Should we accept our daughter's love marriage proposal?

[rckappu]

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Om namo Narayanaya.
9/9/2023.
Dear friend,
हरिः ॐ। नमो नमः। शुभमड्गलम् प्राप्तिरस्तु -
is my wishes and suggestions too. Hopefully, you can conceive what I wish to suggest. Anyways, please spare your valuable time and try to read my reply message with an open heart and mind till the end, more as a father of affectionately brought up daughter and not as a person with certain inhibitions that can be compromised for the happiness. Okay.
I am not saying this casually. I am a Sri-vaishnava Tamiz speaking Iyengar brahmin practicing and teaching Sanskrit and Veda-vedanta preachings, besides modern technology & engineering subjects to the needy and youngsters resp. However, being a distinction and merit holder of three PGs in academics & a retired professional R&D Scientist from the Department of Atomic Energy and having experienced the same puzzle in my family, I can understand your agony, as a father, due to the practices being followed for ages in your family and at the same time the unshakeable decision taken regarding a groom by your elder daughter for her self. Yes, it's indeed inexplicable pain to say 'YES, go ahead to her' immediately for her decision to wed a groom practicing different culture then yours. One main thing you have to think and decide.
Being a Sanskrit and Veda teacher and your's as well as my roots and family culture are from Vedas for ages, I shall start with a Sanskrit sloka related to the issue raised. It is:
"Brahma-daivastathaivarsah, prajapatya-statha 'surah, Gandharva raksasascaiva, Paisavastamah smrtah"- Manusmruti, 3.22.
In Veda-puranas, Dharma sastra and major smritis, like Manusmriti, as said above, the 8-marriage forms are: viz. Brahma, Daiva, Arsa, Prajapatya, Asura, Gandharva, Raksasa and Paisasa, which are acceptable since (vedic-) times immemorial. In this case, it is of "Gandharva Type", like Sakuntala & Dushyanta, i.e. LOVE marriage. So, the sastra it self says that,"if a healthy kanya likes a healthy var / male and vice-versa" then it is parents Dharma to accept it and let (may have say: 'get') them married. So, an adult, matured (physiologically and mentally) girl can marry in Gandharva or Svyamvsra way. In reality, the rule as per dharmasastra is that a girl must be married before she attains puberty, "pradanam prak rtah". It's a crime as per present day marriage acts to get any girl get married before 18 years completion and obviously all girls by 18 are matured. This implies, we are not ...
Now, let me say as an affectionate father, not as a ritualistic or dharmik: what a parent wants in Kaliyuga? His affectionate daughter should be happy at her in-law's place and kept affectionately by the groom, like or more than him and his wife. As a father, he can not even visualise, forget seeing, a drop of tear rolling from his daughter's eyes any time in her in-law's house, especially because of the groom. This emotional suspense (again for the girl's benefit and favour only) only prevents any parent of any Varna to get their girl married to other Varna or an unknown same Varna groom too, selection of a groom by the girl herself, without the knowledge or consent of parents and elders who brought her up and made a woman. Ofcourse, all arranged are not successful and all unarranged marriages (love marriages & intercaste / inter religion) are failures. In case of any mishap between the couple, in arranged marriages, a suffering girl cry along with parents and in love marriages, she has to cry alone. But, my self being a Vedic astrologer too, of late, over a decade plus, surptisingly, I am seeing these days, even in arranged marriage couples hardly a few cross 5 out of 10 inter-compatibility needs. So, as said in Vedic scriptures, marriages are made in heaven and no one can marry other's girl or boy. Its destined. We parents, at the most can sanctify the relation, liked or not liked, and bless the couple for a happy and prosperous wedded life. Accept the groom wholeheartedly and concede to the request of your beloved daughter for her happiness sake, because your happiness is her happiness. Else all destined, as per individuals purvajanma karma. Accepting your grown up mentally competent daughter's selection is the best option to make your beloved daughter happy the day she is leaving your house for the new one. As Veda, if one girl likes whole heartedly a man, she gets married automatically. As per our Veda, the divine marriage is for once only in a girl's life time. The girl is said to be others wealth, to be given one day the other. Father or parent remains a care taker of others wealth. This is what the great Sri-vaishnava Acharya Periazwar said with emotional attachment and pain when his only daughter Aandal- Lakshmi was to be given to Lord Vishnu, knowing well the groom is none other than whom he pray day in and day out. That is parental maaya. Since a father gives away his heart (daughter) to the one whom she likes (shall start liking), her gotra changes the day kanyadhanam (the supreme of supreme dhanams, but not to be misunderstood or mis interpreted by feminists differently) is done by the father. Ultimately, I would say it's your and your wife's decision to say yes or no, agree or not to agree to get her married, which ever way you both, your daughter and groom likes. Dear friend, we can understand your agony and paradox, but as a third party, no one can decide for you. Ifs and buts are known to you well. So, think twice and decide, so that you nor your daughter regret. Once decided think it's destiny. The family God,you pray truly, always give you the needed intellect to show the best path and it will be always good. Even in the case of wedding of Parvataraja princess Parvati with Lord Shiva (totally rejected by Parvataraja), any third person, including lord Vishnu or Brahma, could not decide and marriage of Parvati with Shiva has taken place and it was totally successful. To conclude, though being a rigid rituals following person who has sailed in the same boat as yours, I, opting yo be more as a father of my beloved, intellectual, worldly wise, matured and highly qualified daughter, trusted wholeheartedly my daughter's selection and praying lord Narayana to bless her and her groom the best in their life said Okay and I did the kanyadhansm as per my family culture and tradition followed by their tradition too making the event more enjoyable & memorable. The base of my decision and yielding to her desire was not only my emotional attachment to my daughter but her decisive saying to the boy (which I came to know and also confirmed by my daughter personally) that "I cannot marry you, let the hell fall on me, unless my father will not do the kanyadhanam willingly and happily with his own hands, the way he desires the wedding to be done for me". Finally, it's emotion and mutual trust (parent with children, and var with vadhu) matters more these days then the rigid ritual thinking. As on date, I can vouch with an open heart in the name of my Lord Narayana, we (my self, my wife and my family) would not have got any better son-in-law than the one selected and married by my able and dearest daughter, even if we would have searched for decades with microscopic eyes and telescopic vision in my own clan and culture. I am proud to say to day, after a decade plus years of their wedding, that he is not just my son-in-law but my own eldest, most affectionate and most beloved, eldest son. I feel, I am blessed for enlightening decisive power given by my family God.
Hopefully, I feel, I could convey (,not suggest) what you expected from us as a third party well wishers! If you go ahead with her marriage with the groom she preferred then Subhashyasheegram. Please do not forget to send me a wedding Shubhapatrika (not a card or an invitation), so that I can bless her remotely and pray the almighty to bless them the best. If not, wish you all the best to get a groom of your as well as your daughter's choice at the earliest.
Remember one thing in life: Getting defeated or surrendering to your own spouse and grown up children, especially daughters and grand children gives so much of happiness at older age than self winning everything everytime in a family. It's a divine bliss to be locked by grand kids and is a supreme blessing by the almighty to any human. Please enjoy the life long pleasure of winning in loosing (- may be said as self ego or living artificially for any third party mouths, at times including relatives these days) to your own flesh and blood, the affectionate children, who are going to carry the torch of your attitude and culture further for the progeny. Love has succeeded all the time and won many social and ritualistic hidden wars.
May lord Narayana bless every one, especially you and your wife, your daughter, to decide correctly and select the successful path and lead a happy and prosperous life forever. Thanks for reading my lengthy message. Please pardon me for the unsolicited or inadvertent opinions and/or remarks or even suggestions at places and in certain context. बहवः धन्यवादाः। सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः। सर्वेषां जयं भवतु!
शुभं भूयात्!
Your well wishing friend,
श्री-श्रीरामानुजाचार्यस्य दासः,
वासुदेवः राजगोपालः अय्यड्गारः
(Vasudevan Rajagopalan Iyengar)
Bangalore.

Ananthakoti namaskarams for the valuable and wonderful explanation and the comfort that has been intended by these words.

