• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Whydo we have more gods

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

kr subramanian

0
LEARNED GENTLEMEN-
We are having more number of Gods than in any part of the world. I have been thinking why so much God for us for our upliftment. Recently I read an article of Chathurvarnam wherein it is mentioned as Brahmin (duty-pooja worhsip etc) Kshethriya (duty-to fight and save country) Vysya (duty-business and earn money) and Sudra (duty to do labour work) are the four types . If we take entire world we can see that in some part of the world Like africa etc people are more physically strengthened and able to do labour work with their stamina. Whereas in some countries like Amrica.Russia where they are able to do business (from petrol to rocket) and other parts of the world are dependent on them for survival. Whereas in part of the world like Isrel or Japan where people are having more energy to fight and also are having more national spirit. Hence I feel that God had taken our entire world as one and implemented Chathurvarnam. We mistook them the sameand began to create caste in between us.

Also for an interview from lower post to next grade one or two supervisors will do Whereas for higher posts more trainers are required and more examinations to get passed. Hence we are having more Gods Hence in other part of workd only messengers are there and god in our country . Your comments please
 
kr subramanian said:
LEARNED GENTLEMEN-
We are having more number of Gods than in any part of the world. I have been thinking why so much God for us for our upliftment. Recently I read an article of Chathurvarnam wherein it is mentioned as Brahmin (duty-pooja worhsip etc) Kshethriya (duty-to fight and save country) Vysya (duty-business and earn money) and Sudra (duty to do labour work) are the four types . If we take entire world we can see that in some part of the world Like africa etc people are more physically strengthened and able to do labour work with their stamina. Whereas in some countries like Amrica.Russia where they are able to do business (from petrol to rocket) and other parts of the world are dependent on them for survival. Whereas in part of the world like Isrel or Japan where people are having more energy to fight and also are having more national spirit. Hence I feel that God had taken our entire world as one and implemented Chathurvarnam. We mistook them the sameand began to create caste in between us.

Also for an interview from lower post to next grade one or two supervisors will do Whereas for higher posts more trainers are required and more examinations to get passed. Hence we are having more Gods Hence in other part of workd only messengers are there and god in our country . Your comments please
Click to expand...

Mr. Subramanian,
Please do a search of TB site for the query before you post. This question has been asked before.

The Vedas exclaim from time immemorial, Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanti, Existence is One, Sages call it by different Names Rig Veda, 1-164-146. God, Brahman, Allah, Isvara, Jehovah, Ahuramazda, etc., are one. I offer my worship to that Supreme Being the One eternal homogeneous essence, indivisible mass of bliss and intelligence whom sages describe in a variety of ways through diversity of intellect.
 
Both suki sivam and sri sri Muralidhar swamiji have once mentioned that we have to trust one god and do pooja to him. But I feel it is not practically possible. If that is so How I can celebrate all the festivals in a year (Ganesh chadurthi, varalkshimi viradham, deepavali, etc.) May be we can be upasagar of one god but we cannot leave the other gods.
 
kr subramanian said:
the point iwantg tostress was that more gods are here onlybecause allindians are brahmins and hence to upgrade usthere are more gods.
Click to expand...

Mr. Subramanian,
I am not trying to offend you, but what is your true identity?
You are not a Hindu, because you make preposterous statement about "all Indians".
And obviously you have no concept of God.
 
Why do we have more gods?

Precisely because " yaepyanya devathaa bhakthaaha yajanthey shraddhayaanvithaaha, taepi maamaeva kaunteya yajantyavidhi poorvakam"


prasad1 said:
Mr. Subramanian,
I am not trying to offend you, but what is your true identity?
You are not a Hindu, because you make preposterous statement about "all Indians".
And obviously you have no concept of God.
Click to expand...
 
