Why tamils have problems when they are settled outside tamilnadu?

[GOPI.S]

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Many of the cities of India have people from other parts of the country; most of them may not speak the local language. For example, CHENNAI has a majority of telugue speaking people and if you take, there is considerable amount of telegus spread throughout tamilnadu. Their presence can be visibly felt in cities like coimbatore where they are a dominant business community. Similarly, malayalees and kanndigas. Now it is the turn of north indians. In spite of their presence they never make any noise on the social, political scenes exccepting celebrating their festivals without any attention from others. But take the case of tamilians settled either in bangalore, mumbai and delhi. They always make their presence felt in the social and political areas. Not only that they create problem for themselves and to others. The same conclusion can be extended to countries like Srilanka, Malaysia, singapore, Canada, European Countries etc.,where tamils have settled. When others not belonging to particular land live peacefully and get their things done through the local parties, why tamils are always engaged in unwanted activities and always make a show of their presence wherever they go. Requires debate

 

[renuka]

Many of the cities of India have people from other parts of the country; most of them may not speak the local language. For example, CHENNAI has a majority of telugue speaking people and if you take, there is considerable amount of telegus spread throughout tamilnadu. Their presence can be visibly felt in cities like coimbatore where they are a dominant business community. Similarly, malayalees and kanndigas. Now it is the turn of north indians. In spite of their presence they never make any noise on the social, political scenes exccepting celebrating their festivals without any attention from others. But take the case of tamilians settled either in bangalore, mumbai and delhi. They always make their presence felt in the social and political areas. Not only that they create problem for themselves and to others. The same conclusion can be extended to countries like Srilanka, Malaysia, singapore, Canada, European Countries etc.,where tamils have settled. When others not belonging to particular land live peacefully and get their things done through the local parties, why tamils are always engaged in unwanted activities and always make a show of their presence wherever they go. Requires debate

Are you Tamilian?

Becos you want a debate!

So let the debate begin!

Tamizhan Vazhga!

 

[krish44]

Gopiji
we are what we are.

we do not like anyone to tell us how we should be.

however we like to tell others how they should be. we like to look down on them if they do not accept our

suggestion/advice. we criticise them that they are not like us.

all this because we are tamilians and we are like that only.lol

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Tamilians are living in thousands in places like Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi, Nagpur and in countries like Singapore, Malaysia, Sri Lanka etc.

Generally, Tamilians are living very peacefully in all these places. Due to ethnic problem in Sri Lanka, ill treatment in Malaysia and group clash in Singapore, Tamilians have to fight to prove their legitimacy.

Tamilians have developed a good work culture outside Tamil Nadu.

Sri Lankan Tamilians are doing very well in Australia.

Due to ethnic problem in Sri Lanka, Sri Lankan Tamilians who are living in other countries are forced to come to streets to fight for their rights in Sri Lanka.

Recently, in the Maharashtra Assembly Election, a Tamilian has become an MLA from one of the Mumbai constituencies as a BJP candidate.

Overall, Tamilians are not trouble shooters.

 

[Vaagmi]

Hi Gopi,

Your words:

In spite of their presence they never make any noise on the social, political scenes exccepting celebrating their festivals without any attention from others. But take the case of tamilians settled either in bangalore, mumbai and delhi. They always make their presence felt in the social and political areas. Not only that they create problem for themselves and to others. The same conclusion can be extended to countries like Srilanka, Malaysia, singapore, Canada, European Countries etc.,where tamils have settled.

Could you be a little more explicit? Like what kind of trouble these people make in their place of settlement like1. bangalore 2. mumbai and 3. delhi. What are the social and political manifestations of these settlers etc., so that the discussion can become meaningful.

 

[GOPI.S]

All over the world malayalees are there. But nowhere do you find they ask for a separate identity or participation in local politics or asking or a separate land etc., In fact they get their things done more effectively without having any such forums much better than the tamils. The living example is the middle east where u find how they get alongwith everyone and at the same time never get a bad name either from the local admn. or from world community. You find the same is not happening in singapore where the tamils outlive others in number but have earned a bad name (in the recent riots at singapore). Why this happen?