 

[tbs]

Om namo Narayanaya.
9/9/2023.
Dear friend,
हरिः ॐ। नमो नमः। शुभमड्गलम् प्राप्तिरस्तु -
is my wishes and suggestions too. Hopefully, you can conceive what I wish to suggest. Anyways, please spare your valuable time and try to read my reply message with an open heart and mind till the end, more as a father of affectionately brought up daughter and not as a person with certain inhibitions that can be compromised for the happiness. Okay.
I am not saying this casually. I am a Sri-vaishnava Tamiz speaking Iyengar brahmin practicing and teaching Sanskrit and Veda-vedanta preachings, besides modern technology & engineering subjects to the needy and youngsters resp. However, being a distinction and merit holder of three PGs in academics & a retired professional R&D Scientist from the Department of Atomic Energy and having experienced the same puzzle in my family, I can understand your agony, as a father, due to the practices being followed for ages in your family and at the same time the unshakeable decision taken regarding a groom by your elder daughter for her self. Yes, it's indeed inexplicable pain to say 'YES, go ahead to her' immediately for her decision to wed a groom practicing different culture then yours. One main thing you have to think and decide.
Being a Sanskrit and Veda teacher and your's as well as my roots and family culture are from Vedas for ages, I shall start with a Sanskrit sloka related to the issue raised. It is:
"Brahma-daivastathaivarsah, prajapatya-statha 'surah, Gandharva raksasascaiva, Paisavastamah smrtah"- Manusmruti, 3.22.
In Veda-puranas, Dharma sastra and major smritis, like Manusmriti, as said above, the 8-marriage forms are: viz. Brahma, Daiva, Arsa, Prajapatya, Asura, Gandharva, Raksasa and Paisasa, which are acceptable since (vedic-) times immemorial. In this case, it is of "Gandharva Type", like Sakuntala & Dushyanta, i.e. LOVE marriage. So, the sastra it self says that,"if a healthy kanya likes a healthy var / male and vice-versa" then it is parents Dharma to accept it and let (may have say: 'get') them married. So, an adult, matured (physiologically and mentally) girl can marry in Gandharva or Svyamvsra way. In reality, the rule as per dharmasastra is that a girl must be married before she attains puberty, "pradanam prak rtah". It's a crime as per present day marriage acts to get any girl get married before 18 years completion and obviously all girls by 18 are matured. This implies, we are not ...
Now, let me say as an affectionate father, not as a ritualistic or dharmik: what a parent wants in Kaliyuga? His affectionate daughter should be happy at her in-law's place and kept affectionately by the groom, like or more than him and his wife. As a father, he can not even visualise, forget seeing, a drop of tear rolling from his daughter's eyes any time in her in-law's house, especially because of the groom. This emotional suspense (again for the girl's benefit and favour only) only prevents any parent of any Varna to get their girl married to other Varna or an unknown same Varna groom too, selection of a groom by the girl herself, without the knowledge or consent of parents and elders who brought her up and made a woman. Ofcourse, all arranged are not successful and all unarranged marriages (love marriages & intercaste / inter religion) are failures. In case of any mishap between the couple, in arranged marriages, a suffering girl cry along with parents and in love marriages, she has to cry alone. But, my self being a Vedic astrologer too, of late, over a decade plus, surptisingly, I am seeing these days, even in arranged marriage couples hardly a few cross 5 out of 10 inter-compatibility needs. So, as said in Vedic scriptures, marriages are made in heaven and no one can marry other's girl or boy. Its destined. We parents, at the most can sanctify the relation, liked or not liked, and bless the couple for a happy and prosperous wedded life. Accept the groom wholeheartedly and concede to the request of your beloved daughter for her happiness sake, because your happiness is her happiness. Else all destined, as per individuals purvajanma karma. Accepting your grown up mentally competent daughter's selection is the best option to make your beloved daughter happy the day she is leaving your house for the new one. As Veda, if one girl likes whole heartedly a man, she gets married automatically. As per our Veda, the divine marriage is for once only in a girl's life time. The girl is said to be others wealth, to be given one day the other. Father or parent remains a care taker of others wealth. This is what the great Sri-vaishnava Acharya Periazwar said with emotional attachment and pain when his only daughter Aandal- Lakshmi was to be given to Lord Vishnu, knowing well the groom is none other than whom he pray day in and day out. That is parental maaya. Since a father gives away his heart (daughter) to the one whom she likes (shall start liking), her gotra changes the day kanyadhanam (the supreme of supreme dhanams, but not to be misunderstood or mis interpreted by feminists differently) is done by the father. Ultimately, I would say it's your and your wife's decision to say yes or no, agree or not to agree to get her married, which ever way you both, your daughter and groom likes. Dear friend, we can understand your agony and paradox, but as a third party, no one can decide for you. Ifs and buts are known to you well. So, think twice and decide, so that you nor your daughter regret. Once decided think it's destiny. The family God,you pray truly, always give you the needed intellect to show the best path and it will be always good. Even in the case of wedding of Parvataraja princess Parvati with Lord Shiva (totally rejected by Parvataraja), any third person, including lord Vishnu or Brahma, could not decide and marriage of Parvati with Shiva has taken place and it was totally successful. To conclude, though being a rigid rituals following person who has sailed in the same boat as yours, I, opting yo be more as a father of my beloved, intellectual, worldly wise, matured and highly qualified daughter, trusted wholeheartedly my daughter's selection and praying lord Narayana to bless her and her groom the best in their life said Okay and I did the kanyadhansm as per my family culture and tradition followed by their tradition too making the event more enjoyable & memorable. The base of my decision and yielding to her desire was not only my emotional attachment to my daughter but her decisive saying to the boy (which I came to know and also confirmed by my daughter personally) that "I cannot marry you, let the hell fall on me, unless my father will not do the kanyadhanam willingly and happily with his own hands, the way he desires the wedding to be done for me". Finally, it's emotion and mutual trust (parent with children, and var with vadhu) matters more these days then the rigid ritual thinking. As on date, I can vouch with an open heart in the name of my Lord Narayana, we (my self, my wife and my family) would not have got any better son-in-law than the one selected and married by my able and dearest daughter, even if we would have searched for decades with microscopic eyes and telescopic vision in my own clan and culture. I am proud to say to day, after a decade plus years of their wedding, that he is not just my son-in-law but my own eldest, most affectionate and most beloved, eldest son. I feel, I am blessed for enlightening decisive power given by my family God.
Hopefully, I feel, I could convey (,not suggest) what you expected from us as a third party well wishers! If you go ahead with her marriage with the groom she preferred then Subhashyasheegram. Please do not forget to send me a wedding Shubhapatrika (not a card or an invitation), so that I can bless her remotely and pray the almighty to bless them the best. If not, wish you all the best to get a groom of your as well as your daughter's choice at the earliest.
Remember one thing in life: Getting defeated or surrendering to your own spouse and grown up children, especially daughters and grand children gives so much of happiness at older age than self winning everything everytime in a family. It's a divine bliss to be locked by grand kids and is a supreme blessing by the almighty to any human. Please enjoy the life long pleasure of winning in loosing (- may be said as self ego or living artificially for any third party mouths, at times including relatives these days) to your own flesh and blood, the affectionate children, who are going to carry the torch of your attitude and culture further for the progeny. Love has succeeded all the time and won many social and ritualistic hidden wars.
May lord Narayana bless every one, especially you and your wife, your daughter, to decide correctly and select the successful path and lead a happy and prosperous life forever. Thanks for reading my lengthy message. Please pardon me for the unsolicited or inadvertent opinions and/or remarks or even suggestions at places and in certain context. बहवः धन्यवादाः। सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः। सर्वेषां जयं भवतु!
शुभं भूयात्!
Your well wishing friend,
श्री-श्रीरामानुजाचार्यस्य दासः,
वासुदेवः राजगोपालः अय्यड्गारः
(Vasudevan Rajagopalan Iyengar)
Bangalore.

hi sir

i agreed the reality.......i did kanyadhanam too.... im a veda patashala and sanskrit student too.....but if

we want happiness of our children....someimes we have follow them in the oldage....we dont want

mess up their life for the sake of our happiness....like it or not....

 

[vrajagopalan57]

Dear Sir,
I have no words to describe how beautiful your post is.
It addressed every aspect of the situation from tradition to ground reality.
Regards