It is a mis-conception that we have "more gods". Let me tell you on the assumption that the so called "Hinduism" is the oldest. Christianity and Islam came much later. When the enlightened or their disciples came to India they found or came to know here people are praying too to some one or some many. Yet, they started establishing their own beliefs as if we have had not enough. And lot of people fell for new gods. More gods are the same god and his manifestations have been perceived in many forms in different times. If one goes to the basic of Hinduism one will find only one god, origin-less, endless, formless and not conceptualised to compel to believe in Him or Her or It or anything. "Sarva Deva Namaskarah keshavam pratigachchati". This "Keshavam" is not the god of Vaishnavites alone, nor of others. This "Keshava" is Shiva, Muruga, Ganpaty, Bhagwati, Kali, Bhavani, Paarvathy, Vaishnodevi, and so on. There are many saints preaching spiritualism and hence 'more gods' are likely to 'surface'. Because Hinduism is a dynamic system to sustain the spirit of God. Eeshwara, Allah, Thero Naam, subko sunmathi dhe Bhagwan....Sachin Tendulkar is supposed as God, Kushboo for one, Amitabh Bhachchan, Ambedkar,..... God is One and the One will manifest every where as He Wills.
 
DEAR SIR, i do not knowwhy manyh get offended when questioned? Let me tell you that treat me as a humanbeing -? When in christian or muslim (other major religions) only messengers are there only inHinduisam we have god? This in my idea is to upgrade we people in this part of country . Iam of the opinion that this concept of all indian are brahmins does only to stress the point that moksha canbe attained for indians as we are supported /guided by Gods more than in any other part of the world. The chaturvarnam whichis for whole workd is mistook byus tothe subcontinent of India alone.
dear vasuchek can you explainwhat you meant by the sloka you mentioned?
 
kr subramanian said:
the point iwantg tostress was that more gods are here onlybecause allindians are brahmins and hence to upgrade usthere are more gods.
Click to expand...


Dear Mr. krs:

Will you kindly inform the members here about your basic qualifications?Because of the way you ask questions, an impression occurs that you have basically self-coached yourself or learned it from a person of non-Hindu background. Your clarification would help some of us decide the level at which our replies can help you to clearly understand our answers to your question. In fact, Mr.Prasad's response above is similar to what passes through my mind also. If you really want to be helped, you have to describe your background and present career status.
We know you are from Thrissur, Kerala.
 
Last edited:
Dear KR Subramaniam ji,

I really find it hard to divide the world into Caturvarna continents/subcontinents/countries.
Sattva,Rajas and Tamas individuals can be found in any country/race/religion.

Even in a family of three children each child can have Sattva/Rajas/Tamas Guna in varying proportions.
Not everyone will be the carbon copy of one another.
Even identical twins can be as different as night and day in terms of their individual Gunas.

I also dont see the need to "upgrade" everyone in India to Brahminhood.
Is it really needed?
The purpose of religion and self realization is to discard any bodily identification and not add on anything more than what we are already born in.
 
Last edited:
Dear KR Subramaniam ji,

This is the Shloka which was mentioned by Vasuchak Ji in his post.
Its from the Bhagavad Gita:


ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktāyajante śraddhayānvitāḥte 'pi māmevakaunteyayajanty avidhi-pūrvakam

SYNONYMS​
ye — those who; api — also; anya — of other; devatā — gods; bhaktāḥ — devotees; yajante — worship; śraddhayāanvitāḥ — with faith; te — they; api — also; mām — Me; eva — only; kaunteya — O son of Kuntī; yajanti — they worship; avidhi-pūrvakam — ina wrong way.

TRANSLATION​
Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.



http://vedabase.net/bg/9/23/

 
Last edited:
renuka said:
Dear KR Subramaniam ji,

This is the Shloka which was mentioned by Vasuchak Ji in his post.
Its from the Bhagavad Gita:


ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktāyajante śraddhayānvitāḥte 'pi māmevakaunteyayajanty avidhi-pūrvakam

SYNONYMS​
ye — those who; api — also; anya — of other; devatā — gods; bhaktāḥ — devotees; yajante — worship; śraddhayāanvitāḥ — with faith; te — they; api — also; mām — Me; eva — only; kaunteya — O son of Kuntī; yajanti — they worship; avidhi-pūrvakam — ina wrong way.

TRANSLATION​
Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.



Bhagavad-gita As It Is Chapter 9 Verse 23
Click to expand...
avidhi-pūrvakam — has been translated by Bhaktivedanta Swamy as “in a wrong way”.
But Sri Sankaracharya translates it as “not according to prescribed rules”, which according to the prevailing standards of those days, would have meant “not according to Vedic injunctions”
IMHO, using the phrase “wrong way” goes against the grain of the Gita.