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

Many of the cities of India have people from other parts of the country; most of them may not speak the local language. For example, CHENNAI has a majority of telugue speaking people and if you take, there is considerable amount of telegus spread throughout tamilnadu. Their presence can be visibly felt in cities like coimbatore where they are a dominant business community. Similarly, malayalees and kanndigas. Now it is the turn of north indians. In spite of their presence they never make any noise on the social, political scenes exccepting celebrating their festivals without any attention from others. But take the case of tamilians settled either in bangalore, mumbai and delhi. They always make their presence felt in the social and political areas. Not only that they create problem for themselves and to others. The same conclusion can be extended to countries like Srilanka, Malaysia, singapore, Canada, European Countries etc.,where tamils have settled. When others not belonging to particular land live peacefully and get their things done through the local parties, why tamils are always engaged in unwanted activities and always make a show of their presence wherever they go. Requires debate

Honorable Gopi sir,

imho your viewpoints seem mostly perceptional than real. i have lived in more than one major city and minor city of india and abroad where tamils have a significant population. i am aware of this feeling that tamilians are uncomfortable elsewhere but it is not true. tamilians do not face any extraordinary issues excepting those common to anyone living in regions where their mother-tongue is not the language. nevertheless tamilians adjust and adapt to their surroundings faster than others. they quickly learn the regional language and become comfortable. furthermore they easily mingle with others in their cultural activities and become one with them.

there are of course those few tamilians who face issues mostly because of their own self-making. these are those who boast about some imaginary greatness of tamilian language, a deceptive feeling instilled in them way back in tamilnadu by tamil zealots. these are those who wont keep their mouth shut and always want to blow their tamil trumpets unsolicited and causing embarrassment to their own selves. they need to realize that they cause immense irritation to others who are least interested in the subject first of all. no language is superior or inferior to others. every language has its own literature, lexicon, poets, greatness etc and like tamilians everyone are proud about their language. however tamilians are the only ones who attempt to impress upon others while others consider it unethical to discuss such topics. the non-tamilian-population are under no obligation to acknowledge nor appreciate any false-greatness of tamil language. they have more important issues/matters to pay attention to.

in places like bangalore, tamilians have been living in great number even before bangalore was acceded to karnataka and made the state capital. there have been minor friction between tamilians and kannadigas and a race to establish supremacy. while tamilians humbly accepted the fact that bangalore is no longer a tamilian city, the kannadigas resigned to the fact that they cannot fight against a significant number. hence a mutual truce.

there is one issue which of course is uniquely faced by tamilians who live outside tamilnadu and that is the ease with which other non-hindi-speaking-south-indians speak hindi while tamilians are blank in hindi. while others are resigned to the unwritten law that hindi is national language (which is an entirely different debate altogether, where no conclusion has ever been arrived at nor the issue resolved), tamilians are reluctant to accept it. especially in bangalore, where even tamilians who are born and raised in bangalore, speak hindi fluently, tamilains feel lost and ostracized in a crowd where hindi is the common language of communication/conversation. here again tamilians are left with no option but to learn hindi and mingle with others.

 

[tbs]

hi

tamilians are little peculiar than others....malayalees are very well united....gujus are doing well

USA...even telugus are doing well and well network in USA... i agreed some points....sometimes

we feel more superiority than others...i think...some genetical characters in our blood...lol

 

[vgane]

In Delhi I found the Tamil Sangam doing a good job in bringing all Tamils together...The Tamils do get together for important cultural events ...There are good number of Tamil schools, though their number is dwindling

Even in Mumbai, Tamils are not facing any problem as such..They do speak Hindi & Marathi...I have found many Tamil families participate in Ganesh festivals with rigor & religious fervor..

In Singapore too Tamils are living with other communities for ages & they are mostly peace loving..

I found the Mauritius Tamils well integrated in to main stream...They speak the local languages Creole & French too

Tamils have been traveling across the world since several thousands of years & have established colonies! Tamils are a warrior cum mercantile class!

The recent problems are a manifestation of the strife in Sri Lanka by the Sinhalese against the local Tamils & the independent Dravida politics of the TN mainland!

The problems arose in these parts when other communities resisted the separatist (read LTTE) movement by the TN political parties...

I remember the 80's when the DMK chief in his hibernation tried to provoke the local Tamils in Mumbai which the local Shiv Sena objected

A bit of calm & political sagacity in Sri Lanka & resolving the Tamils problems will go a long way in building bridges of the Tamils with the rest!

And Tamils will be better off by learning Hindi! No need of any animosity against the language!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

It was a clever ploy by a rationalist leader to divide Tamil speaking Bs and NBs and he met with great success. As a result, most of the NBs are doubtful of Bs till date. Dravidian parties further divided NBs on caste lines to stay in power. This division spreads among Tamilians irrespective of place of living.

Which State had a Malayalee as CM. Telugu people are very powerful, Some time back, I have come across an article published in a Dalit magazine that in the last DMK Govt., there were more than 50 MLAs from Telugu speaking community, spreading over all parties.

