not sure whether relaxation in marks is given for reserve category students, but they are given special coaching in the first year. As an IITian I would have thought that though the environment is challenging, passing exams must be easy because of continuous assessment through regular periodicals and weightage for the different evaluations. Univ students are judged by just one exam.

In management institutes roughly 10% of students leave without completing the course despite paying substantial fees 1 to 4 lakh per annum. Some institutes collect two year fees in advance to minimise their losses.

Instead of blaming the coaching institutes, real and media assigned causes must be analysed for a workable solution. Leaving in the middle is more serious because a another student is blocked in addition to wastage of resources.
 
IITs may be a good institutions for post graduation or research.

They can get rid of under graduate courses and become centres for PG and research.

They can leave graduation levels to regional NITs or univ .

Anyway we are mass producing graduate level talent all over the country with no future for them

why not leave IITs to do better things they think they are capable of?
 
An IIT Roorkee Student Explains The Injustice Of Expelling 73 Students

An IIT Roorkee Student Explains The Injustice Of Expelling 73 Students For Under 5 CGPA

Right from dorm-room allocations to course allotment, down to this cut-throat rat-race inducing regulation, their judgment is clear. CGPA is the only criteria which the institute cares for. In the packaged semester system, courses are declared redundant unless a minimum number of students opt for it. The students obviously opt for electives that are scoring, irrespective of what they would like to learn or what interests them, because ultimately it is the score that is going to make them market-worthy products of the institute machinery. Without any remedial classes or ones that enable students educated in vernacular languages to cope with the English medium of instruction, this machinery has chosen to just get rid of those who cannot or do not want to participate in the mad race. Mad precisely because this single minded obsession with the race does not allow for exploration or innovation but, to invoke a popular image, mandates following the crowd like sheep.

http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2015/07/iit-roorkee-expels-73-students/
 
An IIT Roorkee Student Explains

[h=1]An IIT Roorkee Student Explains: Of The 73 Expelled, 90% Students Were From Reserved Category[/h]By Abhishek Jha:
A student from IIT Roorkee compiled statistics on the expulsion of 73 students from the institute. The student’s argument is that if the policy of expelling students below the cumulative grade of 5 were to continue, it would- in conjunction with the relative grading system- lead to expulsion of a total of 30% students by the time a batch of students completes its degree. Another shocking statistics by the same student, who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of reprisal from the institute, reveals that “out of the 73 students, 31 were from ST category, 23 from SC category, 4 from PD, 8 from OBC & 7 from general category (90.4% students are from the reserved category).” While we discussed previously how the very idea of expulsion on the criterion of grades is flawed, here we seek to address the revealed statistics in the context of caste.

http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2015/07/iit-roorkee-73-students-expulsion-caste/
 
In case of Roorkee IIT, parents or guardian and the student sign undertaking that for continuing registration minimum credits criteria must be met each year. The IIT has given a table listing minimum credits for all programmes.

There is pressure on the institute (not from govt, but social activists) to dilute the present system of grades.
 
In delhi we follow CBSE or ICSE at higher seconday level .

When students from slums belonging to reserved category fail or unable to cope, they drop out and go to open school and pass in slightly longer time with reduced

standards to get a higher secondary certificate.

We must help reserved category students to become engineers by having a lighter work schedule and lesser number of subjects. any way more than half the papers

they take , they may never use the knowledge acquired anytime in life. Many of the reserved category students would have studied in hindi or regional languages in

higher secondary. Language becomes a barrier for them. We can have a relook at the curriculam and language of teaching to make it lighter and make the course five

years if necessary. We should look for affirmative action instead of expelling them from IITs.
 
Solution must not dilute IIT standards and norms, but provide alternate platforms for slow learners and less stringent syllabus and different evaluation systems.
 
by opening so many IITs without infrastructure or qualified staff we have already diluted the brand name and standards.

so why shout about standards?

In work life , reserved category get treated differently as they become a different cadre for career advancement in govt.

private sector anyway shuns them .

There is a bias among academics regarding reserved category. They pluck them with a vengeance. govt should decree that there can be no expulsions of reserved category.

If IIT academic professors are good ,let them prove it by bringing up the reserved category by using their teaching skills. They are drawing fat salaries and most should

earn them
 
There is a bias among academics regarding reserved category. They pluck them with a vengeance. govt should decree that there can be no expulsions of reserved category.