 
Last edited:
Naina_Marbus said:
avidhi-pūrvakam — has been translated by Bhaktivedanta Swamy as “in a wrong way”.
But Sri Sankaracharya translates it as “not according to prescribed rules”, which according to the prevailing standards of those days, would have meant “not according to Vedic injunctions”
IMHO, using the phrase “wrong way” goes against the grain of the Gita.
Click to expand...

Take a look at this:

Bhagavad-Gita: Chapter 9, Verse 23
 
dear renukaji
My point was that those in India do have more opportunity for upgradation than in other part of the country. we neednot divide ourself in chathurvarna in this holy land of bharath. I doagree that the gunas vary individual to individual. but the scope is more here in bharath than in any other part of world.
regarding the question of others please treat me as a lay man
 
kr subramanian said:
dear renukaji
My point was that those in India do have more opportunity for upgradation than in other part of the country. we neednot divide ourself in chathurvarna in this holy land of bharath. I doagree that the gunas vary individual to individual. but the scope is more here in bharath than in any other part of world.
regarding the question of others please treat me as a lay man
Click to expand...

Dear sir,

To a certain extent I have to agree with you cos Avatars and sages have walked Bharath but I feel each individual in this world has taken birth to work out his/her own Karma.

Sir even if we do not divide everyone in this nation into Caturvarna and just have only one varna still there will be classes.

I will give you an example:

See Obesity is a medical condition and can be divided into Class I,Class II and Class III obesity.
So we humans will surely find someway to classify ourselves yet again.

Thats why I dont give Varna much importance and thought and rather spend my time thinking how to improve my understanding of God and Religion.

Believe me sir..humans can only be united when we have an Alien from outer space attack us.
Till then we are as different as our finger prints.
 
Believe me sir..humans can only be united when we have an Alien from outer space attack us.
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Humans may not be united even under such circumstances. In fact, such circumstances would show more of the ugly face of human behaviours. To save their own skins, even if it is only for few minutes longer, humans would not hesitate to put others in risk. Remember, it just takes one person to betray 100s of his/her clan.
 
kr subramanian said:
dear renukaji
My point was that those in India do have more opportunity for upgradation than in other part of the country. we neednot divide ourself in chathurvarna in this holy land of bharath. I doagree that the gunas vary individual to individual. but the scope is more here in bharath than in any other part of world.
regarding the question of others please treat me as a lay man
Click to expand...

I do agree with your point of view Shri kr subramanian...

The Karma concepts belongs to Hinduism of Bharath, that is applicable to all Hindus, in fact to the whole lot of Human species. Bharath is a PunyaBhoomi & KarmBhoomi, the folks of which were been guided by many of the God's incarnations and sages. From North to South and from East to West of Bharath we have many Divya Deshams, JothiLingams and many temples of Gods and Goddesses that all have relevancy with many epic stories, depicting incarnations and the messages for the humans, to guide them fulfilling their Karma.

The sense of moral goodness and righteousness alone can help we humans to work our Karma to the best of our honesty and refine our soul towards purification so as to work towards liberation.

These values are highly instilled in this Karma Bhoomi of Bharath and there exists high spirituality and the premises to perform them with all our Bhakthi and Shraddah. These spiritual premises in Bharath keeps reminding us the values of virtues and the need to perform penance in true spirit. Guides us and helps us to be calm, at piece, in unity and in harmony with the sense of humility, humanity, Love and compassion within the borders and across the Globe.

So many Gods and Goddesses; so many legendary epics with powerful messages for human kind; so many mantras, slokas and Vedic systems of performing spirituality. So many are the ways and means to tap the positive vibrations and experience the joy of mesmerizing spirituality.

A complete and complex pack of Spiritual Wisdom that stimulates the complex Karma of the complex humans.

Bharath is a place of complex diversity in all the aspects of God's creation that has inbuilt concept called Hinduism and strongly emphasis on Unity in Diversity on this Earth of human survival.


जननी जन्मभूमिश्च स्वर्गादपि गरीयसी

Janani JanmaBhoomischa SwargAdhapi GarEEyasI

- Mother and motherland are superior to Heaven

This is what Lord Rama told to his brother Lakshmana after killing Ravana and handed over the captured Golden Kingdom of Lanka to Vibhishana, stating, even this Gold Lanka does not appeal to him.