Om namo Narayanaya.
Please accept my NamaskaraH if you are elder to me (I am 66+) or younger along with AshirwadaH if you are younger to me. Immensely thankful to you and Ms or Mrs or Mr TBS for compliments and agreeing with my frank expression on such critical and emotional issues within a family. As of now, G20+1 interpersonal and economic meet has started. Vasudeva kutumbham implies we are all linked to one Paramatma (I am not saying God or Vishnu or Shiva or Brahma or even Allah or Jesus or any reverable representation of faith & belief) but a Supreme infinite positive energy, addressed in Veda as Savitu- adorable glory of supreme positive energy (Sun) and Savitri. These two form a couple, like day & night, light and dark, etc that we can not deny. We should question why a ritual or tradition or culture has been made mandatory and to be strictly followed? The essence is least understood in reality by the pseudo followers that these are the basis for a civilized, harmonious and happy living and co-existence, sharing one's strength with the other and not to encash or redicule one's weakness. The Veda says by birth no one can claim to be Brahman but everyone is a Shudra only. With kriya-karma/deeds one becomes Brahman or Kshatriya or Vaishya or continue to be Shudra. All are born from supreme Brahma only, so all have same father, so siblings only. There is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation or misguidance by poorly read (Veda) persons who made their own list of supreme, medium, average and lower Varna, since Brahmans are born from the Head of Brahma, Kshatriya from his shoulder, vaishya from his thighs and shudras from his padau (legs). The originating component is very true, as described in Veda-puranas-Smritis, but interpretation and the list of supreme to lower is totally WRONG (again elaborately said in the scriptures). Sons and daughters born out of Head implies who have *strong* brain (learning, remembering and dissemination of acquired knowledge to every one) but relatively weak shoulders, thighs and legs; persons born with strong Shoulders are Kshatriyas (who can take care of the resources, give security and care for overall health and welfare of every one), strong thighs are Vaisyas (those who can sit at one place for a long time without getting distracted or bored and take care of finance and other natural resources to be optimally distributed to everyone, especially food grains, other sundry items for day to day living), and those who have strong legs, who can move from one to other place with least tiredness and carry forward and deliver the produces of Brahman, Kshatriya, Vysyas and shudras as well for the benefit of civilized harmonious sustenance. So, how one can say x is higher or lower than y. Simple example, if there is no earth digger or blacksmiths to make tools to dig wells there won't be pure water to quench thirst of living being (we all creations including trees, animals, insects, birds and human are same in the eyes of creator and taken the form as per our purvajanma Karma/deeds) and they cannot sustain. If there is farmer, no grain to quench our hunger. One can say I have animals to eat. Okay. How long? If they perish, human being will perish automatically but not vice-versa. Forest, animals, all other creations excluding human can survive without human (who in fact is the true Yama to them) but human can not get even oxygen without others. So, in nut shell, as a research scientist as well as a Brahmin, Veda teacher & preacher, with due humility and humble pranamaH, request one and all through this adorable web site/divine group having the name of Brahman in it, representing the head of Lord Brahma, let us do our assigned duty as per our strength to acquire (not retain for self glory and name or fame) knowledge through different Vedic books and our life experiences and disseminate the same totally to those who have stronger shoulders, stronger thighs and most important component of body, stronger legs. Without the limbs, shoulder and abdomen the head becomes meaningless. Let us understand, learn and try to understand the truths spelled in our Vedas and bring in harmony among 'Heads' and synchronise other parts of the body given as a single meaningful biological unit for the only creation called Human with 6th sense. My Paramacharyas said that limbs do hurt the head but the head should never reject or disown or discard the limbs for its mistakes, yes it (Head) can not injure physically any other part of the body too. So, let us not be divided amongst our selves, instead unite to disseminate the best for the India to rejuvenate the value based rich Akanda Bharath. Let the ignorants say or do whatever they want, the "Head's" job is not to take revenge or reciprocate as the ignorants do. It is said that the revenge is an animal instinct and excuse is divine. It's difficult to follow but not impossible. The truth will sustain and win, may be little late because it's Kaliyugam. Let us accept all but NEVER leave your Dharma. I used to say in my spiritual and Vedic lectures that if I remain true to my consciousness and decide not to thieve then one thief is less in this world. Charity begins at home and everyone in this divine blessed group are intellectuals. So, try your level best to prove that you are representing a component of lord Brahma and not otherwise. In reality, I am a total agyani- an ignorant, who has not understood yet 'Who Am I?'
So, please pardon me for my expressions and opinions. What all I have expressed is my academics, professional experiences and above all my own emotional and spiritual experiences. Nothing is good or nothing is bad, nothing is true nor nothing is false.
One's food is other's poision. Since we are born in other's pain, we have to suffer in our own. That is niyati and that is karma-dharma. DhanyadaH.
Sarvesham jayam bhavatu. Sarve bhavatu sukhinah. Shubhamastu. With regards,
V.Rajagopalan Iyengar, Bangalore

 

[vrajagopalan57]

hi sir

i agreed the reality.......i did kanyadhanam too.... im a veda patashala and sanskrit student too.....but if

we want happiness of our children....someimes we have follow them in the oldage....we dont want

mess up their life for the sake of our happiness....like it or not....

Dear friend,
Namo namah. I appreciate your will power to face the crisis, liked or disliked, and resolve it amicably in the interest of happiness to the crucial one or both involved. You and many in the group may be aware that the maiden true social reformer of Bharatam was vishishtadvaita ShriRamanujacharya and it is only the Vaishnavism where one can find Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vysya as well as the Shudras as Azhwars, who are totally accepted and revered over 1000 years as representative of Lord Narayana. His Thirukoshtiyur announcement from the temple top when his guru was rigid that whoever (first to fourth Varna people) recite three times the moola mantra of Vaishnavism, "Om Namo Narayana", and take a oath to strictly follow the sanatana Dharma can become a Vaishava. Even great adishankarachrya of advaitam never preached that any individual should be rejected because of his birth in any of the 4-varnas. Everyone knows that when he was around Varanasi lord Shiva gave him Darshan after Shankaracharya bowed down his head with reverence to a chandala (the 4th Varna). So, let us not forget our duties as a Brahman nor try to become another Varna person blaming the rigid rituals for an easy going life and facilities and to get a perishing name and fame as a revolutionist. Values are more important and surrendering oneself for any Varna is only to the supreme almighty and not to individuals or any materialistic maya. Try to get happiness by making everyone around you happy, ofcourse nothing should go against Dharma, the self consciousness. Regards. Jai Shri Ram. VR

 

[renuka]

Om namo Narayanaya.
Please accept my NamaskaraH if you are elder to me (I am 66+) or younger along with AshirwadaH if you are younger to me. Immensely thankful to you and Ms or Mrs or Mr TBS for compliments and agreeing with my frank expression on such critical and emotional issues within a family. As of now, G20+1 interpersonal and economic meet has started. Vasudeva kutumbham implies we are all linked to one Paramatma (I am not saying God or Vishnu or Shiva or Brahma or even Allah or Jesus or any reverable representation of faith & belief) but a Supreme infinite positive energy, addressed in Veda as Savitu- adorable glory of supreme positive energy (Sun) and Savitri. These two form a couple, like day & night, light and dark, etc that we can not deny. We should question why a ritual or tradition or culture has been made mandatory and to be strictly followed? The essence is least understood in reality by the pseudo followers that these are the basis for a civilized, harmonious and happy living and co-existence, sharing one's strength with the other and not to encash or redicule one's weakness. The Veda says by birth no one can claim to be Brahman but everyone is a Shudra only. With kriya-karma/deeds one becomes Brahman or Kshatriya or Vaishya or continue to be Shudra. All are born from supreme Brahma only, so all have same father, so siblings only. There is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation or misguidance by poorly read (Veda) persons who made their own list of supreme, medium, average and lower Varna, since Brahmans are born from the Head of Brahma, Kshatriya from his shoulder, vaishya from his thighs and shudras from his padau (legs). The originating component is very true, as described in Veda-puranas-Smritis, but interpretation and the list of supreme to lower is totally WRONG (again elaborately said in the scriptures). Sons and daughters born out of Head implies who have *strong* brain (learning, remembering and dissemination of acquired knowledge to every one) but relatively weak shoulders, thighs and legs; persons born with strong Shoulders are Kshatriyas (who can take care of the resources, give security and care for overall health and welfare of every one), strong thighs are Vaisyas (those who can sit at one place for a long time without getting distracted or bored and take care of finance and other natural resources to be optimally distributed to everyone, especially food grains, other sundry items for day to day living), and those who have strong legs, who can move from one to other place with least tiredness and carry forward and deliver the produces of Brahman, Kshatriya, Vysyas and shudras as well for the benefit of civilized harmonious sustenance. So, how one can say x is higher or lower than y. Simple example, if there is no earth digger or blacksmiths to make tools to dig wells there won't be pure water to quench thirst of living being (we all creations including trees, animals, insects, birds and human are same in the eyes of creator and taken the form as per our purvajanma Karma/deeds) and they cannot sustain. If there is farmer, no grain to quench our hunger. One can say I have animals to eat. Okay. How long? If they perish, human being will perish automatically but not vice-versa. Forest, animals, all other creations excluding human can survive without human (who in fact is the true Yama to them) but human can not get even oxygen without others. So, in nut shell, as a research scientist as well as a Brahmin, Veda teacher & preacher, with due humility and humble pranamaH, request one and all through this adorable web site/divine group having the name of Brahman in it, representing the head of Lord Brahma, let us do our assigned duty as per our strength to acquire (not retain for self glory and name or fame) knowledge through different Vedic books and our life experiences and disseminate the same totally to those who have stronger shoulders, stronger thighs and most important component of body, stronger legs. Without the limbs, shoulder and abdomen the head becomes meaningless. Let us understand, learn and try to understand the truths spelled in our Vedas and bring in harmony among 'Heads' and synchronise other parts of the body given as a single meaningful biological unit for the only creation called Human with 6th sense. My Paramacharyas said that limbs do hurt the head but the head should never reject or disown or discard the limbs for its mistakes, yes it (Head) can not injure physically any other part of the body too. So, let us not be divided amongst our selves, instead unite to disseminate the best for the India to rejuvenate the value based rich Akanda Bharath. Let the ignorants say or do whatever they want, the "Head's" job is not to take revenge or reciprocate as the ignorants do. It is said that the revenge is an animal instinct and excuse is divine. It's difficult to follow but not impossible. The truth will sustain and win, may be little late because it's Kaliyugam. Let us accept all but NEVER leave your Dharma. I used to say in my spiritual and Vedic lectures that if I remain true to my consciousness and decide not to thieve then one thief is less in this world. Charity begins at home and everyone in this divine blessed group are intellectuals. So, try your level best to prove that you are representing a component of lord Brahma and not otherwise. In reality, I am a total agyani- an ignorant, who has not understood yet 'Who Am I?'
So, please pardon me for my expressions and opinions. What all I have expressed is my academics, professional experiences and above all my own emotional and spiritual experiences. Nothing is good or nothing is bad, nothing is true nor nothing is false.
One's food is other's poision. Since we are born in other's pain, we have to suffer in our own. That is niyati and that is karma-dharma. DhanyadaH.
Sarvesham jayam bhavatu. Sarve bhavatu sukhinah. Shubhamastu. With regards,
V.Rajagopalan Iyengar, Bangalore