Only in TN, you can see non-native people floating political parties.

The dis-integration among Tamilians is very high, primarily due to the misunderstanding between Bs and NBs, consequent upon the clever act of non-Tamil rationalists.

 

[renuka]

I feel Tamliians should learn to be more assertive.

Most of the while Tamilians tend to only speak up and stand up for all the wrong reasons.

Its high time Tamilians stand up and say "I wanna scream and shout and let it all out and scream and shout and let it all out!"



But what ever said and done..Tamilians are straight forward..some other state Indians can be very cunning.

So its not as if other state Indians are all Unnum Theriyadu Papa types.


So I repeat Tamizhan Vazhga!

 

[JR]

I wonder why the OP has such a feeling about Tamilians. It is said in Tamizh, "Vandaarai Vaazha Vaikkum Thamizhagam" - we are known to be people who invite and make others live in prosperity and peace in TN. Whereas we go to any place, Bangalore, Bombay, even Kerala, we meet with hostility. This only makes me think others except Tamilians are in general jealous of Tamilians' good working ability due to which they take-up good jobs and thus want them out in every way possible! So this negativity around Tamilians' manners are painted on them by others and is not true!

 

[sangom]

I think Tamilians have a little less ability to completely homogenize themselves seamlessly with the cultures and practices of other areas. In this regard, I remember one incident; an aged official from Madras was transferred to Kanpur and since it was on a good promotion, he came to Kanpur. But fight from day one he was grumbling about many things he could get in Madras easily but were unavailable in Kanpur in those days (1960's). Finally, one day another Tamilian staff, who grew up in Bihar, etc., told him that "Lavkee" or Coraikkaay was a good, tasty vegetable and this transferred officer blew his top, exclaiming "eating Chorakkaay will make you a Shudran!". Thereafter we stopped mingling with that officer but he somehow managed a re-transfer to Madras very soon.

Second point is the tendency to jut out with Tamil language by creating Tamil Sangam, Tamil Associations, etc., even when there are only very limited numbers, and this creates the feeling that the Tamils are very parochial, in the minds of the local people.

 

[GOPI.S]

Dear Brahmachriji,
Thank u for your reply and your assessments are more or less correct. It is both a boon and burden for tamils to carry the thought that their language and culture are superior. Once again thank u.
with regards
GOPI

 

[mkrishna100]

I think Tamilians have a little less ability to completely homogenize themselves seamlessly with the cultures and practices of other areas. In this regard, I remember one incident; an aged official from Madras was transferred to Kanpur and since it was on a good promotion, he came to Kanpur. But fight from day one he was grumbling about many things he could get in Madras easily but were unavailable in Kanpur in those days (1960's). Finally, one day another Tamilian staff, who grew up in Bihar, etc., told him that "Lavkee" or Coraikkaay was a good, tasty vegetable and this transferred officer blew his top, exclaiming "eating Chorakkaay will make you a Shudran!". Thereafter we stopped mingling with that officer but he somehow managed a re-transfer to Madras very soon.

Second point is the tendency to jut out with Tamil language by creating Tamil Sangam, Tamil Associations, etc., even when there are only very limited numbers, and this creates the feeling that the Tamils are very parochial, in the minds of the local people.

Sangom Sir

When you talk of Tamilians due to refer only to Tamil Brahmins or does it also include NB Tamilians ?

 

[sangom]

Sangom Sir

When you talk of Tamilians due to refer only to Tamil Brahmins or does it also include NB Tamilians ?

Krishna Sir,

My experience is mostly with Tamil Brahmins. But in respect of language, both Brahmins and non-brahmins can be included.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I have stayed in New Delhi for over 10 years.There are a number of DTEA Schools(DELHI Tamil Education Association). Before I landed in Delhi,DTEA Schools were ranked as one among the Best Schools in New DELHI.
I admitted all my children in DTEA School,Modibag.One of my daughters commented after attending the School that,if a parent wants to spoil the future of his ward,he should admit his ward in DTEA Motibag.
When I made enquiries,I was shocked.The standard of all DTEA Schools have deteriorated over a period of years .Earlier all tamilians were admitting their wards only in DTEA Schools and many of the past students from these Schools are holding high positions.
Now no tamilian parent is willing to admit their ward in these Schools.If you analyze the reason for such deterioration,you may find out how Dravidian Parties after coming to power has interfered with all well established instituitions.