MERA BHARATH MAHAAN

 
Raghy said:
I doubt it. Humans may not be united even under such circumstances. In fact, such circumstances would show more of the ugly face of human behaviours. To save their own skins, even if it is only for few minutes longer, humans would not hesitate to put others in risk. Remember, it just takes one person to betray 100s of his/her clan.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right..the Etthapans!!!
 
kr subramanian said:
dear renukaji
My point was that those in India do have more opportunity for upgradation than in other part of the country. we neednot divide ourself in chathurvarna in this holy land of bharath. I doagree that the gunas vary individual to individual. but the scope is more here in bharath than in any other part of world.
regarding the question of others please treat me as a lay man
Click to expand...

Sri. Kr Subramanian, Greetings.

I went through your messages and the OP in this thread. I am afraid, I disagree with the views expressed. To start with, multiple gods itself is an illusion. There can be just only one personal god. At the time of distress a person possibly would think of just one god which is his/her personal god. Just imagine a person, who had not practised swimming ( everyone knows how to swim, only not everyone practices that) at the verge of drowning... he/she would have just one cry for help; he/she would just pray to one god to help. That is the personal god. (But then, there are persons who don't think of god when drowning).

Your mentioning upgradation and chatur varnyam is quite confusing. Nobody needs upgrading in the varnas. Any god should be decent enough to consider every human being equal irrespective of the varna ( either by birth or by practice). Let us say, I am a thief. Let us say, I lived as a thief all my life, kept my career restricted to only stealing from selected rich persons. Possibly I may not have any conscience pricking. I don't think god would treat me as a bad person when I die.

My personal views are quite different when it comes to karma and all the otther philosophies. Most philosophies are subject to interpretations. So, when you say there are more opportunities in India for upgradation, it doesn't make much sense.

I could be an Inuit ( Eskimo) who eats raw fish meat or I could be orthodox, kind hearted brahmin with organic vegetarian only diet.... it doesn't matter where I live, what I do for living, there is a basic quality for every human being. That is the default quality. Guna of each person depends upon that default quality.

Such default qualities can't be changed that easily. Every person should identify their default quality first. That is the self enquiry. If doesn't change whether that person lives in Thiru Allikkeni Agraharam or amoung cannibal tribes in Papau New Guinea.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
kr subramanian said:
dear renukaji
My point was that those in India do have more opportunity for upgradation than in other part of the country.
Click to expand...

Shri kr subramanian,

You are right with your above observation..

We do have the concept of up gradation. Not necessarily in our present birth BUT in due course of our birth and rebirth, depending on how possibly we could get relieved from the clutches of our Karma.

We in Bharath with concept of Hinduism- believe, understand and accept that ALL ARE ONE for the Supreme Brahman and each human should be mindful of refining one self and never to resist/hinder others in their refining process, by our words and actions in disguise of advocating practicality, rationality and supremacy, while doing things differently for our self.

We, in Bharath, with multiple spiritual concepts, in identifying and attempting to align with multiple cosmic psychos, are symbolizing and projecting multiple spiritual energies in specific forms and worship them to keep ours self positively energized, to acknowledge and to show our reverence to them.

We as Hindus can believe in and accept the above vivid verities of spirituality, that has its origin in this KarmaBhoomi of Bharath, either dwelling in Bharath or elsewhere.

All that matters is what we can accept, honor, value and follow, irrespective of where we were born (like PIO's) or irrespective of where we dwell (NRI's). As well irrespective of where a person became the son of the soil, other than Bharath.

The KarmaBhoomi of Bharath is a ground-zero of spirituality, taping the spiritual energies of vivid cosmic psychos, that helps humans to work towards self inquiry effectively, with less possible ambiguities (as much one could attain capabilities), considering one self and the whole creation of Brahman, that includes this whole land of survival and the potent cosmic spiritual realities and energies. Considering all that we can consider with this time and space constraints, that we could be familiar with.

For God all are one without any prejudice and preferences. We as righteous Man or a Criminal Man need to refine our self, undergoing the process of birth and rebirth and paying off the Karma. Got to get rid of the clutches of Karma and try to be relieved once for all to get dissolved with cosmos.

God/Spirituality is a undiscriminating guide to every one irrespective of humans actions. The responsibility is on us to bear the fruits of our karma, to nullify our karma, to attain absolute self realization and attain liberation

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest ads

Follow us on Social Media

Back
Top