Dear Sir,
Pranams to you.
I usually am quite able to write responses to posts but honestly I am speechless reading your posts.
Please kindly participate more in Forum and share your wisdom with everyone here.

Regards.

 

[mrk616]

Om namo Narayanaya.
9/9/2023.
Dear friend,
हरिः ॐ। नमो नमः। शुभमड्गलम् प्राप्तिरस्तु -
is my wishes and suggestions too. Hopefully, you can conceive what I wish to suggest. Anyways, please spare your valuable time and try to read my reply message with an open heart and mind till the end, more as a father of affectionately brought up daughter and not as a person with certain inhibitions that can be compromised for the happiness. Okay.
I am not saying this casually. I am a Sri-vaishnava Tamiz speaking Iyengar brahmin practicing and teaching Sanskrit and Veda-vedanta preachings, besides modern technology & engineering subjects to the needy and youngsters resp. However, being a distinction and merit holder of three PGs in academics & a retired professional R&D Scientist from the Department of Atomic Energy and having experienced the same puzzle in my family, I can understand your agony, as a father, due to the practices being followed for ages in your family and at the same time the unshakeable decision taken regarding a groom by your elder daughter for her self. Yes, it's indeed inexplicable pain to say 'YES, go ahead to her' immediately for her decision to wed a groom practicing different culture then yours. One main thing you have to think and decide.
Being a Sanskrit and Veda teacher and your's as well as my roots and family culture are from Vedas for ages, I shall start with a Sanskrit sloka related to the issue raised. It is:
"Brahma-daivastathaivarsah, prajapatya-statha 'surah, Gandharva raksasascaiva, Paisavastamah smrtah"- Manusmruti, 3.22.
In Veda-puranas, Dharma sastra and major smritis, like Manusmriti, as said above, the 8-marriage forms are: viz. Brahma, Daiva, Arsa, Prajapatya, Asura, Gandharva, Raksasa and Paisasa, which are acceptable since (vedic-) times immemorial. In this case, it is of "Gandharva Type", like Sakuntala & Dushyanta, i.e. LOVE marriage. So, the sastra it self says that,"if a healthy kanya likes a healthy var / male and vice-versa" then it is parents Dharma to accept it and let (may have say: 'get') them married. So, an adult, matured (physiologically and mentally) girl can marry in Gandharva or Svyamvsra way. In reality, the rule as per dharmasastra is that a girl must be married before she attains puberty, "pradanam prak rtah". It's a crime as per present day marriage acts to get any girl get married before 18 years completion and obviously all girls by 18 are matured. This implies, we are not ...
Now, let me say as an affectionate father, not as a ritualistic or dharmik: what a parent wants in Kaliyuga? His affectionate daughter should be happy at her in-law's place and kept affectionately by the groom, like or more than him and his wife. As a father, he can not even visualise, forget seeing, a drop of tear rolling from his daughter's eyes any time in her in-law's house, especially because of the groom. This emotional suspense (again for the girl's benefit and favour only) only prevents any parent of any Varna to get their girl married to other Varna or an unknown same Varna groom too, selection of a groom by the girl herself, without the knowledge or consent of parents and elders who brought her up and made a woman. Ofcourse, all arranged are not successful and all unarranged marriages (love marriages & intercaste / inter religion) are failures. In case of any mishap between the couple, in arranged marriages, a suffering girl cry along with parents and in love marriages, she has to cry alone. But, my self being a Vedic astrologer too, of late, over a decade plus, surptisingly, I am seeing these days, even in arranged marriage couples hardly a few cross 5 out of 10 inter-compatibility needs. So, as said in Vedic scriptures, marriages are made in heaven and no one can marry other's girl or boy. Its destined. We parents, at the most can sanctify the relation, liked or not liked, and bless the couple for a happy and prosperous wedded life. Accept the groom wholeheartedly and concede to the request of your beloved daughter for her happiness sake, because your happiness is her happiness. Else all destined, as per individuals purvajanma karma. Accepting your grown up mentally competent daughter's selection is the best option to make your beloved daughter happy the day she is leaving your house for the new one. As Veda, if one girl likes whole heartedly a man, she gets married automatically. As per our Veda, the divine marriage is for once only in a girl's life time. The girl is said to be others wealth, to be given one day the other. Father or parent remains a care taker of others wealth. This is what the great Sri-vaishnava Acharya Periazwar said with emotional attachment and pain when his only daughter Aandal- Lakshmi was to be given to Lord Vishnu, knowing well the groom is none other than whom he pray day in and day out. That is parental maaya. Since a father gives away his heart (daughter) to the one whom she likes (shall start liking), her gotra changes the day kanyadhanam (the supreme of supreme dhanams, but not to be misunderstood or mis interpreted by feminists differently) is done by the father. Ultimately, I would say it's your and your wife's decision to say yes or no, agree or not to agree to get her married, which ever way you both, your daughter and groom likes. Dear friend, we can understand your agony and paradox, but as a third party, no one can decide for you. Ifs and buts are known to you well. So, think twice and decide, so that you nor your daughter regret. Once decided think it's destiny. The family God,you pray truly, always give you the needed intellect to show the best path and it will be always good. Even in the case of wedding of Parvataraja princess Parvati with Lord Shiva (totally rejected by Parvataraja), any third person, including lord Vishnu or Brahma, could not decide and marriage of Parvati with Shiva has taken place and it was totally successful. To conclude, though being a rigid rituals following person who has sailed in the same boat as yours, I, opting yo be more as a father of my beloved, intellectual, worldly wise, matured and highly qualified daughter, trusted wholeheartedly my daughter's selection and praying lord Narayana to bless her and her groom the best in their life said Okay and I did the kanyadhansm as per my family culture and tradition followed by their tradition too making the event more enjoyable & memorable. The base of my decision and yielding to her desire was not only my emotional attachment to my daughter but her decisive saying to the boy (which I came to know and also confirmed by my daughter personally) that "I cannot marry you, let the hell fall on me, unless my father will not do the kanyadhanam willingly and happily with his own hands, the way he desires the wedding to be done for me". Finally, it's emotion and mutual trust (parent with children, and var with vadhu) matters more these days then the rigid ritual thinking. As on date, I can vouch with an open heart in the name of my Lord Narayana, we (my self, my wife and my family) would not have got any better son-in-law than the one selected and married by my able and dearest daughter, even if we would have searched for decades with microscopic eyes and telescopic vision in my own clan and culture. I am proud to say to day, after a decade plus years of their wedding, that he is not just my son-in-law but my own eldest, most affectionate and most beloved, eldest son. I feel, I am blessed for enlightening decisive power given by my family God.
Hopefully, I feel, I could convey (,not suggest) what you expected from us as a third party well wishers! If you go ahead with her marriage with the groom she preferred then Subhashyasheegram. Please do not forget to send me a wedding Shubhapatrika (not a card or an invitation), so that I can bless her remotely and pray the almighty to bless them the best. If not, wish you all the best to get a groom of your as well as your daughter's choice at the earliest.
Remember one thing in life: Getting defeated or surrendering to your own spouse and grown up children, especially daughters and grand children gives so much of happiness at older age than self winning everything everytime in a family. It's a divine bliss to be locked by grand kids and is a supreme blessing by the almighty to any human. Please enjoy the life long pleasure of winning in loosing (- may be said as self ego or living artificially for any third party mouths, at times including relatives these days) to your own flesh and blood, the affectionate children, who are going to carry the torch of your attitude and culture further for the progeny. Love has succeeded all the time and won many social and ritualistic hidden wars.
May lord Narayana bless every one, especially you and your wife, your daughter, to decide correctly and select the successful path and lead a happy and prosperous life forever. Thanks for reading my lengthy message. Please pardon me for the unsolicited or inadvertent opinions and/or remarks or even suggestions at places and in certain context. बहवः धन्यवादाः। सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः। सर्वेषां जयं भवतु!
शुभं भूयात्!
Your well wishing friend,
श्री-श्रीरामानुजाचार्यस्य दासः,
वासुदेवः राजगोपालः अय्यड्गारः
(Vasudevan Rajagopalan Iyengar)
Bangalore.

sir, what a beautiful reply. thank you. you have brought much comfort to my wife n me. God bless, om shanti.