If IIT academic professors are good ,let them prove it by bringing up the reserved category by using their teaching skills. They are drawing fat salaries and most should

earn them

To an extent this is true .I know some Professiors in IITs have said that people in Reserved Category need some extra care and attention as they are slow leaners but if guided properly they are ready to work hard and improve but they feel that not all Professors are interested in doing some extra work in guiding them and that is the reason why many do not shine well even if they are successful in entering IITs .
 
In my opinion, there is no "dilution" as such in IITs. The reason you see what you are seeing is because every part of the selection process has been meddled with to the point that an average man's average son/daughter should be able to get in (yes, this means good people are NOT getting in easily).

The problem is that IIT was not meant for an ordinary student. The same has now been extended to CAT and the IIMs. These entrances have become largely useless, because anyone can get coatched for the same.
 
In my opinion, there is no "dilution" as such in IITs. The reason you see what you are seeing is because every part of the selection process has been meddled with to the point that an average man's average son/daughter should be able to get in (yes, this means good people are NOT getting in easily).

The problem is that IIT was not meant for an ordinary student. The same has now been extended to CAT and the IIMs. These entrances have become largely useless, because anyone can get coatched for the same.
There is a mindset that top class education is meant only for tamil brahmin ambi or privileged classes from elite schools.

when ordinary people from average household are breaching the well preserved domain of the upper crust, there is resentment.

All should have access to quality education -why not?

Similarly IIMs entrance being broad based to provide access to graduates other than engg -One can see the revolt. Cannot others become good managers -why

engineers alone?

If some under privileged thru coaching makes a mark, why feel threatened? they also require oppurtunities to come up in life.

It is time to act less brahminic and have an open mind and give access to good education to all
 
krish44 said:
There is a mindset that top class education is meant only for tamil brahmin ambi or privileged classes from elite schools.

No, this is not the problem. The problem is that we seem to collectively consider marks in exam as merit, when in fact they are poor indicators of any kind of academic aptitude. What this means is that your JEE score may actually be a measure of your mediocrity rather than your aptitude.....

krish44 said:
when ordinary people from average household are breaching the well preserved domain of the upper crust, there is resentment.

That is because everyone wants to get in. The problem again is that of awareness and societal backwardness. A good student is going to do well anywhere, IIT or otherwise. But people tend to go for the quick and easy path to "success".

krish44 said:
All should have access to quality education -why not?

Indeed. Why not? We do, however, have a resource crunch. OTOH....there should be provisions for people to educate themselves. As you know, self study is the best study. :)

krish44 said:
Similarly IIMs entrance being broad based to provide access to graduates other than engg -One can see the revolt. Cannot others become good managers -why

engineers alone?

Agree. I have never believed degree matters much. It is your mind's ability or willingness to learn that defines your aptitude.

krish44 said:
If some under privileged thru coaching makes a mark, why feel threatened? they also require oppurtunities to come up in life.

I feel, previleged or not, coaching should not be there. I know this because I am amongst a minority as small as Parsees in India who went through all of his education being open caste AND without coaching of any sort whatsoever, in an age where parents cannot imagine sending children for education without coaching at all levels (matriculation, graduate, post graduate, etc.).

Here's the problem - You can be trained (wherein you will know only what someone else understands), or you can learn yourself, on your terms, and your conditions. The second breed has come to zero in the present age. Because, to learn and understand, and to master, one needs to make mistakes and see what the mistake implies. Mistakes being unacceptable in today's entrance exam scenario, this method of learning has reached it's nadir, thus reducing quality across engineering disciplines in institutes that include IITs (note: A similar decline is not yet observed where coaching has not had a significant effect yet: BSc/BCom/BA....).

As for opportunities to come up? What does IIT have to do with that? Opportunities come up everywhere, one just needs to have faith. These institutes of national importance for research and teaching were not established to fulfil personal aspirations - they were meant to fill a national gap. The nation must come before any personal objective, and this is what is being ignored when it comes to decisions regarding education in India.

krish44 said:
It is time to act less brahminic and have an open mind and give access to good education to all

Indeed. But how do you solve the problem of marks equivalency between boards, subjective project based analysis, etc.?

How do you solve the problem of interdisciplinary education wherein a candidate trained multidisciplinary may do well in the laboratory but never do well in an entrance test?

All complex questions with complex answers....
 
There is a mindset that top class education is meant only for tamil brahmin ambi or privileged classes from elite schools.

This was long long ago...The citadels have been crushed to smithereens...These are no longer elite...All and sundry are studying there

Why don't you see how many ambis are studying in Madras Medical college, Kilpauk Medical college, and Anna University....They will be in single digits...You are living in a make believe world..
 
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