 

[kunjuppu]

I have stayed in New Delhi for over 10 years.There are a number of DTEA Schools(DELHI Tamil Education Association). Before I landed in Delhi,DTEA Schools were ranked as one among the Best Schools in New DELHI.
I admitted all my children in DTEA School,Modibag.One of my daughters commented after attending the School that,if a parent wants to spoil the future of his ward,he should admit his ward in DTEA Motibag.
When I made enquiries,I was shocked.The standard of all DTEA Schools have deteriorated over a period of years .Earlier all tamilians were admitting their wards only in DTEA Schools and many of the past students from these Schools are holding high positions.
Now no tamilian parent is willing to admit their ward in these Schools.If you analyze the reason for such deterioration,you may find out how Dravidian Parties after coming to power has interfered with all well established instituitions.

dear sir, DTEA schools were subsidized by the tamil nadu government. it was a cozy arrangement between madrasis working in central govt and tamil nadu (almost all brahmins at that time). i do not know, if any of the servants of these people, many who came from rural tamil nadu, had a chance to attend these schools for their children.

any school which receives subsidies from the tamil nadu govt, it is only fair, reflect the policies of the government, and i would guess, that the hitherto 'not part of the game' crowd, like the lower caste tamils of delhi, would now be happy to be in a school where tamil language is also taught.

i am not sure about how sies of bombay is funded. again how the tambrams of mumbai of today view it.

again with the passage of time, very few tambrams are emigrating to either bombay or delhi, in the manner in which we did, in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. their own children of these cities, have a more cosmopolitan outlook, and do not feel the need to attend their children in language oriented parochial schools - that is my feeling.

today's what is left of tambrams of tamil nadu outside of chennai, have their sights on the west, or bangalore/hyderabad.

the world has changed. for better or for worse, though i believe, for the former. thank you.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Kunjuppu,
I do not know whether you have stayed in New Delhi in the recent past.After the Dravidian parties came to power in Tamilnadu,they wanted to extend their influence on Tamilians living in
other major cities of India.Influential politicians from Tamilnadu started driving poor tamils owning little agricultural land mostly from areas near about Salem.There was exodus of illiterate rural Tamilians
from Salem to New Delhi and settling in urban slums paying bribe money to local leaders.
During 80s,every house in New Delhi started engaging these tamil people as domestic helps.Wards of these persons started joining all DTEA schools and that was the main reason for parents who can afford taking away their children from DTEA Schools and putting them to other well known institutions.While most of these Boys dropped from School at some stage,a few boys have really come up in life and I commend them.
Once I had to meet one Rajya Sabha DMK member in Tamilnadu guest house.His name is MISA Ganesan.When I asked him about these unfortunate people from Salem and why Tamilnadu Govt should not extend assistance to these people,he informed me that he is not aware of such people living in New Delhi.He proudly announced that he is yet to make his maiden speech in Rajya Sabah though he has been MP for the past two years.
My sister in law and brother in laws wife were teachers in DTEA School.They were getting their Salaries (now Pension) from Govt Of New Delhi.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjuppu,
I do not know whether you have stayed in New Delhi in the recent past.After the Dravidian parties came to power in Tamilnadu,they wanted to extend their influence on Tamilians living in
other major cities of India.Influential politicians from Tamilnadu started driving poor tamils owning little agricultural land mostly from areas near about Salem.There was exodus of illiterate rural Tamilians
from Salem to New Delhi and settling in urban slums paying bribe money to local leaders.
During 80s,every house in New Delhi started engaging these tamil people as domestic helps.Wards of these persons started joining all DTEA schools and that was the main reason for parents who can afford taking away their children from DTEA Schools and putting them to other well known institutions.While most of these Boys dropped from School at some stage,a few boys have really come up in life and I commend them.
Once I had to meet one Rajya Sabha DMK member in Tamilnadu guest house.His name is MISA Ganesan.When I asked him about these unfortunate people from Salem and why Tamilnadu Govt should not extend assistance to these people,he informed me that he is not aware of such people living in New Delhi.He proudly announced that he is yet to make his maiden speech in Rajya Sabah though he has been MP for the past two years.
My sister in law and brother in laws wife were teachers in DTEA School.They were getting their Salaries (now Pension) from Govt Of New Delhi.

dear sir,

thank you. i have never lived in new delhi and all that i know of dtea aka madrasi schools, have been through classmates at my college (45+ years ago) and from the newspapers.

i also believe that it is always 'fashionable' for people reaching a certain age, decrying the destruction of a world that they knew and cherish.