 

[tbs]

Dear friend,
Namo namah. I appreciate your will power to face the crisis, liked or disliked, and resolve it amicably in the interest of happiness to the crucial one or both involved. You and many in the group may be aware that the maiden true social reformer of Bharatam was vishishtadvaita ShriRamanujacharya and it is only the Vaishnavism where one can find Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vysya as well as the Shudras as Azhwars, who are totally accepted and revered over 1000 years as representative of Lord Narayana. His Thirukoshtiyur announcement from the temple top when his guru was rigid that whoever (first to fourth Varna people) recite three times the moola mantra of Vaishnavism, "Om Namo Narayana", and take a oath to strictly follow the sanatana Dharma can become a Vaishava. Even great adishankarachrya of advaitam never preached that any individual should be rejected because of his birth in any of the 4-varnas. Everyone knows that when he was around Varanasi lord Shiva gave him Darshan after Shankaracharya bowed down his head with reverence to a chandala (the 4th Varna). So, let us not forget our duties as a Brahman nor try to become another Varna person blaming the rigid rituals for an easy going life and facilities and to get a perishing name and fame as a revolutionist. Values are more important and surrendering oneself for any Varna is only to the supreme almighty and not to individuals or any materialistic maya. Try to get happiness by making everyone around you happy, ofcourse nothing should go against Dharma, the self consciousness. Regards. Jai Shri Ram. VR

hi
namaskarams....i already gone through these kind of crisis.....first of alll....i born brahmin vedic family....

i joined INDIAN ARMY and served kargil war against my family values as KASHATRIYA DHARMA...

next moved to USA and doing 4th varna duties sometimes....my daughter married to christian boy....

like it or not.....im doing the duties as much as possible as lord Krishna said in bhagavad gita..

KARMANEYAVADHIKARASTE MAA PAHLESHU KADACHANA....i meant for it....

 

[Krishnan.vp]

Although I find VRajagopalan's post agreeable.. I am invariably drawn to Harshita's example of the muslim woman marrying a muslim man who earns only 15k..

Although the eye-watering explanations are good and touching.. Did the parents ever try to get the girl married as soon as she attained 18?? Even to a lesser earning male varan.. The lesser earning male varan is key here with almost all brahmin girls parents not seeing the point in this and they postpone their daughters marriage till she cannot hold it anymore and goes after someone on the streets. Then out cum the tear jerking dialogues..

Sorry for being rude. But I am the person who had initially suggested you try to get your daughter to see some male profiles on matrimony sites since she is your baby.. previously in this thread.. And I am the same person saying the above too. I think it would be good to stand and take a slap to the face when you deserve it.. instead of shedding croc tears..

 

[Rudra_Maha]

@Harshita Pandey a piece of advice: Refrain from saying the bare truth like this. Most people can’t take it. Unfortunately even the Brahmins who are supposed to stand by the shastras are confused and running around like headless chickens. And importantly, let’s support people in our neighbourhoods to get married within the community, we can’t help the elites, they’ll only do as they please and out of guilt try to appropriate the scriptures to mollify their guilt. Another one, pls stop advising the tambrahmns, they are perhaps the most clueless set of folks I’ve ever seen. No sense of community, religion or awareness, highly atomised people who thinks world operates as per their understanding of values, barring a very few. No wonder they’re being ridiculed in their own state. They can barely stand their ground in their home state. I too was once very enthusiastic and giving free help, but later realised the folly. Let them screw themselves up, instead of focusing on them, let’s help the underprivileged in our own communities and neighbourhood. That is only what we can do to preserve Dharma

 

[sravna]

Dear Sir,

Something as important as marriage should be done case by case. The individual personality of the person is of highest importance. There are great American and scoundrel Brahmins. So take your time and more importantly let your daughter take the time to know the boy and his mind and then decide. The rest is of utmost 20 percent importance.

The ideal qualities of the boy should be good ethics, courage and compassion.

 

[DrBhavani Chandrasekharan]

We too were in the same situation 16 years back when our daughter,brought up totally in a Tamil Brahmin background,unexpectedly pointed out a non Brahmin boy whom she wished to marry.Thoroughly upset,my husband totally denied her wish.She said specifically that she would marry him only if blessed wholeheartedly by her parents,brother and sister in law,and of course by elders in his family.Two years passed by ,giving us enough time to analyse the boy and his people .My daughter got a promise from him to be a teetotaller and follow vegetarianism which was not difficult for him as he was,and is that way till date.We got angry when his people asked for her ‘Kundalini’ after everything was decided but they said it’s for deciding any ‘pariharams’ needed .Whatever it was,he is now a second son to us.We could have chosen a super specialist doctor to be her groom as we wished but cannot say if he would have been a better choice.

 

[SridharRamki]

We are in the USA. My eldest daughter, 28 years, has found a love with an interesting background. His grandmother is Iyer, father half-brahmin, and mother is non-religious American. Son was raised American, is ok adjusting to Brahmin customs and profession and otherwise a good match for my daughter. He is aware of Brahmin lifestyle and customs through extended family. We are not liking some of his family and their values. Boy eats nonveg but wants to adjust and not cook/bring nonveg in the house. Can/Is the Groom considered Brahmin because of his mixed ancestry and can we perform a Brahmin wedding? We are unsure how to approach this circumstance.

Our cultures must be maintained whether in India or abroad and when face such hurdles and if you are interested and trust on Indian cultures you must convince your daughter to drop the proposal and go for our traditional marriage system and plenty of good habit boys are available in US also. This is my stand and diluting to your daughter's love will spoil our tradition without fail.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

Easy to say when you do not know ... Hindus themselves are only 1% in USA ... in India it is fine to advice since many Indian Hindus are anti-Brahmin. Here our struggle is maintaining Hinduism and Hindu culture.We have shown daughter grooms for past years. Boy n his family is willing to undergo poonal ceremony and raise kids with Brahmin values. Just because one is not born Brahmin does not mean they cannot become Brahmin or have Brahmin values. Mahabharata and ancient Vedic texts says varna is determined by ones personal quality and mindset. You guys are all following British caste system which says caste is only based on birth order -- that is what will lead to extinction of Brahmins, like what is happening to Parsis. If you want to live orthodox that is fine and your personal choice but it is not a smart one when u leave India.

It is not impotency. It is belief in our culture that has survived multiple invasions and has existed since the beginning of time. We have raised our children with good values we know will pass on even when they decide to marry out of our community, because we have raised strong women with strong love for their values and culture. My daughter is cardio surgeon who volunteers at kovil, does pooja every morning, goes to ashram every year, and teaches carnatic music weekly and has fundraisers for kovils -- n u r telling me my daughter has no values?

What is sad is you sitting in India lecturing with no idea what culture or society is here. We wish my daughter will have accepted Brahmin groom. But we have faith she will make a decision best for herself and our family, and the boy has accepted and is willing to convert into our samapradaya completely so upon reflection any opposition is only based in ego.

Thx for everyone's advice. Peace and Om Shanti.

If one is not born Brahmin, he can't become a Brahmin! Vishwamitra was the finest example of this kind of case in ancient India.
There are good qualified Brahmin mens in India, if u really want to save ur daughter. Anyway! Most tamil brahmins marry outside their community n they will vanish soon so please go ahead for ur daughter's marriage n please don't go around distributing the sacred thread(janeu) to everyone.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

@Harshita Pandey a piece of advice: Refrain from saying the bare truth like this. Most people can’t take it. Unfortunately even the Brahmins who are supposed to stand by the shastras are confused and running around like headless chickens. And importantly, let’s support people in our neighbourhoods to get married within the community, we can’t help the elites, they’ll only do as they please and out of guilt try to appropriate the scriptures to mollify their guilt. Another one, pls stop advising the tambrahmns, they are perhaps the most clueless set of folks I’ve ever seen. No sense of community, religion or awareness, highly atomised people who thinks world operates as per their understanding of values, barring a very few. No wonder they’re being ridiculed in their own state. They can barely stand their ground in their home state. I too was once very enthusiastic and giving free help, but later realised the folly. Let them screw themselves up, instead of focusing on them, let’s help the underprivileged in our own communities and neighbourhood. That is only what we can do to preserve Dharma

Just see them defending it n comparing themselves to devtas n what not.
This community is scared and they don't even know that they r scared, they r happy that their girls r allowing them to do their kanyadan (literally bare minimum). I m scared Brahmins across South(Kerala, Andhra ones) will start following them n will vanish soon in the name of modernity n changing with time.
Only a Brahmin women when married to a Brahmin man gives birth to Shankaraachaarya, otherwise chandaals r roaming around everywhere.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

Om namo Narayanaya.
9/9/2023.
Dear friend,
हरिः ॐ। नमो नमः। शुभमड्गलम् प्राप्तिरस्तु -
is my wishes and suggestions too. Hopefully, you can conceive what I wish to suggest. Anyways, please spare your valuable time and try to read my reply message with an open heart and mind till the end, more as a father of affectionately brought up daughter and not as a person with certain inhibitions that can be compromised for the happiness. Okay.
I am not saying this casually. I am a Sri-vaishnava Tamiz speaking Iyengar brahmin practicing and teaching Sanskrit and Veda-vedanta preachings, besides modern technology & engineering subjects to the needy and youngsters resp. However, being a distinction and merit holder of three PGs in academics & a retired professional R&D Scientist from the Department of Atomic Energy and having experienced the same puzzle in my family, I can understand your agony, as a father, due to the practices being followed for ages in your family and at the same time the unshakeable decision taken regarding a groom by your elder daughter for her self. Yes, it's indeed inexplicable pain to say 'YES, go ahead to her' immediately for her decision to wed a groom practicing different culture then yours. One main thing you have to think and decide.
Being a Sanskrit and Veda teacher and your's as well as my roots and family culture are from Vedas for ages, I shall start with a Sanskrit sloka related to the issue raised. It is:
"Brahma-daivastathaivarsah, prajapatya-statha 'surah, Gandharva raksasascaiva, Paisavastamah smrtah"- Manusmruti, 3.22.
In Veda-puranas, Dharma sastra and major smritis, like Manusmriti, as said above, the 8-marriage forms are: viz. Brahma, Daiva, Arsa, Prajapatya, Asura, Gandharva, Raksasa and Paisasa, which are acceptable since (vedic-) times immemorial. In this case, it is of "Gandharva Type", like Sakuntala & Dushyanta, i.e. LOVE marriage. So, the sastra it self says that,"if a healthy kanya likes a healthy var / male and vice-versa" then it is parents Dharma to accept it and let (may have say: 'get') them married. So, an adult, matured (physiologically and mentally) girl can marry in Gandharva or Svyamvsra way. In reality, the rule as per dharmasastra is that a girl must be married before she attains puberty, "pradanam prak rtah". It's a crime as per present day marriage acts to get any girl get married before 18 years completion and obviously all girls by 18 are matured. This implies, we are not ...
Now, let me say as an affectionate father, not as a ritualistic or dharmik: what a parent wants in Kaliyuga? His affectionate daughter should be happy at her in-law's place and kept affectionately by the groom, like or more than him and his wife. As a father, he can not even visualise, forget seeing, a drop of tear rolling from his daughter's eyes any time in her in-law's house, especially because of the groom. This emotional suspense (again for the girl's benefit and favour only) only prevents any parent of any Varna to get their girl married to other Varna or an unknown same Varna groom too, selection of a groom by the girl herself, without the knowledge or consent of parents and elders who brought her up and made a woman. Ofcourse, all arranged are not successful and all unarranged marriages (love marriages & intercaste / inter religion) are failures. In case of any mishap between the couple, in arranged marriages, a suffering girl cry along with parents and in love marriages, she has to cry alone. But, my self being a Vedic astrologer too, of late, over a decade plus, surptisingly, I am seeing these days, even in arranged marriage couples hardly a few cross 5 out of 10 inter-compatibility needs. So, as said in Vedic scriptures, marriages are made in heaven and no one can marry other's girl or boy. Its destined. We parents, at the most can sanctify the relation, liked or not liked, and bless the couple for a happy and prosperous wedded life. Accept the groom wholeheartedly and concede to the request of your beloved daughter for her happiness sake, because your happiness is her happiness. Else all destined, as per individuals purvajanma karma. Accepting your grown up mentally competent daughter's selection is the best option to make your beloved daughter happy the day she is leaving your house for the new one. As Veda, if one girl likes whole heartedly a man, she gets married automatically. As per our Veda, the divine marriage is for once only in a girl's life time. The girl is said to be others wealth, to be given one day the other. Father or parent remains a care taker of others wealth. This is what the great Sri-vaishnava Acharya Periazwar said with emotional attachment and pain when his only daughter Aandal- Lakshmi was to be given to Lord Vishnu, knowing well the groom is none other than whom he pray day in and day out. That is parental maaya. Since a father gives away his heart (daughter) to the one whom she likes (shall start liking), her gotra changes the day kanyadhanam (the supreme of supreme dhanams, but not to be misunderstood or mis interpreted by feminists differently) is done by the father. Ultimately, I would say it's your and your wife's decision to say yes or no, agree or not to agree to get her married, which ever way you both, your daughter and groom likes. Dear friend, we can understand your agony and paradox, but as a third party, no one can decide for you. Ifs and buts are known to you well. So, think twice and decide, so that you nor your daughter regret. Once decided think it's destiny. The family God,you pray truly, always give you the needed intellect to show the best path and it will be always good. Even in the case of wedding of Parvataraja princess Parvati with Lord Shiva (totally rejected by Parvataraja), any third person, including lord Vishnu or Brahma, could not decide and marriage of Parvati with Shiva has taken place and it was totally successful. To conclude, though being a rigid rituals following person who has sailed in the same boat as yours, I, opting yo be more as a father of my beloved, intellectual, worldly wise, matured and highly qualified daughter, trusted wholeheartedly my daughter's selection and praying lord Narayana to bless her and her groom the best in their life said Okay and I did the kanyadhansm as per my family culture and tradition followed by their tradition too making the event more enjoyable & memorable. The base of my decision and yielding to her desire was not only my emotional attachment to my daughter but her decisive saying to the boy (which I came to know and also confirmed by my daughter personally) that "I cannot marry you, let the hell fall on me, unless my father will not do the kanyadhanam willingly and happily with his own hands, the way he desires the wedding to be done for me". Finally, it's emotion and mutual trust (parent with children, and var with vadhu) matters more these days then the rigid ritual thinking. As on date, I can vouch with an open heart in the name of my Lord Narayana, we (my self, my wife and my family) would not have got any better son-in-law than the one selected and married by my able and dearest daughter, even if we would have searched for decades with microscopic eyes and telescopic vision in my own clan and culture. I am proud to say to day, after a decade plus years of their wedding, that he is not just my son-in-law but my own eldest, most affectionate and most beloved, eldest son. I feel, I am blessed for enlightening decisive power given by my family God.
Hopefully, I feel, I could convey (,not suggest) what you expected from us as a third party well wishers! If you go ahead with her marriage with the groom she preferred then Subhashyasheegram. Please do not forget to send me a wedding Shubhapatrika (not a card or an invitation), so that I can bless her remotely and pray the almighty to bless them the best. If not, wish you all the best to get a groom of your as well as your daughter's choice at the earliest.
Remember one thing in life: Getting defeated or surrendering to your own spouse and grown up children, especially daughters and grand children gives so much of happiness at older age than self winning everything everytime in a family. It's a divine bliss to be locked by grand kids and is a supreme blessing by the almighty to any human. Please enjoy the life long pleasure of winning in loosing (- may be said as self ego or living artificially for any third party mouths, at times including relatives these days) to your own flesh and blood, the affectionate children, who are going to carry the torch of your attitude and culture further for the progeny. Love has succeeded all the time and won many social and ritualistic hidden wars.
May lord Narayana bless every one, especially you and your wife, your daughter, to decide correctly and select the successful path and lead a happy and prosperous life forever. Thanks for reading my lengthy message. Please pardon me for the unsolicited or inadvertent opinions and/or remarks or even suggestions at places and in certain context. बहवः धन्यवादाः। सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः। सर्वेषां जयं भवतु!
शुभं भूयात्!
Your well wishing friend,
श्री-श्रीरामानुजाचार्यस्य दासः,
वासुदेवः राजगोपालः अय्यड्गारः
(Vasudevan Rajagopalan Iyengar)
Bangalore.

It's just sad that standards have been set so low that a daughter allowing father to do her kanyadan is enough for a father to not think about the right things.

 

[mrk616]

If one is not born Brahmin, he can't become a Brahmin! Vishwamitra was the finest example of this kind of case in ancient India.
There are good qualified Brahmin mens in India, if u really want to save ur daughter. Anyway! Most tamil brahmins marry outside their community n they will vanish soon so please go ahead for ur daughter's marriage n please don't go around distributing the sacred thread(janeu) to everyone.