none of the above may be true for dtea. but i remember reading that dtea was taken over by the delhi govt. i am hoping that the erstwhile tambram teachers of dtea, welcomed the poor rural salem children, instead of expressing dismay or exhibiting prejudices, which though may not be overt, will easily be detected by those against whom these were targetted.

admittedly they would have had to put extra efforts towards these kids, but then had they given some thought, they would have appreciated the handicaps these kids faced, vis a vis, the brahmin children, who came atleast from a middle class household, and with a family intent on education.

i always feel that caste has been the bane of our society, and it is a sad reflection, that whenever lower caste children or even adults, are admitted to previously exclusive or elitist organizations, they would have to experience a level of prejudice and discrimination, that not even the blackest indian would ever face in the usa or even in a racist europe.

please do not treat this note as anything personal against you. i am just reading in between lines your post, and feel completely disheartened, that after 67+ years of freedom, the weakest of the weak of india, still dont have a fair or fighting chance to make it in this world. all due to the prejudices and machinations of the castes above them.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I agree with Mr.Kunjuppu that people from lower castes suffer a lot in educational institutions while studying with boys coming from well to do families.It is also a fact that people( some and not all) who get special consideration from government with regard to appointment and promotions do harass and misbehave with people who are subordinates to them in the present cadre but seniors in previous cadres
As far as west is concerned,all is not green.I have entered USA a number of times in previous 5 years of my stay in USA.
In my recent trip from India to USA,I had to encounter a racist white skinned American.His behaviour to me was nothing but polite-so much so I started thinking whether I should continue to stay in USA
at the cost of self respect.Individual experience vary from person to person.I have come across number of white Americans and they all behaved well.This experience could be an exception.

 

[renuka]

i always feel that caste has been the bane of our society, and it is a sad reflection, that whenever lower caste children or even adults, are admitted to previously exclusive or elitist organizations, they would have to experience a level of prejudice and discrimination, that not even the blackest indian would ever face in the usa or even in a racist europe.

Dear Kunjs,

I agree that caste is a bane to society but I read recently that Kim Kardashian faced racism in Austria when she went there for a function.

She is married to Kanye West(African American) and she was taunted for that in Austria for a function where she was the guest of honour.

An Austrian comedian blackened his face and started calling out to her "Hey Kim I am your husband Kanye West"

Then even in the aeroplane that too 1st class section..her baby started crying and a white Austrian woman used the N word and said "OMG this is her N baby with Kanye West..now how do I get this N baby to shut up"


So I guess racism still exists all over the world.

 

[krish44]

K saheb
We tambrahm liberals can shed some tears for for poor NBs from salem and such places who have flooded delhi and living in resettlement colonies.

The women from these families are domestic helps , men are in menial jobs as drivers, lift men, office staff earning 5-7 k a month. their children depend only on DTEA

schools with 85 percent funding of teachers salaries from delhi govt . only 15 percent is met by school as fees etc. tamilnadu govt has funded couple of times in

capital expenditure for school building several decades back when RV in kamaraj time was education minister. however TN politicians have got into management I

think in recent years.the management has deterorated and also the quality of teaching community. since elitist brahmins have walked off from the school , the source

of funding due to their patronage from various business houses and charities has vanished. also they organised cultural shows to get extra funding for capital

expenditure. now the school buildings are run down. paints are peeling , furniture is broken not fit for use and no one cares.

the alumni of various batches meets and spend money on themselves and talk of good old days . they talk of deteriorating standards and do nothing much to help

as the brahmin elite has moved away from it.the schools can go only downhill as they have no benefactors. so this is what integration of brahmins and non brahmin really means.

it is now a school for poor brahmins[economic sense] and non brahmin slum kids. the academic results are dismal.

the objective of the school was quality education for brahmins in delhi in their mother tongue tamil. It has failed to feed the needs of brahmin community in terms of quality of education



Due to deteriorating standards , most brahmin middle and higher class have opted for other schools maintaining better standards. only brahmin kids do not get exposed to

tamil language writing or reading. some speaking tamil they pick up in their own homes from their parents

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Tamilians - Bs or non-bs are unique and at the same time are broad-minded. We have unknowingly and unwittingly helped others without bias. And that is why we are looked down upon. People have unreliable opinions about non-tamils and any discussion on that will spoil things. Tamils and to some extent Telugus adapt themselves any where. But the same cannot be said of others. The shining and glittering example is Kalyan Jewellers.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear krish,

i would prefer not to label ourselves as liberals or conservatives or anything inbetween. just plain humans with some sense of fairness, even though as a result of which, it might adversely affect our interests.

i would consider you a like minded human, and i am enriched by the same. thank you.