Men in the prospective groom's varna wear Janeu. The family is Hindu, and most of the family is Tamil Brahmin.

I understand your fear and appreciate your advice. Hopefully other people reading this will also get some direction. I will pray to our family God to help provide answers to my family, and may God also provide you with answers and direction, and perhaps an open mind to overcome your ego.

 

[mrk616]

Although I find VRajagopalan's post agreeable.. I am invariably drawn to Harshita's example of the muslim woman marrying a muslim man who earns only 15k..

Although the eye-watering explanations are good and touching.. Did the parents ever try to get the girl married as soon as she attained 18?? Even to a lesser earning male varan.. The lesser earning male varan is key here with almost all brahmin girls parents not seeing the point in this and they postpone their daughters marriage till she cannot hold it anymore and goes after someone on the streets. Then out cum the tear jerking dialogues..

Sorry for being rude. But I am the person who had initially suggested you try to get your daughter to see some male profiles on matrimony sites since she is your baby.. previously in this thread.. And I am the same person saying the above too. I think it would be good to stand and take a slap to the face when you deserve it.. instead of shedding croc tears..

No one is shedding croc tears ... we are trying to decide what is the right thing to do. There is no way I would have gotten my daughter married when she was 18. I want her to have the best life and be happy which is why wife and I are cautious. She is my baby, but prospective groom must also meet her needs, otherwise it would just be forced marriage and that is a sin. The issue is she would like to marry someone in the same career as her, and in the same status as her, we have been looking past 5 years and that has been hard to find. Sir, you are assuming parents have all the control in the world when many of our daughters have their own needs to be happy and are independent now.

 

[Rudra_Maha]

Just see them defending it n comparing themselves to devtas n what not.
This community is scared and they don't even know that they r scared, they r happy that their girls r allowing them to do their kanyadan (literally bare minimum). I m scared Brahmins across South(Kerala, Andhra ones) will start following them n will vanish soon in the name of modernity n changing with time.
Only a Brahmin women when married to a Brahmin man gives birth to Shankaraachaarya, otherwise chandaals r roaming around everywhere.

Yes, one reason I figured out why they’re doing that is because, they don’t understand how the outside world functions, they’re too obsessed with their own world. There was an instance in my own distant relative family who was calling priests as beggars, meanwhile his own grandson was leaning vedas and the old fellow was putting status and flaunting it to us. When I addressed his grandson as an American beggar, he got offended and blocked me. He still doesn’t want to engage although I’ve told him about his own hypocrisy and no other malafide intention

Another case: most people are scared as you said, they view their own children as Super Kids. They’re happy if the kid calls them and speak to them for 2 mins. Such is the dynamics within most families. When families are surviving by such a fine thread, what can we expect about the community or larger spheres. Worst argument is: the previous gen which the new 20s kid call as Boomers, are a selfish lot. Even within the family when a distant cousin was marrying out, some of us took offence and as expected we became the villains because they said we were against their child’s happiness. Well if happiness if all that mattered, why are they pulling the religion and make a fool of the whole setup which doesn’t authorise them to do it. But no, don’t ask them, else you’ll be ostracised. If we don’t agree to kids marriage, who will look after me in old age, this was put forth by another group of 5-6 parents I spoke to. If this came from the poor section, I could understand, but it came from the flock who had a career and pension. Meanwhile the poor couples literally renounced their life and went to an ashram and Himalayas. That sort of courage or conviction is lost here, they’re weak. Who gives a damn about community or religion or values. What I do is my own values religion can go screw itself. I can only wonder if the old ancestors who literally gave up their life to save religion when the invaders came marauding through the society, they never compromised despite being put to death. But a few gen of sophistication and money has turned us bonkers and weak. If only I had a Time Machine, I’d go back and tell those invaders to throw money at our flock and convince them rather than the sword!!!

I’m not sure if you understand tamil, but an outsiders perspective about us will tell what this community is doing. Listen to what this politician says about the groupto sum it up: they’re only concerned about economic status, if you’re fine economically nothing stops them). Good or bad, this is the common perception of the society outside and it’s upto the community elders to decide for themselves their next course!!!

 

[mrk616]

I am of firm belief we first and foremost as parents have a duty to our flesh and blood... for our children to make sure they are content and taken care of in this life. We believe this will happen if they marry other TB. Others may be concerned about the TB community, but first and foremost as parents, our duty is to our child. When we fail at that then what dharma is left?

My wife and I have two options. Our daughter has said she will not accept boy if we cannot accept and is fine not marrying at all if we cannot find anyone. Like I said, she is 28 nearing 29, we have searched for past 5 years and no one has fit her properly although we have tried to convince her to change standards her expectations on groom remain firm. It is her life -- we cannot do anything. We can refuse and continue looking, but what are the chances she will find a groom she likes before 30 if she has not liked anyone else so far? Then are we robbing her the chance of starting a family, finding a partner, or finding future partner she likes just as much, etc? When the boy has good qualifications, morals, is willing to adjust, what is the price to pay?

The other is to accept and deal with the repurcussions to and from the community. Given we are in US this is much diluted. However there is still a personal pain, especially with eldest and only daughter.

I am not saying this to convince anyone ... but for the naysayers who comment advice without understanding the complexities of parenting in a foreign country and society.... we cannot force our daughter and have her meet groom on mandapam on the day of a wedding ... those times are gone and women have preferences now.

We moved to US bcuz I had a health condition needing life long care and US was best place to live compared to India for this reason ... so let's say this is my Karma...

 

[Harshita Pandey]

Yes, one reason I figured out why they’re doing that is because, they don’t understand how the outside world functions, they’re too obsessed with their own world. There was an instance in my own distant relative family who was calling priests as beggars, meanwhile his own grandson was leaning vedas and the old fellow was putting status and flaunting it to us. When I addressed his grandson as an American beggar, he got offended and blocked me. He still doesn’t want to engage although I’ve told him about his own hypocrisy and no other malafide intention

Another case: most people are scared as you said, they view their own children as Super Kids. They’re happy if the kid calls them and speak to them for 2 mins. Such is the dynamics within most families. When families are surviving by such a fine thread, what can we expect about the community or larger spheres. Worst argument is: the previous gen which the new 20s kid call as Boomers, are a selfish lot. Even within the family when a distant cousin was marrying out, some of us took offence and as expected we became the villains because they said we were against their child’s happiness. Well if happiness if all that mattered, why are they pulling the religion and make a fool of the whole setup which doesn’t authorise them to do it. But no, don’t ask them, else you’ll be ostracised. If we don’t agree to kids marriage, who will look after me in old age, this was put forth by another group of 5-6 parents I spoke to. If this came from the poor section, I could understand, but it came from the flock who had a career and pension. Meanwhile the poor couples literally renounced their life and went to an ashram and Himalayas. That sort of courage or conviction is lost here, they’re weak. Who gives a damn about community or religion or values. What I do is my own values religion can go screw itself. I can only wonder if the old ancestors who literally gave up their life to save religion when the invaders came marauding through the society, they never compromised despite being put to death. But a few gen of sophistication and money has turned us bonkers and weak. If only I had a Time Machine, I’d go back and tell those invaders to throw money at our flock and convince them rather than the sword!!!

I’m not sure if you understand tamil, but an outsiders perspective about us will tell what this community is doing. Listen to what this politician says about the groupto sum it up: they’re only concerned about economic status, if you’re fine economically nothing stops them). Good or bad, this is the common perception of the society outside and it’s upto the community elders to decide for themselves their next course!!!

Actually no! Our ancestors survived poverty and they still upholded janeu, it's the psychological slavery that killed the South Indian Brahmin community. Psychological western slavery of trying to be an Englishman killed the community n the most guilty of all are the priests who evaluate sahastra howsoever they want so that they can get their daughters married to some mallech instead of saving their daughters and teaching them the right thing. Periyar and Ambedkar successfully uprooted varna vyavastha from a lot of regions from India and the result is that cows are being slaughtered in those regions today. Ambedkar wrote in his book, "If you want to finish the brahmins then marry the Brahmin women. Dalits should marry Brahmin women and take them out of their varna. Then Brahmins the micro minority 3 percent population of india will have no women left to marry and breed. They will die a natural death and become extinct". We have become so money driven that we have stopped caring about the stability of the society. I m just scared for the last of Brahmins, the North Indian ones, they need to be protected at all costs. Even though most of their children are staunch when it comes to upholding janeu but even 10% of examples would be enough to pollute the minds of the next generation. Thankfully! Unlike our south indian counterparts, our youth still understands varna vyavastha and the young generation (including me) is aware of these adharmi things which will lead to our downfall.

 

[renuka]

I am of firm belief we first and foremost as parents have a duty to our flesh and blood... for our children to make sure they are content and taken care of in this life. We believe this will happen if they marry other TB. Others may be concerned about the TB community, but first and foremost as parents, our duty is to our child. When we fail at that then what dharma is left?

My wife and I have two options. Our daughter has said she will not accept boy if we cannot accept and is fine not marrying at all if we cannot find anyone. Like I said, she is 28 nearing 29, we have searched for past 5 years and no one has fit her properly although we have tried to convince her to change standards her expectations on groom remain firm. It is her life -- we cannot do anything. We can refuse and continue looking, but what are the chances she will find a groom she likes before 30 if she has not liked anyone else so far? Then are we robbing her the chance of starting a family, finding a partner, or finding future partner she likes just as much, etc? When the boy has good qualifications, morals, is willing to adjust, what is the price to pay?

The other is to accept and deal with the repurcussions to and from the community. Given we are in US this is much diluted. However there is still a personal pain, especially with eldest and only daughter.

I am not saying this to convince anyone ... but for the naysayers who comment advice without understanding the complexities of parenting in a foreign country and society.... we cannot force our daughter and have her meet groom on mandapam on the day of a wedding ... those times are gone and women have preferences now.

We moved to US bcuz I had a health condition needing life long care and US was best place to live compared to India for this reason ... so let's say this is my Karma...

Dear Sir,
Though as humans we would belong to some varna/ religion or the other..but honestly when we face any problem who comes to our rescue?

Does society or varna or community or religion comes to the rescue?
Nope..Adi Shankara clearly said in Bhavani Ashtakam that nothing comes to our rescue except God..Na tato na mata na bandhur na data..na putro na putri etc..gatistvam, gatistvam tvameka Bhavani.

The very people who will talk a lot and ridicule anyone would not help anyone in the time of need.
So why does anyone actually need the opionion of others when its one's own life finally?

It's understandable that your prefer a same varna marriage for your daughter.
For some others they prefer same religion marriage and these days I would be happy if my child marries a person of the opposite gender.
Each one of us have our own requirement.

But the questions we need to ask ourselves is

1)Why do I have a requirement?
Is it for continuation of genetics of a varna or are we just afraid of what others would say?

2)If we want the continuation of genetics of a Varna then the match has to be within the same Varna provided the children agree to it.
If they can be convinced, then fine.
If not..nothing can be done.

3) If we are scared what others will think, then we have to ask ourselves...who am I living for?
Myself or for the world?

4) If we are living for the world then be ready for endless ups and downs..even if the marriage is the same Varna or not there would be issues where society will comment or find fault in something or the other.

5) Last but not least..your stage in life.
Once our children are of a certain age and we have finished our duties, we should be in vanaprashta mode..where we focus on God till our very last moments.
This stage is ours no matter who our children marry.
Dont deprive yourself the bhaghyam of knowing God more when we are older.

If you cant change anything to your liking, then accept it as the Will of God and continue your svadharma and karma.

 

[renuka]

Actually no! Our ancestors survived poverty and they still upholded janeu, it's the psychological slavery that killed the South Indian Brahmin community. Psychological western slavery of trying to be an Englishman killed the community n the most guilty of all are the priests who evaluate sahastra howsoever they want so that they can get their daughters married to some mallech instead of saving their daughters and teaching them the right thing. Periyar and Ambedkar successfully uprooted varna vyavastha from a lot of regions from India and the result is that cows are being slaughtered in those regions today. Ambedkar wrote in his book, "If you want to finish the brahmins then marry the Brahmin women. Dalits should marry Brahmin women and take them out of their varna. Then Brahmins the micro minority 3 percent population of india will have no women left to marry and breed. They will die a natural death and become extinct". We have become so money driven that we have stopped caring about the stability of the society. I m just scared for the last of Brahmins, the North Indian ones, they need to be protected at all costs. Even though most of their children are staunch when it comes to upholding janeu but even 10% of examples would be enough to pollute the minds of the next generation. Thankfully! Unlike our south indian counterparts, our youth still understands varna vyavastha and the young generation (including me) is aware of these adharmi things which will lead to our downfall.

This is surprising.
When I was India long long ago as a student..I found the South Indian Brahmins more adherent to their culture.
The North Indian Brahmins I knew were even eating meat some ate beef too and drank alcohol and none of them knew any mantras.

But the South Indian Brahmins were vegetarians and knew mantras..went to temples regularly.
Sang Bhajans at college temples etc.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

Dear Sir,
Though as humans we would belong to some varna/ religion or the other..but honestly when we face any problem who comes to our rescue?

Does society or varna or community or religion comes to the rescue?
Nope..Adi Shankara clearly said in Bhavani Ashtakam that nothing comes to our rescue except God..Na tato na mata na bandhur na data..na putro na putri etc..gatistvam, gatistvam tvameka Bhavani.

The very people who will talk a lot and ridicule anyone would not help anyone in the time of need.
So why does anyone actually need the opionion of others when its one's own life finally?

It's understandable that your prefer a same varna marriage for your daughter.
For some others they prefer same religion marriage and these days I would be happy if my child marries a person of the opposite gender.
Each one of us have our own requirement.

But the questions we need to ask ourselves is

1)Why do I have a requirement?
Is it for continuation of genetics of a varna or are we just afraid of what others would say?

2)If we want the continuation of genetics of a Varna then the match has to be within the same Varna provided the children agree to it.
If they can be convinced, then fine.
If not..nothing can be done.

3) If we are scared what others will think, then we have to ask ourselves...who am I living for?
Myself or for the world?

4) If we are living for the world then be ready for endless ups and downs..even if the marriage is the same Varna or not there would be issues where society will comment or find fault in something or the other.

5) Last but not least..your stage in life.
Once our children are of a certain age and we have finished our duties, we should be in vanaprashta mode..where we focus on God till our very last moments.
This stage is ours no matter who our children marry.
Dont deprive yourself the bhaghyam of knowing God more when we are older.

If you cant change anything to your liking, then accept it as the Will of God and continue your svadharma and karma.ankaracharya said a lot more about inter

Dear Sir,
Though as humans we would belong to some varna/ religion or the other..but honestly when we face any problem who comes to our rescue?

Does society or varna or community or religion comes to the rescue?
Nope..Adi Shankara clearly said in Bhavani Ashtakam that nothing comes to our rescue except God..Na tato na mata na bandhur na data..na putro na putri etc..gatistvam, gatistvam tvameka Bhavani.

The very people who will talk a lot and ridicule anyone would not help anyone in the time of need.
So why does anyone actually need the opionion of others when its one's own life finally?

It's understandable that your prefer a same varna marriage for your daughter.
For some others they prefer same religion marriage and these days I would be happy if my child marries a person of the opposite gender.
Each one of us have our own requirement.

But the questions we need to ask ourselves is

1)Why do I have a requirement?
Is it for continuation of genetics of a varna or are we just afraid of what others would say?

2)If we want the continuation of genetics of a Varna then the match has to be within the same Varna provided the children agree to it.
If they can be convinced, then fine.
If not..nothing can be done.

3) If we are scared what others will think, then we have to ask ourselves...who am I living for?
Myself or for the world?

4) If we are living for the world then be ready for endless ups and downs..even if the marriage is the same Varna or not there would be issues where society will comment or find fault in something or the other.

5) Last but not least..your stage in life.
Once our children are of a certain age and we have finished our duties, we should be in vanaprashta mode..where we focus on God till our very last moments.
This stage is ours no matter who our children marry.
Dont deprive yourself the bhaghyam of knowing God more when we are older.

If you cant change anything to your liking, then accept it as the Will of God and continue your svadharma and karma.

Shankarachaarya said a lot regarding inter caste marriages also but ofc u would quote selectively.

 

[Harshita Pandey]

This is surprising.
When I was India long long ago as a student..I found the South Indian Brahmins more adherent to their culture.
The North Indian Brahmins I knew were even eating meat some ate beef too and drank alcohol and none of them knew any mantras.

But the South Indian Brahmins were vegetarians and knew mantras..went to temples regularly.
Sang Bhajans at college temples etc.

North India survived mughals, sultanate empire and what not still our people stood strong. Yes! Some North Indian Brahmins drink and some eat meat but beef? Rarely, literally rarely.
We fight, we pick arms if needed while our southern counterparts don't. Being vegetarian n doing kalash n lota things is just a part of being Brahmin n not everything about being a Brahmin.

 

[Krishnan.vp]

This is surprising.
When I was India long long ago as a student..I found the South Indian Brahmins more adherent to their culture.
The North Indian Brahmins I knew were even eating meat some ate beef too and drank alcohol and none of them knew any mantras.

But the South Indian Brahmins were vegetarians and knew mantras..went to temples regularly.
Sang Bhajans at college temples etc.

All that is long gone madam.. hahaha.. .